Feedback On Vulpine Mask Grind And Rapier [Megathread]

[IceColdHawk]

Melee weapons viable in warframe? Are you playing the same game?

Blind mirage + mprime nova + melee chroma. Damage for weeks.

[DxAdder]

I won't buy the bundle, but then again I almost never buy stuff in the marked that I can get by playing the game.

 

I'll do some Tyl Regor runs once in a while.

 

I'll use some transmute cores once in a while.

 

Maybe I'l even pick one up for plat or trade in tradechat once the hysteria settles.

 

I don't need it the first day, week, or even month, so no problem.

 

This ^^^^^^

[DeMonkey]

Melee weapons viable in warframe? Are you playing the same game?

 

Either troll or incredibly new to the game, not sure which.

[FATEdPondera]

I sense perfect world's hand in this....

 

But I can see where you're coming from, OP. I spent some time farming for Atlantis Vulcan, an "uncommon" stance, and after a few thousand grineer kills, I did not see it. So, I broke down and acquired it from trade chat. And Gaia's Tragedy. And Defiled Snapdragon. Is there a reason why these drop from enemies as opposed to a more user friendly option like... having Tesshin train us in the use of the stance in the relay? I think we all know the answer to that.

 

These stances are necessary for the use of a melee weapon, yet acquiring them is like pulling teeth. I hope this is a trend that will be corrected. Soon.

[-CM-Hekovashi]

DE-"Hm, we gonna release a actually decent melee, that was long awaited by our comunity, how we can screw this up, any ideas?"

Dude_that_care_about_you_1-"How about we make nitain or argons as requirement to build"

Dude_that_care_about_you_2-"How bout we make this single one stance drop by awfully rare enemies so there no real possibility to get it by chance?"

Dude_that_care_about_you_3-"Or we can put this stance on marker so ppl who cant wait can get it"

DE-"All of this!!! muahaahah" *taking a shower from salt and plat*

Edited January 14, 2016 by Hekovashi

[dmirtygorachyov]

Either troll or incredibly new to the game, not sure which.

Tonkor is the best melee weapon.

[wypower2]

I am curious of why people would call this game grindy, i played mainly japanese mmorpg before comming to this gamr. It is not uncommon that you need to gather resource for over a month to make a single weapon and also possible to fail the combining part.

And i started in last christmas i already have 70% of the content completed, so i am really confused by all these grindy complains.

[DeMonkey]

Tonkor is the best melee weapon.

 

So troll then, glad we got that sorted.

[wizzquizz]

Glad to know I'm not the only one whose hype was killed by the stance drop rate.

[Synpai]

Those Tyl cutscenes e.e.

[IEpicWolfI]

 So there's a stance pack for 220p?

 

...

 

 I got the base weapon for 175p. Previous new weapons didn't have a stance with them (for some ridiculous reason) now this is suddenly a thing, huh. 

 

 

 Thanks a bunch, DE.

[Xylia]

This is kinda like a double middle finger by DE, you know?

 

They implement Regor and make it so you need SIX blueprints to make his Warframe.

 

Then, a bit later, they decide that a new stance is going to be found on enemies that spawn with Regor in his boss fight.

 

So... not only did players farm Regor for his Warframe and probably killed him 30+ times to do it, but now they're expected to farm Regor some a lot more, just for his minions' drop.

[DeMonkey]

Because the stance has a 0.021% Drop chance.

 

If this thing was about as rare as pointed wind or so nobody wouldve ever given a F***.

 

It's 0.0125%.

Edited January 14, 2016 by DeMonkey

[Uzpian]

So the community needs to create an uproar again to reach DE's ears?

[IceColdHawk]

It's 0.0125%.

Stop destroying people's hopes! xD They were probably on their way to farm it since it's only 0.021% but then when you correct with 0.0125%, nobody is going to bother to farm it!

[Davoodoo]

This is nothing new from what de did.

 

Boss>resource crafted keys>very specific key resources>time limited key resources

 

Quests with timewalls>quests with double timewalls and grind>quests with grind which unlock grind

 

Exclusive items from events>void trader with ducat grind>sorties

 

Resources>rare resources>diluting(actually diluting) drops with clantech>new resource, oxium>tellerium>expirium, argons>alertium, nitain

 

Potatoes>forma>exilus>lens

 

Stance farm>rare enemies dropping stance>rare drops on juggernaut style enemies> next inevitable step is rare drop from stalker type enemies.

 

And like always it will happen until they get a backlash.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Davoodoo

[DeMonkey]

Stop destroying people's hopes! xD They were probably on their way to farm it since it's only 0.021% but then when you correct with 0.0125%, nobody is going to bother to farm it!

 

Hope is cruel.

 

Facts and truth, they don't lie to you like hope does.

So the community needs to create an uproar again to reach DE's ears?

 

At least this time it's a deserved uproar.

[KotoKuraken]

There have been stances I've never seen drop before (Final Harbinger, Vermillion Storm, etc etc) and they've been out for months. Sometimes it's okay for stances to take that long to drop, because most of them belong to a weapon that has extra stances that are common enough to be "good nuff" until they get a better stance.

 

-But this is the ONLY stance for the weapon. Most people don't even use the Redeemer because its stance never shines in the light of day unless its in the glimmer of plat or luck.

 

-Let's look at the chances to drop for the new rapier stance:

.0125% (as stated by numerous other threads)

 

-Let's say you go to Tyl Regor, where 2 Manic Bombards guarantee to spawn.

.025% per mission

 

-Let's say you farm with a Nekros every time

.05% again, per mission for killing 2 manic bombards

 

-With that, you still have to run the mission 2000 times to guarantee a drop

 

-Now let's say it takes about 5 min to complete the Tyl Regor Mission

That's 10k minutes, or about 160 hours (rounding for simplicity)

 

-That's also about an entire week of pure mission time. 

 

-Now obviously we'd need to be somewhat realistic with farming for a hardcore gamer (due to time for sleep, eat, personal stuff), so we'll turn that into a sort of "job" as 8 hour workdays.

If my math is somewhat correct, that would be around 20 full workdays, farming the same mission, over and over and over and over.

 

-And if there's no Nekros, that's a full 40 days, 8 hours a day, 7 days a week of farming the same mission over and over and over and over.

 

Remember, this is the only stance available to the weapon at this time.

 

And no, I'm not willing to spend 20 dollars to buy a plat pack that will only cover the cost of one weapon with one stance, when I could potentially get an entire game on Steam for that same price

[CS0310]

Don't buy the bundle.

 

Don't spend 220 Platinum to get a stance you cannot realistically get without spending platinum, or DE will do it again.

And Again.

And Again.

And Again.

And Again.

And Again.

And Again.

And Again.

[Uzpian]

At least this time it's a deserved uproar.

This one also deserved the uproar it got.

 

*ahem*Viver*ahem*

[LGear]

I also feel like the stance issue is getting out of hand. Every one of the newly introduced mods for new melee weapon types the past few months have been Rare, with the majority of them dropping off not only out of a single enemy, but said enemies are also rather uncommon in and of themselves. Considering that stances are one of the unique features of melee weapons not available on primary or secondary weapons, having their stances hidden behind three different layers of RNG is really annoying.

 

Either introduce new stances for said weapons that are at most of Uncommon rarity, or at least spread the mods so that they appear as drops on more common units so as to give more incentive to hunt down other enemy types as well.

[VentiGlondi]

You know how long it takes to farm 225 plat to buy the set? 1 day, 15 trades, 15 loki systems. Did you know weapons work without a stance? God forbid that some no stance weapons actually combat more fluidly than one with a stance. This is just another trigger on the forums. Happens every patch. 

I'm not sure if you've noticed that DE is making worse and worse decision when it comes to making people buy platinum.

And it's going to keep getting worse as long as people like you try to defend it.

[DiabolusUrsus]

Things like this would be less problematic if DE bothered to flesh out the basic stances enough to be somewhat interesting, but I can't see that happening anytime soon. Oh well. 

 

I would much rather see the stances have no benefit to mod capacity in exchange for being easily accessible. 

[DeMonkey]

 

Math based solely on the Manic Drekar Bombards peeps drop rate since nothing on the wiki as yet indicates that it drops from Drekar Manics.

 

Lets say that it takes 5 minutes for a Tyl Regor run (we both know it's longer than that but whatevs), on average therefore you're fighting a Drekar Manic Bombard every 2.5 minutes. You have to kill on average 8000 of them to get the mod, 8000*2.5 = 20000 minutes of farming one node.

 

20000/60 = 333.3 reoccuring hours.

 

333.3/24 = 14 days.

 

And it's not even a guaranteed drop, you may be there 28 days, you may be there 7.

 

It's just ridiculous.

 

You could however have posted this in one of the other many threads there already are on the subject. Mods will likely stick everything into a megathread anyway and it just makes their life abit easier.

Edited January 14, 2016 by DeMonkey

[Cubewano]

I remember the days during Update 8-10 or so where they would admit fault and they'd admit that they messed something up. But then over the course of, say Update 12-14 or thereabouts, I started noticing that during Devstreams, they would take stupid questions from the community and dance around the "hard" questions that it just seemed to me like they didn't feel like answering the questions that people were REALLY asking. You'd have some kind of silly thing where they would answer something like "Is there going to be a new warframe soon?" instead of "Why do you think we need this much RNG-based grind in Warframe?" or "Do you guys think it is fun to do a mission 100+ times knowing you might never get the item?" or something like that.

 

I miss The Update 8-10 days, back when the game actually rewarded you for your actions, instead of dangling the carrot in front of your face that you probably will never catch unless you manage to roll 50 yahtzees in a row.

Yeah, I was never around for that period of the game but I have heard on and off that DE used to be far more passionate about this game and more optimistic/mesmerized with its possibilities, but now it seems that very wonder has been snuffed out. Warframe has become less of a joy and more of a job to them I suppose, hence all these cruddy additions, the effort is no longer worth the results. As for streams, it does get pretty frustrating how often major topics are danced around now, if even a portion of the community feel strongly for some kind of situation the dev team seems to entirely clam up (and often times at no fault of the person presenting the question, I can't recall all the times i've seen rebecca basically have to drag a response out of the devs, even an entirely arbitrary one) as if they know they're in the wrong. At this point, the only time where I think a player can get a genuine response is, as I noted in an early post, during a Q & A session at one of their conventions, though I'm not sure how regular those are. It's the only chance players have to pose more specific and vital questions, and devs can't really ignore it since they have to respond.

 

But back on topic, yeah the direction of looting (or near everything related) is such a mess now. Instead of seeking balance in loot, or developing a system of progression or rewards that compensates players properly for their time, de has just been mindlessly piling on more and more grind walls and its reaching that point where it's just incredibly sloppy. Unfortunately there's no telling when it'll end, or if it will, I read a post in another thread about this whole wonky stance situation and they reminded me just how little fallout de has to worry about due to any of their choices currently, being as they are the only company with a game of this kind. There's no alternates for them to worry about or compete with, which basically leaves a lot of the development to absolute free reign, because what's the worst that'll happen? Nobody is around to one up them or take their userbase.

 

Just fingers crossed DE sees the wrongs of this way sooner than not, and actually love this game enough still to make the right choices for it as people who want to build a quality game.

 

DE honestly still havent found a middle ground (I can't blame em tho, DE may not admit their faults, but neither do we). 

 

On one end, we have "instant gratification", in which case people will just leave their game cuz they got everything.

On the other end, we have "burn out", in which  case people have farmed too much and grown tired of this S#&$.

Both result in people leaving the game.

 

Hey, maybe it's time to start sending DE ideas on how we can obtain that spot between those 2 ends, cuz DE headquarters looks like they're really struggling.

There has never been a shortage of idea sharing from the community to DE, so if they are ever at a lose for a proper solution it is only because they refuse to listen.