The Vacuum Within: Universal Vacuum Feedback

[Pyus]

2 hours ago, Daggerpaw1 said:

^ As the title says,

Why was a nerf to vacuum even suggested at the dev table? The players have made it very clear that at the least, we wanted vacuum to be a universal

Well now all sentinels suck universally. 

[F8ted]

12 minutes ago, Mak_Gohae said:

No, most people that use Sentinels use Carrier.

And i wasnt talking about resources, my post focuses on combat. People with Carrier do have things that help combat come to them easier than the people that dont.

Actually, arguably this is a moot point. Before the development team rekindled this discussion recently, I avidly opposed the Carrier being considered the best combat option. Numerically speaking, the carrier suffers in many high-level content due to interactions with collecting orbs. It also brings nothing more to the table than a quality of life change that we asked for 3 years ago. Kubrows already had a few outrageously effective abilities in addition to better scaling and reviving, then kavats came along and took min-maxing to a new level. The options are there, people just don't choose to use them. Why? Because people hate the loot system in this game. They choose to use a 12m pickup radius. 

[Magneu]

Mag camping Akkadd with a SySimulor.

Complaining about Vacuum nerf to the point of wanting/is going to quit.

Why am I not surprised?

[F8ted]

15 minutes ago, Ker-Blammo said:

I wonder if people played the game before carrier was released... probably not, it was obviously unplayable then.

I have. This was just as much a topic then as it is now. Carrier was the opiate of the masses. 

[HolyDemon00]

1 minute ago, F8ted said:

 high-level content

Lol what? They exist?

You completely miss the point. People use carrier not for min-maxing, because there's no point to min-maxing now. They use carrier so they can rush through missions as fast as possible without having to pause for energy.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, TaylorsContraction said:

No one knows what's going to happen to carrier. It may very well retain its vacuum mod, yeah DE said something about changing its purpose but DE sais a lot of things and then changes stuff, much like with the current vacuum system that is to come. Everyone is so certain that vacuum [carrier mod] is going to be changed even though nothing of the sort has been mentioned in Steve's post. There's a good chance vacuum [carried mod] will retain its precept and just add additional range on top of the base 5 meters, making it exactly what people want. That certainly would be a win - win. Suddenly everyone who wants their 10-12 meter vacuum has it [through carrier], and those of us who want the QoL of vacuum have it too [just 5 meters]. Unless that is we use a kavat / kubrow.

Hopefully that will be the case. But then, what will happen to the ammo precepts? Do other sentinel have them as well? I'd love to use my Diriga to resupply my ammo pool.

[Racter]

So where are all those dreamers that thought they'd leave Carrier at 12m and give the rest of the sentinels a 5m version? lmao

10/10 it's terrible

[BloodCatalyst]

3 hours ago, siralextraffo said:

Know that, in fact I'm not saying it's an easy change to deal with, for many of us. 

But still, you can see it as a huge nerf to Vacuum(which undoubtedly is), or a huge buff to 5 sentinels. 

I tend to see the latter, especially because we will adapt to a 5mt Vacuum way more than we showed to be able to adapt to play without Vacuum. 

I use sentinels for utility. I don't need them for anything else. If I want offense or defense, I use pets. Which incidentally have better utility in some regards.

[F8ted]

3 minutes ago, HolyDemon00 said:

Lol what? They exist?

You completely miss the point. People use carrier not for min-maxing, because there's no point to min-maxing now. They use carrier so they can rush through missions as fast as possible without having to pause for energy.

Right. That is indeed the choice. People are choosing to have a 12m pickup radius rather than a more powerful character. The root of the problem is the loot system, because no one wants to walk around and pick up an abundance of loot with very little individual value. It's like running up and down the streets in a city picking up pennies to exchange them for guns. Wow it really is. 

[HolyDemon00]

8 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Thing is though that Kavats/Kubrows are already much better than Sentinels in most ways.
They have better precepts.  They deal more damage.  They have a ton more survivability.  All around Kavats/Kubrows are superior to sentinels in every way.

They don't need a buff.  The only thing a buff to them would do is replace Carrier with the majority of people using Smeeta and nothing else.  As it stands giving the vacuum to sentinels only keeps them at least somewhat relevant.

@OP
The nerf is overblown.
Here is what the five meters in game looks like: http://imgur.com/Fmp7pJM
Five meters is plenty of vacuum range for the vast majority of actually playing the game and moving around.  We don't need a 12 meter vacuum for everything.

if 12m doesn't matter, why does DE decide to change it? Heck why didn't they make it 20m if it is as insignificant as you say

Also are you seriously joking with kubrows having more survivabality? Try bringing your kubrows to raid and keep it from dying when it keeps lagging behind and tries to fight enemies by itself. Sentinels on the other hand survive like a boss. Numbers don't matter when the AI is broken

Edited October 5, 2016 by HolyDemon00

[haze777]

Red Veil Demands :   Whole Map Range as a... Compensation for war within.... atleast for a month...  u know ... us standing and loot flying to us... that would make this game so epic.... / a month of epicness

[kaliazane]

I thought point of it all was to have vacumm on pets that can be resurected. Instead, now we can use them on stuff that gets popped by first bombard rocket that hits them. I'll prolly play around with different sentinels for a while, then get tired of having them die all the time and just go back to carrier prime. That ammo thing carrier got aint bad either.

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

2 hours ago, Tora.Prime said:

So much cry only for lose 7m of vacuum... it isn't the end guys

But it does make the game less enjoyable.

Do you know what happens when people find a game not fun anymore? They play a different game.

[Schrodingers_Bodybag]

Well done, I'm glad you took the time to do the math! 

[General_Durandal]

"All sentinels have Vacuum now." Yeah alright, cool.

 

"The Vacuum range is 6m instead of 12m now." Nerfs are never fun.

 

"Vacumm mod for carrier is now Ammo Case" which acts like ammo drum and ammo mutations for any weapon you have equipped"

This sounds more helpful then the vacuum, the ammo mutation and drum mods aren't needed anymore if you bring a carrier.

Carrier might get more use now, which is what you're trying to avoid.

 

"Djinn Gazal Skin" Looks Awesome! but moves stupidly.

Shade's unique skin has it's own animations,

Carrier's unique skin has it's own animations,

Deth Cube's unique skin has it's own animations,

why can't Djinn's unique skin have it's own animations?

 

Why does Djinn get a Scarf!? I've been wanting a scarf for my warframes since forever!

Please bring me scarfs!

Also, the scarf should have a separate color box then part of the body. (seriously it clashes with it'self)

 

Can we have some Gazal Sentinel parts too?

The skin doesn't really go with the parts already here.

 

Gazal Machete should have just been a skin since it's not really an improvement over the machete wraith.

 

Also, Machete and Machete Wraith need buffs please.

 

The Gazal Armor looks really cool.

Wish there was a Gazal Syandan Scarf!!!! Please!

 

Should have just made the Vacuum mod usable with any Sentinel, like how some of the Kubrow mods work.

[tbeest]

regarding

2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

We're starting with Sentinels to have this contained group of content analyzed. We will be keeping a close eye on how all of you feel about the new vacuum as well as looking at metrics to see how the distribution of sentinel usage changes across the community (right now 80% of you use Carrier)! We will share results along the way as a team, as soon as this Friday on Devstream #81! 

http://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/project_variables.shtml

"The independent variable is the one that is changed by the scientist. Why just one? Well, if you changed more than one variable it would be hard to figure out which change is causing what you observe."

regarding the fact other sentinels got buffed and the carrier got nerfed.

Edited October 5, 2016 by tbeest

[Mr._Clean]

Should have carrier just increase ammo count or something, built-in (generic) ammo mutation is REALLY good for a sentinel/companion

[tifanator]

I really, really like the Djinn Gazal skin. I can see what you're saying about the scarf color though, but I don't think it clashes THAT badly. 

The only change I'd make to the armor set is to make the chest piece juuust a little bigger. I was expecting it to be roughly Pakal sized but it's smaller. 

[tifanator]

That's... actually a pretty good point. The introduction of the Djinn skin might swing numbers slightly more in its favor too.

[Senketsu_]

8 minutes ago, General_Durandal said:

"All sentinels have Vacuum now." Yeah alright, cool.

 

"The Vacuum range is 6m instead of 12m now." Nerfs are never fun.

 

"Vacumm mod for carrier is now Ammo Case" which acts like ammo drum and ammo mutations for any weapon you have equipped"

This sounds more helpful then the vacuum, the ammo mutation and drum mods aren't needed anymore if you bring a carrier.

Carrier might get more use now, which is what you're trying to avoid.

 

"Djinn Gazal Skin" Looks Awesome! but moves stupidly.

Shade's unique skin has it's own animations,

Carrier's unique skin has it's own animations,

Deth Cube's unique skin has it's own animations,

why can't Djinn's unique skin have it's own animations?

 

Why does Djinn get a Scarf!? I've been wanting a scarf for my warframes since forever!

Please bring me scarfs!

Also, the scarf should have a separate color box then part of the body. (seriously it clashes with it'self)

 

Can we have some Gazal Sentinel parts too?

The skin doesn't really go with the parts already here.

 

Gazal Machete should have just been a skin since it's not really an improvement over the machete wraith.

 

Also, Machete and Machete Wraith need buffs please.

 

The Gazal Armor looks really cool.

Wish there was a Gazal Syandan Scarf!!!! Please!

 

Should have just made the Vacuum mod usable with any Sentinel, like how some of the Kubrow mods work.

the new mechette has 25 status thats more then any machette

[Temragon]

With the same previous values.

Those who don't want or need the extra range can use Carrier's new precept.

Thank you.

[RagingGrizzly]

Some quality feedback.

We'd be basically at square one again if this happened, and ever after all this, Carrier is still going to be the most used.

 

Edited October 5, 2016 by PUR3K1LL3R

[ObviousLee]

carrier was buffed. enjoy.

[Racter]

3 minutes ago, PUR3K1LL3R said:

Some quality feedback.

We'd be basically at square one again if this happened, and ever after all this, Carrier is still going to be the most used.

 

Because this quality of life feature is preferred over anything by the majority of players. That should have been an obvious sign, and even if it wasn't, there are literally thousands of posts about the issue going back to Carrier's initial release. It's not rocket science, DE is just making a bad play here and it's going over very poorly.

That is not to say Vacuum is the only thing Carrier (Prime) had going for it. Post nerf (and that's what it is, no beating around the bush, this was a straight up nerf to 90% of the player base) I'm still only going to use Carrier Prime. I have removed the garbage new precept they gave it, but I will still only use this sentinel because companions are only about utility to me, and this is the tankiest base to provide that utility.

To be completely honest, if this isn't fixed by the end of next week, I'm giving away all of my in game items and leaving. No sane business person, game dev or not, whether they play the game or not, can look at all this feedback and honestly think they made the right choice.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Racter

[GinKenshin]

I think djinn doesn't have it's animations 'yet' is because it was kind of a rushy release, since many believe vacuum is nerfed, DE needed something quick to ship to lighten things up a bit, so they shipped it too fast