The Vacuum Within: Universal Vacuum Feedback

[Fylas]

1 minute ago, IvoodooI said:

Yea. Extra ammo and a 


UNIVERSAL AMMO MUTATION 

is pretty freaking good when you compare that other sentinels aren't as tanky, or their skills aren't as useful like at all.

except its still buggy and does not link well with regular ammo mutations, and equivalent to level 3 mutations so its o nly good if you have no other ammo mutation mod or absolutely no space for ammo mutation mods, but I do admit that once they figure out to link it up with the regular ammo mutation so the efficiencies stack it will be the new favorite for people that use weapons that eat more ammo then the old wwII hitler saw aka the MG 42 , looking at you there amprex :O! right now it gets overridden by weapon specific ammo mutation mods instead of stacking.

 

Also there's the trend of those new combo weapons that synergize with sentinel abilities to power each other up, like the new kukri like blade that gets more damage everytime djinn uses fatal attraction and makes fatal attraction do more damage everytime you hit someone with it

[Brian_Paone]

2 hours ago, Azrael said:

While this is true, I sincerely hope you aren't going to tell us that making vacuum 12m would be too hard to code. I don't think DE's coding ability has anything to do with this subject.

I didn't say it would be. Obviously it wouldn't have been too hard to code, since it was already in-game.

 

Which means there must be another reason range was reduced, and I just don't think it was punitive on the part of the developer. That makes zero sense.

[Xzorn]

Frame utility via companion is what Sentinels need.

It's the reason Carrier was so used.

Crit Cat was finally a viable option for high level play but then they killed endless missions, Whoops! 

( then again I didn't get the chance to test it, prolly revive it too much to be worth using )

 

[Miser_able]

1 hour ago, Ninja-Gyles said:

It's too late for that, honestly. The moment Carrier was released this was bound to happen eventually, as they were clearly unhappy that over 50℅ of the community nearly exclusively used carrier. If they did go that route, they would never live it down, the community would be crying for blood until it was reimplemented.

Yea no kidding, I was worried about this same exact problem when carrier came out. And I saw it only get worse when carrier prime came out.

[Chipputer]

I'm just sitting here giggling at all these Carrier topics while my trusty Djinn is mesmerizing entire rooms of enemies.

[Troll_Logic]

10 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

1) That's not true.

Of course it is.  You think the majority of the drops will always be away from the player and where he is moving?

Come on now.

10 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

2) 5m sphere is 5m sphere wherever you put it. And if you remember that loot only drops on the floor and take parcour into consideration, it's gonna be even less than 5m on the ground.

 

That's why I pointed out that the spheres aren't static.  That's the point.  The player is moving.  Because the player is moving the area in front and behind the player is covered with the vacuum.

10 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

4) But this is not true. Moving around and jumping makes every meter on the lower half of the vacuum crutial. You can't have enough of it. We need 12m and we need it to work fast.

 

Somewhat.  Let me ask you this "How often does a player kill something in front of him and then jumps 6m over it?  Then, how much is left?"

Again "How often?"

10 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

5) Again not true. On any map with any significant open space - not true. The second you stop using melee weapons to kill everything your statement loses any valid.

 

Nope.  Still valid.  Drops aren't distributed equally around the player like air.  Drops follow the path of destruction and that path of destruction is created by the player. 

[Praxxor]

BTW it's not even 6m because the sentinels levitate above you, and imagine a sphere levitating above you, the range gets shorter near your feet

[VergilDT]

lol we have a way worse version of vacuum on all sentinels now, because most people don't know what use the other sentinels actually have before this bs change(it's apparent by carriers 80% usage). Carrier is now a paperweight. You can literally roll the distance to loot that vacuum now has and only a small portion of players(the new less than month old ones) actually care about every single drop because once you're past mastery 5-6 players are only grabbing the drops they actually need for crafting, everything else accrues over time and is there when you need it. The ammo gimmick that was added is redundant due to ammo mutation mods already existing. On top of that good/decent players can manage their ammo pool to the point of never needing them so why put it on a sentinel that already had a function and then make that function suck and give to everything else when it wasn't necessary. Carrier isn't as useful in, say a spy, as Shade would be. All the sentinels  have their uses, now they all suck at being carrier just as much as carrier now does. Basically DE has trashed carrier and given a needless, useless, ability to the rest.

[Troll_Logic]

10 hours ago, Aerensiniac said:

But at this point you can have 2 picks: Its either the middlefinger towards the playerbase, or complete and utter incompetence.

Come on dude.  Putting vacuum on the other sentinels is either malice or incompetence?

Really?

[DatDarkOne]

Wow, look at all these experienced game designers and developers post their comments about DE.

It's like a deaf person implying that Mariah Carey can't sing.

Maybe some things and choices aren't as easy as they seem.

It's not that I'm defending DE. It's more that I find some of the comments disrespectful.

Edited October 6, 2016 by DatDarkOne
clarification

[UrbanShade]

Not every change. Btw, im not really payed attention to change of cores to endo. Because it was really GOOD change, so topicname arent right. Also, after, they add AWESOME thing. Ayatan stuff. That thing arent too valuable to be actively farmed, but its good to found couple of stars or even sculpture. Im not selling them for plat, not squizing endo out of them, was placed 7 or something like it in Orbiter, but other additional statues just was upgraded and leaved in inventory, as is. That thing arent OP and arent redundant or tedius, when i have notghing to do ingame, like sortie was finished, syndi missions was finished, or new item was fully foramed, i can take anything from my arsenal and go to solo or with friend to hunt that stuff in our own pace. Its not challenging, but its insanely fun, so whole endo and ayatan stuff was awesome change and/or addition to Warframe.

But on topic of Vacuum. Yeah. Range nerf was unneeded. On paper that 6 meteres looks way beter, than its ingame

[(PSN)joshw1400]

Prisma Shade can save your life in LOR

[UrbanShade]

My 500 ammo akstiletto prime (that sometimes was run out of ammo) and 240 Viper (that almost everytime runs out of ammo) is now happy bullethoses with external ammo mutator. So nope, carrier got awesome abillity, he carries ammo for u, converting unused ammo drops to your ammo type, and u not need to waste a slot for ammo mutation to cripple ur damage or QoL (maybe only on dual Grakatas, Glaxion or Kohm that mutator will be not enough, but nothing can be enough to feed Glaxion, and Carriers mutator works with mod card too). But universal vacuum (that damn range)... Another topic.

Edited October 6, 2016 by UrbanShade

[chofranc]

Well, after discuss this topic with others, this are my suggerences for the new vacuum to make it more, i'm not a carrier user since DE tweaks djiin making it more useful in combat than other sentinels.

1. They should increase the universal vacuum from 6 meters to 7 or 8 meters.
2. This new vacuum should work like chesa vacuum that pick up the loot instantly, the chesa vacuum for those that doesn't know how it work, instead of waiting that the loot fly to you, you get it instantly.
3. Fix shade and deathcube that are the two broken sentinels that left.

This update i think that it was worth it since the carrierholics or carrier addicted now can explore the other sentinels that are better than carrier in terms of support(Djiin, Diriga and Wyrm)

Edited October 6, 2016 by chofranc

[VergilDT]

If you used carrier for every mission type, that was the problem, it's not necessary to run with carrier on everything, A spy for example is better run with shade. "free from carrier"? They completely destroyed a useful sentinel and gave a very poor version of it's function to every other sentinel, while giving Carrier a useless, redundant, ammo gimmick and expecting people who use Carrier for the missions he's suited for to be happy about it.

[Slaviar]

50 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

I am arguing that making more bullets != the name carrier.  The name carrier was more appropriate when he carried around your loot.

But it didn't. It sucked up loot, not carried it around.

50 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

A smaller radius makes it worse. Cutting it BY HALF is just crazy. Hell, I would be fine with it if they just gave other sentinels 6m vacuum by default and let carrier keep his 12m one. Without a large range, vacuum serves very little purpose. 

Well, I'll take your word for it.

51 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

They also claim to want to get rid of camping but defense is still a thing too. 

Yup.

51 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Loot gathering was always an issue. I don't  want to spend 5 seconds every two seconds gathering loot. I want to spend my time playing the game instead. This is the same reason that I dislike the photography mini-game and the hacking mini-game (in regards to alarms - I don't mind it for spy or rescue missions). The game is fun because of it's fast pace. It should be playing up that angle and trying to be more like classic shooters like Quake or Serious Sam, instead of trying to slow things down.

Please, stop. I'm not using Carrier so I think I now more about loot gathering than you. It takes few seconds after every engagement to gather loot remaining after mobs. It's usually kill mob->run over its remains->continue. Only exception is if you've just killed big group of mobs, then you spend few more seconds to check all loot. Yeah, I get it, it was cool when Carrier sucked up everything in 12m radius around you but gathering it on foot doesn't take half as long as people claim

[(PSN)joshw1400]

My prisma shade needs to when I'm stealthing or not.

[Qianna]

Kavatas seem more appealing.

[Wolfdoggie]

RIP Vacuum, it's garbage now. :(

Carrier is still best Sentinel though so DE solved nothing.

[Fylas]

1 minute ago, Qianna said:

Kavatas seem more appealing.

once they add vacuum of even a small range to warframes for having a kavat or kubrow  brought into the mission I never leave my smeeta kavat at home ever again XD

[Mutt2679]

2 minutes ago, chofranc said:

1. This new vacuum should work like chesa vacuum that pick up the loot instantly, the chesa vacuum for those that doesn't know how it work, instead of waiting that the loot fly to you, you get it instantly.

Did they change something? I was under the impression it just ran around and picked stuff up, not instantly. The carrier vacuum out did the Chesa by a long shot not too long ago. I might have missed a change or something though... so yeah. Just wondering where you got that info.

I've been using kavats since they were released, Agree with the increased range, maybe even back to normal, since I don't understand what the point of the range nerf was. And at this point, I think all of the sentinals need a survivability boost. The carrier prime is the strongest as far as stats go, Which looking at the sentinals, the djinn or deathcube should be, with shade possibly having the least due to invisibility.

Just my two cents

[morningstar999]

sadly I have to agree, at least of higher end stuff carrier is most useful, simply (least for me) as it is effective at killing than any other sentinel, and has far more durability, (least that might be due to the extra froma and love i have put in I have not really checked stat wise) 

Helios and the one that makes you invisible (name?) are the only other useful ones -wyrm is just a worm, and though djinn's electrical stun is useful it's not enough for me. 

I really wish death cube lived up to its name and was a bit more killy, cus its adorable.  (instead a kubrow or kavat is far more killy/useful)

People used to feel forced to use carrier because of vacuum, (which i did, id much rather use a cat/dog) -the passive was great in theory, BUT  they made it so rubbish Its not gonna make me want to change from carrier simply due to the damage my carrier does. 

If they gave it to cats/dogs however (even at the crappy 6m) I would let my sentinals rot in a corner and forever and ever be using them instead. (but kubrows are in bad need of a buff and some love to bring them up to kavat level and it makes me sad they are forgotten ) 

[robbybe01234]

41 minutes ago, armedpoop said:

Im not even going to say that it doesnt, but it adds literally 3m extra to the base of what have without a sentinel. Its basically nothing, on top of that it was actually much large loss than 50% overall due to it being measured in a diameter. 

I understand that the area loss is greater than 50% because the total area is greater at 6-12 than 1-6 but that shouldn't be the thing that matters.  The radius is all we should care about, the point of our frame and the point of the item in a straight line.  Unless I'm missing a point you're trying to make, it's just half effectiveness, or I need to move 100% more meters closer to the item than I had to before. 

[Troll_Logic]

33 minutes ago, Aerensiniac said:

Except you know... it was nerfed, its not more useful,

My Helios that scans and now has vacuum disagrees with you.

And he chuckles a bit at you as well.

[(PSN)IroncladBomber]

Now my Carrier will give me more ammo and act like an Ammo Mutation. Awesome, frees up mod space on my guns.

Or they could make Carrier spawn tiny drones, like a tiny aircraft carrier.