Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Nazrethim]

I'm honored by this, thank you.

also, yeah the white font color makes reading it a bit difficult.

[Melos-mevim]

oh yeah I remember reading this rework before, still one of my favorite suggestions for doing something to get rid of vomit cam simulator

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

23 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

also, yeah the white font color makes reading it a bit difficult.

Messaged the moderator to fix. Had to copy and paste using my phone. Srry bout that

32 minutes ago, low1991 said:

Can't read due to word/font colour.

 

 

[Nazrethim]

12 minutes ago, Melos-mevim said:

oh yeah I remember reading this rework before, still one of my favorite suggestions for doing something to get rid of vomit cam simulator

Well, not exactly "get rid", more like "Make it optional". I enjoy it from time to time to take kickarse Screenshots. Example (no captura here, just good eyes and twich-reflex)

Spoiler

 

[Azamagon]

Yeah, I will indeed agreed that @Nazrethim 's rework is the best rework I've seen so far. I mean, you keep everything he does currently AND allows him to do new stuff. And he also gets an additional interesting passive to give him a very specific "feel", which is really awesome!

The more times I read his suggestions, the more I like it.

Thus, I'd like to discuss some things to TRULY perfect it:

Passive - MotA
1) Make it work while blocking too would be nice too.
2) Using the marks with any of his abilities, does it also CONSUME those marks? Or do they last their entire duration regardless?
3) Are the marks' durations refreshable? I.e., are the marks constantly refreshed if you continue to stare at an enemy?

Shuriken -
1) Tapcast - Impaling ALIVE enemies on walls? Or dead ones? If alive, for how long? If only dead ones, then some more utility would be nice (like stagger/stun?).
2) Holdcast - If tapcast impales alive enemies on walls, then holdcast ones really oughta have some CC-utility too, like staggering/stunning enemies, as it otherwise serves no real function (besides some meager damage) on higher levels.
3) I'd suggest that both tap- and holdcast Shuriken stagger/stun enemies briefly, so this holdcast is the CC-useage of marks, while holdcast Teleportation is the Damage-useage of marks. Another idea would be that holdcast Shuriken do NOT consume marks (maybe even refresh the marks?), while holdcast Teleportation DOES consume marks.

Smoke Screen
1) How many clouds can you spawn at once? No limit? Only one at a time? Or like 3/4 clouds at once?
2) How'd you do suggest the cloud's visuals to be? I'd suggest them to be very non-obstructive to players, like very transparent or something. Ideas?
3) The blind/finisher thing, I'm assuming it'd function like Excalibur's Radial Blind, correct? Meaning, they are stunned (but only stunned if caught in the cloud's creation, right? Or are they stunned anytime they walk into the cloud? Or not stunned at all?), then they wander around blinded, being possible targets for finishers. Please correct me if I'm wrong here.

Teleport
1) Would the tapcast's forward free teleportation have a range limit?
2) An idea I had: If you aim while teleporting onto a wall, could it make him automatically wall-cling to it? That'd be totally awesome! :)
3) Holdcast teleport - Using the equipped melee? Isn't this a bit OP when used with a Covert Lethality dagger? I'd suggest to keep this part of the ability to still be that he uses his wristblades (so it's basicly current Bladestorm, but with altered damage, more to that on Bladestorm), then have Bladestorm's "finisher-aid" thing be that he summons smoke clones doing finishers too to help speed up the finisher process significantly, instead. Thus, I'd also suggest that the Bladestorm smoke clones ALWAYS do his wristblade finishers, even when you do a manual finisher with your equipped melee (such as with a tapcast Teleport-finisher).

Bladestorm
1) Like I said on Teleport, make it so the finisher-aiding part of it is that he summons smoke clones to aid with finishers, them always using wristblade finishers.
2) The damage on wristblade finishers, I'm assuming, has to be changed a bit because you want the wristblades to scale with melee mods, correct? That said, I'd at least let him keep the guaranteed bleed procs on wristblade finishers (both for him and clones), to retain some of their old and powerful style.
3) Just wanted to note that I love it being a deactivatable and refreshable duration-based stance! :)

And that's all I have for now. Eager to hear your responses @Nazrethim !

Edited May 10, 2017 by Azamagon

[TaylorsContraction]

No sorry,  I find dual abilities (tap or hold) super clunky and you've made every one dual.  That's too  garbo,  find the one you like and just keep that one.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

2 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

I'm honored by this, thank you.

No thank you for your hard work. You got my +1 all day every day bro. 

[TaylorsContraction]

I've only read up to smoke bomb.  First,  shuriken should have a Max default range of 50 meters,  there's no need to make it infinite. Furthermore there's no need to make it a dual mode ability,  just tap to cast no charging.  Incorporate the special charge effect into the ability why is every ash rework plagued by tap and hold abilities.

Second,  smoke bomb does not need dual mode  (hold,  tap).  Just throw mode is all it needs,  his hard is it to aim at your feet that you'd want a 1 second wasted just to... Listen to me just throw it at your feet yourself, no dual mode.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

2 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

I'm honored by this, thank you.

I used to run a 300% power strength build on Old Ash And I would synergize my augmented hek around his OLD BS and would speed it up, so I could kill 18 enemies in 1 animation. So when I activated OLD BS, ash would some times lead in with his jump spin kick and my hek would proc the AOE and enemies around my first target would either be staggered by it, killed or blasted away, then I would be back in the fight, felt like a BA killer ninja like I did playing the old school ninja games back in the days of "hard knocks ninja gaming"..lol reading your rework makes me feel that way again about ash. So thank you for that. Hope DE recognizes this and we can actually see it implemented.

Edited May 10, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[Circle_of_Psi]

Alright, where to start

We don't -NEED- another rework for Ash, we only need a few tweaking here and there to fix what he has going on with him now. I'm gonna be purely honest, anyone who keeps coming to the forums about such, either do not know how to play Ash or are simply put, upset over the fact that they lost their wee-little press 4 win meta.

Don't get me wrong, the rework idea is sound and will make a great frame on its own if perhaps we had a female warframe that was Ninja-based, but trying to put something onto Ash, that is just gonna make him OP, is not the way to, Warframe is not Nidusframe.

Also, using the @<Name- Here>, to try to get DE's attention is not gonna work and overall it's silly, DE are done with the rework, they have a lot more important things to do than cater to someone's wishes appealing to fix something that is -NOT- Broken, I've been maining Ash, from the start and even with his "Nerf" (as people call it). He is still highly playable, Fatal Teleport, Spy Missions or general fun, he does not have to be perfect at everything, like people keep trying to put Oberon in.

Just cuz, a frame can't int-win or clear a room, or do high-level missions, without a sweat or skill, does not mean, that Ash is not playable.

 

If you want my honest feeling about what Ash, needs then please feel free to ask.

 

 

Legion

 

 

P.S: Also to address the "Issues" Ash has, he has -ZERO-, I don't know what kind of gameplay, you use, but Ash haveing Energy issues, is completely false, his energy cost/pool is fine, using Auras like energy Siphon or Zenrerkin (How you spell it?) does help quite a bit.

 

Edited May 10, 2017 by LegionCynex
Edited Spelling & Issues

[Azamagon]

21 minutes ago, LegionCynex said:

P.S: Also to address the "Issues" Ash has, he has -ZERO-, I don't know what kind of gameplay, you use, but Ash haveing Energy issues, is completely false, his energy cost/pool is fine, using Auras like energy Siphon or Zenrerkin (How you spell it?) does help quite a bit.

 

Ofc Ash works as he is. He is indeed very powerful. But he isn't particularly polished, and still feels dated. Shuriken is still useless (unagmented), Smoke Screen is great, Teleport is ok, Bladestorm is still ... well, not all too interactive in the right way (but still powerful) and certainly makes Shuriken generally feel even more useless.
Something being "ok", doesn't mean it can't be polished to feel really awesome.

Note, when i say "polished to feel really awesome", I don't necessarily mean in any way that it should make the 'frame more POWERFUL, but it's all about making it having versatile and interactive mechanics and getting the right "feel" on the frame, where the whole kit meshes together with as much NATURAL synergy as possible in mind (not forced synergy / codependendy, like on Oberon / Saryn). Ash is currently lacking a lot in that department.
I mean, I unfortunately feel that's a problem with ALL Warframes. Yes, every single one of them. Powerful or weak ones, doesn't matter, they are all just "ok" in regards to how polished they feel.

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

the proposed rework is great but i'm not a fan of his 4th reworked, not because it's not good but i'm not a fan of stance like movements as i never use stance combos or whatever, i just press the standard melee button when equipped and if it happens i drop a combo is by pure accident and totally unwanted, but the rest is pretty good and solid and i agree it's really well tought and balanced...but like i said i never bother with stance combos, so i'd only be the EEEEEE with the casual more advanced combo that would be totally unintended by me.

but whoever takes the time to execute combos will surely enjoy it more than watching the cinematic. I'd keep the bladestorm marks and instead of the cinematic ash, when pressing 4 again only the clones are sent out to do the job while he can do everything else ( in PVE at least )...i don't mind the cinematic though, i got used to it so much i kinda like it now...or perhaps it got so old that i have just accepted it as is.

Again this is not a critic to the proposed rework which is the best i had a chance to read...the combo sistem for his 4th is a just minor personal issue i have with combos in general but i'm positive i would adapt to it and overcome my relation with combo attacks ( lol ) to squeeze the best out of bladestorm, so not really a big deal

Ash definitely needs another look again on his 11th month since that so called "restyle"...i refuse to call it a rework, it's not.

My 2 cents on smokescreen is that when he drops it, he leaves behind a puff of smoke that draws aggro, like the enemies start focusing on the smoke and ignore everything else etc, like when in the movie predator a whole team of mercenaries empty their magazines shooting at nothing because they thought something was there, while the hunter was already behind and upon them, something like that....to give it an extra perk rather than being a short time invisibility with a redundant and almost non existant stun

Edited May 10, 2017 by arm4geddon-117

[Circle_of_Psi]

48 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

Ofc Ash works as he is. He is indeed very powerful. But he isn't particularly polished, and still feels dated. Shuriken is still useless (unaugmented), Smoke Screen is great, Teleport is ok, Bladestorm is still ... well, not all too interactive in the right way (but still powerful) and certainly makes Shuriken generally feel even more useless.
Something being "ok", doesn't mean it can't be polished to feel really awesome.

 

 

 

I see your point, its quite unpolished, but I can't understand how you find Shuriken useless, I've been able to kill 100-level mobs and higher, it takes 1-2 shots, if not maybe 3, the Bleed Proc, also helps as well, quite a bit. Along with Teleport, it gets you closer to others, if they are too far away and the Augment makes it much more viable to use.

As for Bladestrom Sadly yes, while the "Marking" does make it interactive to some degree, I must say, it needs a few polishing. 

48 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

Note, when I say "polished to feel really awesome", I don't necessarily mean in any way that it should make the 'frame more POWERFUL, but it's all about making it having versatile and interactive mechanics and getting the right "feel" on the frame, where the whole kit meshes together with as much NATURAL synergy as possible in mind (not forced synergy/dependency, like on Oberon / Saryn). Ash is currently lacking a lot in that department.
I mean, I, unfortunately, feel that's a problem with ALL Warframes. Yes, every single one of them. Powerful or weak ones doesn't matter, they are all just "ok" in regards to how polished they feel.

 

 

 

Exactly this ^

Most frames, do miss the hole synergy/dependency, that they need to be inline of the others and well, My small "Tweaking" of Ash, fixes that, the OP does not, it simply makes Ash OP and makes him a "God-Frame", that will get nerfed, and then -this- repeats, I still wait the day Nidus gets his nerf.

So, as you kind of shared yours here is mine, your free to add you own lines or point out a mistake in what I see as "synergy/dependency".

1.Shuriken: All these needs is the Ivara treatment, give it more choices of types of blades to throw at acceptable levels, these are basic level ideas, as this is only his first power and for Ninja in a "space" game, is hard to pull off, but some ideas: <Chained Kunai> <Shuriken Storm> <Toxin Kunai> <Smoke-Bomb>

2.Fatal Teleport: Implanted into the power itself: No Longer an Augment.  

3. ????

4. Bladestrom: Same as before, Mark your targets, but Ash is free to move around and his clones do the killing.

<Passive>: Body's Vanish upon being killed, turning into ash/smoke, that grants him: ????

Edited May 10, 2017 by LegionCynex
Gave More Details

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

5 hours ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

Ash auto pilot needs to go, the huge energy cost for BS needs to go, If you love ninjas? If love ash? I believe this is a great way to give him a true rework. @Nazrethim @[DE]Rebecca

Now, the rework proposal. I've been working on this for roughly a year and a half, it passed trough many changes, but finally reached the zenith were all the issues are solved and actually catters to most groups (except the crowd that wants P4TW back in any form). This is a rework focused on finesse rather than brute force. Skill and attention over turning your brain off. I can answer any technical questions about how it would mechanically work behind the smoke and flash.

Ash rework:

Passive: Hemorrhage

Increases Bleed damage by 20% and Duration by 50%

Passive: Mark of the Assassin.

While aiming, gliding or latching, Ash marks enemies. Marked enemies take 20% extra Finisher and Bleed damage. Mark lasts 10s and uses no energy. Enemies marked are highlighted on the radar. 50m range.

 

Shuriken:

Tap: Ash throws a Shuriken in a straight line, dealing heavy Puncture damage, impaling enemies on walls. Has 3.0 punch trough. Also applies a Bleed proc.

Hold: After holding for 1s, Ash throws a barrage of smaller, seeking shurikens to all marked enemies, dealing Slash damage. Also applies a Bleed proc.

Seeking Shuriken:

 -Tap: removes 100% enemy Armor and ricochets on a surface it can't pass trough up to 3 times.

 -Hold: removes 50% enemy Armor.

Smoke Screen:

Ash creates a cloud of smoke that lasts for 12s (base duration at max ability lvl). Ash is invisible while inside the cloud and for 8s after leaving the cloud. Enemies inside the cloud are blinded and open for Finisher attacks. Cloud radius is 3m.

Tap: cast at Ash's feet.

Hold (1s): cast at the surface Ash is aiming (20m range max with default Power Range)

Smoke Shadow: Allies who enter/pass trough the cloud also gain invisibility while inside it and for 8s after leaving the cloud.

Teleport:

Tap: Ash teleports to the target location, stunning and opening nearby enemies to Finisher attacks. Cost 25 energy.

Hold: Ash goes into a rampage, teleporting and attacking all marked enemies with his currently equiped weapon (essentially current blade storm) for 15 energy (10 if invisible) per enemy.

Fatal Teleport:

 -Refunds 50% of the cost on next kill.

 -Tap: Ash will Finish the nearest enemy instantly, triggering a second radial stagger with opening.

 -Hold: Increase Finisher damage 200%

 

Blade Storm:

Ash enters into Blade Storm mode (he pulls his blades out and vents more smoke). Roll, Sidestep and Backspring are replaced by manic-like teleports. On Finisher attacks Ash will rapidly teleport between enemies assassinating small groups (alternatively 3 holographic clones will show up to do a Finisher on nearby enermies, essentially Ash Finish up to 4 enemies per finisher attack in this mode)

Combos are a mix of kicks and vicious blade attacks.

Basic combo (EEE): Does nothing special.

Combo 1 (EEpauseEE): hit>hit>radial attack with Bleed procs>Open an enemy in front of Ash to Finisher attack.

Combo 2 (Ermb+EE) Ash lunges forward in a puff of smoke, stabbing and inflicting Bleed on enemies in line.

Duration based ultimate. Tap while active to refresh, Hold to cancel.

Rising Storm:

 -Increase COmbo counter while in Blade Storm by 10s and the combo counter increase by +0.25x

 

Conclave version:

Passive: Hemorrhage

Melee strikes inflict a Bleed proc dealing 10% of the weapons Slash damage per second for 3s

Passive: Mark of the Assassin

Only marks on radar. Has 10m marking range and falls off when enemy is 20m away. Lasts only 5s.

Shuriken:

-Tap deals 70 Puncture damage

-Hold deals 25 Slash damage+10 Bleed over 10s

Smoke Screen:

Cloud duration is 6s, lingering invisibility is 4s. Attacking, casting abilities or picking items cancels lingering invisbility but not cloud invisibility. It also increases Mobility by 0.4

Tear Gas:

-Enemies that enter the cloud are Blinded while inside it and for 1.5s after leaving it.

Teleport: (Tap only, Hold function disabled)

Ash teleports to the location he is aiming. (Doesn't trigger a Stagger)

Blade Storm:

Doesn't trigger Finishers, instead it deals heavy damage (not oneshot though) and inflicts a Bleed proc on hit. Lasts only 10s.

Sinister Shadow (Augment):

Ash leaves an afterimage of himself whenever he performs a dash. Lasts 2s.

It creates a static decoy that doesn't move nor has collision of any type, it's purpose is deception/distraction.

 

Note: Conclave abilities work mostly the same as the PvE counterparts, the mechanics listed are only the changes for balance.

Edited 23 hours ago by Nazrethim

thank you for reading. 

 

43 minutes ago, LegionCynex said:

I see your point, its quite unpolished, but I can't understand how you find Shuriken useless, I've been able to kill 100-level mobs and higher, it takes 1-2 shots, if not maybe 3, the Bleed Proc, also helps as well, quite a bit. Along with Teleport, it gets you closer to others, if they are too far away and the Augment makes it much more viable to use.

As for Bladestrom Sadly yes, while the "Marking" does make it interactive to some degree, I must say, it needs a few polishing. 

Exactly this ^

Most frames, do miss the hole synergy/dependency, that they need to be inline of the others and well, My small "Tweaking" of Ash, fixes that, the OP does not, it simply makes Ash OP and makes him a "God-Frame", that will get nerfed, and then -this- repeats, I still wait the day Nidus gets his nerf.

So, as you kind of shared yours here is mine, your free to add you own lines or point out a mistake in what I see as "synergy/dependency".

1.Shuriken: All these needs is the Ivara treatment, give it more choices of types of blades to throw at acceptable levels, these are basic level ideas, as this is only his first power and for Ninja in a "space" game, is hard to pull off, but some ideas: <Chained Kunai> <Shuriken Storm> <Toxin Kunai> <Smoke-Bomb>

2.Fatal Teleport: Implanted into the power itself: No Longer an Augment.  

3. ????

4. Bladestrom: Same as before, Mark your targets, but Ash is free to move around and his clones do the killing.

<Passive>: Body's Vanish upon being killed, turning into ash/smoke, that grants him: ????

 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

15 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

see your point, its quite unpolished, but I can't understand how you find Shuriken useless, I've been able to kill 100-level mobs and higher, it takes 1-2 shots, if not maybe 3, the Bleed Proc, also helps as well, quite a bit. Along with Teleport, it gets you closer to others, if they are too far away and the Augment makes it much more viable to use.

As for Bladestrom Sadly yes, while the "Marking" does make it interactive to some degree, I must say, it needs a few polishing. 

Exactly this ^

Most frames, do miss the hole synergy/dependency, that they need to be inline of the others and well, My small "Tweaking" of Ash, fixes that, the OP does not, it simply makes Ash OP and makes him a "God-Frame", that will get nerfed, and then -this- repeats, I still wait the day Nidus gets his nerf.

So, as you kind of shared yours here is mine, your free to add you own lines or point out a mistake in what I see as "synergy/dependency".

1.Shuriken: All these needs is the Ivara treatment, give it more choices of types of blades to throw at acceptable levels, these are basic level ideas, as this is only his first power and for Ninja in a "space" game, is hard to pull off, but some ideas: <Chained Kunai> <Shuriken Storm> <Toxin Kunai> <Smoke-Bomb>

2.Fatal Teleport: Implanted into the power itself: No Longer an Augment.  

3. ????

4. Bladestrom: Same as before, Mark your targets, but Ash is free to move around and his clones do the killing.

<Passive>: Body's Vanish upon being killed, turning into ash/smoke, that grants him: ????

@Nazrethim lol world on blade storm lol Ash is a killer, Ash is a martial artist, Ash does the killing not his "shadows".  Ash is not a summoner. 

Edited May 10, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[Circle_of_Psi]

51 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

@Nazrethim lol world on blade storm lol Ash is a killer, Ash is a martial artist, Ash does the killing not his "shadows".  Ash is not a summoner. 

That's a good point, However Ash does need something so you don't have to sit into a cutscene all the time but gonna be honest, Ash Rework is done and complete, In the end we all just have to put up with what DE gave us.

 

Ash is fine, the way he is.

 

 

Case Closed

Edited May 10, 2017 by LegionCynex

[MudShadow]

They're not going to completely overhaul a frame they've re-worked already. Best you can hope for is that they change Ash's ULT. 

Edited May 10, 2017 by MudShadow

[Nazrethim]

6 hours ago, Azamagon said:

Yeah, I will indeed agreed that @Nazrethim 's rework is the best rework I've seen so far. I mean, you keep everything he does currently AND allows him to do new stuff. And he also gets an additional interesting passive to give him a very specific "feel", which is really awesome!

The more times I read his suggestions, the more I like it.

Thus, I'd like to discuss some things to TRULY perfect it:

Passive - MotA
1) Make it work while blocking too would be nice too.
2) Using the marks with any of his abilities, does it also CONSUME those marks? Or do they last their entire duration regardless?
3) Are the marks' durations refreshable? I.e., are the marks constantly refreshed if you continue to stare at an enemy?

1) The wording is a bit outdated. The actual mechanic behind the marking mode is that it is triggered on whenever you hold the RMB key, which is used to aim, block, glide and latch.

2)Yes, this I didn't add to it because this is the 'short' version of the rework, the 'long' version includes a description of all the mechanical workings behind it.

3) Shame on me, I haven't considered this. But I would say yes.

6 hours ago, Azamagon said:

Shuriken -
1) Tapcast - Impaling ALIVE enemies on walls? Or dead ones? If alive, for how long? If only dead ones, then some more utility would be nice (like stagger/stun?).
2) Holdcast - If tapcast impales alive enemies on walls, then holdcast ones really oughta have some CC-utility too, like staggering/stunning enemies, as it otherwise serves no real function (besides some meager damage) on higher levels.
3) I'd suggest that both tap- and holdcast Shuriken stagger/stun enemies briefly, so this holdcast is the CC-useage of marks, while holdcast Teleportation is the Damage-useage of marks. Another idea would be that holdcast Shuriken do NOT consume marks (maybe even refresh the marks?), while holdcast Teleportation DOES consume marks.

1) Dead ones. It practically behaves like current Arrows fired by bows.

2) Hold cast is designed around hitting many enemies. You can deal say, 3k damage to a single target (or line of targets) with the regular Tap or hit as many enemies as you can mark with a weaker shuriken. And if you have the augment you can do a mass armor strip.

3)That's an interesting idea and I like it.

6 hours ago, Azamagon said:

Smoke Screen
1) How many clouds can you spawn at once? No limit? Only one at a time? Or like 3/4 clouds at once?
2) How'd you do suggest the cloud's visuals to be? I'd suggest them to be very non-obstructive to players, like very transparent or something. Ideas?
3) The blind/finisher thing, I'm assuming it'd function like Excalibur's Radial Blind, correct? Meaning, they are stunned (but only stunned if caught in the cloud's creation, right? Or are they stunned anytime they walk into the cloud? Or not stunned at all?), then they wander around blinded, being possible targets for finishers. Please correct me if I'm wrong here.

1) It could be Only one at a time (so the cloud duration is displayed as the ability timer) or be 2-4 clouds, it really doesn't matter as the ability is recastable anyway.

2) Same as the current visual, only scaled up. Units inside it would be highlighted red (enemy) or blue (players/pets/allies)

3) In the 'long' version, it's described as a 3s finisher opening, animation is the same as Banshee's Silence stun.

6 hours ago, Azamagon said:

Teleport
1) Would the tapcast's forward free teleportation have a range limit?
2) An idea I had: If you aim while teleporting onto a wall, could it make him automatically wall-cling to it? That'd be totally awesome! :)
3) Holdcast teleport - Using the equipped melee? Isn't this a bit OP when used with a Covert Lethality dagger? I'd suggest to keep this part of the ability to still be that he uses his wristblades (so it's basicly current Bladestorm, but with altered damage, more to that on Bladestorm), then have Bladestorm's "finisher-aid" thing be that he summons smoke clones doing finishers too to help speed up the finisher process significantly, instead. Thus, I'd also suggest that the Bladestorm smoke clones ALWAYS do his wristblade finishers, even when you do a manual finisher with your equipped melee (such as with a tapcast Teleport-finisher).

1) Yes, default Teleport range limit of 60m. It would also include a system check so it says "invalid target" if the player attempts to use it on out-of-bounds area.

2) That could be added yes, or not, if the ability teleports you to where you aim, simply holding RMB while teleporting to a wall should initiate the latch.

3) Well, I was thinking to specify that the automatic mode would benefit from it, but the aimed mode will. But using his wristblades is also an option.

6 hours ago, Azamagon said:

Bladestorm
1) Like I said on Teleport, make it so the finisher-aiding part of it is that he summons smoke clones to aid with finishers, them always using wristblade finishers.
2) The damage on wristblade finishers, I'm assuming, has to be changed a bit because you want the wristblades to scale with melee mods, correct? That said, I'd at least let him keep the guaranteed bleed procs on wristblade finishers (both for him and clones), to retain some of their old and powerful style.
3) Just wanted to note that I love it being a deactivatable and refreshable duration-based stance! :)

1) Yes, the idea originally was a special multikill finisher animation, but alternatively, the 3 clones would show up to finish nearby enemies.

2) The wristblades would scale with: Damage mods (Spoiled Strike, PP), Passive Attack Speed mods (Fury, Quickening).

3) Yes, the idea of making it a Duration based is more a middle wristblade to Fleeting Expertise for reasons you may already understand. But I have memories of having to run into a nullifier or jumping into a pit as Valkyr to cancel old Duration Hysteria. So I added that manual deactivation. Why is in the 'Hold' instead of the 'Tap' ? Because you may accidentally cancel it when you don't intend to.

6 hours ago, Azamagon said:

And that's all I have for now. Eager to hear your responses @Nazrethim !

Thank you.

Another detail is that all the 'Hold's are FIXED. They are all 1s long and then the ability goes off, not affected by mods like Natural Talent, the idea is to make them quickly accessible while avoiding finger exaustion by holding a key for long periods, as well as preventing players from accidentally using a Hold function when they intended to use the Tap one;  which would also disrupt gameplay (specially on Console controlers). If you prefer to use the Hold functions over the Tap ones you may also go to Options and invert hold/tap too.

[Nazrethim]

4 hours ago, LegionCynex said:

Alright, where to start

We don't -NEED- another rework for Ash, we only need a few tweaking here and there to fix what he has going on with him now.

His other abilities could get tweaks, but BS needs an overhaul because it cannot possibly be buffed in any meaningful way without going back to P4TW.

4 hours ago, LegionCynex said:

I'm gonna be purely honest, anyone who keeps coming to the forums about such, either do not know how to play Ash or are simply put, upset over the fact that they lost their wee-little press 4 win meta.

I've been playing Ash since I started Warframe 3 years ago, I know how to build him in different ways and make the most of it. I know his good and bad parts, and right now the bad outnumbers the good.

4 hours ago, LegionCynex said:

Don't get me wrong, the rework idea is sound and will make a great frame on its own if perhaps we had a female warframe that was Ninja-based, but trying to put something onto Ash, that is just gonna make him OP, is not the way to, Warframe is not Nidusframe.

This wouldn't make Ash Op actually. OP in generals means something that is very powerful while requiring little effort, this Ash rework would require more effort from the player to get the most of it, and still wouldn't be as powerful as Nidus, but it would definetly be a force to be reckoned with.

4 hours ago, LegionCynex said:

Also, using the @<Name- Here>, to try to get DE's attention is not gonna work and overall it's silly, DE are done with the rework, they have a lot more important things to do than cater to someone's wishes appealing to fix something that is -NOT- Broken, I've been maining Ash, from the start and even with his "Nerf" (as people call it). He is still highly playable, Fatal Teleport, Spy Missions or general fun, he does not have to be perfect at everything, like people keep trying to put Oberon in.

Yeah, beacuse an ultimate draining 810 Fing energy to do what it used to do for 100 is totally not broken, nevermind having 3 useless abilities in conclave and 1 near useless one. Or the fact that all other reworks have improved in some way the target frame while Ash got nerfed in nearly everything. Playable doesn't mean Good. That's like saying that Big Rigs was an awesome Truck Racing Game because it was "Playable".

4 hours ago, LegionCynex said:

Just cuz, a frame can't int-win or clear a room, or do high-level missions, without a sweat or skill, does not mean, that Ash is not playable.

Except Ash's gig IS killing people left and right, skill and sweat is something I did take into account, hence why I didn't go with Clone summoning or World on Bladestorm, and avoided the Espam or Slidespam macroing that defines Exalted Blade and Hysteria.

4 hours ago, LegionCynex said:

P.S: Also to address the "Issues" Ash has, he has -ZERO-, I don't know what kind of gameplay, you use, but Ash haveing Energy issues, is completely false, his energy cost/pool is fine, using Auras like energy Siphon or Zenrerkin (How you spell it?) does help quite a bit.

No frame should be balanced around max Efficiency (which is a broken stat) or Arcanes/Focus schools. Take your Ash for a spin around the system, sorties, etc on DEFAULT power set ups and come back and say that he has no energy issues. And it's Zenurik.

[Azamagon]

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

PASSIVE

1) The wording is a bit outdated. The actual mechanic behind the marking mode is that it is triggered on whenever you hold the RMB key, which is used to aim, block, glide and latch.

2)Yes, this I didn't add to it because this is the 'short' version of the rework, the 'long' version includes a description of all the mechanical workings behind it.

3) Shame on me, I haven't considered this. But I would say yes.

SHURIKEN

1) Dead ones. It practically behaves like current Arrows fired by bows.

2) Hold cast is designed around hitting many enemies. You can deal say, 3k damage to a single target (or line of targets) with the regular Tap or hit as many enemies as you can mark with a weaker shuriken. And if you have the augment you can do a mass armor strip.

3)That's an interesting idea and I like it.

SMOKE SCREEN

1) It could be Only one at a time (so the cloud duration is displayed as the ability timer) or be 2-4 clouds, it really doesn't matter as the ability is recastable anyway.

2) Same as the current visual, only scaled up. Units inside it would be highlighted red (enemy) or blue (players/pets/allies)

3) In the 'long' version, it's described as a 3s finisher opening, animation is the same as Banshee's Silence stun.

TELEPORT

1) Yes, default Teleport range limit of 60m. It would also include a system check so it says "invalid target" if the player attempts to use it on out-of-bounds area.

2) That could be added yes, or not, if the ability teleports you to where you aim, simply holding RMB while teleporting to a wall should initiate the latch.

3) Well, I was thinking to specify that the automatic mode would benefit from it, but the aimed mode will. But using his wristblades is also an option.

BLADESTORM

1) Yes, the idea originally was a special multikill finisher animation, but alternatively, the 3 clones would show up to finish nearby enemies.

2) The wristblades would scale with: Damage mods (Spoiled Strike, PP), Passive Attack Speed mods (Fury, Quickening).

3) Yes, the idea of making it a Duration based is more a middle wristblade to Fleeting Expertise for reasons you may already understand. But I have memories of having to run into a nullifier or jumping into a pit as Valkyr to cancel old Duration Hysteria. So I added that manual deactivation. Why is in the 'Hold' instead of the 'Tap' ? Because you may accidentally cancel it when you don't intend to.

PASSIVE
1) Goodie
2) So... consume or full duration? xD
3) Yeah, it would just make sense.

SHURIKEN
1) Alright, good.
2) Well, lack of utility is still not a good thing. It's one of the few abilities that ONLY deals damage, and nothing else (unaugmented). So even with the mark multicasting, it still not an ability I'd call particularly versatile.
3) The CC or the mark differences? Or both? :D

SMOKE SCREEN
1) Well, yeah, I agreed, it doesn't really matter (Was just curious on your stance on it). I'd be perfectly fine with one cloud too.
2) Hmm, so mildly obstructive? Then I'd add to it that the screen should break line of sight for enemies too. Otherwise it could be more detrimental than beneficial (at least for your team).
3) So the blind duration is only 3 seconds too (which is fine imo)? Because as far as I've understood with DE's coding, you can't really split the "open for finisher"-timer and the blinded-timer, so i think you'd have to make it kinda like Excali's blind: When you cast the cloud, enemies caught in its creation area are stunned + blinded (I'd recommend that the stun+blind radius upon summoning a cloud should be larger than the lingering cloud's radius, to compensate a bit for the loss of the current handy AoE stagger). Any enemies walking into the small cloud AFTER it's already created are only blinded, but the blind debuff is continuously reapplied for those that remain in the cloud. Any enemy that is blinded (by any means of this ability) are eligible targets for finishers. That's how I'd recommend how it would work mechanically, as it'd both be making sense and it probably wouldn't be too OP either.

TELEPORT
1) Ok, good.
2) Great! I mean, don't you think it sounds pretty awesome? :D
3) Umm... that was unclear! xD What I meant was, which would be best for balance is:

• Tap-Teleport is a regular "open for finisher" stun AoE.
• Hold-Teleport is current "Wristblade Bladestorm" in attack animations, but the base damage of the attacks are lowered compared to current Bladestorm, compensated by the damage also scaling with melee mods, similar to any other Exalted weapon. Why? Because if Hold-Teleport was using equipped weapons, you'd just constantly use a Covert Lethality dagger and massmurder enemies with absolute ease. That'd be a too OP, for sure.
• Doing a finisher (be it from regular ones ala Tap-Teleport, or special ones ala Hold-Teleport) while in your Bladestorm-mode causes clones to appear. These clones do "Wristblade Bladetorm" (just like the Hold-Teleport) on nearby enemies, no matter what finisher was used to trigger their appearance. That way, these clones are also not too OP in regards to their damage done.

BLADESTORM
1) I think the clones work the best, because that'd synergize the best with Teleport (both tap- and holdcast)
2) That's... really weak, honestly. I thought you meant that they'd be like regular Exalted weapons, scaling with elementals and all that (To differentiate them though, I suggest to give them rather high base damage, but with a meager 0% - 5% status chance and crit chance, but with innate bleedprocs, at least on certain combos (as already was mentioned, although I'd include the final strike of the basic combo too) and definitely triggered on their finishers. That way he is all about raw damage and bleeds, similar to his current ultimate).
To note; I guess if you do manual finishers while in this stance, it would do the same varied animations like on the current Bladestorm (which would also mean, same damage and animations as Hold-Teleport)?
3) Yup, as I expected :)

Edited May 10, 2017 by Azamagon

[Nazrethim]

2 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

2) So... consume or full duration? xD

Probably consume. Keeping the marks would be a hassle if you just intended, say, use mass shuriken to strip armor but then you wanted to Hold-teleport a few critical enemies and not the entire platoon.

2 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

2) Well, lack of utility is still not a good thing. It's one of the few abilities that ONLY deals damage, and nothing else (unaugmented). So even with the mark multicasting, it still not an ability I'd call particularly versatile.

On the other hand, mark has a 50 cap target, if you mark many enemies you essentially deal more total damage than firing the single piercing shuriken. Say the Tap deals 2k damage, and the Hold deals 500 damage, Hold is weaker right? until you factor in that your Tap may hit at best 4 dudes (for a total damage of 8k) while the Hold could, for the same amount of energy, hit 20 dudes (for a total of 10k).

2 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

3) The CC or the mark differences? Or both? :D

The CC part mostly, a stagger (like current SS) would be fine. Shurikens were historically used for distraction or to slow down a chasing enemy so it would make sense. The reason I'm not sure about mark refreshing is explained on why both Hold Teleport and Shuriken would use the marks.

2 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

SMOKE SCREEN
1) Well, yeah, I agreed, it doesn't really matter (Was just curious on your stance on it). I'd be perfectly fine with one cloud too.

Me too, would make it more of tactical tool than "cover the entire world on smoke!" if only one cloud could be active at any given time.

2 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

2) Hmm, so mildly obstructive? Then I'd add to it that the screen should break line of sight for enemies too. Otherwise it could be more detrimental than beneficial (at least for your team).

Well, it really doesn't matter breaking their line of sight as alerted enemies always know where you are. But making it a LoS blocker for enemies may add further utility to it so it's okay for me.

2 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

3) So the blind duration is only 3 seconds too (which is fine imo)? Because as far as I've understood with DE's coding, you can't really split the "open for finisher"-timer and the blinded-timer, so i think you'd have to make it kinda like Excali's blind: When you cast the cloud, enemies caught in its creation area are stunned + blinded (I'd recommend that the stun+blind radius upon summoning a cloud should be larger than the lingering cloud's radius, to compensate a bit for the loss of the current handy AoE stagger). Any enemies walking into the small cloud AFTER it's already created are only blinded, but the blind debuff is continuously reapplied for those that remain in the cloud. Any enemy that is blinded (by any means of this ability) are eligible targets for finishers. That's how I'd recommend how it would work mechanically, as it'd both be making sense and it probably wouldn't be too OP either.

Don't think about it as Radial Blind, think of it as Savage Silence. The Could would indeed keep victims inside choking (blind is just short term to define their state, I may as well say stunned or sleeping or other term) while making any other poor soul that wanders in choke too.

2 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

2) Great! I mean, don't you think it sounds pretty awesome? :D

Yes, since the purpose of the change is make it a useful mobility tool. Limiting it's effectivity only to ground would be silly.

2 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

3) Umm... that was unclear! xD What I meant was, which would be best for balance is:

• Tap-Teleport is a regular "open for finisher" stun AoE.
• Hold-Teleport is current "Wristblade Bladestorm" in attack animations, but the base damage of the attacked is lowered compared to current Bladestorm, but the damage also scales with melee mods similar to any other Exalted weapon. Why? Because if Hold-Teleport was using equipped weapons, you'd just constantly use a Covert Lethality dagger and massmurder enemies with absolute ease. That'd be a too OP, for sure.
• Doing a finisher (be it from regular ones ala Tap-Teleport, or special ones ala Hold-Teleport) while in your Bladestorm-mode causes clones to appear. These clones do "Wristblade Bladetorm" (just like the Hold-Teleport) on nearby enemies, no matter what finisher was used to trigger their appearance. That way, these clones are also not too OP in regards to their damage done.

Both Tap and Hold would use whatever melee weapon you have equiped, which can be your actual melee weapon or the wristblades if you are on BS mode. Since the 'Hold' is essentially another ability bound to the same key it could have CL disabled for it without affecting the Tap version.

Clones on Blade Storm mode are unleashed by doing a Finisher, since both version of Teleport do Finisher attacks they appear in both (or on those choking inside the Smoke Screen!). The clones would actually deal the same damage Ash does to it's target.

2 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

BLADESTORM
1) I think the clones work the best, because that'd synergize the best with Teleport (both tap- and holdcast)

And Smoke Screen.

2 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

2) That's... really weak, honestly. I thought you meant that they'd be like regular Exalted weapons, scaling with elementals and all that (To differentiate them though, I suggest to give them rather high base damage, but with a meager 0% - 5% status chance and crit chance, but with innate bleedprocs, at least on certain combos (as already was mentioned, although I'd include the final strike of the basic combo too) and definitely triggered on their finishers. That way he is all about raw damage and bleeds, similar to his current ultimate).

Remember we are talking about a weapon that deals Finisher damage, so it doesn't really needs all other damage buffs. The other weapons use balanced IPS so they need more damage. There's also the Augment to take into account, as Rising Storm would give Blade Storm Body Count, which is something the other stance ultimates don't have, and it also boosts the combo counter gains, so the damage would go trough the roof just in a different way.

2 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

To note; I guess if you do manual finishers while in this stance, it would do the same varied animations like on the current Bladestorm (which would also mean, same damage and animations as Hold-Teleport)?

Yup, Finishers in BS mode use the same animations, just without the camera angle changing.

In fact I was thinking we should have an option for the game in general: Cinematic Finishers, a toggle on/off, if it's on all your melee finishers get BS camera angles, if you have it off they proceed as they do now.

 

[Azamagon]

5 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

1) Probably consume. Keeping the marks would be a hassle if you just intended, say, use mass shuriken to strip armor but then you wanted to Hold-teleport a few critical enemies and not the entire platoon.

2) On the other hand, mark has a 50 cap target, if you mark many enemies you essentially deal more total damage than firing the single piercing shuriken. Say the Tap deals 2k damage, and the Hold deals 500 damage, Hold is weaker right? until you factor in that your Tap may hit at best 4 dudes (for a total damage of 8k) while the Hold could, for the same amount of energy, hit 20 dudes (for a total of 10k).

3) The CC part mostly, a stagger (like current SS) would be fine. Shurikens were historically used for distraction or to slow down a chasing enemy so it would make sense. The reason I'm not sure about mark refreshing is explained on why both Hold Teleport and Shuriken would use the marks.

4) Me too, would make it more of tactical tool than "cover the entire world on smoke!" if only one cloud could be active at any given time.

5) Well, it really doesn't matter breaking their line of sight as alerted enemies always know where you are. But making it a LoS blocker for enemies may add further utility to it so it's okay for me.

6) Don't think about it as Radial Blind, think of it as Savage Silence. The Could would indeed keep victims inside choking (blind is just short term to define their state, I may as well say stunned or sleeping or other term) while making any other poor soul that wanders in choke too.

7) Yes, since the purpose of the change is make it a useful mobility tool. Limiting it's effectivity only to ground would be silly.

8) Both Tap and Hold would use whatever melee weapon you have equiped, which can be your actual melee weapon or the wristblades if you are on BS mode. Since the 'Hold' is essentially another ability bound to the same key it could have CL disabled for it without affecting the Tap version.

9) Clones on Blade Storm mode are unleashed by doing a Finisher, since both version of Teleport do Finisher attacks they appear in both (or on those choking inside the Smoke Screen!). The clones would actually deal the same damage Ash does to it's target.

10) And Smoke Screen.

11) Remember we are talking about a weapon that deals Finisher damage, so it doesn't really needs all other damage buffs. The other weapons use balanced IPS so they need more damage. There's also the Augment to take into account, as Rising Storm would give Blade Storm Body Count, which is something the other stance ultimates don't have, and it also boosts the combo counter gains, so the damage would go trough the roof just in a different way.

12) Yup, Finishers in BS mode use the same animations, just without the camera angle changing.

In fact I was thinking we should have an option for the game in general: Cinematic Finishers, a toggle on/off, if it's on all your melee finishers get BS camera angles, if you have it off they proceed as they do now.

 

1) Consume it is! :D

2) Still, what's the point of tickling so many enemies? ;)

3) Yeah, exactly. And thus we could just conclude: Holdcast Shuriken ALSO consumes marks. Easy decision then :)

4) Yup, agreed.

5) Being a LoS blocker is what I meant. The reason I think it's important is because I meant that otherwise the smoke cloud could be visually very detrimental to your team; Enemies would be able to see through it and shoot you, but allies wouldn't be able to see those enemies behind the cloud. Thus; LoS blocker, which would mean those "hidden" enemies are no longer as much of a threat anymore.

6) Hmm... well, imo, that sounds a tad too strong. If enemies who wander in are continuously stunned, it feels like it would be too strong of a chokepoint (pun intended!) blocker. If them going into the cloud made them only debuffed with blind (as in, the game's definition of blind), they would be able to run through the cloud, albeit still lessened as a threat (but not entirely hard-CC'd). That's a bit less OP, imo.

7) Not to mention how much more "Hollywood Ninja"-feel it would add to him! :)

8) I dunno, that doesn't sound like it would be obvious to me (that CL wouldn't work on hold-cast, i mean). Besides, if it was with Wristblades on hold-cast, it would be more akin to Shuriken: Far more quantity and speed, but less power on each (well, depends on the weapon used with tap-cast, but considering that Covert Lethality exists...). It would also make sense with the different energycosts.

Which leads me to the next question:

If both tap and hold teleport uses equipped melee for their damage, what is the general killing-use of the tap teleport? It'd both be more expensive AND slower. If hold-teleport costed as much energy as tap-teleport (per target), I'd see the point of both existing as suggested.
So, if both versions are to use equipped melee, I'd heavily suggest that both tapcast and holdcast cost the same energy, whatever that cost may be (with no reduction during stealth, that's just a pointless forced synergy imo). That way, it'd even be fair (even if quite OP) to let Covert Lethality work on both tapcast and holdcast.

9) Alright, as expected then. I was just stupid and forgot that while in Bladestorm mode you are bound to use the Wristblades. So just forget what I said there xD

10) Of course :P

11) I didn't know you intended it to deal finisher damage as basedamage. Still, most of melee mod scaling is via critbuilds (Acolyte mod shenanigans) or via basic raw power which includes elemental mods and such. This means that modding your melee for Bladestorm-mode would HEAVILY conflict with your regular melee useage (which is always a bummer), more so than any other Exalted melee weapon. (Note: This discussion would be a complete non-issue if Exalted weapons were modded seperately from your regular weapons.)
Thus I wouldn't be able to take a stance on your suggestions here yet, as this is something I'd like to test out in practice first. Your suggestions might actually be perfectly fine *shrugs*

12) Sounds good! :)

 

[Circle_of_Psi]

2 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

-Snip-

 

You do raise quite a few good points I'll give you that OP, your more understanding than your little fan you have

So let's get down so I can end this, cuz I'm gonna be honest, this is starting to get really old.

(His other abilities could get tweaks, but BS needs an overhaul because it cannot possibly be buffed in any meaningful way without going back to P4TW.)

Yes, I agree his powers need a few tweaks, here and there, but I can't stress enough, Bladestrom is fine the way it is, a few fixes and changes, will make it a whole lot better, what you suggested is great, but it will make ash pointless. Ash is about triggering finishers on top of each other Like fatal teleport does. If this is what you did suggest then please correct me.

(I've been playing Ash since I started Warframe 3 years ago, I know how to build him in different ways and make the most of it. I know his good and bad parts, and right now the bad outnumbers the good.)

Vice Versa, I have done the same thing as well, whom is why I suggested a few tweaks here and there, and have blade storm as either how it is, with a simple fix to let his clones do the talking and let ash move freely. Then again if his Bladestrom will allow him to trigger a much bigger F.T, then I'll be glad to use him for such. As that does fit his role.

(This wouldn't make Ash Op actually. OP in generals means something that is very powerful while requiring little effort, this Ash rework would require more effort from the player to get the most of it, and still wouldn't be as powerful as Nidus, but it would definitely be a force to be reckoned with.)

 Granted, that is a good point, the build you suggested, does feel really OP in my eyes, perhaps I need to look into it a lot much more, besides looking at your wonderful artwork (Btw, wanted to point that out, well done). And surely you can see where I come from, with people demanding "Damage only powers, no heal or support, I want to win the game, by pushing 4!" Meta.

(Yeah, because an ultimate draining 810 Fing energy to do what it used to do for 100 is totally not broken, nevermind having 3 useless abilities in conclave and 1 near useless one. Or the fact that all other reworks have improved in some way the target frame while Ash got nerfed in nearly everything. Playable doesn't mean Good. That's like saying that Big Rigs was an awesome Truck Racing Game because it was "Playable")

(No frame should be balanced around max Efficiency (which is a broken stat) or Arcane /Focus schools. Take your Ash for a spin around the system, sorties, etc on DEFAULT power set ups and come back and say that he has no energy issues. And it's Zenurik.)

 

Not gonna lie, this is a great point, you made here and I have to admit, you gave me quite the chuckle, that game...yeah, just...no. As for his Uly draining so much, I can't see why you are haveing this issue, but perhaps its cuz of my build.

If I May, could you provide me your build?, in fairness I;ll do the same, but I wanna see for myself, what exactly your haveing issues with, cuz I don't have this at all, maybe what we can do is meet up in-game and test each othjers builds out, and perhas work togather, see how standpoints.

(Except Ash's gig IS killing people left and right, skill and sweat is something I did take into account, hence why I didn't go with Clone summoning or World on Bladestorm, and avoided the E-spam or Slide spam macroing that defines Exalted Blade and Hysteria.)

Good point will leave it how this is here. As long we don;t go crazy on damage and make him able to wipe a room and then for only people to ask for a nerf, that then ends up this repeating. A frame should not be able to do this, like Excal/Valkitty or Nidus, like I said.

 

 

Legion

 

Again, sorry if I sound snarky, but I've seen so many folks, begging DE to fix things that they can't handle or think is broken ("Oberon nerf")

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

4 hours ago, LegionCynex said:

your more understanding than your little fan you have

(Seem to have left my "middle finger" emoji on my other cpu) lol :p j/k

 fyi your little jabs at me here and there are going to stop. Thank you

Edited May 11, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[Oranji]

I haven't touched Bladestorm after the rework as it feels a lot more stupid than the original one.

The main issue with it- being a vomit fest of a slide show, still remains. It's like spinning yourself like a top before riding a roller coaster full of loops.

Tell me that isn't broken? It' imo, by far the worst rework they've ever done to a skill. "They did not make it more interactive, they just added a trigger mechanism to watch the animation."

 

Edited May 10, 2017 by Oranji