HEMA Final Word - No Mutagen Drop or Cost change

[Liminal]

Just now, notlamprey said:

we might be able to convince DE that these massive item costs are not a good idea if we show them with our in-game behavior in addition to our words here on the forums.

I'm definitely on it. I haven't even started the Hema research and I'm not farming samples at all. I'm just playing the game like I always do, which means I step on derelicts extremely rarely. I also told my other clanmate (we used to be 10 at one point but now it's just the two of us, that's how irl friend clans work I guess) to do the same.

Oh and I'm ignoring the plat coupons... this part is kinda painful to be honest :P

[LuckyCharm]

Still 300,000 samples still left to farm for my clan. Really though.. we have a full 1000 members, but it's not like they all play daily. Leaving the rest of us to pick up the slack. Which isn't on at all. Try telling 1000 people that it's worth their time spending hours farming for something and you'll have a bad time. 

Even with increased droprates, hours of farming for a large amount of players really doesn't get them to work together for anything but resenting DE. As for me, even if I were to leave clan and make my own, I still have 3k samples after 3+ years of play. I refuse to go and farm hours on hours to get something for a weapon I don't even really want. 

[ograzzt]

56 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

In an effort to address the issue of people not noticing the movement of The Kuva Fortress, we have made the loop completion time odd rather than a 24 hour cycle. Players who were logging in around the same daily time found that the Kuva Fortress would always be roughly in the same position, and was restricting the variety of Kuva Siphon missions available.

Wait, so mission variety is important afterall? But only not with Hema. I love double standarts.

[Naskoni]

48 minutes ago, Doc-Orange said:

Did you mention that DE closed the main feedback thread about this issue? Link to closing post

In my opinion this issue is not solved with closing threads!

[DE]Danielle asked " If any of you missed Devstream #85, Steve commented on the Hema resource requirements and your feedback after its release in 19.5: The Glast Gambit.[...]" I don't think that missing the Devstream is the reason for 178 pages of mostly negative posts. Its the fact that some of us are not satisfied with DE's current acting.

It would be so easy - and what me concerned is that the easy solution is not used. This is fodder for some conspiracy theories like soft paywalls, pay2win...

 

Well, that's basically along the lines of:

"We heard that you are STILL not willing to farm mutagen samples even after we told you to suck it up. How about just shut up then"

[(XBOX)DeluxeKnight831]

40 minutes ago, The_Doc said:

Yeah I recommend not giving them any reason to close this one. Let's keep devbashing and insults to 0 and just post our throughts.

why keep this open when their minds have been made ?

i am extremely disappointed in DE . i already lost all faith in them last year but this just makes me sick to my stomach. 

[notlamprey]

1 minute ago, (Xbox One)DeluxeKnight831 said:

why keep this open when their minds have been made ?

Because we're a community here, and I think it would be a disservice to DE and to the players if we let this go so easily.

If we give up on asking for change now, the players will be directly harmed - I'm thinking of our console brethren, and of more casual players on all platforms. DE will suffer as well, because they would be getting a pass on poor decision-making that hurts the game. We have to steer them away from a course that will hurt not just us, but them as well.

[Naskoni]

Just now, notlamprey said:

Because we're a community here, and I think it would be a disservice to DE and to the players if we let this go so easily.

If we give up on asking for change now, the players will be directly harmed - I'm thinking of our console brethren, and of more casual players on all platforms. DE will suffer as well, because they would be getting a pass on poor decision-making that hurts the game. We have to steer them away from a course that will hurt not just us, but them as well.

I'm not sure how can we possibly speak with someone that has his hands on his ears and goes "La-la-la-la! Can't heeaaar yoouuu!"

[Jfalz]

All this just for some mediocre weapon in game that has 250+ other weapons to choose from.  

[(XBOX)DeluxeKnight831]

4 minutes ago, notlamprey said:

Because we're a community here, and I think it would be a disservice to DE and to the players if we let this go so easily.

If we give up on asking for change now, the players will be directly harmed - I'm thinking of our console brethren, and of more casual players on all platforms. DE will suffer as well, because they would be getting a pass on poor decision-making that hurts the game. We have to steer them away from a course that will hurt not just us, but them as well.

They aren't even listening . All they care about is their money. nothing else . think they care about us vets ? if they did a lot of stuff wouldve been implemented by now . as someone already said the new patch notes dont even show anything being done about the drop rates of mutagen samples. that alone should tell you all this is pointless 

[(PSN)CactusButtons]

1 hour ago, Doc-Orange said:

I'm a one/two person clan. After >1300h of gameplay I have below 500.

I'm in a 4 man clan myself, 3 only jump on during events and after prime releases. Throw a resource booster on, grab Nekros n jump in the derelict. Preferably ODD or ODS as they're endless so u won't have to build so much keys. Have a speed nova on ODD to help speed up the process. Pretty sure farming Ember then trinity is the reason I have over 10k myself with just over 2700 hrs played. Also farming Axi E1's on 2-3 hr runs of ODS.

[PhiZero]

I can say a lot of [censored] on their community relations over the past two months, but it clearly doesn't matter from both developer and community reaction. 

After recent statements from DE on the forums, dev stream, and podcast, personally not going to spend anymore money on Warframe. (Except the collector statues, unfortunately fragile but worth collecting.) Don't get me wrong, I'll still play Warframe from time to time, I'm just no longer willing to backup any of DE's design choices.

They could have cut the research costs, but they have stated that they don't want to devalue the effort that clans put into the Hema, which happened because they dropped the bomb and let it fester for over half a month. They can increase the drop rates, but the damage has already been done to everyone not in a 100+ clan. They could even tie faction resources to actual factions rather than planets, (ex. Infestation outbreaks, Dark Sectors, Invasions would drop corresponding samples) but most likely won't happen.

Looking back on it, there's no reason to stir up such a large fuss over a single weapon. If DE wants the Hema research controversy to be the new standard for both Warframe and its community interaction, good for them - I have a Diablo and Black Desert itch that I should attend to...

[k05h]

7 hours ago, The_Doc said:

Too bad all previous mutagen sample items would become more than trivial... but that's what happens when you let one single item dictate the value of a resource.

Not only this but farming for mutagen samples in ODD creates an artificial inflation for other rare ressources.

From my mutagen sample farming I have more than 1000 neurodes and almost 400 orokin cells. And I will not talk about almost 10 million nano spores.

These numbers all go into the metrics when DE is creating the next weapon or warframe that should be used as a ressource sink. 

Edited January 12, 2017 by k05h

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

I have purchased the prime accessory pack since volt prime.

 With the latest Dev Stream I will no longer spend anymore of my money on this game. They have lost my confidence. I no longer trust the devs in thier inept decision making skills. I will not recommend this game. This game has become a money pit. DE is blinded with the arrogance of thier short term success. No longer are they about the players, rather thier bottom line. It was fun when it was fun,  no longer. 

Edited January 12, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[Tyrian3k]

Well, guess the Hema is a weapon I'm not going to bother getting until I get enough samples from doing Akkad or other Eris missions.

[Xiusa]

54 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

I have purchased the prime accessory pack since volt prime.

 With the latest Dev Stream I will no longer spend anymore of my money on this game. They have lost my confidence. I no longer trust the devs in thier inept decision making skills. I will not recommend this game. This game has become a money pit. DE is blinded with the arrogance of thier short term success. No longer are they about the players, rather thier bottom line. It was fun when it was fun,  no longer. 

This has to be a joke right

[(PSN)CactusButtons]

57 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

I have purchased the prime accessory pack since volt prime.

 With the latest Dev Stream I will no longer spend anymore of my money on this game. They have lost my confidence. I no longer trust the devs in thier inept decision making skills. I will not recommend this game. This game has become a money pit. DE is blinded with the arrogance of thier short term success. No longer are they about the players, rather thier bottom line. It was fun when it was fun,  no longer. 

If you spent that much time playing your % of your clan should have enough (granite the rest put there part in) The cost of mutagen samples for hema research is not hard to come by give it you have active players in your clan. If your trying to run a mountain clan with inactives, well that's a problem n DE is trying to fix it. Players that don't partake in the clans researching are a waste of your clan space. Moon clans should have less of a problem with it then ghost. A moon clan of 100 active players only needs 5000 mutagen samples from each player (not difficult). The more active players the less mutagen samples per player. If anything DE is helping you to clear out your inactive players if your high enough rank in your clan (which u should already be doing anyway). Trying to run a mountain clan full of inactives is pointless, same goes for moon clans. Hints "Clan" 500 Tenno moon clan then 1,000 mutagen samples per clan member. That can be farmed in less than 24 hrs of play. Y u think it hasn't been changed. Because it's reasonable for the clans to come up with rather than 1 person doing the work. Ppl complained about doing all the work well here is DE's answer.

[Volinus7]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)CactusButtons said:

If you spent that much time playing your % of your clan should have enough (granite the rest put there part in) The cost of mutagen samples for hema research is not hard to come by give it you have active players in your clan. If your trying to run a mountain clan with inactives, well that's a problem n DE is trying to fix it. Players that don't partake in the clans researching are a waste of your clan space. Moon clans should have less of a problem with it then ghost. A moon clan of 100 active players only needs 5000 mutagen samples from each player (not difficult). The more active players the less mutagen samples per player. If anything DE is helping you to clear out your inactive players if your high enough rank in your clan (which u should already be doing anyway). Trying to run a mountain clan full of inactives is pointless, same goes for moon clans. Hints "Clan" 500 Tenno moon clan then 1,000 mutagen samples per clan member. That can be farmed in less than 24 hrs of play. Y u think it hasn't been changed. Because it's reasonable for the clans to come up with rather than 1 person doing the work. Ppl complained about doing all the work well here is DE's answer.

What is this... Internet Explorer?

[Ditto132]

1 hour ago, k05h said:

Not only this but farming for mutagen samples in ODD creates an artificial inflation for other rare ressources.

From my mutagen sample farming I have more than 1000 neurodes and almost 400 orokin cells. And I will not talk about almost 10 million nano spores.

These numbers all go into the metrics when DE is creating the next weapon or warframe that should be used as a ressource sink. 

Interesting point you have there.

IMO, I would come up a solution using KISS(Keep it simple, stupid) principle.
Overly complex solution would just become like DRM that is trying to fix one problem but also create additional problems...

But since DE still insist on not changing the requirement, Mutagen Sample dropping in bundle of ~5-8 would be a good start to try out.

P.S. Hmm would the cost of future research be re-evaluated when players stopped farming for it after obtaining the necessary amount? Since the stockpile would mostly be depleted.

[(PSN)CactusButtons]

13 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

What is this... Internet Explorer?

Couldn't tell you as I'm not able to see what your using to view this

[Volinus7]

2 hours ago, (PS4)CactusButtons said:

Couldn't tell you as I'm not able to see what your using to view this

Thank you captain obvious, but you have to fly faster to catch up with everyone in this thread.

You've just stated obvious things that everyone went against it in the first place and the conversation already passed those points long time ago. 

Edited January 12, 2017 by Volinus7

[(PSN)CactusButtons]

7 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

Thank you captain obvious, but you have to fly faster to catch up with everyone in this thread.

Maybe I'll slow down so they can catch up. I have my ghost clan covered alone. Not y I suggest stop complaining, more as you want ppl to contribute well here is DE's answer. So there u go

[DoomFruit]

If decreasing the hema costs "devalues the effort" of a bunch of idiots grinding their arses off for what is quite frankly a massively unreasonable research cost, increasing the drop rate would devalue all the other mutagen sample-requiring items - pretty much all of which are superior to the hema anyway.

Also, I still don't see how making the hema cost more reasonable would "devalue" anything. It costs 10x EVERYTHING ELSE PUT TOGETHER. This is not reasonable. It's a massive outlier. The only thing getting devalued here is the credibility of those making excuses that this is normal and acceptable.

And it's not as if the excess can't be refunded. We know damn well that DE has the ability to log item expenditure and to refund in mass quantities via the use of scripts.

[Liminal]

3 hours ago, k05h said:

Not only this but farming for mutagen samples in ODD creates an artificial inflation for other rare ressources.

From my mutagen sample farming I have more than 1000 neurodes and almost 400 orokin cells. And I will not talk about almost 10 million nano spores.

These numbers all go into the metrics when DE is creating the next weapon or warframe that should be used as a ressource sink. 

I hadn't thought of that but it makes perfect sense. If MS are so rare, it's obvious you'll end up with a ridiculous number of neurodes and cells. Does anyone remember when neurodes were rare? :P

[Darksouls40k]

You ppl are so focused on the research cost u dont see the obvious... This whole high cost on research is just bad design, if u want a fair system its very simple u put the weight on production cost instead of research... Endgame players will still need to meet the requirements DE wants them to farm ....

If the plan of DE was to make high end players accept farming alot more than high productions costs by deflecting the blame to clan inwars or segregating heavy grinding players from the rest then GJ thats exactly what their design does !!!

Just another obvious design mistake by DE nothing new...

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

6 hours ago, Xiusa said:

This has to be a joke right

your trolling right? oh wait..no your one of the 26 million registered losers..lol I will not be trolled by a loser or elitist devs that call thier players/customers losers or devs that dont play thier own game, rather they are there just for a paycheck. 

 

Edited January 12, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74