Reddit v. Forums

[Kyronz]

Reddit is much better then the forums if you are after information.

[AtroSpiker]

43 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Well, here, let me try this: 

 

The Devs, in themselves as private individuals, seem to be really lovely, cheerful, creative people, and I wish them absolutely the best! However, the Devs in their professional capacity as game developers are relentlessly screwing up and burning the goodwill of the community, and they really, really need to address this and pull up.

Recently, they have:

Messed with game balance and the player trade economy by introducing Riven mods, a move which also means that Damage 3.0 is going to be damned near impossible to introduce due to exactly the same reasoning as Steve has given for not fixing the Hema requirements, i.e. it wouldn't be fair to people who already have it/them.
Released a rather buggy and lacklustre quest which screwed with people's Alignment, and then led right into a poorly explained and equally buggy new game mode where players have to grind pretty hard for the new 'frame.
This new 'frame then immediately opened us up to what could have been a neat new Event, except it too was unexplained and seemed pretty buggy. The outcome of this event was/is a rather lazily done copy and paste. There is no cure in sight for the disease, but I hope there will be some kind of conclusion for it, because my favourite 'frame is still locked firmly in the fridge.
While all of this is going on, the newest Clan research weapon costs literally ten times as much to research as all prior research in the Bio Lab combined, using a material which most players don't have much of because it really only drops in the Derelict, and naturally (i.e. without Boosters and farming 'frames) drops at a rate of less than ten or twenty per mission, while the requirement scales to the thousands. This is also encouraging some really toxic clan behaviour like kicking loads of people out so you can downsize, forming external shell clans at Ghost size to do the research for clanners, or outright charging Plat for clan membership. This is not ideal.
While all of this is going on, DE have been on vacation, and that's fine! They totally have the right to take some time off, everyone has the right. However, the timing of it was really unfortunate and now they have some fires to put out.
Steve responded to this by kinda half-admitting that the Hema research cost was poorly considered, but said that it's not getting changed because it wouldn't be fair to the people who went and grinded it. Lads. Lads, this is not a good response. This is the equivalent of saying that you made a mistake, but now it's too late and everyone is just going to have to suffer because it's too entrenched to fix it.



So, yes. The devs are nice people, and I hope they had a really nice time on vacation. However, equally as much, I wish that they had not made such a miscalculation before going on vacation, and I really hope that they will now take feedback into consideration, and fix some of this.

Thank you.

You pretty much covered everything I wanted to say. Thank you. =/

[Smilomaniac]

So, who people who aren't completely in on the whole forum thing, here's the brief explanation;

Companies/sites set their own rules regarding their forum and you are obligated to follow them with no recourse against the consequences if you don't, freedom of speech does not apply as it's not a public forum like certain other places on the internet.
The Warframe Reddit is far less restricted, so pretty much anything relevant goes. Here, you can expect some topics to get deleted even without a word about it, such as spoilers that are meant to be special for a bit longer, such as the Nidus patch and some details regarding it (such as when people first noticed the cyst).

In my personal opinion, there's at least one moderator here who has just a bit of an itchy trigger finger, but it's nowhere near as bad as other places I've posted. You won't get banned or warned here because the mods disagree with you, or because they feel like doing it for kicks.

An additional detail is that you can discuss sensitive information on the reddit without fear of getting your account perma-banned. Whether you like it or not, DE owns all accounts and no matter how much money you've put into it, it will never be yours, which means they can ban you for any reason they deem fit. As it stands, you have to go pretty far out of your way to end up in such a situation, so it's generally regarded as an extreme circumstance.
Just remember that politics and social controversies are red flags no matter where you go - Avoid these topics at all costs, even if there's nothing more to it than opinions, people will go nuts about it.

Basically, if you keep your cool and try to keep things civil, there's nothing at all to worry about. It's fine to be upset and write an angry post or topic, just don't call anyone any names, including mods, devs and other players.
If you tend to lash out once in a while, then Reddit is more suitable for that, which doesn't make it a bad place, just somewhere that you can do some cathartic posting.

 

[bejuizb]

As someone who's been on the forums for a long, long time, and on reddit for the past few months, I personally enjoy reddit a bit more. Forums have gotten to a point where posts are generally expected to have a few types of responses: sarcastic "don't like it don't play, give me your stuff before you go" posts, fanboy "devs work very hard and we should not say anything wrong about them and if you do you're wrong and you deserve to stop playing" posts, and the occasional good "this is a good point and here is what we can do to make it better" type of post. 

Funnily enough, forums are fine as long as you avoid discussion topics. Fanart and RP and fan zone are nifty and generally have more of a community than the pit of feedback and general discussion. 

Fair warning, I'm a jaded veteran player, both here on the forums and in-game. I do have bias. 

Reddit has been a circle jerk, without a doubt, but I find it to be more witty and blunt, which I enjoy personally. Either way, it's not a clear pick between either. Both have merits and detriments. 

[Tesseract7777]

@BornWithTeeth Well said, I agree with everything expressed in your post. 

[OniDax]

Reddit is better for airing your opinions and feelings, whether constructive or not. Forums are better for airing constructive criticism. At the same time, you're more likely to get criticized for negative (constructive) criticism on the forums than you are on reddit. So, if you have negative, but still constructive, feedback, and you dont like having people bash that feedback, Reddit is better. If you want to have a place where you can let people know how you feel about something DE does, Reddit is better for you. Because if you feel bad about something DE does, then you can't just vent your negative feelings and frustrations on the forums. You can on Reddit. On the forums, the only time you can let people know you dont like something or you're angry about something, is if you also offer some solution for that. The only time you're really allowed to show your feelings here is if you like something that DE does. In other words, on the Forums, all criticism must be constructive (i.e. offering your idea on how something should be improved); all praise can be nonconstructive or constructive.

At the same time, on the Forums, it seems like the majority of people prefer praise of DE and bash negative opinions. On Reddit, seems like there are more people who prefer criticism of DE and bash positive opinions. I'm not sure if that's actually the case, but that's been my experience with the two communities. While certainly, Reddit isnt mostly negative, but it's much more forgiving if you just dont like something about DE or Warframe, and you arent required to have an idea about how to make it better.

So, to generalize, I'd say this: if you generally think DE is doing a good job, then the forums are for you. If you think they aren't doing a good job, then Reddit is for you. That's just based on my observations of and interactions with the Warframe Reddit and Forum communities.

[ChuckMaverick]

1 hour ago, AntoineFlemming said:

On the forums, the only time you can let people know you dont like something or you're angry about something, is if you also offer some solution for that.

I'd say that's it's also ok even if you don't offer a solution (not everyone is good at game design, after all) as long as you're clear about why you don't like something and aren't just saying "it sucks!".

[-Anomaly-]

9 hours ago, (PS4)Akuma_Asura_ said:

Do you believe warframe Reddit is somehow a better environment for discussion then warframe forums ? Between all the censorship & knights or is Reddit just as bad as the forums ? I don't have much experience on Reddit but a certain youtuber did mention this so I was wondering 

Ps. I mean we all come on to the forums to speak about a game we love & we only give feedback because we want to keep loving this game. The forums are a place where we can be heard. There's been a lot of complaints/criticism lately more than usual & with that there's been a lot more ignoring on the devs side , that alone is dangerous.

I know me personally log in and log out just for the login rewards , I won't speak for anyone else. I appreciate the openness of the devs when it comes to experimenting with new systems , but you have to flesh them out completely. 

I no longer use this forum because of the censorship and useless rules. The forum feels like it is being managed by a totalitarian dictatorship. ie. Cant say anything that offends. Can't give any negative feedback. Can't say anything negative about DE. Can't be honest because it will hurt someones feelings or ruffle some feathers.

 

And as such, I refuse to give this company more of my money until they totally revamp their forum strategy and remove the heavy burdensome moderation tactics they employ when someone speaks out against them as a company.

Like right now I have a 75% off coupon sitting on my account, that's going to go to complete waste because I am so ticked off. I have also sworn off all canadian companies (DE is based in Ontario iirc) because of this.

Its getting ridiculous because now I am getting to the point that I feel targeted and if/when I post on here, if I say something that goes against the grain, I will be banned. That's not something a user/customer should feel and this is definitely NOT how a company should treat its customers. I guess the winds of change are blowing and the new norm is to now poop on your customers when they say something that hurts your feelings. :(

Guess i'll just move to console (offline only) gaming now.

Thanks for making me feel this way DE...

[BornWithTeeth]

Mate.....boycotting all Canadian companies because you are annoyed with DE is completely irrational. Hell, I'm annoyed with DE right now, and I still just want them to stop making bad, short-sighted decisions about the game. I'm not being all "Well, screw Canada then!"

[ChuckMaverick]

10 minutes ago, -Anomaly- said:

Cant say anything that offends.

Why do you want to say anything that offends?

You can give feedback without making offensive comments.

[Tanner_Lindberg]

this thread pretty much sums up why very few people take the forums seriously soooo many white knights and fanboys it hurts XD 

[Unus]

  I'll be honest, the big reason I don't like Reddit as much as I like the forums is the rabid discontinuity of  day to day thought and the inability  to salvage a topic once it is buried neath the great dog pile. Here, it's easier to get folks long-term attention and maintain a chosen niche, rather then have to constantly spray similar topics everywhere in the hope that one will take or to continue a "fallen" conversation. Acourse, being a consistent inhabitant of an "idea zone" over in the fan section who likes to dabble in all topics save for the feed-back section (those poor responders), I might be in a significantly puny minority.

 

   On the nicer side, I love how immediate and genuine the responses are on Reddit,  once you filter past the memetics, arsebags, and the self-esteem deficient.

[Eldnacpeek]

3 hours ago, MrFoxAos said:

this thread pretty much sums up why very few people take the forums seriously soooo many white knights and fanboys it hurts XD 

 

I don't see a single person in this entire thread fitting either of those categories and am having sincere trouble trying to understand where you're finding them. Though, to each his own I suppose. 

[Flamingfighter]

They're honestly the same. Reddit, though, has the con that people can be more directly insulting to a person, but it has a plus that it's the more aesthetically pleasing of the two, so that you can watch as people strawman your argument down so that you neatly fit into 1 of the 2 arbitrary sides of an issue.

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

1 hour ago, -Anomaly- said:

The forum feels like it is being managed by a totalitarian dictatorship. ie. Cant say anything that offends.

You would have been instantly perma-banned and visited by the state police if that were true. And yeah S#&$ting on people without restrictions is kinda seen as unconstructive and is manipulative. Its the basis of griefing which is why there's no name and shame or squad kicking either.

[Kefirno]

Although I have already seen one game being killed by reddit (official forums were disabled and developers were gathering feedback only from that

cloaca), I would prefer it over warframe forums. And that's why:

1. Janitors here are the saltiest I've ever seen and can easily ban you for constructive criticism of developers' incompetence.

2. DE doesn't care about your feedback so wherever you leave it they'll never read it.

[Letter13]

Both places have their pros and cons.

Regarding complaints of overmoderation on these forums, yes we (the moderators) do sometimes get a bit overzealous, but we never hide or remove threads/posts or ban users because of the opinions or feedback being expressed. What we do remove posts for, is when they're made with vitriol and in a manner that does not abide by the forum's rules (i.e. filled to the brim with profanity, insulting the developers, threats of violence/harm towards the developers, etc). What we ask players to provide is constructive feedback in a civil and respectful manner--and negative feedback is by far the best feedback that can be given (provided it's given in a respectful and civil manner). It isn't hard to follow the forum rules, and doing so is the best way to have your opinions heard both by other players and by DE staff.

 

And, as always, if you have questions about a moderators' actions, it's always best to message the moderator in question. And if you have complaints about a moderator's actions, you can contact a member of DE's community staff (such as [DE]Danielle) or file a forum report or a support ticket regarding the matter.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Letter13
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