For the love of god, please do something about Mirage + Synoid Simulor

[PatternistSlave]

13 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

I'm Rank 22

Then you're full of it.  There is NO WAY you're seeing Mirage (any version) in any missions you're regularly doing, much less one that's taking kills away from you.  I was just helping a new player clear star chart today.  No Mirage.  Did sortie like I do every day.  No Mirage.  You're making up stories, friend.

[Currilicious]

13 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

A point has been made, a counter-point has been provided, both of those points have been argued back and forth to the best of each party's abilities. That's a debate, even if it is a poor one filled with backtracking and saying the same thing over and over. If you don't like the formality of "debate" we can just call it an argument.

That's still implying that Warframe currently has no flaws, still hard to believe. There must me ONE thing in the game that you don't like? 

In any case, the existence of this thread shows that there are people who want to see the Miragulor build gone, your opinion here isn't the only angle.

Yes, I do have a problem with all my kills being stolen, so does the OP of this thread, anyone agreeing with his opinion here, and a lot of people out playing the game that aren't in this thread but agree. Just because you don't mind, doesn't mean that other people have no right to mind.

Well now you're just dismissing opposing opinions because they disagree with yours. I've very clearly established my point that having to leave and find new games over and over, even in cases where you started the game and a Miragulor joins, is an unfair hassle that doesn't reliably get actual results, and Recruiting and solo also may not provide a solution all the time. Can I please see an actual response to this other than "you're whining"? I actually want a counter-argument to be made here so I can continue this.

Randoms you join won't demand how you play because you are already in the squad with a build you can't change in-mission. People on the forums and in general chat CAN voice their opinions on what needs to happen to the game, because it's their game as well as yours. And they aren't directing them at you, they're directing them at DE, so that DE can figure out what sort of problem there is. I don't really need you to agree with me, I need DE to see my point. 

I call you entitled because you expect something of other people, that is to say you expect them to just deal with your OP build without bothering you, even though it's bothering them. You need to provide a response other than "I'm not entitled".

In a way I too am entitled, but in this case the entitlement is fair. When I play Warframe, I am entitled to a good time, no? As is every other player. There are plenty of fun builds a Miragulor user could use if it was nerfed, so if Miragulor was indeed nerfed then they would still be able to have the fun they're entitled to, through another build. If Miragulor is not nerfed, players who want to have fun through getting kills, playing the actual game etc. cannot have the fun they're entitled to, regardless of how they play. Yes they could abort and try to find another squad, but there is a very good chance that there won't be another public squad with space on that node, or the node may be too hard to solo (eg Sortie, T4 Void, endgame defence, most interceptions), or Recruiting chat may not yield results as it often does not. We are all entitled to enjoying Warframe, but allowing one class of person to do what they want at the expense of others has frequently been shown throughout history to be a bad idea.

When Ash and Saryn and Mag and Mesa were reworked/nerfed, their fans didn't stop playing the game outright. They found other builds, and are now enjoying themselves another way. The same would happen with a Miragulor nerf. 

Nothing to "debate" about lol. The solution is in place. Either you use it or don't. If you don't then live with it. I'm okay with using that solution so that I won't have anything from someone else's fun. It's really that simple buy now for only $49.99.

You keep saying you have problems with things. And the solution is there. But you refuse to use it. Instead you want a solution that takes something away from people, across the board. Even from those that didn't cross you. Well I don't know but that doesn't sound too right to me. Perhaps I'm not entitled enough eh?

Dismissing things is normal especially things that are so darn trivial. That button again. Get yours now Oh wait, it's free! That's right folks. That button you can click with no additional costs, especially to people that aren't even bothering you but will get the nerf hammer anyway if you had your way. Call now at...

Of course you play games for a good time. By using the evergreen (or red) button you get to join another pub with no fuss! No need to nerf poor lil Jimmy with his pew-pew-o'death or Katie's favorite fashion frame Mirage. Unless of course, you think you are too important for the button.

Oh I forgot since I don't complain about trivial things, I'm not as important, neither is Jimmy or Katie above because we *gasp* use the evergreen (or red) button to opt out of some random elements... in a random public game! OMG, who would've thought we are doing it wrong.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Currilicious

[Chipputer]

4 hours ago, PatternistSlave said:

Then you're full of it.  There is NO WAY you're seeing Mirage (any version) in any missions you're regularly doing, much less one that's taking kills away from you.  I was just helping a new player clear star chart today.  No Mirage.  Did sortie like I do every day.  No Mirage.  You're making up stories, friend.

I see at least one Mirage every day when I actually do public missions. Heck, I'll see them in Sorties where the enemies resist elements still using Simulor and Mirage because it's powerful enough to completely bypass the enemy resistances.

I do enjoy seeing someone telling someone else that their subjective experience couldn't have possibly happened because their own subjective experience doesn't match up with theirs, though. Particularly when it's based on an overall meaningless thing as Master Rank. Good on you for that chuckle.

[--RV--LadySpiderwick]

Don't use a real condition like cancer that actually kills people in your comparison please. Also if you don't like it than don't be in the squad people play what they like, are you going to complain about a rework- bladestorm ash too? Both the Simulor does what it was designed to do and HoM is supposed to CLONE Mirage, and the Simulor is supposed to combine after 2 or more balls. It might be annoying but I haven't seen the combo as much as I used to in pub missions.

[PatternistSlave]

4 hours ago, Chipputer said:

I see at least one Mirage every day when I actually do public missions. Heck, I'll see them in Sorties where the enemies resist elements still using Simulor and Mirage because it's powerful enough to completely bypass the enemy resistances.

I do enjoy seeing someone telling someone else that their subjective experience couldn't have possibly happened because their own subjective experience doesn't match up with theirs, though. Particularly when it's based on an overall meaningless thing as Master Rank. Good on you for that chuckle.

I'm not living under a rock.  She was this "stupid OP destroying every mission" I think I'd see her.  Hell.  I'd be using her.  You're full of it and you know you are.  What missions?  Seriously.  No one wants to answer.  What missions are these?  Is she the best frame for Defense?  Nope.  That would be Frost.  Is the best frame for Excavation?  Frost again.  MD?  Frost.  Best frame for Spy?  Haha.  Survival?  Yeah right.  You've played Inaros.  Best frame for Interception?  Nova wins that with Rhino and I'd even take Nyx over Mirage.  Best frame for Assassinate?  Maybe a few of them she could cheese, but what decent weapon can't.  Frost or Nova are going to be better in most of them.

That only leaves Exterminate.  So the absolute easiest, joke mission type.  Maybe.  Maybe she'd beat out Ember at higher levels.  One.  That one mission type where most could breeze through with any frame anyway.  I sure never bother taking a specific frame to exterminates aside from Ember, but I'll grant.  Mirage has one use.  Better see if we can't change that, huh?

[YUNoJump]

7 hours ago, PatternistSlave said:

I'm not living under a rock.  She was this "stupid OP destroying every mission" I think I'd see her.  Hell.  I'd be using her.  You're full of it and you know you are. 

This is just hilariously arrogant. "I haven't seen it so it doesn't exist." Have you seen the back of your own head outside of a photo? if YOU haven't seen it then it musn't exist, no matter what people say. Maybe you've seen photos but they could be doctored.

7 hours ago, PatternistSlave said:

best frame for Defense? Is the best frame for Excavation? Best frame for Spy?

It's got absolutely nothing to do with being the "best" frame. It's got to do with being obnoxious and getting in everyon'es way. Frost doesn't get in peoples' way, he helps his team by providing cover. Stealth frames don't get in the way of people who want to do normal stealth, they simply provide an easier alternative. Miragulor just zaps everything in a room and gives you a seizure.

17 hours ago, PatternistSlave said:

Then you're full of it.  There is NO WAY you're seeing Mirage (any version) in any missions you're regularly doing, much less one that's taking kills away from you.  I was just helping a new player clear star chart today.  No Mirage.  Did sortie like I do every day.  No Mirage.  You're making up stories, friend.

Literally search my profile in the "find players" menu. My rank is on public record for all to see, you claiming its wrong because you said so is just funny. May be hard to hear but you are not the ultimate, omniscient and omnipotent Purveyor of all things Warframe. Sometimes things happen to other people that don't happen to you, I can't believe you don't understand that. Please keep arguing because your deranged perspective is like a drug to me.

[PatternistSlave]

8 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

This is just hilariously arrogant. "I haven't seen it so it doesn't exist." Have you seen the back of your own head outside of a photo? if YOU haven't seen it then it musn't exist, no matter what people say. Maybe you've seen photos but they could be doctored.

Literally search my profile in the "find players" menu. My rank is on public record for all to see, you claiming its wrong because you said so is just funny. May be hard to hear but you are not the ultimate, omniscient and omnipotent Purveyor of all things Warframe. Sometimes things happen to other people that don't happen to you, I can't believe you don't understand that. Please keep arguing because your deranged perspective is like a drug to me.

You expect me to believe that not only are you for no reason whatsoever constantly doing high level Exterminates.  Not stealthed for Focus which you would have to do solo and would make sense.  But on public.  So you want help.  But not too much help.  And there is this constant stream of Mirages ruining your good time.  That's what I'm supposed to believe?  Cause I don't.  It's ludicrous that you expect anyone to be dumb enough to believe that.  This thread is an attention whoring troll.  You're a phony.

[SkadiNyx]

On 15/01/2017 at 1:56 PM, YUNoJump said:

Fun and loot aren't mutually exclusive. If you run through a mission killing everything yourself and grabbing all the loot, the exact same loot is going to drop as when someone prevents you from getting any kills. Loot may be the only reason that you play, but many others play just for the fun of shooting etc, and I imagine the vast majority of people play for the fun of killing combined with getting loot for stuff, who would probably want to actually interact with enemies in a mission.

To be honest, I've never seen anyone complaining about someone taking all the kills in a mission. Maybe some people are too " Shy " to say that it bothers them, but I assume it's mostly because they don't care and they're just trying to rush. 

On 15/01/2017 at 1:56 PM, YUNoJump said:

If you are joining a pub mission then there's a good chance that you will have no idea what loadout your squadmates have on. In premade squads it's valid to say that you build trash and have a Miragulor user (or any powerful build) trash everything, but if you join a public mission then chances are you either don't care about the levelling gear you've equipped, or you want to level up said gear. I imagine people would generally make active attempts to level their gear rather than just leaving it on the backburner 24/7, so if they join on someone who takes all the kills, they are effectively levelling slower, as co-op assists just give a portion of the XP to you in equal measure for all of your items, rather than your kills, which give more to the item that made the kill, and then some to your Warframe/other stuff.

Overall, if you care about the gear you've brought you'd want to have your fair share of kills, and if you just want your all-unranked build to be carried by a fully levelled build user then it's a bit of a gamble to join a pub mission, particularly if its higher level. Even if you just bring levelled gear to every mission, there's still the factor that you came there to enjoy the game, so you'd want to get some kills. Unless you're solely there for loot and don't enjoy the shooty-parkour-magic gameplay, which as I said above, probably isn't a massive group.

That's why I always bring at least one good Warframe/Weapon with me. But for example, if I have my maxed Ember and three sh*tty weapons and someone else can do the job, I just won't toggle my 4, so I can get more XP on my levelling weapons. 

On 15/01/2017 at 1:56 PM, YUNoJump said:

Even if you started the lobby and the Miragulor user joined during the mission? even if you've already spent some time in the mission? If you join a lobby and find a Miragulor I can almost understand someone having to just leave, but if you're hosting your own lobby you'd expect to be able to stay in it while still enjoying yourself. 

People can't join a mission after something like 5 minutes. So yes, if I'm in a game and I REALLY don't want to play with a Miragulor, I'll just leave and find another squad. But playing with someone taking all the kills is not a big deal to me, really, so I'll probably just do the mission and disband once it's finished. 

On 15/01/2017 at 1:56 PM, YUNoJump said:

There are plenty of ways for both to be nerfed, or for Miragulor itself to be nerfed, that wouldn't "kill" Mirage. Everyone says that every rework/nerf ever "kills" the frame, but people still play Ash/Saryn/Mag/Volt/Carrier/Nekros/Mesa/Trinity/etc. People find new ways to play them that aren't cheap and move on.

That's not my opinion, but maybe. I've not seen a Saryn or a Mesa for ages, for example. 

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

After nerfing Miragulor, I think we should

• Nerf Frost because on defense missions he is always throwing up a bubble, blocking shots and slowing down the kill fest that would otherwise happen.  Or just ban the bubble until wave 40 when it might come in handy.
• Nerf Ivara because she can cheese any spy mission.  And any survival mission.
• Nerf Nova slow ability - no reason defense missions should take so darn long when we can blow through  them quickly.  Spova is ok.
• Nerf Valkyr- an invincibility mode? really?
• Nerf Banshee - Soundquaking IO and stealing all the kills.. wheres the fun.  And Sonar clearly has to go - no one should be able to do that much damage.
• Nerf Ember - because after we nerf Miragulor, she will be killing everything sub level 30 with zero effort.
• Nerf Equinox - because regardless of nerf or no nerf to Miragulor, Eq will outkill Mirage and Ember. Combined.
• Nerf Loki - people keep playing loki on capture missions and get to extraction after killing the capture target before others have left the spawn room.
• Nerf Volt - that rat is always speedboosting at the wrong time - especially in spy missions. Unless I'm Ivara in which case I don't care.
• Nerf Excal - blinding everything constantly and one-shotting them - where's the fun?
• Nerf titania - zipping around like an annoying fly.
• Nerf Limbo - better yet, put him and the rift by himself and let him stay there trolling himself.

I would add Trinity, Ash etc but they all got the nerf bat already from whiny little babies. For that matter, volt and mirage already got nerfed once.  

Actually what they should do, is simply REMOVE all frames except Rhino - but they should probably nerf rhino skin and stomp a bit first.  That way we could all be a slow tank marching inexorably toward extraction.  Or maybe those that want that could just go play Halo.

On a more serious note, If you want a team you can control - there is the recruiting chat.  And Clans.  And XBox friends.  And party chat.  And Invite Only. And Solo.  etc etc.  If you can't figure out a way to enjoy the game with mirage as she stands - either by finding a new squad, or working with her, perhaps this game is a little much for you.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2017 by (XB1)Tucker D Dawg
.

[Zookes]

This thread again.

 

Whatever your favorite frame and weapon are, they bother me very much. I ask DE to please nerf them so you do not wish to play anymore.

[Zeclem]

i want miragulor to stay so i can sit back and be lazy and get all the same rewards like that person who did all the killing.

[Toran]

Hell, I hate nerf-posts. A few likes and you get the impression that the majority is against Mirage + Simulor or whatever is the latest rage...

The truth is: the majority DOES NOT CARE or actually appreciates it and never puts a foot into the forum. It's always the "against-guys" who feel the urge to use the forum.

If you don't like what you're against, just leave the group! Do you know how often I saw this happen in over 3,000 hours of gaming in regard to Mirage with Simulor? TWICE!

Edited January 17, 2017 by Toran

[YUNoJump]

14 hours ago, PatternistSlave said:

You expect me to believe that not only are you for no reason whatsoever constantly doing high level Exterminates.  Not stealthed for Focus which you would have to do solo and would make sense. 

No I don't expect you to believe that I'm constantly doing high level exterminates out of stealth, I also don't expect you to believe that I'm farming Focus in any form because I couldn't give a crap about Focus in its current state. Where did you pull that from, I never made that claim, I simply talked about the issues in those mission types.

14 hours ago, PatternistSlave said:

But on public.  So you want help.  But not too much help.

a) Public isn't just for help, the game is designed around co-op. If Warframe had some sort of "default" mission it would be in co-op. Public is the best way to find a group, and if you can find a group that isn't terrible/wipes the map instantly then it can be fun to play as a team.

b) There's getting help with something, then there's having someone do all of what you wanted help with themself. If I were to look for help, for example if I were a much lower level player, with a mission I'd want someone with an actual quality build and good knowledge of what to do helping me, rather than a guy who just equips the meta then kills everything with no skill and nothing to teach me. 

14 hours ago, PatternistSlave said:

And there is this constant stream of Mirages ruining your good time.  That's what I'm supposed to believe?  Cause I don't.  It's ludicrous that you expect anyone to be dumb enough to believe that.

Not a CONSTANT stream, but enough to really annoy me, and also enough to really annoy many others as cited by this thread and various other discussions about Miragulor. I'm not the only person who has this issue. You can choose not to believe it if you want, but you're flattering yourself if you think all of the people arguing this point are doing it with the exclusive purpose of making you angry. Although if we were doing it for that reason then we're very successful at it so far.

14 hours ago, PatternistSlave said:

This thread is an attention whoring troll.  You're a phony.

If this thread is just here for attention whoring (hint: it isn't) then you've done a very good job of getting caught in it.

Half of your claims towards me being a "phony" are things you could very easily disprove for yourself, and the other half are just things i've experienced that you refuse to believe, because you had your own experiences that are apparently objectively representative of 25 million other peoples'. Might want to check that.

 

[ChaellExE]

4 hours ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

After nerfing Miragulor, I think we should

• Nerf Frost because on defense missions he is always throwing up a bubble, blocking shots and slowing down the kill fest that would otherwise happen.  Or just ban the bubble until wave 40 when it might come in handy.
• Nerf Ivara because she can cheese any spy mission.  And any survival mission.
• Nerf Nova slow ability - no reason defense missions should take so darn long when we can blow through  them quickly.  Spova is ok.
• Nerf Valkyr- an invincibility mode? really?
• Nerf Banshee - Soundquaking IO and stealing all the kills.. wheres the fun.  And Sonar clearly has to go - no one should be able to do that much damage.
• Nerf Ember - because after we nerf Miragulor, she will be killing everything sub level 30 with zero effort.
• Nerf Equinox - because regardless of nerf or no nerf to Miragulor, Eq will outkill Mirage and Ember. Combined.
• Nerf Loki - people keep playing loki on capture missions and get to extraction after killing the capture target before others have left the spawn room.
• Nerf Volt - that rat is always speedboosting at the wrong time - especially in spy missions. Unless I'm Ivara in which case I don't care.
• Nerf Excal - blinding everything constantly and one-shotting them - where's the fun?
• Nerf titania - zipping around like an annoying fly.
• Nerf Limbo - better yet, put him and the rift by himself and let him stay there trolling himself.

I would add Trinity, Ash etc but they all got the nerf bat already from whiny little babies. For that matter, volt and mirage already got nerfed once.  

Actually what they should do, is simply REMOVE all frames except Rhino - but they should probably nerf rhino skin and stomp a bit first.  That way we could all be a slow tank marching inexorably toward extraction.  Or maybe those that want that could just go play Halo.

On a more serious note, If you want a team you can control - there is the recruiting chat.  And Clans.  And XBox friends.  And party chat.  And Invite Only. And Solo.  etc etc.  If you can't figure out a way to enjoy the game with mirage as she stands - either by finding a new squad, or working with her, perhaps this game is a little much for you.

 

 

 

 

Most of the frames mentioned got nerfed once or more for the same reasons mentioned ... 

I didn't need or see the need to nerf but people are complaining about it, and DE sees its chance to cater (here and not anywhere else). There are better options than to nerf the game mechanics. Nerfing does solve the problem, it only weakens the mechanic on one side.  

[Charlitoooo]

Mirage Simulor hates me. Discover my miraculous tactic to avoid cheesy players!

Just quit your public game and restart.

s i m p l e  a s  t h a t.

Public games are not full of cheesy player, just sometimes it happens. So sometimes I quit and restart.

6 hours ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

After nerfing Miragulor, I think we should

• Nerf Frost because on defense missions he is always throwing up a bubble, blocking shots and slowing down the kill fest that would otherwise happen.  Or just ban the bubble until wave 40 when it might come in handy.
• Nerf Ivara because she can cheese any spy mission.  And any survival mission.
• Nerf Nova slow ability - no reason defense missions should take so darn long when we can blow through  them quickly.  Spova is ok.
• Nerf Valkyr- an invincibility mode? really?
• Nerf Banshee - Soundquaking IO and stealing all the kills.. wheres the fun.  And Sonar clearly has to go - no one should be able to do that much damage.
• Nerf Ember - because after we nerf Miragulor, she will be killing everything sub level 30 with zero effort.
• Nerf Equinox - because regardless of nerf or no nerf to Miragulor, Eq will outkill Mirage and Ember. Combined.
• Nerf Loki - people keep playing loki on capture missions and get to extraction after killing the capture target before others have left the spawn room.
• Nerf Volt - that rat is always speedboosting at the wrong time - especially in spy missions. Unless I'm Ivara in which case I don't care.
• Nerf Excal - blinding everything constantly and one-shotting them - where's the fun?
• Nerf titania - zipping around like an annoying fly.
• Nerf Limbo - better yet, put him and the rift by himself and let him stay there trolling himself.

I would add Trinity, Ash etc but they all got the nerf bat already from whiny little babies. For that matter, volt and mirage already got nerfed once.  

Actually what they should do, is simply REMOVE all frames except Rhino - but they should probably nerf rhino skin and stomp a bit first.  That way we could all be a slow tank marching inexorably toward extraction.  Or maybe those that want that could just go play Halo.

On a more serious note, If you want a team you can control - there is the recruiting chat.  And Clans.  And XBox friends.  And party chat.  And Invite Only. And Solo.  etc etc.  If you can't figure out a way to enjoy the game with mirage as she stands - either by finding a new squad, or working with her, perhaps this game is a little much for you.

 

 

 

 

 

Haha ^ this, top lol. You are right. 

If we were listening every nerf post, at the end the game would have 1 frame, 1 primary, 1 secondary and 1 melee. And now everyone is happy. 

[PatternistSlave]

1 hour ago, YUNoJump said:

No I don't expect you to believe that I'm constantly doing high level exterminates out of stealth

Then there is no issue.  The only mission Mirage is close to advantageous in is Exterminate.  That you expect to not only have the best frame for the objective, but also do all the damage is ludicrous.

1 hour ago, YUNoJump said:

things i've experienced that you refuse to believe

Because they're only in your head.  You're the only one either phony enough or crazy enough to be upset every time you see a Mirage.  You just said you don't play high level exterminates and those are the only missions it would be even close to reasonable for a Mirage to be upsetting anyone.  Any other mission?

1 hour ago, YUNoJump said:

Not a CONSTANT stream, but enough to really annoy me

Know what is a CONSTANT stream?  Enemies.  In every mission aside from exterminate.  Not a phony?  Then you're really annoyed when you have the best frame for an objective, but don't see the highest damage percentage at the results screen.  Is that what this thread is really about?  Stop pretending she's particularly good and needs nerfed.  Let's get that results screen that's upsetting you so removed.  Or I'll humor you more.  How often are you "annoy"ed by Mirage?  1 every 20 missions?  30?  So it's reasonable to you that a frame people put time and effort into and are enjoying be nerfed, not for any particular advantage it has, but because in 1 in 20 missions it annoys you slightly?

[Tsukinoki]

On 1/11/2017 at 8:10 AM, KYLoooo said:

The Difference is you actually have to aim to achieve that, in comparison to Simulor-Mirage. 

Small tip: Sonar + Ignis + spin around in circles rapidly while holding down your fire button.
The ignis hits the weakpoints for multiplied damage and you clear the entire room.
And all without aiming at all.

So no, you don't "actually have to aim to achieve that".
You just need to spin in circles while holding down the mouse button.

@ The actual topic
I honestly don't know what changes could be made that wouldn't either utterly kill the Synoid Simulor for people who don't use it with HoM, or utterly kill HoM for those who don't use the Synoid Simulor.  Hek HoM already sucks for any non-AoE weapon and I would hate to see it suck even more...
And there are lots of weapons that become stupidly strong with HoM just due to how it functions.  But without those interactions HoM would become kinda pointless.
They already nerfed it so that only 2 of the 3 clones attack, and at base only with 20% of your weapons damage which is rather lack luster, especially if you use it with any non-AoE weapon.  Even with its augment that only increases to 30% damage.
And building to have clones that can actually deal out damage severely hampers anything else the mirage could do while also hurting her duration (arguably her most important stat), which is a pretty good penalty already.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Tsukinoki

[Kylo.]

11 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

Small tip: Sonar + Ignis + spin around in circles rapidly while holding down your fire button.
The ignis hits the weakpoints for multiplied damage and you clear the entire room.
And all without aiming at all.

So no, you don't "actually have to aim to achieve that".
You just need to spin in circles while holding down the mouse button.

You said Banshee, not Ignis-Banshee. 

[Tsukinoki]

1 hour ago, KYLoooo said:

You said Banshee, not Ignis-Banshee. 

So you're saying that Banshee can't equip an ignis?
Or that any AoE weapon combined with Banshee's Sonar is invalid....because reasons?

What you said was "...you actually have to aim to achieve that..."('that' being insane damage), which I responded with one example, though there are quite a lot more, of where you don't need to aim with Banshee to clear a room with sonar.
Especially if you spam sonar a few times and get lucky enough to have overlapping weak-points.

The point I was making was that:
No, you don't have to aim to achieve massive (or as the original person you responded to put it "insane") damage (which in some cases can be many, many, many times greater than a simular+mirage) with a Sonar focused Banshee.
Which is a completely valid point.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Tsukinoki

[Currilicious]

Aim to do huge damage? What?

Ivara + any explosives?

Banshee + Ignis?

Valkyr/Volt + Telos Boltace?

Hell even if you take a Nyx + Assimilate and walk around with a Kulstar, you are effectively a one man wrecking crew.

 

3 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

I honestly don't know what changes could be made that wouldn't either utterly kill the Synoid Simulor for people who don't use it with HoM, or utterly kill HoM for those who don't use the Synoid Simulor.  Hek HoM already sucks for any non-AoE weapon and I would hate to see it suck even more...

And there are lots of weapons that become stupidly strong with HoM just due to how it functions.  But without those interactions HoM would become kinda pointless.
They already nerfed it so that only 2 of the 3 clones attack, and at base only with 20% of your weapons damage which is rather lack luster, especially if you use it with any non-AoE weapon.  Even with its augment that only increases to 30% damage.
And building to have clones that can actually deal out damage severely hampers anything else the mirage could do while also hurting her duration (arguably her most important stat), which is a pretty good penalty already.

This is correct.

The frame by itself is really below par at this point. Aside from the semi useful Prism (post nerf) and HoM that has some fun setups with certain weapons, there really is not much. Note here fun does not equate to effective, with the exception of the S. Simulor.

Putting aside the boneheads demanding a Spanish Inquisition on both the frame and weapon, a specific fix targeting this comp is needed. I think if projectile from the clones can no longer interact with that from other clones or Mirage herself, it would help. To take things further, the explosion from the orb interaction of clones should be scaled down to how normal weapons behave when fired by a clone.

Of course, if this is how it's done, the frame actually loses a niche somewhat. So it would actually make sense to give HoM a lil boost in terms of percentile of damage done by clones. I would go further and give Sleight of Hand something extra by also priming lingering projectiles fired by Mirage.

This way there is zero net gain or loss. However, it takes more player action to achieve what the current Mirage + S. Simulor could produce.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Currilicious

[-OMS-Spriggan.EX]

All of this only shows to me how Warframe ain´t a game time rewarding to me.

Even knowing that the problem itself not is Mirage neither the Simulor, but the interaction between both... Is just that the game is so very badly designed to me that the only good thing about that game is diversity (frames/equips/cosmetics/etc...) and nothing more and loses in every aspect to the other games.

Why bother if theres a lot of games that is time rewarding? Hence that´s why i stoped wasting my time complainning cause i know that DE stoped to hear the players so what´s the point to keep this thread?

[toafarmer]

Just get a Mirage and a Simulor and have fun instead of trying to ruin a frame and/or a weapon. Or stop playing public matches. IMO it is working as intended. It is not even that OP for endgame. Its like wanting to nerf ember WoF because someone used it on a lvl 10 mission.

[YUNoJump]

23 hours ago, PatternistSlave said:

Then there is no issue.  The only mission Mirage is close to advantageous in is Exterminate.  That you expect to not only have the best frame for the objective, but also do all the damage is ludicrous.

Advantageous? As in the only mission type Miragulor is actually GOOD in is exterminate? The mission type that is basically every other linear mission type but without an extra objective? You are still supposed to actually kill enemies on the way to the objective in other mission types y'know, I can't see how a frame that is effective at killing a number of enemies can't also be just as good at killing a number of enemies THEN shooting a reactor or THEN shooting and capturing a guy.

At this point I'm actually pretty sure you're just trolling because I have literally never said that I want to have the best frame and most kills for the objective. The only reason I have any doubt that you're trolling is because this entire thread is now people saying the same thing over and over despite those points being extensively covered 5 pages ago.

23 hours ago, PatternistSlave said:

Because they're only in your head.  You're the only one either phony enough or crazy enough to be upset every time you see a Mirage.  You just said you don't play high level exterminates and those are the only missions it would be even close to reasonable for a Mirage to be upsetting anyone.  Any other mission?

I don't play high level Exterminates CONSTANTLY is what I said. If I didn't want to play the mission based on killing enemies, in a shooter, then I don't know what I would be playing the game for. Also see above for why it's very reasonable for Miragulor to be effective in other missions. I don't get annoyed when I SEE a Mirage, I get annoyed when a Mirage with the Simulor wipes the map without me being able to do anything. And again, I didn't make this thread, and others agree with the OP's point, so I'm clearly not the "only one" thinking this.

23 hours ago, PatternistSlave said:

Know what is a CONSTANT stream?  Enemies.  In every mission aside from exterminate.  Not a phony?  Then you're really annoyed when you have the best frame for an objective, but don't see the highest damage percentage at the results screen.  Is that what this thread is really about?  Stop pretending she's particularly good and needs nerfed.  Let's get that results screen that's upsetting you so removed.  Or I'll humor you more.  How often are you "annoy"ed by Mirage?  1 every 20 missions?  30?  So it's reasonable to you that a frame people put time and effort into and are enjoying be nerfed, not for any particular advantage it has, but because in 1 in 20 missions it annoys you slightly?

My point is indeed that Miragulor is the best frame for almost every objective; that's my problem with her. It's not good for any game when there's only one best option for doing something. We have dozens of Warframes but Miragulor trumps many of them in killing power through pure cheese rather than intelligent building and strategy. I don't care about getting the best final stats, but there's a point where it changes from "getting the best stats" to "actually being able to get kills", and that's the factor that is annoying me and others. 

I don't play Public often, due to not being able to really trust teammates and having to deal with lag, but when I do I'd say at least a third of the groups I join have a Miragulor, or at the very least a Mirage with some other AoE weapon. I'd actually play Public more if less people used obnoxious Mirage wipe builds, as would people like the OP I'm sure.

LOL at people putting effort into Miragulor, all you need is a bog-standard Mirage build and a bog-standard Simulor build and you are at peak Miragulor efficiency, Formaing is minimal because all you need for HoM is duration and a bit of strength if you care. It has very obvious advantages in that it kills enemies regardless of any real player input, and does so better than a lot of options that DO involve player input, and more time and effort than any Miragulor build.

[(XBOX)Aaptronym]

On 1/16/2017 at 3:03 PM, PatternistSlave said:

You expect me to believe that not only are you for no reason whatsoever constantly doing high level Exterminates.  Not stealthed for Focus which you would have to do solo and would make sense.  But on public.  So you want help.  But not too much help.  And there is this constant stream of Mirages ruining your good time.  That's what I'm supposed to believe?  Cause I don't.  It's ludicrous that you expect anyone to be dumb enough to believe that.  This thread is an attention whoring troll.  You're a phony.

Do you have any argument other than "I don't believe it"? Whether or not the guy experiences that problem is irrelevant because we all know the problem exists in some capacity.

[ScorpDK]

You realize this is an endless cycle, don't you? You nerf one thing, the community will find another thing that can be used to EZ-mode. That's not a problem with the game, but with the people playing it.
If people are angry their 8-times forma'd weapon kills everything, then maybe not equipping their top-level mods would solve that.
If people get angry that this one warframe can basically lock down an entire map by equipping all the good power mods and therefore make the mission trivial, then maybe NOT using said mods would solve it.
See the pattern? It's not the game, it's the fact people min-max and don't attempt to try out new and fun builds, and go strictly for the most efficient one. We have a ton of great mods that would make for creative playstyles, but people don't really use them because "they're not optimal". Sacrificing a damage mod in favor for sticky bombs? Doesn't increase the DPS, won't equip.

I play solo all the time, so therefore I have zero issues with power creep and min-max build teammates...
The only thing I can recommend here is this: Stop playing with pubbies and find some friends that you can enforce "etiquette" standards upon, having guildies and friends who know what combos not to bring along for your runs, etc. It solves basically ALL the issues mentioned. Unless your friend loves to use said combo, at which point you'll just have to accept that, and move on.