[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Buzkyl]

6 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

Just curious, why do you think Limbo should be able to nuke to begin with? He has some of the best CC, survivability, and with Rift Torrent absurd damage buffs second only to Banshee. Why, with all of this,  should Limbo also be able to nuke a room? 

No one is asking Limbo to be able to go back to nuking rooms. However his 'scaling damage" scales horribly. Right now cataclsym takes long to deal less damage in a smaller area than it's previous version. If DE didn't want the ability to scale they simple would've removed the scaling however it's current damage was nerfed twice over,

[DrBorris]

Just now, Buzkyl said:

No one is asking Limbo to be able to go back to nuking rooms. However his 'scaling damage" scales horribly. Right now cataclsym takes long to deal less damage in a smaller area than it's previous version. If DE didn't want the ability to scale they simple would've removed the scaling however it's current damage was nerfed twice over,

But... Why should scaling damage be part of his kit? Between all of his abilities and augments he has more power on the battlefield than most frames without even counting Cataclysm's nuke. 

[Buzkyl]

Just now, DrBorris said:

But... Why should scaling damage be part of his kit? Between all of his abilities and augments he has more power on the battlefield than most frames without even counting Cataclysm's nuke. 

Because damage abilities shouldn't only be useful for lower levels. No it shouldn't instantly wipe the map, but there's no reason why it shouldn't scale. That's not just a probelm for Limbo but for all damage abilities.

And it's very much intended that Limbo's cataclsym damage should scale as in both iterations before and after the rework it doesn't deal flat damage but it's damaage is modified with the amount of enemies currently in the rift, if it was meant to be solely utility DE could've simply removed the damage scaling formula and leave the flat damage.

[LuckyCharm]

I havent tried the new cata yet, but im still not sure why it wasnt just changed to something like novas ult.. low power strength does less % damage and high power strength gives more. Theres already plenty of spam frames in game. If people want to spam then let them. Just force them to actually mod to deal that damage rather than get it freely

[(PSN)MrNishi]

14 hours ago, (Xbox One)ZeroMKIX said:

With new rework, I'm much happier with that than what I had in mind. So this thread is now officially pointless.

Greatly appreciate the honesty.

Hoping that comment makes some Dev's day!😁

[JohnKable]

2 hours ago, Chewarette said:

You can't compare like that.

A spell that deals 50% of enemies max HP will mean you just have to use it twice to kill enemies => moar spam. If you meant that Cataclysm could still deal 50% of current enemies HP, then that's approximately the same when you arrive at a high-enough level. You'd just spam your Cataclysm enough to reduce the HP bar of those bulletsponges and when it has come down to an acceptable level, you OS it with a random hit.

A spell that doubles the damage dealt to the enemies is just a damage increase but you still have to do something to kill them. I've never been able to kill the complete map by just spamming Nova's 4.

In my opinion this rerework would've been better if they simply changed this "one-hit damage" into a DoT. Your 50-second Cataclysm would deal 1% of enemies HP damage per second. That would've avoided Limbos with EV build that will still spam their Cataclysm to maximise their damage input.

i agree with you. i was just making a comparison with existing stuff: now cataclysm has not relevant damage and CC only paired with stasis. Good CC i have to admit but damage is negligible and CC is inferior to single ability spam like rhino stomp (that also has much higher range) the comparison with MP is kinda stretched, i admit, but still makes some sense to me. Its not straight damage but still double damage at any level AND powerful CC spammable with crazy range
cataclysm should make damage per second, definitely

[malekas]

1 hour ago, Shadu said:

It's a bit of a weird one, killing does spread Rift Surge but.. it only puts the rift surge effect on those enemies. It doesn't do anything else. It doesn't bring enemies around the target that had rift surge affecting him that is killed into the rift. So it's only good for keeping the damage bonus from rift torrent going.

If you want to use rift surge to bring other enemies into the rift you'll have to cast banish on them or collapse cataclysm while rift surge is active on them. But then you likely already have cataclysm up and running which makes any ally in it to be affected by stasis and any enemy in the range will be in the rift already and thus rift surge is not needed.

Wrong, killing an enemy in the rift while they are affected by rift surge doesn't trigger the AoE banish, the banish only comes from them returning to the material plane while being affected by rift surge. If banish was usable on the material plane while you were in the rift this would be fine, although still clunky, but as it is: Be in the Rift -> Activate Stasis -> Dash to material plane -> Banish target -> Dash into the Rift -> Activate Rift Surge -> Banish target again -> Rift Surge targets for increased damage bonus -> Setup shots on the enemies -> Drop stasis to kill them. This just takes way too long and having to do it over and over constantly whenever you've killed a group shows how badly it is where as you can instead use cataclysm: Be in rift -> Activate Stasis -> Plop down Cataclysm -> Cast Rift Surge -> Line up shots -> Release Stasis. Do you see the difference between the two and why the first isn't a good option even though you can use it?

That's what I thought, but I keep hearing people saying that killing will cause the radial banish. But, then this leaves Rift Surge as being clunky and pointless in a lot of situations.

[(PSN)A_SimpleName]

Current Console Build: Overall, Limbo is in a great place. He is now truly the Master of the Battlefield. An apex manipulator/controller. His entire skill set is useful and fun and is now more than a one-trick pony.

Abilities

• Passive 1 - Dashing in and out of rift is a nice touch.
  • The transition is smooth and doesn't interrupt gameplay.
  • It can use a more visual indicator to tell you if you're inside or outside the rift. Currently, the effect is subdue (maybe because of my graphic setting; color correction options, gamma, bloom, etc). Maybe have him glow more with respect to energy color. (e.g. Mesa 1st or 3rd ability).
  • I don't know how I feel about the infinite duration. Worse case scenario, it's an AFKer best friend.
• Passive 2 - Gain 10 energy per enemy killed in the rift
  • Nice. Go well with his current Cataclysm. Maybe too good. How about 5 energy instead?
• Banish -
  • It's a 1st, so I don't expect much out of it.
  • I'd rather the old Banish. Single target and cast-able in or out of rift. I don't find the new Banish has much usage compare to old.
  • Make Banish cast-able whenever but give a duration to his Passive 1.
• Stasis
  • Amazing ability. I think this single change is what make Limbo great. I was really surprise this ability made it through testing. It's essentially Freezing Globe with much longer duration.
  • This is the Limbo best ability.
• Rift Surge
  • Still iffy about it. Works great with the Augments but need more playtime to give proper feedback.
  • Make it cast-able at anytime, like Stasis. I don't want to have to wait till an enemy is presence in the rift for the ability to be valid.
• Cataclysm
  • There is synergy with his abilities now. Stasis + Cataclysm is fantastic (mostly for CC and Melee main).
  • The damage output is quite powerful. Combining his Passive 2 with the 4 spamming is not healthy.
  • The damage needs to be tone down. That being say, after reading the PC patch notes, those changes are way too much. It turns Limbo into a CC frame that needs 2 abilities to accomplish.
  • Make enemies take damage over time while inside the Cataclysm instead of instant burst damage. The bubble collapsing still cause a blast proc with minimal damage to compensate. This will deter spamming 4 while keeping it still useful.   

Edited April 20, 2017 by (PS4)A_SimpleName

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Also...when stasis is active, melee should be the only weapon that can be used. Like it disarms u and ur team and force's melee attks only.

 

The 300 projectile limit is a killer...so instead, pure melee. Even with glaive, gun blades and zenistar...will be much more manageable.

Edited April 20, 2017 by (PS4)big_eviljak

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

What did they change on banshee?

[Kaokasalis]

Cataclysm is in the place it should be now. Limbo was never meant to be a nuker but rather the point of him is to be able to single out one or more enemy targets and eliminate them or to protect teammates. That's how the rift plane works like.

[Aldenshae]

I think the problem with Cataclysm is that it's got a split personality.  It's this big area that does damage, but then shrinks inconveniently (use Stasis and try to figure out what's going on with stuff at the shrinking event horizon!  Will it get stuck in time?  Or escape?) and the rift<>not-rift issue with damage -- especially with allies -- just gets more complicated.  Beyond pulling everything in the area into the Rift, it should serve either a damage function or a utility function but not both or you run into this problem.

I haven't tried the new Cataclysm, but I know the old one was pretty OP.  What I'd RATHER have is Cataclysm do no damage other than the standard crossover hit, and instead NOT SHRINK.  That'll make it useful for area-denial with Stasis, supporting a channeling ally with the energy regen, or protecting an objective (like a Frost bubble) without slowly shrinking and making it harder for people moving around to know when and where they can hit targets.  A guaranteed knockdown on enter/cast and on collapse/end would be plenty useful without making it a "'damage" ability.

[LazyKnight]

1 hour ago, Hieracon said:

Cataclysm is in the place it should be now. Limbo was never meant to be a nuker but rather the point of him is to be able to single out one or more enemy targets and eliminate them or to protect teammates. That's how the rift plane works like.

How he works is wasting the entire teams time by making something untargetable. That's not a play style, that's trolling. He does not protect teammate he prevents them from playing the game. 

If DE gave me an option I would NEVER play with a limbo ever again. I do not want a limbo's "help" or anything else that twisted skill set inflicts on my game.

 

Edited April 20, 2017 by LazyKnight

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

If you mod for range and reduce duration to it's smallest amount, wouldn't catalysm bomb still work?

[-CM-NineFingers]

6 minutes ago, LazyKnight said:

How he works is wasting the entire teams time by making something untargetable. That's not a play style, that's trolling. He does not protect teammate he prevents them from playing the game. 

If DE gave me an option I would NEVER play with a limbo ever again. I do not want a limbo's "help" or anything else that twisted skill set inflicts on my game.

 

That's perfectly fine. But your personal opinion should not eliminate an entire warframe from the rooster. You either found really bad limbos or don't understand the rift mechanics, cause when I play limbo nobody disconects, nobody complains, and sometimes I get compliments (rarely tho). Not everyone is that short sighted to not see the extreme CC and team benefits a limbo gives, in exchange for your firearms inside stasis.

PS: given that limbo doesn't make you unable to move, attack with all weapons or use abilities, how exactly does he prevent you from playing? The only frame that gains something out of not carrying a melee is mesa, and I rarely see one without a melee, cause the 50hp bonus is kinda S#&amp;&#036;ty. Would you care to explain?

[XCpDaX]

5 minutes ago, -CM-Limbo said:

That's perfectly fine. But your personal opinion should not eliminate an entire warframe from the rooster. You either found really bad limbos or don't understand the rift mechanics, cause when I play limbo nobody disconects, nobody complains, and sometimes I get compliments (rarely tho). Not everyone is that short sighted to not see the extreme CC and team benefits a limbo gives, in exchange for your firearms inside stasis.

PS: given that limbo doesn't make you unable to move, attack with all weapons or use abilities, how exactly does he prevent you from playing? The only frame that gains something out of not carrying a melee is mesa, and I rarely see one without a melee, cause the 50hp bonus is kinda S#&amp;&#036;ty. Would you care to explain?

haters gonna hate, i dont know why they hate limbo so much, iven when its nerfed the nuke build ( needed obviously) but the CC still on and better than many frames, the hate its strong this days

[Kaokasalis]

14 minutes ago, LazyKnight said:

How he works is wasting the entire teams time by making something untargetable. That's not a play style, that's trolling. He does not protect teammate he prevents them from playing the game. 

If DE gave me an option I would NEVER play with a limbo ever again. I do not want a limbo's "help" or anything else that twisted skill set inflicts on my game.

I disagree. While it is true that Limbo is able to troll with his kit he is however also capable of being a tremendous team asset if played right but all that depends on the person playing Limbo, not the frame. Also enemies in the rift is not totally untargetable as they can still be hit by warframe abilities no matter the plane.

[(XBOX)CarpeNoctem365]

Minus the plethora of bugs associated with limbo on the new console update, what kicks limbo out of the rift on PC? Do bursas or nullifiers? Scrambus and Comba? on console they can kick you out of the rift (his passive gets blocked?), nullifiers kick you out and it's frustrating to say in the least. "Patch notes say" and "Game executes as " are wildly different for this frame, i'd say stay away from corpus and orokin for the time being if you're on console, it's so buggy and inconsistent. PCmen I'm assuming it's not like this, but if it is i'd still like to know what is up. thanks

[LazyKnight]

18 minutes ago, -CM-Limbo said:

Not everyone is that short sighted to not see the extreme CC and team benefits a limbo gives, in exchange for your firearms inside stasis.

Calling me shortsighted? I know how his tool set works, i have known how his cc works since he was added to the game. I think it's beyond the pale that people accept enjoy having that type of CC inflicted on a mission.

18 minutes ago, -CM-Limbo said:

 You either found really bad limbos or don't understand the rift mechanics, cause when I play limbo nobody disconects, nobody complains, and sometimes I get compliments (rarely tho). 

I have limbo and  I know how limbo works. He is not complex or even take a working brain to use, and implying as much is a joke. I do not enjoy having a good limbo player that knows what their doing anymore than that idiot limbo that caused a mission fail. 

10 minutes ago, Hieracon said:

I disagree. While it is true that Limbo is able to troll with his kit he is however also capable of being a tremendous team asset if played right but all that depends on the person playing Limbo, not the frame. Also enemies in the rift is not totally untargetable as they can still be hit by warframe abilities no matter the plane.

So, sure i have to use 'x' in a designated zone and I am not allowed to use the list of the forbidden item in said zone. This type of law system is not something I enjoy and I have no opt out.  I do not want to play around a limbo, and if you do that's your business.  

Edited April 20, 2017 by LazyKnight

[Railgun]

For PC, Limbo gets kicked out of the rift by Bursa bubbles and nullifiers. Nullifiers  also instantly destroy cataclysm (though this is inconstant because a few times I've had nullies inside mine) Scrambus and Comba, oddly, do not kick you out of the rift. I think that is because you no longer require a skill to enter it and therefore they can't cancel it. It's pretty buggy for PC too because Rift Torrent (3rd ability) apparently can create small cataclysms around the map or on effected enemies (not super sure, someone correct me please) and those get effected differently by nullifiers too. But to be completely honest, I still have no clear understanding on how Rift Torrent works. Limbo is a confusing frame for me.

[(XBOX)RVN World News]

Amen

[ColdWarFish]

6 minutes ago, Hieracon said:

I disagree. While it is true that Limbo is able to troll with his kit he is however also capable of being a tremendous team asset if played right but all that depends on the person playing Limbo, not the frame. Also enemies in the rift is not totally untargetable as they can still be hit by warframe abilities no matter the plane.

While true, that's not much consolation for frames that rely mainly on buffing their weapons with their powers instead of dealing direct damage with them (Chroma and Rhino come to mind).

And while ones content with Limbos kit might very well be down to personal preference/opinion, I would really enjoy a Limbo that is less... let's call it intrusive, to the play of their own team.

Anyway: I, for one, am quite happy that "4 spam" Limbo is not a thing anymore. That constanct cataclysm opening/collapsing was unbearably annoying, even for me. And I am someone who generelly doesn't take/took offense in embers, miragulors, etc.

[SWAT_Omega]

I would say limbo has the highest Skill floor out of all warframes, it does ALOT of things.

[0relllius]

Just now, SWAT_Omega said:

I would say limbo has the highest Skill floor out of all warframes, it does ALOT of things.

What the ... really? 

[(XBOX)CarpeNoctem365]

2 minutes ago, SergeantSunshine said:

For PC, Limbo gets kicked out of the rift by Bursa bubbles and nullifiers. Nullifiers  also instantly destroy cataclysm (though this is inconstant because a few times I've had nullies inside mine) Scrambus and Comba, oddly, do not kick you out of the rift. I think that is because you no longer require a skill to enter it and therefore they can't cancel it. It's pretty buggy for PC too because Rift Torrent (3rd ability) apparently can create small cataclysms around the map or on effected enemies (not super sure, someone correct me please) and those get effected differently by nullifiers too. But to be completely honest, I still have no clear understanding on how Rift Torrent works. Limbo is a confusing frame for me.

I could have sworn that he could walk into nullifiers, not going to name names but a certain popular youtuber displayed it, and it's happened several time for me, am i mistaken? is he not supposed to be able to? or should he be able to?