[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Fallen_Echo]

50 minutes ago, Chroia said:

I agree that if Stasis only froze enemy projectiles he'd be much more team-friendly, but I suspect that it's a technical limitation

No bullet stop at all, only freezing the enemies in place.

 

28 minutes ago, kyori said:

From your text, you seems to be over concern about how the others felt when playing with limbo. As Limbo, as long as you don't troll others, you are just doing your job of defending the objective. 

Because i feel like im nothing but dead weight to them. I could bring any other frame to defend the objective for a matter but with limbo i have to abadon my skills or use them far away from my teammates so everyone can play as they want.

If i could lets say rift surge my allies to make them able to hit and kill anybody at the cost of not being immortal to, im sure people wouldnt have problems with him.

I also have to point out whenever a limbo joins in my team i know that they either become some semi-afk rift ghosts or i need to switch to full melee because my gun will be useless.

[Circle_of_Psi]

9 hours ago, Hom_Tanks said:

-snip-

Well, I'm sorry Hom, but if you are smipley upset about the Limbo "Nerf", then thats your own fault, I have nothing more to say on this topic.

 

Enjoy your day

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

3 hours ago, -CM-Limbo said:

No, returning rift walk is a bad idea. I heard the rolling thing is confusing on controllers, maybe they can give you a different option for remapping it, but turning it again into an ability is not the answer. It's too much of a hassle for something that the frame  should be doing at will, free and is mandatory to his survival.

 "Confusing" might be the wrong word -- it's pretty clear what it does. It's more a matter of adding one more feature to an already pretty busy button. 

Edited April 25, 2017 by (XB1)CannyJack

[-CM-NineFingers]

1 minute ago, (Xbox One)CannyJack said:

 "Confusing" might be the wrong word -- it's pretty clear what it does. It's more a matter of adding one more feature to an already pretty busy button. 

I don't think they're going to switch rift walk to douple tapping the roll button, since the loss of roll is the price to pay for the free, instant rift walk. I guess it's just a matter of getting used to move that way.

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

1 minute ago, -CM-Limbo said:

I don't think they're going to switch rift walk to douple tapping the roll button, since the loss of roll is the price to pay for the free, instant rift walk. I guess it's just a matter of getting used to move that way.

Certainly, it's just something to get used to. Double-tap doesn't do anything as far as I can tell; I don't think they have any hooks for that in the game anymore (least on console).

[(PSN)lhbuch]

I hate Limbo more now more than before. I know Im not alone. Entering in a mission and just be able to use melee is annoying.

Saying that I can run organized groups is not an answer because I could do it before as well. So this doesnt change anything.

Stasis + Cataclysm is absolutely broken OP. There isnt even a reason for missions like mobile defense to exist unless there are nullies. Enter rift, walk happily to objective. insert. Cast stasis, cataclysm. rinse and repeat. you can do it against level 1 billion enemies. doesnt make any difference.

Want to spice things up? Use Rift torrent and deal RIDICULOUS amounts of damage on paralyzed enemies!!! It is like using a nuclear bomb against an enemy in coma. 30% damage per enemy affected by the power. And Power Strenght affects the percentage.

I know he is powerful but he is ANNOYING

 

 

[(PSN)lhbuch]

Just now, (PS4)lhbuch said:

I hate Limbo more now more than before. I know Im not alone. Entering in a mission and just be able to use melee is annoying.

Saying that I can run organized groups is not an answer because I could do it before as well. So this doesnt change anything.

Stasis + Cataclysm is absolutely broken OP. There isnt even a reason for missions like mobile defense to exist unless there are nullies. Enter rift, walk happily to objective. insert. Cast stasis, cataclysm. rinse and repeat. you can do it against level 1 billion enemies. doesnt make any difference.

Want to spice things up? Use Rift torrent and deal RIDICULOUS amounts of damage on paralyzed enemies!!! It is like using a nuclear bomb against an enemy in coma. 30% damage per enemy affected by the power. And Power Strenght affects the percentage.

So you thought that not been able to pick drops was annoying right... so there you go. Use your melee only you .....

 

 

 

[NeonNemesis]

You see this is why i'm scared of the Oberon rework DE can't neither understand their frames nor the comunity and every idea they have to improvwe the frame is the most lazy outcome possible that ends up putting the frame in a worse situation that it was before the rework.

I don't think both things have as bad as they are now for Limbo, if you want to troll a team with limbo, let's say a bow only sortie you throw max duration cataclysm and stasis and sit back and lol.

On the other side Limbo players who are trying to help the team now get this type of treatment with people not cooperating with them and trying to disrupt his swkills the best they can.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

I have not used Limbo since his rework, mainly because I am awaiting a new controller as my L1 (Roll) is now broken because of spam crouch trying to use Octavia.

So would be difficult to use Limbo without being able to Roll/Rift-Walk.

Unless I just want to Cataclysm spam*

 

Stasis Limbo and Ice Cube Frost are anti-Prolonged Paralysis. The are the opposite team synergy for the way I melee as Valkyr, much like a Blessing(or even EV Leech) Trinity does not pair well with Chroma.

✓I cannot bring enemies into an easy pile to dispatch with Melee with Stasis.  Same with Frozen ice cubed enemies do not move, just like 'Stone statue enemies' and Ice/stone statues appear to be super Status resistant which makes my Status Lacera feel useless.(I can't utilize applying Status to slowed Knockdown enemies to gain Stealth Melee Multiplier and also cannot heal with Healing Return)

✓I get less energy from the rift, than I get from Rage. 

✓Cannot self-heal efficiently with Healing Return Melee, because I cannot Prolonged Paralysis dog-pile enemies and have limited melee contact with Banish/Cataclysm countering my Primed Reach Lacera

 

Thankfully Cataclysm spam on console clears out the enemies so I can get through the mission.

 

Stasis Limbo's in the Sorties, just make the mission so long. I am running max fire-rate Boar Prime to end Stasis (ammo utility mods only damage mod is Hell's Chamber for Multi-shot)

It takes so much longer to melee a Stasis enemy, DE either needs to grant Stealth Melee Multiplier o these enemies or let Cataclysm nuking persist. That way it doesn't take 30minutes for a 10wave Sortie defense.(Although, I think Limbo player was purposely trolling us that run)*

On Console Limbo currently makes my Valkyr useless except for as a New Moon Resurrection tool, when they mess up.

 

[(PSN)MrNishi]

Just now, NeonNemesis said:

You see this is why i'm scared of the Oberon rework DE can't neither understand their frames nor the comunity and every idea they have to improvwe the frame is the most lazy outcome possible that ends up putting the frame in a worse situation that it was before the rework.

I don't think both things have as bad as they are now for Limbo, if you want to troll a team with limbo, let's say a bow only sortie you throw max duration cataclysm and stasis and sit back and lol.

On the other side Limbo players who are trying to help the team now get this type of treatment with people not cooperating with them and trying to disrupt his swkills the best they can.

I don't think Limbo rework can be called 'Lazy'

I really think as 'DE Steve's said in a stream 'this could be like the main character's ability in a Dark Sectors 2 game'

Limbo has become master of the Rift, overpowered and all. It just does not play well with the 'supposed' Warframe team play.

Must be amazing as the actual Limbo player, controlling everything.

Just sucks as anyone else being a witness or feeling like the 3rd/4th string back-up.

[dreadgame]

Just make it so stasis stops only limbo's bullets or other limbo bullets not any other frames. 

[(PSN)LeonidasxGGG]

Limbo Rework Review
I am a Limbo main and I've been testing him since the new update on PS4 to get acostumed to the new changes. Before this rework the only thing I asked was that Surge could be automatically active when we enter the Rift and Surge be turned into the "stop-time" ability (now called Statis). Now I have played enough time and this is what I think of it:

PROS
-Can go in and out of rift without wasting energy
-Can hit multiple enemies with banish (was a bit reluctant at first because I like to banish allies in Rescue and Defense Sorties, but now I just reverse and do it to enemies instead)
-Statis is amazing

CONS
-Cannot Banish while in Rift!
-If I am in Rift and go into Cataclism, going out of it cancels Rift
-Dash makes me loose sight of target. Ence Banish knockdown is wasted now because of the in-out/out-in new Rift mechanics
-Having to come out of Rift to use Banish diminishes my passive of getting energy while in it. I now have to use Prime Flow when before I needed no Flow at all.
-Always Dashing and Banishing and killing enemies makes me dizzy sometimes because of lots of (camera) movement.
-Statis and surge sometimes stop (or cancel each other?) for no aparent reason BUG
-Why have surge outside the rift if he then puts other enemies in it?
-Sometimes enemies are still standing after death or leave a "shadow" behind BUG
-Hard to know who is in or out of rift (enemy or ally) when in a big crowd.
-Flames of cataclism bubble look bright as always

Here a little descrition of how I play...
In Extermintation or Capture before:
Rift-Surge-/find enemies/Banish-shoot... Banish-shoot...And so on. Because I could Banish from inside the Rift and still get the knock-down, and because Surge gave me a crit boost, I could easelly kill enemies even before they hit the ground.
Now: 
Rift-Statis-/find enemies/unrift-Banish-Rift-shoot-unstatis... Repeat from the very beguining. Surge becomes a bit a waste of energy because Banish already hits everything and I just want to move on. Also, the in-out out-in mechanics prevent me from aiming and killing enemies properly. Ence I just use melee a LOT.

In Defense or Interception before:
Rift-Cataclism-Surge-shoot OUWARDS-IN because being in Rift while outside the Cataclism bubble provided safety and could still do damage.
Now:
Rift-Cataclism-Statis-(surge ONLY because I have Aug)-melee-unstatis... Statis-melee-unstatis...And so on. Not exactly a bad change but there are some problems: comming out of Cataclism bubble removes my Rift, and also other team member do not do damage unless they (know, or remember to) use melee weapon (it's ok for Interception because you don't have to kill everyone, but bad for Defense since you need to clear every enemy in wave), AND there is lots of bugs from enemies that die but don't disapear or leave a shadow behind (like I stated above).

Limbo his amazing, but then again he always was (to me). My final conclusion is that Limbo now feels a lot more like Frost (but instead of Ice he uses Time). He seems to have moved from being "master of invulnerability" to be "master of timestop". I now (unfortunatelly?) end up many times using melee ONLY way more than before and (without the Aug) Surge isn't really that efficient anymore. And also, other players sometimes aren't even aware to use melee inside Cataclism, thus Limbo becomes (even more) a solo frame.

Still, there is lots of room for improvement, so here are my suggested changes:
-Make him Banish from inside the Rift! That way we don't lose sigh of target(s) to shoot. OR go into Rift in same place somehow (if moving, he would do the Dash as always).
-Make a way to cancel all Banished enemies (somehow)... We should be able to cancel Banish the way we cancel Cataclism but by holding button or something. Here's why: I have to see the banished enemy to cancel it, which sometimes leaves me running around trying to find that last one in Defense or Interception mission (also, that bothers other players that can't kill it even if they find him and/or just want to move on).
-If you keep the mechanic in Surge, then make it do "something". Here's why: Surge does nothing to the enemy (or to us) without the Aug (and the Aug is amazing!). We can already have multiple enemies in Rift thanks to the new cone Banish and Cataclism, so just banish more enemies IF they are near the enemy when he dies isn't really that... Efficient. I much like the old Surge that gave us a boost in crit! So maybe Surge could do something like that over time? "Something" useful.
-Statis should stop or slow down rotation of cataclism bubble... because: logic.

[(PSN)psycofang]

3 hours ago, Chewarette said:

Silly because we may want to play a certain way ?

Silly because that's not up to another player to decide you have to play melee ?

Silly because we maybe don't want to play Lumberjack Simulator 2017 where you have unlimited fun chopping down trees all day long ?

Silly because there are 300 weapons in this game and a Stasis Limbo can reduce you to only play half ?

If you're bringing a Stasis Limbo in a PUG mission, I consider you're just a trolling A****** and have literally 0 problem ruining all your Stasis with my 120-rounds-per-second Twin Grakata and watch you die (because Stasis Limbos are only good at dying when the Stasis falls).

Trust me youll run out of bullets long before i run out of stasis.

 

Also i won't die considering im almost never nearby.

 

Im just going to make ppl hate me from now on just because of this post.

[(PSN)zeltwang]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

Trust me youll run out of bullets long before i run out of stasis.

 

Also i won't die considering im almost never nearby.

 

Im just going to make ppl hate me from now on just because of this post.

nice excuse.  One person posts something and you now feel the need to actively work towards angering as many as possible?  Ok then.

My issue with Limbo is the horrid visual effects.  LOTS of people complained about Mirage and how hard it was to see anything which is understandable, I find Limbo to be just as bad if not worse.  I could care less about kills and how people want to play the game.  I'll happily go to another room and kill stuff there if I can.  If DE would adjust the visual effects of Limbo's powers, it would be so much better for others. 

For a disclaimer, myself and a buddy killed Kela in a sortie with Limbo and Trinity.  Never fired a round at her.  Limbo put us in the rift and Trinity drained the life out of her.  It was fun.    

[(PSN)psycofang]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)zeltwang said:

nice excuse

Its not an excuse as i am not deflecting a situation or trying to re place blame.

9 minutes ago, (PS4)zeltwang said:

 One person posts something and you now feel the need to actively work towards angering as many as possible?  

Yes because its not "just one person" and even those who dont speak like an ember going into my 7M (maximum btw) cata to turn off a stasis thats never on.

Ive received unwarranted abuse over the last few days and its apparently creeping into the console version as well despite me having a mind my own business build.

Then i hop on here and see this in many different forms/words and posts

4 hours ago, Chewarette said:

If you're bringing a Stasis Limbo in a PUG mission, I consider you're just a trolling A******

Or in game i stop caring.

And now i do again.

Now i feel like being the villain everyone wants and wishes for me to be. I will Stasis at inordinately disproportionate times and when those lemmings go to turn it off ill undo cataclysm to get them all killed.

 

Over.

And over

And over

9 minutes ago, (PS4)zeltwang said:

 It was fun.

Thats not what it is anymore.

 

Be it a cold war or otherwise, i play Hakumen in BBCF relatively well, im well versed in getting people to kill themselves through passive aggression and the angrier they get the faster they lose.

Im not going to stop, i have no reason to.

[-CM-NineFingers]

2 hours ago, dreadgame said:

Just make it so stasis stops only limbo's bullets or other limbo bullets not any other frames. 

That would be way too powerful, while only Limbo would suffer the downsides. No, either it stops all bullets, or none of them.

[Fallen_Echo]

27 minutes ago, (PS4)zeltwang said:

My issue with Limbo is the horrid visual effects.  LOTS of people complained about Mirage and how hard it was to see anything which is understandable, I find Limbo to be just as bad if not worse.

We came so long since the game launched and still we havent got a turn allied effects off option.

17 minutes ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

Yes because its not "just one person" and even those who dont speak like an ember going into my 7M (maximum btw) cata to turn off a stasis thats never on.

Ive received unwarranted abuse over the last few days and its apparently creeping into the console version as well despite me having a mind my own business build.

Theres no way a Limbo can do a pub run peacefully. You are either abused of being an afk leech or get random angry people waiting in line to pop your stasis.

Even the pre nerf miragulor havrnt managed to get this much hate and salt around her.

[LazyKnight]

1 hour ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Even the pre nerf miragulor havrnt managed to get this much hate and salt around her.

I am so sick of pug limbos at this point. Limbo is the only warframe I hate. Yes, I am frustrated.

They fail at excavation and who would bring stasis limbo to secondary only sortie? Yeah, now i can't kill things next to the excavator because I didn't bring a fast shooting weapon and have to wait for my 4 to do any damage to the Ai.

If DE doesn't fix stasis i am done playing with limbo . I do not care anymore I would rather have an AFK player or just do it solo. 

Edited April 25, 2017 by LazyKnight

[Vanrythzx]

2 hours ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

Trust me youll run out of bullets long before i run out of stasis.

 

Also i won't die considering im almost never nearby.

 

Im just going to make ppl hate me from now on just because of this post.

damn, you are on ps4... otherwise you would have some nasty &#! days x)

[PsiWarp]

Limbo has too much influence over the actions of his teammates. I can care less if this degree of control remains for enemies (like most other proper abilities), but to put other players through all that crap does not make him welcomed at all.

Sure he is powerful and can be a valuable asset when played right. But a tiny mistake or negligence in using his abilities, he doesn't pay for it, all other players do. I get that devs want players to think tactically with Limbo, but what I don't get is why do they want the annoying aspects of all his powers to remain in their current state?

There must be better ways to include drawbacks to using the Rift without screwing over teammates.

[(PSN)psycofang]

4 minutes ago, Vanrythzx said:

damn, you are on ps4... otherwise you would have some nasty &#! days x)

I play on pc as well

[Buddhakingpen]

While i do feel that they overdid his rework, if you cant see that he's master of the rift i dont know what to tell you. 

Dude literally has free invincibility and energy regen as a PASSIVE

Although the time stopping bullets thing is annoying, melee is the strongest offense that we have in the game right now, and limbo basically allows all of his team to melee with impunity

My main issue is the same as everyone elses. He's not made for pub runs. He's imposing his will on his team, and thats anti fun, even if extremely useful. 

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

2 hours ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

Trust me youll run out of bullets long before i run out of stasis.

 

Also i won't die considering im almost never nearby.

 

Im just going to make ppl hate me from now on just because of this post.

Keep workin' that angle, and maybe DE will suspend Limbo from public play (or disable him entirel) until the next rework. That wouldn't be the worst thing that happened. 

("I decide how you play" seems to be a thing with the Limbo Rework and Octavia. Hers is more subtle, but it's still "squat in time to my rhythm or get no buffs." I just ignore Octavias now, I can bring my own buffs.)

Edited April 25, 2017 by (XB1)CannyJack

[kyori]

5 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

I also have to point out whenever a limbo joins in my team i know that they either become some semi-afk rift ghosts or i need to switch to full melee because my gun will be useless.

That... you only have DE to blame.... or the one who suggested to DE on the idea of the present stasis... Ya, jojo cosplay... and end up making people hate limbo. 

[Fallen_Echo]

11 minutes ago, (Xbox One)CannyJack said:

("I decide how you play" seems to be a thing with the Limbo Rework and Octavia. Hers is more subtle, but it's still "squat in time to my rhythm or get no buffs." I just ignore Octavias now, I can bring my own buffs.)

I dont even use that skill for octavia, its just not worth it.

 

Im not sure what needs to happen now to make DE rework him properly. Trolling limbo players or players trolling limbo.