[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[chainchompguy3]

Having fun with this new Limbo. However, there are some things I find a bit odd. Not Bad, odd.

• Limbo's new Void-dash is not counted as a power by Nullifiers or Endurance Orokin puzzle (But is by Stalker though), and is thus not cancelled nor prevented. This seems almost certainly not intended, (especially the Orokin Puzzle, as limbo can complete it without any effort at all) but it makes limbo feel a lot less hopeless against them. And do note, all his other powers ARE still nullified, just not his ability to be in the rift. Basically, entering a nullifier forcibly makes you alone in the rift (Something I've been wanting as one of Limbo's powers for some time now)
• Limbo's new Banish same-plane requirement makes it very hard to justify using, but also adds some significance to targeting a single enemy, because now if you want to do it from within the rift, you must use Cataclysm, which pulls in MANY more enemies. I have not, however, tried using Rift Surge's Constant-re-banish with this yet. (If an enemy with Rift surge active is banished to the material plane, they re-banish themselves, as well as other nearby, material-plane enemies.) Overall, this has complicated his kit, but in a good, or at least interesting, way.
• Stasis pauses projectiles, and stores hitscan damage for later, but Melee is still entirely real time. This can lead to some odd moments for certain enemies, like Sentients adapting to your melee while you have them on pause.
• The recent decrease in Rift effects has made it somewhat difficult to be for sure what plane you are on. This is especially so when you are in a kuva mission, as Operator mode will inconsistently remove your Rift-walk, meaning you are never sure if you need to Dodge-roll immediately after re-entering your frame. 

Overall, I really like his current state, my only complaints being that it's so crazy, it takes some getting used to.

Edited March 25, 2017 by chainchompguy3

[Levanthan]

Rift Surge doesn't damage other nearby surged enemies when you kill a surged enemy in the rift.

[yles9056]

You should try it yourself. The heal is a nice bonus, but it doesn't make Limbo the best healer.

[jwya]

Has anyone tried using ignis alongside stasis? 

 

Stasis appears to break ignis, and ignis appears to break stasis. Even though ignis isn't a projectile weapon (or is it?), firing an ignis doesn't do damage to enemies in the rift. Instead, it deals 2 to 3 ticks of 50-100 damage to enemies after deactivating rift manually, or deactivates stasis if u keep shooting for long enough.

Edited March 25, 2017 by jwya

[Hjalmthrimul]

48 minutes ago, Levanthan said:

Rift Surge doesn't damage other nearby surged enemies when you kill a surged enemy in the rift.

You get to draw a nifty little closed polygon, which then shrinks when you turn off stasis.  Doesn't do damage though.

[Jangkrik]

Ok, as a Limbo main, I think I'll write my personal opinion regarding his rework.

The good:

1. The rift dash is really cool and useful. It greatly reduces the annoyance and vulnerability of using Rift Walk.

2. Stasis. This thing is really good. Limbo can now have more control on the enemies in the rift as opposed to his ultra fragile nature before the patch.

The neutral:

1. The loss of roll. I personally use rolls a lot when using Limbo and the replacement of rolls with void dash disrupted my playstyle a bit. Still, the rift dash makes up for the loss.

The bad:

1. The Banish. One of the main uses for Limbo is to control the enemies. You control which enemy does which without much complications in doing so. The current Banish is rather bad for the control ability of Limbo as he will be forced to banish a group of enemies instead of a single enemy. Now the group banish isn't that bad, but seeing as Limbo needs to banish specific enemies often, I think the Limbo should be able to either banish group of enemies or banish a specific enemy. My specific solution for this is, as several others have said, to implement "hold" ability like Ivara's arrow. The hold should be for banishing a group of enemies while the single press for a single enemy or vice-versa.

Also, I think the Limbo should be able to control the enemies' dimension however he wants like the old Banish (press 1 to banish, press 1 again to unbanish) regardless of his dimension instead of "kicking them out" of his dimension as it is now very annoying to switch dimension just to unbanish/banish enemies.

2, Rift Torrent damage multiplier. I seriously can't comprehend the removal of the damage multiplier from Rift Torrent. It is one of the main reason for Limbo players to send the enemies to the rift: for quick killing. Why remove it?

[Temragon]

A lot of good changes. Thank you very much for most of them!

Issues:

1. Losing roll is pretty big for survivability when we're forced to be outside the rift or when we have enemies with us. Unfortunately I haven't thought of a better solution yet

2. Banish not working from the other side of the rift. This is a big problem, controlling who is in the rift at any time is very important for Limbo at higher enemy levels, and not being able to remove enemies while you're outside or add them while you're inside feels like an unreasonable change.

3. No ability to banish single units. This is something many people brought up before the changes went live. A hold-to-AoE or Hold-to-single-target would be very appreciated.

4. If you have manually entered the rift, cataclysm will still remove you.

Edited March 25, 2017 by Temragon

[Thexceedel]

Everytime i cast the ability on an enemy it says invalid target 

[Evanescent]

2 hours ago, NativeKiller said:

No more safely banishing enemies one by one while being the Rift yourself, AFAIK.

Also, no more regular rolling.

(Furthermore, I doubt if Defense Sortie targets would reliably get into the Rift with their AI.)

 

If that's true, Limbo just got hugely nerfed in my books.

 

...Can't believe that Limbo actually got further NERFED.

I will take losing some gimmick cheese over being mostly a huge pain to use in most other content.

[Imaru]

Are you casting from inside the Rift on things outside? You can only Banish enemies in the same plane as you as per the Update 20 notes. 

[Mk.1]

As Imaru said, you can only send enemies to the rift while you are in reality, and enemies to reality while you are in the rift.

[Volinus7]

Nullifier allergy, plain and simple something that spelled "imbalance" between frames.

Edited March 25, 2017 by Volinus7

[Calvyr]

So here's an interesting thought. Limbo is the "Master of the Rift", but his powers (Banish, specifically) don't work across planes, while other Warframes, who are mere guests in the Rift, can freely use their abilities across both planes while in the Rift. Does this really make sense?

[Quanlain]

So far, the biggest compaint about Limbo's rework is an unnanounced inability to banish enemies from different plane. 
I can not even run Orokin tower survival properly anymoe. Because Limbo is too fragile and gets one-shotted from a huge distance. Safe-banish should be really returned, and this Rework will be just fine. 

It's just extremely unrewarding now.

If previously, while beign in rift, you could just safely bring one enemy (and it could be more after rework). Now you actually need to unbanish yourself, thus opening yourself to the fire, banish an enemy, and then banish yourself. Problem is: it made Limbo's speed even lower when compared to pre-rework. Thing is: Limbo gets benefits from staying in rift, but banish (1-st skill) rework now activly forces Limbo to play out of the rift.

This change is the only flaw that almost ruins Limbo experience: beign safe, and be able to get into safety when needed.
The only change that was not addressed and it is actually one of the biggest ones. 
I almost understand why it was implemented: because of chance of confusion; If you banished someone before, and then used it again, close to another enemy, they could get swapped. And in some cases there could begin caos, i Understand that. But why not try to make banish AOE only affecting the same plane? I.E: enemies will not be targetted in AOE, if they are not in the same dimension as target.

This will give an opportunity to revert banish changes, and give Limbo much needed Survivability. Remember: safety first.


Other than that, i'm extremely glad that DE adressed all the concerns about Limbo from all Limbo mains. No spontaneous cataclysms from third skill, and persistent augment is awesome. Stasis works extremely well (but get's destroyed by ignis) with cataclysm. No enemy lock like it is with inaros/nidus and nyx, and that is awesome. I am higely glad that DE got rid from every issue that i and every other participant found.

Edited March 25, 2017 by Quanlain

[Shifted]

He seems a lot more useful now, but I HAAAAAAAATE the "enter rift on dodge" idea.

I often use dodge during normal movement and now trying to actively avoid using it in order to not switch "planes" is seriously messing with the muscle memory.

I'd prefer if it was activated by something else, either casting untargeted 1, holding 1 or doing a backflip.
Or maybe dodge to enter, backflip to leave.

PS.
The "can't banish from rift" thing also sucks.

Edited March 25, 2017 by Shifted

[NativeKiller]

9 hours ago, Evanescent said:

I will take losing some gimmick cheese over being mostly a huge pain to use in most other content.

Well, if you ask me those "gimmick cheese" such as being able to safely banish enemies and allies while keeping yourself from harm in the Rift, were his biggest fortes.

 

So... yeah.

It's great QoL improvement that Cataclysm doesn't prevent obtaining loot anymore but I personally don't see much reason to use him at all.

(I don't do Lua spy missions)

 

I used to use Limbo for the niche of Radiation hazard Defense sorties.

As rare as that mission type was, I made him my designed warframe for that task and considered him to be the best at what he did.

 

Now? I'd literally rather use Oberon, just to prevent rad procs on my squad.

Yeah, OBERON that I haven't bothered using at all for Lotus knows how long.

Edited March 25, 2017 by NativeKiller

[OoharaSora]

Limbo's problem on mission reward
I cant get reward if I go to extraction in rift. Until now, I've lost an Ayatan sculpture and a Relic's reward.
Please fix this ASAP, thank you

[RiouHotaru]

One thing about this puzzles me.

Why are people starting INSIDE the Rift.

Go around Banishing groups of enemies outside the Rift.  Pop stasis, go into the Rift (or vice versa) and then murder them.

The setup is only convoluted because for some reason you want to start the snowballing from inside the Rift.

[Temragon]

27 minutes ago, RiouHotaru said:

One thing about this puzzles me.

Why are people starting INSIDE the Rift.

Go around Banishing groups of enemies outside the Rift.  Pop stasis, go into the Rift (or vice versa) and then murder them.

The setup is only convoluted because for some reason you want to start the snowballing from inside the Rift.

This may be effective, but unfortunately this is pretty counter to one of the stated goals of making him a team player.

[DarkOvion]

Limbo is dead.

Replaced by a different Warframe wearing its skin.

[DjShankyStab]

The Gameplay of shifting out of the rift to banish enemies then shifting back into the rift to attack them is just too clunky to ignore

the old Banish system of being able to banish a enemie outside of the rift into the rift is better but obviously its just one enemy

 

Could you change the Banish's rule back to it can effect enemies regardless of Limbo's current spot in the Material Plain/Rift but keep it in that it can effect a group of enemies rather then one?

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

Has anyone tried Limbo in Conclave yet?

[Ezergile]

Welp, there is a bug found about the stasis. If You turn it on, go to the rift and try to shoot from Phage (and, probably, any kind of weapon with similar beam-shot mechanic), the game crashes. Figured out in MOT, checked and confirmed in simulacrum.

P.S. and yeah, forcing us to be on the same plane of reality with target to Banish is not good. 1) It means, that in order to banish, I must either go outside and die horribly under the fire, or I should be just good-old Limbo-attraction-doll. 2) Yeah, we can jump left and right, in and out of the rift and constantly freeze people inside the rift, before they will smash our face, but the thing is, that playing in team will make Limbo fall of, because he needs so much time to make up his things, that some other frames will just wipe enemies out of the both planes of existence before Limbo even going to be done with his dashes.

Edited March 25, 2017 by Ezergile

[CircularReason]

For balance, why not make it so when you are on the same plane, banish works as an AOE, but when you are on a different plane, banish works as a single target? This would restore single target control, but create the risk reward of pulling large groups in as well. Seems a balanced middle ground to me.

[Buddhakingpen]

Either way, who cares? New limbo is the best everything else. Dude has a massive damage buff on top of really good cc. They tried to limit the bullets you can shoot, and then you realize that melee weapons dont affect the timer at all.