Harrow feedback and discussion

[Tesseract7777]

1 minute ago, Emolition said:

lol I was more thinking harrow/oberon combo to counter the bad necro/oberon combo =P

They at least somewhat fixed that. I believe they made it so Oberon now uses 1/3 of energy healing them and heals them at 1/3 effectiveness. 

Okay, so maybe not perfectly fixed, but at least they did something. I'm honestly surprised they revisited him again at all. 

[Emolition]

Just now, Tesseract7777 said:

They at least somewhat fixed that. I believe they made it so Oberon now uses 1/3 of energy healing them and heals them at 1/3 effectiveness. 

Okay, so maybe not perfectly fixed, but at least they did something. I'm honestly surprised they revisited him again at all. 

Yeah I haven't been able to see the drain yet as im really heavy cost build before change it took necro 5 seconds to drain my 600+ energy. So this sound like it would still drain it in 15 seconds.

[Rekkou]

I have feeling that Harrow's headshot gimmick is there just to reference baptism. Yeah, this will sounds like one of those thread, but it's really not. I simply can't find any sensible relation in Priest and headshot, the closest thing i can connect both of them is baptism, because both action vaguely related to "doing something to one's head". If anyone can CMIIW, that'll be great. But if i'm right, then this feels like another case of favoring theme flavor on top of gameplay. I'm always up for DE if they want to try something new, priest that just do only healing has been done so many times in other games and in this game we already have Trinity for that. But correlating Priest to headshot seems too much of a stretch  and it will rob the gimmick from a proper sniperframe which we haven't got.

At the moment, the headshot gimmick is not that obligatory anymore, but it's still feel out of place. And we can see that on top of headshot, Harrow also have synergy revolving around shield. His passive doubles the overshield, his 1st gives shield and his 2nd sacrifices it for buff and healing. So why don't enforce this further to his 3rd and 4th? His 3rd can be something like each shield damage you take will give you energy and his 4th can be a simple damage buff if he needs more damage.

If DE wants a frame that rewards headshot, why don't give it to a proper sniperframe? It really won't be funny if we got Sniperframe but his/her abilities didn't give him/her any proper bonus to crit chance (which is desperately needed by sniper btw) because a priestframe already got it.

[AdunSaveMe]

It's there to add more of a skill cap to the character.

[Rekkou]

Just now, AdunSaveMe said:

It's there to add more of a skill cap to the character.

Which can be done in other way and headshot is better suited for warframe actually made based on sniping/precision

[That1Cactus]

2 minutes ago, Rekkou said:

Which can be done in other way and headshot is better suited for warframe actually made based on sniping/precision

Headshots aren't really Warframe specific, nearly any weapon can do a headshot. It's more on how well your shots are placed, and most guns that aren't snipers are accurate enough to get headshots consistently. Hell, most guns can get accidental headshots so really it shouldn't be an exclusive to a rather pointless sniper-themed frame.

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

I don't see the problem. It's not even that hard to land headshots. I'm more concerned about killing enemies at all when paired with frames with nuke abilities. 

[chofranc]

Headshot are by far the easiest thing to do, specially with fast fire weapons like the soma or other with high fire rate. As some say, those headshot bonus are there just to increase a bit the skill cap and also is a unique mechanic.

[Vilmera]

15 minutes ago, Rekkou said:

I have feeling that Harrow's headshot gimmick is there just to reference baptism. Yeah, this will sounds like one of those thread, but it's really not. I simply can't find any sensible relation in Priest and headshot, the closest thing i can connect both of them is baptism, because both action vaguely related to "doing something to one's head". If anyone can CMIIW, that'll be great. But if i'm right, then this feels like another case of favoring theme flavor on top of gameplay. I'm always up for DE if they want to try something new, priest that just do only healing has been done so many times in other games and in this game we already have Trinity for that. But correlating Priest to headshot seems too much of a stretch  and it will rob the gimmick from a proper sniperframe which we haven't got.

At the moment, the headshot gimmick is not that obligatory anymore, but it's still feel out of place. And we can see that on top of headshot, Harrow also have synergy revolving around shield. His passive doubles the overshield, his 1st gives shield and his 2nd sacrifices it for buff and healing. So why don't enforce this further to his 3rd and 4th? His 3rd can be something like each shield damage you take will give you energy and his 4th can be a simple damage buff if he needs more damage.

If DE wants a frame that rewards headshot, why don't give it to a proper sniperframe? It really won't be funny if we got Sniperframe but his/her abilities didn't give him/her any proper bonus to crit chance (which is desperately needed by sniper btw) because a priestframe already got it.

you need a new tinfoil hat

[CosmicHermitCrab]

You guys are forgetting that some enemies don't have heads...try triggering some of the headshot arcane enhancements in a infested or corpus mission and you'll see what I mean. Once the frame is released, I bet people will complain it's too hard to use the headshot mechanic, just you watch!

Edited May 27, 2017 by WingGun

[Chipputer]

2 minutes ago, WingGun said:

You guys are forgetting that some enemies don't have heads...try triggering some of the headshot arcane enhancements in a infested or corpus mission and you'll see what I mean. Once the frame is released, I bet people will complain it's too hard to use the headshot mechanic, just you watch!

They already did, though. That's why you can still get a reward for body shots, now.

[CosmicHermitCrab]

3 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

They already did, though. That's why you can still get a reward for body shots, now.

What's the point in headshooting then?

[Chipputer]

Just now, WingGun said:

What's the point in headshooting then?

Much larger reward.

[Music4Therapy]

I think people are missing the OP's point. He is saying that giving the headshot mechanic to a priest when it could be given to a dedicated sniper frame, of a similar ilk as Mesa, is not fitting and that there should be other ways to reward gameplay that are more centric to the theme.

[Rekkou]

12 minutes ago, That1Cactus said:

Headshots aren't really Warframe specific, nearly any weapon can do a headshot. It's more on how well your shots are placed, and most guns that aren't snipers are accurate enough to get headshots consistently. Hell, most guns can get accidental headshots so really it shouldn't be an exclusive to a rather pointless sniper-themed frame.

It's still more thematically related to sniper than priest. What if Valkyr got reworked again and she got new abilities revolving around headshot? What if Mesa got reworked and she got abilities based on Melee? you gonna say it's okay because all warframe can do headshot and melee?

 

 

[CosmicHermitCrab]

2 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

I think people are missing the OP's point. He is saying that giving the headshot mechanic to a priest when it could be given to a dedicated sniper frame, of a similar ilk as Mesa, is not fitting and that there should be other ways to reward gameplay that are more centric to the theme.

I agree, the mechanics and abilities of previous warframes matched with previous warframe's themes in the past. It should be the same for this priest frame. Priest frame seems unorthodox compared to the previous frames.

Edited May 27, 2017 by WingGun

[Rekkou]

1 minute ago, Music4Therapy said:

I think people are missing the OP's point. He is saying that giving the headshot mechanic to a priest when it could be given to a dedicated sniper frame, of a similar ilk as Mesa, is not fitting and that there should be other ways to reward gameplay that are more centric to the theme.

Finally, thank you

[CosmicHermitCrab]

12 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

Much larger reward.

If the current reward is rewarding enough, why stress over going for a bigger and harder reward to achieve? If the larger reward is necessary, well it's not possible against certain enemies. I feel like it should be focused on getting huge buffs from headshots (given it's possible on all enemies) or none at all.

Edited May 27, 2017 by WingGun

[AdunSaveMe]

37 minutes ago, Rekkou said:

Which can be done in other way and headshot is better suited for warframe actually made based on sniping/precision

I don't see any reason why Harrow can't have it. It fits well in his kit and adds another kind of playstyle.

[Melos-mevim]

while I am happy they have made it so head shots are no longer needed at all to benefit from his powers and I don't see anything inherently wrong with Harrow and this precision theme (gives me the vibe of a holy assassin more than an actual priest) I do see where the OP is coming from and can sympathize that I think some of these ideas could of been saved for a sniper frame.

[PsiWarp]

I don't see the issue. He's a sniper support with a priest theme, his whole kit is built around landing headshots and fighting at range (2 abilities use Affinity Range). His abilities just became little more lenient in getting benefits from bodyshots, but at the core headshots are where it's at.

They can make a different gunslinger/sniper frame later on and still use the headshot mechanic, since DE loves to recycle assets and do similar concepts in different ways. Just look at the headshot or headshot kill mods we have for the recycled conditions.

I also have a feeling his quest might delve deeper into the Red Veil lore and why they prefer the stealthy, 1HKO assassination approach that are in common with headshotting, that it has something to do with Harrow. This is just speculation but he might be a high priest (or THE high priest) of the Red Veil, with the Deacons leading the Syndicate in his absence. Either way, Harrow is involved and I like how it might reflect in the way he plays.

[(PSN)Anemosylva]

Isn't Ivara kinda already the sniper frame? She can make perches and hide at will, Prowl even has a headshot multiplier attached to it...

[CosmicHermitCrab]

After looking at the ability descriptions, I think DE wants him to be able to support a team, but at the same time not become dependent on a team similar to the way ev trinity is. The headshot mechanic kinda helps with this, maybe. I wish there's more support frames in this game, but this support priest frame could be pretty tanky in solo/team game play I feel like. Do we want that, a tanky support centered on headshots? Seems OP, I'm happy either way. People are already complaining about Octavia being OP and wanting nerf, whatever.

I sympathize with the OP's rationality though, it at least makes sense, design wise.

1 hour ago, Rekkou said:

I simply can't find any sensible relation in Priest and headshot, the closest thing i can connect both of them is baptism, because both action vaguely related to "doing something to one's head".

It might be possible for a moderator to give you a warning for that, so might want to change that. Just my 2 cents.

Edited May 27, 2017 by WingGun

[Xekrin]

56 minutes ago, Rekkou said:

why don't give it to a proper sniperframe?

Truthfully, I would not want a proper sniperframe, because this game is severely limited against carefully aimed shots when there is a literal horde running at you.  A frame whose sole purpose is to snipe?  Nah, no thanks.

I like diversity in abilities, dedicating the entire kit to one specific thing would make it boring, at least for me.  Besides Harrow is barely a priest, he just looks like one, he shouldn't have to comply with stereotypes.

59 minutes ago, Rekkou said:

It really won't be funny if we got Sniperframe but his/her abilities didn't give him/her any proper bonus to crit chance (which is desperately needed by sniper btw) because a priestframe already got it.

There is nothing stopping DE from making more abilities centered around critical chance.  They have done quite a few abilities that are very similar already (rhino, nezha?).  I think we'll be fine.  I know you don't think headshots make sense and that's fine, but there is no need to rush to conclusions when we don't even have the frame finished yet.

One more quick thought, don't think of it as rewarding headshots, but exploiting weaknesses, something that priests are keen to do across the ages.

[CosmicHermitCrab]

5 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

Truthfully, I would not want a proper sniperframe, because this game is severely limited against carefully aimed shots when there is a literal horde running at you.  A frame whose sole purpose is to snipe?  Nah, no thanks.

It could be possible. Like a headshot or scoped shot on an enemy causes it to explode in a 30 meter radius would be pretty insane...