Some love for the semiauto rifles and snipers!

[Azamagon]

I really like semiauto rifles. In Warframe, these rifles could need some buffs so they fit better for the now more hectic gamepace of Warframe, which would come mainly in the form of better reliability and QoL buffs. That also includes the Snipers.

I'll just get straight to my numerical suggestions:

The semi-auto rifles:

Latron
* Reload time - Down from 2,4s to 1,9s
* Critical chance - Up from 10% to 25%
Note: Doesn't need much upgrading, considering it's a starter weapon. But the slow reload is very cumbersome.

Latron Wraith
* Reload time - Down from 2,4s to 1,75s
* Magazine size - Up from 15 to 20
* Critical chance - Up from 25% to 40%
* Critical multiplier - Unchanged at 2,5x
* Recoil - Reduced by about 50% or so
Note: This is to really make it feel like the spammy upgrade of the Latron family

Latron Prime
* Reload time - Down from 2,4s to 1,9s
* Magazine size - Up from 15 to 20
* Critical chance - Up from 15% to 40%
* Critical multiplier - Down from 2,5x to 2,25x (to compensate for the huge buff to critchance)
* Recoil - Reduced by about 25% or so
* Prime bonus - Now innately silent! (fits with its firing sound)
Note: Mainly some QoL upgrades, and giving it far more reliability. Also gets its own special Prime buff (like Venka Prime has the combo bonus etc) by being innately silent!

Grinlok
* Reload time - Down from 2,1s to 1,7s
* Rate of fire - Up from 1,67 to 2,75
* Magazine size - Up from 6 to 8 (same could be done to the regular Marelok, for fairness)
* Damage - Up from 120 to 135
* Critical chance - Up from 15% to 35% (which equals 105% crit chance with only Deadly Sequence!). Note: This is to make the Grinlok and Marelok feel almost opposite from one another; The Grinlok is more reliable and stable, while the Marelok is wild and unpredictable (but, also has higher potential).
* QoL fix - Remove the random "dud rounds"
Note: Some of these buffs could also be for a potential upgrade version, like as a Wraith or Prisma, most notably the critchance boost. A fair compromise would be to give the Grinlok a critchance boost to at least 22,5% because then installing both Point Strike and Deadly Sequence would give it guaranteed crits.

Zenith
*** Primary fire (automatic mode)
* Critical multiplier - Up from 2x to 2,5x
* Punchthrough - Now has some punchthrough too, suggested value could be at about a fifth of what the semiauto mode has maybe a 1 meter or so?
*** Primary fire (semiautomatic mode)
* Rate of fire - Up from 1,0 to 2,15
* Critical chance - Up from 35% to 40%
*** Secondary fire (disclaunching)
* Duration is now unlimited (so you can launch the disc with the intention of using it as a pure firingmode shifter too), and the disc is now undestroyable by enemies.
* Disc no longer has an arc, it is launched straight forward (like a rocket, if you will)
* Disc directly attaches to what it hits, instead of bouncing around first. The disc is also unaffected by punchthrough mods.
* Disc now shows the entire profile of the enemy again (instead of the revamp they did where it only shows a "dot", which doesn't work properly)
Note: Yes, make this a dedicated "railgun" semiauto, borderlining into a Sniper kind of rifle! The fullauto is honestly not really needed (as there are already a TON of fullauto weapons in the game). Besides, this change also gives it a feel of complementing the rapid/AoE nature of the Azima and Zenistar.
Removed the suggested "100% semiauto"-revamp, as a lot of people apparently like its automode.

The Sniper rifles:

General sniper rifles changes
* Scopes bonuses removed. The scopes are supposed to be utility for the sake of being able to have variable combat distances. Making it tie into stats makes people prone to use it as a statbooster, instead of the utility it is meant to be.
* Combo bonuses removed. It's unfitting and not very helpful, as it leads to a very odd and stressful gameplay with Snipers.
Note that these two losses are compensated for by giving them more RELIABLE damage, in the form of increased critical chances. THAT was their problem, not their overall damage.
* (PoE confirmed!) Scope sway removed. No other weapon has sway when you aim, it's pointless to give Snipers this penalty. If needed for Conclave though, then keep it JUST in the Conclave.
* Hipfire accuracy improved. They don't need to have perfect aim when used with hipfire, but their current penalties are rather ridiculous. Tone those penalties down please.
* (PoE confirmed!) All Snipers now have innate and variable amounts of punchthrough (Lanka and the Snipetrons have already, in case you didn't know)
* EDIT: The mod Harkonar Scope would thus also need a change. My suggestion would be: At max rank, it adds +40% Dead Aim (meaning, buffing TOTAL damage while aiming). This would be stackable with the Vulkar's Lasting Purity. (additively, as expected, for a total of +100% Dead Aim). This kind of mechanic is fine, if it's OPTIONAL, which most mods are.

Lanka
* Firing mode - Autocharge. What this means is that it will charge automatically when not firing. Simple press the firing button to release your current charge at will! Damage dealt is now also linear to chargetime, rather than how it works now (either 150 or 525, with nothing in between). Note: The autocharge feature is affected by fire rate mods, meaning it remains very similar to how it is now, just with some QoL on the triggering.
* Critical chance - Up from 25% to 50% (or at least 40%)
* Statuschance - Up from 25% to 30%
Note: With this Lanka remains the hardest hitting sniper, but still also the slowest of them all.

Rubico
* Rate of fire - Up from 1,5 to 2,0
* Reload time - Down from 3s to 2s
* Critical chance - Up from 25% to 45% (or at least 40%) (If a Prime version gets added, the basic Rubico could be 35%-ish, while the prime could have 40%+ instead)
* Statuschance - Up from 5% to 10%
* Punchthrough - Up from 0m to 0,5m
Note: This keeps the Rubico as one of the hardest hitting Sniper Rifles due to its massive critical multiplier (and now, also very high crit chance) along with moderate punchthrough, but comes at the cost of STILL having a rather long reloadtime (considering its magsize) and has the lowest status chance of all Snipers.

Snipetron
* Rate of fire - Up from 1,5 to 2,67
* Magazine size - Up from 4 to 5
* Reload time - Down from 3,5s to 1,5s
* Damage - Remains at 175
* Critical chance - Up from 25% to 35%
* Critical multiplier - Up from 1,5x to 2x
* Statuschance - Up from 10% to 15%
* Ammo reserves - Increased from 72 to 120
* Recoil - Reduced by about 50% or so
Note: The Snipetron family thus becomes the "spammier" and agile Sniper Rifles, with great punchthrough, quick reload, a slightly higher rof and lower recoil and more total ammo. However, magsize and moreso the damage are on the lower end of things.

Snipetron Vandal
* Rate of fire - Up from 1,5 to 2,67
* Reload time - Down from 2s to 1,5s
* Damage - Remains at 200
* Critical chance - Up from 25% to 40%
* Statuschance - Up from 15% to 20%
* Ammo reserves - Increased from 72 to 120
* Recoil - Reduced by about 50% or so
Note: The Snipetron family thus becomes the "spammier" and agile Sniper Rifles, with great punchthrough, quick reload, a slightly higher rof and lower recoil and more total ammo. However, magsize and moreso the damage are on the lower end of things compared to other Snipers.

Vectis
* Next reload is done immediately after firing your last shot, instead of needing to wait for fire rate to cycle
* Damage - Up from 225 to 250
* Critical chance - Up from 25% to 40%
* Punchthrough - Up from 0m to 1m
* Next round is chambered immediately after firing instead of waiting for fire rate to cycle
Note: The Vectis remains as one of the more powerful snipers with its unique one-shot style.

Vectis Prime
* Next reload is done immediately after firing your last shot, instead of needing to wait for fire rate to cycle
* Rate of fire - Up from 1,5 to 2,67
* Reload time - Down from 0,9s to 0,8s
* Damage - Up from 325 to 350
* Critical chance - Up from 25% to 45% (or at least 40%)
* Punchthrough - Up from 0m to 1,5m
* Related mod -> Depleted Reload is changed to -30% magsize (still leaves Vectis Prime with 1 bullet at max rank!) and gives +60% reloadspeed, making it more useful for most of the Snipers, not just the Vectis Prime.
Note: The Vectis Prime stays as the very powerful 2-shot Sniper Rifle, thus retaining it as a form of sidegrade/upgrade to the regular Vectis. Overall, its buffs might trumph the regular one for speedkilling though.

Vulkar
* Rate of fire - Up from 1,5 to 2,0
* Reload time - Down from 3s to 2,25s
* Critical chance - Up from 20% to 35%
* Punchthrough - Up from 0m to 0,2m
Note: With this, the Vulkar remains as the "middle-of-the-road" introductionary Sniper Rifle, which is decent at pretty much everything, but not excelling at anything either. Punchthrough is the lowest of them all though.

Vulkar Wraith
* Rate of fire - Up from 1,5 to 2,0
* Reload time - Down from 3s to 2,25s
* Critical chance - Up from 20% to 40%
* Punchthrough - Up from 0m to 0,3m
Note: With this, the Vulkar Wraith would remain as the upgraded "middle-of-the-road" Sniper Rifle, but now more reliable, which is good at pretty much everything, but not excelling at anything either. However, the only real weakness would be the rather low punchthrough.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Azamagon

[elitetrollz]

All snipers should have punchthrough.

'Cause logic.

[KX297]

+1

Agree with the majority of this.

Semi-auto rifles and snipers really need help...

[lightdragon64]

i like these ideas.

[BenzinNinJa]

Agreed. I would really like a good reason to bring my Vectis out from retirement.

[Kalvorax]

alot of these ideas are great for sure. but the latron changes (all varaiants)...one version is crit focused while the other version is status focused, i forget which one off hand as i only have prime and wraith variants.....so why so much focus on a crit stats that falls off on anything not over level 40...

as for snipers, i kind of hope we eventually get one that is SLASH focused, we have way too many that are impact or Puncture....kind of think the Rubico (that was the tenno one right?) could be changed to slash focus...as that would be good for your proposed crit increase.

[(PSN)maso_sage-mode]

approve this so much. good topic sir

[--F--NerevarCM]

I'm against the Latrons buff. Its my main weapon since 2013 and I have a Latron Prime with 6 forma and a Latron Wraith with 5. Its beyond Sortie viable without riven mods. Latrons don't need faster reload speed or more magazine. They aren't automatic rifles. The Latrons already rewards your good aim with massive damage on headshots.

I'll add only 5% base crit chance to the Latron Prime and its enough. You can use a hibrid build, status build or crit build. Its versatile and powerful. The Latron Wraith is fast and reliable. And Latrons don't have recoil, thats just the animation.

I agree that snipers need innate punch through and a complete rework.

[Azamagon]

Oh wow, thanks for all the support and nice comments! :)

43 minutes ago, elitetrollz said:

All snipers should have punchthrough.

'Cause logic.

Yup. I dunno if you missed it or if you are just pointing it out even more, but I did already suggest to add punchthrough to all of the Snipers which already don't have it.

17 minutes ago, Kalvorax said:

alot of these ideas are great for sure. but the latron changes (all varaiants)...one version is crit focused while the other version is status focused, i forget which one off hand as i only have prime and wraith variants.....so why so much focus on a crit stats that falls off on anything not over level 40...

as for snipers, i kind of hope we eventually get one that is SLASH focused, we have way too many that are impact or Puncture....kind of think the Rubico (that was the tenno one right?) could be changed to slash focus...as that would be good for your proposed crit increase.

The Wraith is critfocused (with 25% currently, and I upped it to 40% for reliability) and the Prime is more status-focused (it has 15% crit, upped to 30% for more consistent crits). The only reason to i suggested for them to be buffed in the critdepartment is to increase their damage reliability and to give them headshot-focused spikedamage (since crits on headshots have a hidden 2x damage multiplier), which is fitting of their DMR-like nature.

As for Snipers having a Slash-variant, well the Rubico would actually be kind of bad at it, due to its very low status-chance. The Vectis family could probably be a better choice, considering they have the highest statuschance of them all. Rubico would probably fit better as a Allrounded or Puncture-rifle (instead of being primarily Impact, which the Vulkar already focuses on), considering being Allrounded or Puncture-focused is probably the best way to go with physical damage types if you are going for raw and/or crit damage with little to no status.

[Bouldershoulder]

59 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

Lanka
* Firing mode - Autocharge

I already suggested exactly this change for the Lanka like 2 years ago. After some fuss and misunderstanding from the players, the thread got forgotten.

[Xardis]

Also give Ferrox option to have autofire when you fire, just like Javlok.

[mrrobotto67]

I agree with you with the snipers overall. They tried overcomplicated stuff with that Combo thing. This overall seems better and more viable BUT also i think Snipers should get a +50% (a flat %50 addition, not multiplicative) when you zoom (not getting buffed the more you zoom or other stats). Hopefully this happens (my gut says it is not gonna happen).

[helghastgunner]

I agree with a general cirt chance buff, however..I think you overcompensated the snipers a little too much.

Crit(sure), Magazine(um),Reload(o.o) and Punch-through??? Do remember their cousins,the bows. Why would anyone use a Paris,Dread or Cernos when these buffs make snipers superior?  

 

[IceColdHawk]

Looks very lovely bro. But i personally can't agree with the removal of the combo bonus for snipers. I do admit however that it's kinda suboptimal now. Since you're 99% of the time losing the combo bonus upon a reload or by missing a bullet. I think just removing the timer of the combo would be cool enough. If missing one bullet is too stressful, one possibility would be to reduce your combo stacks by a percentage of like 50% instead of outright 100%. Makes for some skill rewarding gameplay.

[Elvangreen]

Better then what we have now, so sure.

FYI, i have all snipers, and most with a bunch of forma.

 

EDIT: ok read in depth, all good, but HIP-FIRE SHOULD BE HORRIBLE. ITS A SNIPER!

They have to keep the horrible hip-fire or they will be OP.

 

OK, your vectis prime is a superior to all others. and HOW does it have 1.5m when rubico only gets 0.5?..

leave its reload and dmg the same as now, and give rubico at least 1m punch.. have you heard that thing fire?.. its a heavy anti-material rifle.

Also, a large part of the rubico's damage potential comes from its super-fast combo counter, by removing that you are hitting it hard.

Edited April 25, 2017 by Elvangreen

[Elvangreen]

10 hours ago, Kalvorax said:

alot of these ideas are great for sure. but the latron changes (all varaiants)...one version is crit focused while the other version is status focused, i forget which one off hand as i only have prime and wraith variants.....so why so much focus on a crit stats that falls off on anything not over level 40...

as for snipers, i kind of hope we eventually get one that is SLASH focused, we have way too many that are impact or Puncture....kind of think the Rubico (that was the tenno one right?) could be changed to slash focus...as that would be good for your proposed crit increase.

Please don't make my rubico slash. it will never get procs, and you will kill it vs armor.

Stay impact, or go puncture, both are fine, but DON'T make the poor thing slash.

[Fallen_Echo]

[Kalvorax]

1 hour ago, Elvangreen said:

Please don't make my rubico slash. it will never get procs, and you will kill it vs armor.

Stay impact, or go puncture, both are fine, but DON'T make the poor thing slash.

alright alright not the rubico....maybe DE can make a new sniper that IS slash based with a status focus...lord knows we have far too many snipers that are I/P only.

[tsubasakuroi]

I'm not happy on how the Sniper Rework back during U18 arguably made them worse by giving them with more weaknesses.

7 hours ago, Elvangreen said:

EDIT: ok read in depth, all good, but HIP-FIRE SHOULD BE HORRIBLE. ITS A SNIPER!

They have to keep the horrible hip-fire or they will be OP.

With the ranges we usually play and how movement is encouraged for survivability hipfire shouldn't be how it is right now.

 

[Jackviator]

10 hours ago, Elvangreen said:

EDIT: ok read in depth, all good, but HIP-FIRE SHOULD BE HORRIBLE. ITS A SNIPER!

No it shouldn't. It may look like that from a logical perspective, but frankly it does nothing but harms the gameplay of these things and adds yet another flaw to them in comparison to bows. When unscoped, firing these things is like using a shotgun with a single, solitary pellet and absurd spread.

If an enemy gets too close at higher levels (which happens quite often, considering you're using a weapon that massively restricts your FOV) and you don't have time to switch to your secondary or quick-melee them, it could be a matter of RNG if you survive or not. That should never be the case.

---

Anyhow, OP I like the change suggestions, especially in regards to the sniper mechanics. I'm sick of my magical space-ninjas suddenly aquiring parkinson's disease when scoping in, as well as my high-caliber rifle not being able to punch-through enemies while a simple bow and arrow can. :P

[Azamagon]

20 hours ago, -SDM-NerevarCM said:

I'm against the Latrons buff. Its my main weapon since 2013 and I have a Latron Prime with 6 forma and a Latron Wraith with 5. Its beyond Sortie viable without riven mods. Latrons don't need faster reload speed or more magazine. They aren't automatic rifles. The Latrons already rewards your good aim with massive damage on headshots.

I'll add only 5% base crit chance to the Latron Prime and its enough. You can use a hibrid build, status build or crit build. Its versatile and powerful. The Latron Wraith is fast and reliable. And Latrons don't have recoil, thats just the animation.

I agree that snipers need innate punch through and a complete rework.

I would actually beg to differ. I have a great Latron Riven and it makes the Latron Wraith almost passable in the tougher sorties. But I'd rather bring other weapons, due to the Latron family being riled with so many drawbacks: Low mag, slow reload, heavy recoil, unreliable crits and only medium-ish damage. And those issues are EXACTLY what makes them suboptimal choices in sorties even compared to ordinary assault rifles. And while they are indeed not automatic rifles, they aren't snipers either, they are battle rifles / DMR. Giving them mild QoL buffs would do a lot to smooth out their useage.

And "they don't have recoil, that's just the animation" ... really now? It's technically a recoil (screen moves up along with your aim, how's that not a form of recoil?). Even if that somehow could be considered to not be "true recoil" you still know EXACTLY what I'm talking about here, so why become nitpicky about it? What a non-issue to bring up.

20 hours ago, Bouldershoulder said:

I already suggested exactly this change for the Lanka like 2 years ago. After some fuss and misunderstanding from the players, the thread got forgotten.

It was a good idea back then, and it's still good now :) I mean, it would definitely make it feel different from Bows as well.

19 hours ago, mrrobotto67 said:

I agree with you with the snipers overall. They tried overcomplicated stuff with that Combo thing. This overall seems better and more viable BUT also i think Snipers should get a +50% (a flat %50 addition, not multiplicative) when you zoom (not getting buffed the more you zoom or other stats). Hopefully this happens (my gut says it is not gonna happen).

Thanks for agreeing! But umm... 50% buff to what? xD

11 hours ago, helghastgunner said:

I agree with a general cirt chance buff, however..I think you overcompensated the snipers a little too much.

Crit(sure), Magazine(um),Reload(o.o) and Punch-through??? Do remember their cousins,the bows. Why would anyone use a Paris,Dread or Cernos when these buffs make snipers superior?  

 

I honestly don't think I went overboard here. Remember:
* Their magazine and reload-ratio is ATROCIOUS right now. Combine that with low rate of fire and heavy recoil and I think you understand why they don't fit in this hordeshooter game. Even with the reloadbuffs (and only the basic Snipetron got a magbuff of all the Snipers you know?), the low fire rates and heavy recoil means they still will have quite a hard time with hordes of enemies.
* Combine THAT with ZERO crowdkilling capacity (-> hence the Punchthrough buffs). All other slow weaponry, like Launchers and Bows, have something that aids them with crowdkilling. Punchthrough is pretty much a necessity for snipers to handle crowds in any decent manner. And modding for punchthrough is really hard if you are going for a critbuild, especially if you even wanna consider giving them any QoL-mod too. It's not an assault rifle on which can just ignore punchthrough and sweep crowds, the Snipers need all they can get to help out for the game's pace. Also, these are heavy caliber SNIPERS. Punchthrough makes too much sense on them.
* They have rare ammo drops and little in reserves. This further makes it so you can't just spam willy-nilly anyway (modding / Carrier / Sahasa aside). Further reason to give them better hordefighting capabilities
* These buffs also came with the loss of the combo counter and scope bonuses.

As for bows, they have a few things that the Snipers don't:
* Innately silent. Even IF Snipers would become slightly better in open combat (although, I doubt it), Bows are often good choices for stealthy missions, like Spy and Rescue.
* Rapid reloading (Vectis aside). This gives them the ability to fire very frequently, without thinking about longer reloads in between a few shots.
* Body ragdoll. Due to bows having innate punchthrough on charged shots AND the fact that they ragdoll dead bodies for additional linekilling, Bows have a clear advantage.
* No scoping. This is generally considered an advantage, making the Bows induce less "tunnelvision", and thus you can stay more aware of your flanks, compared to Snipers.

Also, Bows will not become WORSE because Snipers become actual competition to them. They'd just be sidegrades. Also, Bows are fun to use :)

10 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

Looks very lovely bro. But i personally can't agree with the removal of the combo bonus for snipers. I do admit however that it's kinda suboptimal now. Since you're 99% of the time losing the combo bonus upon a reload or by missing a bullet. I think just removing the timer of the combo would be cool enough. If missing one bullet is too stressful, one possibility would be to reduce your combo stacks by a percentage of like 50% instead of outright 100%. Makes for some skill rewarding gameplay.

If the combo bonus would be retained along with the other buffs, I'd might consider the Snipers becoming too strong, honestly.
Going for headshots or line-up-kills is skill rewarding enough, imo.

10 hours ago, Elvangreen said:

Better then what we have now, so sure.

FYI, i have all snipers, and most with a bunch of forma.

 

EDIT: ok read in depth, all good, but HIP-FIRE SHOULD BE HORRIBLE. ITS A SNIPER!

They have to keep the horrible hip-fire or they will be OP.

 

OK, your vectis prime is a superior to all others. and HOW does it have 1.5m when rubico only gets 0.5?..

leave its reload and dmg the same as now, and give rubico at least 1m punch.. have you heard that thing fire?.. its a heavy anti-material rifle.

Also, a large part of the rubico's damage potential comes from its super-fast combo counter, by removing that you are hitting it hard.

Note that I said that the hipfire should be IMPROVED, but not become PERFECT? :)
I would generally agreed with the hipfire being rather crappy IF we had rapid weaponswapping. But we don't, thus I propose a slight rebuffing for hipfiring accuracy.

How would the Vectis Prime become superior to all others? It's just a 2-shot Sniper, and it has difficulties putting in Charged/Primed Chamber (and with less potency, unless you ALSO put in Depleted Reload / Negative mag riven, which further gimps your mod slot space) in contrast to the regular Vectis.

It's high punchthrough is because it's seemingly the heaviest ballistic Sniper in the game.
The reason Rubico "only" got 1m is because, while a very powerful Snipers, it's also impact-based in damage, thus less logical to have superhigh punchthrough. That, and also for balance, considering it has a bigger mag than the Vectis (Prime). They all need ups and downs.

While the combo counter helps the Rubico quite a bit indeed, I would actually like to say that it's main damage-potency comes from its very high critmultiplier (3x, compared to all other Snipers at 2x), which I didn't suggest to nerf. Trust me, the Rubico would do GREAT with the suggested changes! :)

Actually, speaking of the Rubico, I don't think it would be unfair to give a slight status-buff to it. It currently has a tiny 5% status chance, compared to the second lowest one being on the basic Snipetron, with 10% (and 15% on the Vandal version, which is a better comparison). Rubico could be buffed to 7,5% -10%, no?

10 hours ago, Elvangreen said:

Please don't make my rubico slash. it will never get procs, and you will kill it vs armor.

Stay impact, or go puncture, both are fine, but DON'T make the poor thing slash.

I already pointed that out to him :)

Thanks for all the responses people! :)

[Azamagon]

14 minutes ago, Jackviator said:

No it shouldn't. It may look like that from a logical perspective, but frankly it does nothing but harms the gameplay of these things and adds yet another flaw to them in comparison to bows. When unscoped, firing these things is like using a shotgun with a single, solitary pellet and absurd spread.

If an enemy gets too close at higher levels (which happens quite often, considering you're using a weapon that massively restricts your FOV) and you don't have time to switch to your secondary or quick-melee them, it could be a matter of RNG if you survive or not. That should never be the case.

---

Anyhow, OP I like the change suggestions, especially in regards to the sniper mechanics. I'm sick of my magical space-ninjas suddenly aquiring parkinson's disease when scoping in, as well as my high-caliber rifle not being able to punch-through enemies while a simple bow and arrow can. :P

Good point here. Like I already replied to him, if we had rapid weaponswapping speeds, I wouldn't really oppose to Snipers keeping their (although still mildened, imo) bad hipfire accuracy.

---

Thanks man! :)
Yeah, it's also weird that SNIPERS are giving you shaky arms, while pulling a bow's string doesn't, something that is (even with WF's more advanced bow-tech being considered), likely MUCH more encumbering than just holding up a rifle.

[Elvangreen]

5 hours ago, Azamagon said:

Note that I said that the hipfire should be IMPROVED, but not become PERFECT? :)

I would generally agreed with the hipfire being rather crappy IF we had rapid weaponswapping. But we don't, thus I propose a slight rebuffing for hipfiring accuracy.

How would the Vectis Prime become superior to all others? It's just a 2-shot Sniper, and it has difficulties putting in Charged/Primed Chamber (and with less potency, unless you ALSO put in Depleted Reload / Negative mag riven, which further gimps your mod slot space) in contrast to the regular Vectis.

It's high punchthrough is because it's seemingly the heaviest ballistic Sniper in the game.
The reason Rubico "only" got 1m is because, while a very powerful Snipers, it's also impact-based in damage, thus less logical to have superhigh punchthrough. That, and also for balance, considering it has a bigger mag than the Vectis (Prime). They all need ups and downs.

While the combo counter helps the Rubico quite a bit indeed, I would actually like to say that it's main damage-potency comes from its very high critmultiplier (3x, compared to all other Snipers at 2x), which I didn't suggest to nerf. Trust me, the Rubico would do GREAT with the suggested changes! :)

Actually, speaking of the Rubico, I don't think it would be unfair to give a slight status-buff to it. It currently has a tiny 5% status chance, compared to the second lowest one being on the basic Snipetron, with 10% (and 15% on the Vandal version, which is a better comparison). Rubico could be buffed to 7,5% -10%, no?

Thanks for all the responses people! :)

Good point on the hipfire, but the old problem was no-one would ever use the scope.. maybe just make it accurate to about 15-25m hipfire? (i don't want it to make the semi-autos redundant)

With your lowed reload, slapping depleted reload would give you incredible fire rate, as while there would be a pause between shots, there would never be a big reload interruption. Overall it looks like it would make the normal vectis redundant with its faster reload, bigger damage, higher crit chance, more punchthrough, and bigger mag.

As for the rubico, i think adding status would not really help, it would be better to focus on its strengths and add say one more round to its mag, keeping it a heavy burst-fire rifle with high potential damage and low status. (maybe making reload 2 sec)

And 1m is what i wanted for the rubico.. its just that you had listed 0.5, and personally i see no problem with it being swapped to puncture if needed.

Overall, good to see you have solid reasoning backing up the proposed changes.

EDIT: harkonar scope allows a constant 2-3x combo multi on the rubico with ease.

Edited April 25, 2017 by Elvangreen

[Lost_Cartographer]

I'm for many of these changes.  I'd say that maybe the Latrons should have a slightly increased firing rate too as a staple semi-auto rifle line up in Warframe.  It's a horde shooter, and for semi-auto's they're already fairly lacking in the DPS department compared to the fully automatic rifles, which have magazine capacity, fire rate, DPS, barely any recoil, reload speed, etc.  In short, semi-autos really have nothing on fully automatics except that they're clumsier to use and a bit more ammo efficient.  Ammo efficiency is a moot point - ammo pads.  Don't even need Carrier for ammo troubles, just saves a gear slot.

[(PSN)DBR87]

Considering Latron Wraith and Latron Prime fire rate currently, none need over 35% crit. With 40% base crit chance Wraith would sit at a modded 100% and slotting in Argon would make it red crit as much as a bow. Soma P and Dex Sybaris have 30% and 35% and I think that's all the Wraith would need. They can still red crit, but you have to work more for it and they don't red crit as much as Dread or Paris Prime.

I think Latron Prime would do better with a 30% status and 20% crit buff. Still, I use both Latron's and they seem fine to me. Snipers could use some QoL buffs definitely.