This Game is Boring

[Elvangreen]

Just now, JSharpie said:

Alright man, enjoy the game, sorry you feel that way, sorry I couldn't get through to you.

Now to the ignoring stage, and hopefully not to the locking stage.

[mplokijuhygtfrdeszqa]

1 hour ago, JSharpie said:

Subjective title aside, it's time I finally faced the facts. This game, from the start to the end, is the same thing. Shoot, run to extract, shoot, run to extract. There is little variation on anything. Even playing different frames feels the same. Whenever a new or interesting mechanic comes out, it's either a gimmick (Operators), worthless (2/5 focus schools), or non-functional/troll heavy (Limbo, and I really like Limbo). This isn't a slight at the devs, I couldn't have done better and I think they're doing their best. Lets face it though, even attempts at reworks just end up being more of the same. Archwing was the last totally new thing we got and it was awesome, the possibilities were awesome! Supposedly they're working on it, but it flopped. Majorly.

So there lies the crux of the problem. This game is boring.

[...]

This is a farming game with proceduraly-generated missions. What did you expect?

Warframe shouldn't be a persistent-world-MMO game in the first place. I feel the game has the same problem as Duke Nukem 4ever: the development team wants to do too much, an infiltration game with an action game with a space fight game with... And every part ends up in an unfinished state. But 7 half-finished projects don't make 1 finished product. In the case of Duke Nukem, they found several successive new producers and the project continued for long as a project; in the case of Warframe, they had to find some money, so they made a release, and now their hands are tied: if they take the time to finish Archwings, they don't produce new content and they cease to gain money and they go bankrupt; so they have to create a new cycron and an octavia and... and this don't give them enough time to re-design unfinished old stuff.

Just look at the base gameplay (without frame abilities): there's literally nothing. There's an infiltration part, where your possibility are "move" and "shot". I mean, the simple act of throwing a pebble to make some noise is a f*cking psychic power! (possessed by Ivara [insert here an image of One Punch Man saying "you have psychic power and you use it to throw pebble. It's a waste."]). There's a parkour part, a bit better, but not that great. You possibility are "move", "jump", "wall glide", "aim glide"; Mario 64 had more different jumps, but no wall glide nor aim glide, let's call it a draw. Mario 64 is 20 years old! It's one of the first 3d platformer, from a time when everything were to invent! When your game hasn't a better gameplay than a 20 years old game, there's a problem. In every current parkour game, your character has hands and he automatically use them when he jump a bit too low or when he climb; not in warframe: your character is often stuck during his jump by some tiny overhang and he cannot climb a f*cking Corpus wall because he's blocked by the guardrail.

How could such a poor gameplay keeps you busy for years? It would be enough in a small fun game, but it can' be interesting for years. But devs don't have time to re-think it, because they have to create new content! And anyway you can't make deep change when 30M people are playing. All they can do is creating a new frame, with new powers that change the gameplay - except as you said, there isn't an infinite number of power you may create.

Warframe could be a very good low-duration game. A futuristic infiltration game with a few psychic powers. Maybe this could bring enough money to finance another project, like a space shooter in the same setting. etc. The setting is awesome and could have made a great license with several games and several different gameplay. But they decided to create everything at the same time in a huge melting pot-game with a persistent world, and now that's what they have to maintain or they go bankrupt. Just enjoy the game while you enjoy it, stop playing it when you stop enjoying the grinding.

 

Edited June 9, 2017 by mplokijuhygtfrdeszqa

[artemisfortune]

2 minutes ago, -SDM-NerevarCM said:

The community already label Warframe as a Casual/ Be a God/ PvE don't need balance, type of game. Majority of the players will never let DE make the game harder or focus only on old mechanics.

You can say " but they only need to change what they want in the game instead of asking the players for permission". If DE do this, then you will see drama on the forums and youtube, death threats and all kind of stuff.

Doesn't matter if the community decisions are reducing the lifespan of this game, players don't care. They care about their OP weapons and items, their K/D ratio and hours played.

But I always have faith in the game. Warframe is DE baby, that means when they see the community decisions are killing Warframe, they will change doesn't matter if the players like it or not. Remember coptering, Tonkor and Synoid nerf?

Yeah, maybe you're right. Hell, I hope your right. People can be cruel. Unfortunately this thread has shown an inkling at how some of this community reacts. All over a video game no less. It just comes down to what DE wants to do in the end.

[AdunSaveMe]

24 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

I feel your pain man, I know you and I have disagreed in the past. Hell, a lot of people in this community view me as their enemy, but I gotta say you, @AdunSaveMe, @MagPrime, @Xekrin even @--Q--Voltage and many others who I can'r remember the exact spelling of their names have raised some good points, had some great arguments, and are great additions to the community. I hope one day DE tries something new. I hope there are some changes. I hope they do something they want to their game instead of trying to satiate an insatiable community, and I wish them luck.

I'm not sure what you mentioned me for here.

[artemisfortune]

Just now, AdunSaveMe said:

I'm not sure what you mentioned me for here.

You're a huge part of the community man. I was speaking in general overall, not just in this thread.

[StinkyPygmy]

1 hour ago, DrBorris said:

I should just edit this into my post above but I'm lazy so...

 

Rant incoming: The community doesn't know best, and the community really needs to learn that. Damage 3.0 died because people are afraid of change, Archwing is stuck where it is because most players will never accept it, and in general most reworks are made with the "must add content" criteria because that is all the community ever begs for. This game has a Beta tag for a reason, it is supposed to mean that DE is able to go back and change stuff, but the community doesn't like that. The community mostly begs for new toys, and responds the best to new toys. Just look at the lead up to TWW. Specters of the Rail was a massive, well-needed rework to the star chart and Prime farming, but the update was poorly received because there was little content. 

The community has put DE in an awkward place, we beg for reworks but only respond to content. No wonder DE is so hesitant with things. 

/rant

I've felt the same way for years. Don't get me wrong, DE isn't perfect, But honestly I sometimes feel like the community does more damage to the game as a whole by attempting to strong arm DE into doing what it wants without even knowing what it wants in the first place. Everytime DE relents, the community then complains about what DE shifted focus from not getting as much attention. Its like trying to please a bunch of whiny neurotic children that have literally no idea whats going on around them. Add to that the fact a huge portion of the most vocal part of the community has no idea what they want, all they know is that they want "it" now.

The community isn't all bad obviously, but I can't help but think that the way it acts as a collective just discourages DE from trying anything new because as far as DE is concerned, they're dammed if they do and dammed of they don't. So it only makes sense for DE to take the path of least resistance and push the boundaries as little as possible. Especially when a huge portion of your vocal playerbase has no idea how to actually play the game and does everything they can to avoid doing so.

 

[--F--NerevarCM]

17 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

Yeah, maybe you're right. Hell, I hope your right. People can be cruel. Unfortunately this thread has shown an inkling at how some of this community reacts. All over a video game no less. It just comes down to what DE wants to do in the end.

Bah man, one thing BLI7Z was right. Staying on the forums reading people complaints can kill your will to play this game.

or even watching Warframe videos from the "Warframe Youtubers"

You see TP doing videos about something OP being nerfed and how this removes "fun"

You see a bunch of youtubers that only make videos with memes and have nothing constructive to offer.

People complaining about lack of end game.

Then you see the same person on other vid saying that nothing should be nerfed and everything should be buffed.

Warframe is a Taxi, DE is the driver and the players are a bunch of passengers telling DE to go to multiple directions.

 

 

 

Edited June 9, 2017 by -SDM-NerevarCM

[Redthirst]

1 hour ago, JSharpie said:

We need fixed level design.

I feel like it's an often overlooked point. In theory, the current random map generation should keep the maps fresh, but on practice it's much worse than a fixed level design. Because Warframe has different tiles mashed together with no rhyme or reason to it and once you know the tiles every map feels the same.

Another issue with level design lies with our movement system. We move so fast and jump so high that there's barely a difference between tilesets. They ALL play exactly the same, because we can just bulletjump our way through everything.

[artemisfortune]

2 minutes ago, -SDM-NerevarCM said:

Bah man, one thing BLI7Z was right. Staying on the forums reading people complaints can kill your will to play this game.

or even watching Warframe videos from the "Warframe Youtubers"

You see TP doing videos about something OP being nerfed and how this removes "fun"

You see a bunch of youtubers that only make videos with memes and have nothing constructive to offer.

People complaining about lack of end game.

Then you see the same person on other vid saying that nothing should be nerfed and everything should be buffed.

Warframe is a Taxi, DE is the driver and the players are a bunch of passengers telling DE to go to multiple directions.

You make a fair point, but my will to play the game was killed long ago, and it certainly wasn't the forums doing.

[AdunSaveMe]

32 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

You're a huge part of the community man. I was speaking in general overall, not just in this thread.

I'm certainly not a huge part of the community. More like a huge part of the complaining minority, cus that's all I do. DE doesn't know I exist. You're one of the few people that knows me just because I post a lot, and it's usually complaints. However, while DE does make a lot of decisions that people see as mistakes, overall I feel they get a lot of criticism that they don't deserve. Straight up just saying "this game is boring, it needs huge changes" is a slap in the face to these people that very obviously enjoy trying to make their game fun. This kind of thing has been going around since closed beta. Do they succeed? Not always. Do they make mistakes? Of course. Can some things improve? Undoubtedly. Is it indicative of the game's demise, stagnation or instability? Absolutely not.

So don't get me wrong, I don't think DE is perfect. I have ALWAYS been hugely critical of them. But this is not the way to get your point across. If you're sick of the game, that's fine, that's perfectly acceptable, but what are we supposed to say here? This thread is pretty much just doom & gloom. Without giving feedback on specific separate points, there's not a lot to discuss, so I feel like it's just going to devolve into people arguing or echoing your comments, rather than actually talking about it in detail.

Edited June 9, 2017 by AdunSaveMe

[artemisfortune]

3 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

More like a huge part of the complaining minority, cus that's all I do. You're one of the few people that knows me just because I post a lot, and it's usually complaints. However, while DE does make a lot of decisions that people see as mistakes, overall I feel they get a lot of criticism that they don't deserve. Straight up just saying "this game is boring, it needs huge changes" is a slap in the face to these people that very obviously enjoy trying to make their game fun. This kind of thing has been going around since closed beta. Do they succeed? Not always. Do they make mistakes? Of course. Can some things improve? Undoubtedly. Is it indicative of the game's demise, stagnation or instability? Absolutely not.

So don't get me wrong, I don't think DE is perfect. I have ALWAYS been hugely critical of them. But this is not the way to get your point across. If you're sick of the game, that's fine, that's perfectly acceptable, but what are we supposed to say here? This thread is pretty much just doom & gloom. Without giving feedback on specific separate points, there's not a lot to discuss, so I feel like it's just going to devolve into people arguing or echoing your comments, rather than actually talking about it in detail.

I'm sorry but it sounds like you read the title and the title alone. I've talked about fixed level design, fix level cap, designing around that cap, re invigoration of the melee system, I've talked about the community, our impact, how I think our impact should be taken, if anything it's at least sparked discussion. I've mentioned everything I've said is subjective, and it is. I haven't been doom or gloom at all. For me, the game is boring, apparently others agree. And it's not like the game is destined to stay boring, but all new content that has come out has been subtle nuances on doing the same thing, and that's boring for me. The varied gameplay that once existed has faded.

[AdunSaveMe]

6 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

I'm sorry but it sounds like you read the title and the title alone. I've talked about fixed level design, fix level cap, designing around that cap, re invigoration of the melee system, I've talked about the community, our impact, how I think our impact should be taken, if anything it's at least sparked discussion. I've mentioned everything I've said is subjective, and it is. I haven't been doom or gloom at all. For me, the game is boring, apparently others agree. And it's not like the game is destined to stay boring, but all new content that has come out has been subtle nuances on doing the same thing, and that's boring for me. The varied gameplay that once existed has faded.

I read it. Which is why I said "without giving feedback on specific separate points, there's not a lot to discuss".

You've mentioned a dozen different things and we can't talk about any of them in detail. This isn't a thread dedicated to one aspect of the game, which is what we need for a proper discussion. This is a thread on the game as a whole, so all we can talk about is the game as a whole. With the structure you've set up it's much, much harder to have a decent dialogue on any one thing.

6 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

The varied gameplay that once existed has faded.

Try and look at it from another perspective: the varied gameplay is still there. It just doesn't appeal to you anymore. It isn't gone, it's just not keeping you in the game. It's like with Skyrim: I played it for ages, because it was varied and fun and there were so many things to do. Then I did all those things. Then I did them again. Now, all that content is still there, but I've had so much experience with it that it's no longer what fuels my drive to play the game.

Perspective is important.

Edited June 9, 2017 by AdunSaveMe

[(PSN)SaintRain459]

I completely agree with jsharpie here. The game has gotten boring and after many years from the PC to the ps4, it's just gotten stagnant. I've also been following the forums alot even though I don't post as often but I have seen how the community pushes DE into a corner making them focus on certain things when others need to be worked on. I hope DE does take that risk of shifting their focus and making the game that they want it to be. 

[artemisfortune]

Just now, AdunSaveMe said:

I read it. Which is why I said "without giving feedback on specific separate points, there's not a lot to discuss".

You've mentioned a dozen different things and we can't talk about any of them in detail. This isn't a thread dedicated to one aspect of the game, which is what we need for a proper discussion. This is a thread on the game as a whole, so all we can talk about is the game as a whole. With the structure you've set up it's much, much harder to have a decent dialogue on any one thing.

Try and look at it from another perspective: the varied gameplay is still there. It just doesn't appeal to you anymore. It isn't gone, it's just not keeping you in the game. It's like with Skyrim: I played it for ages, because it was varied and fun and there were so many things to do. Then I did all those things. Then I did them again. Now, all that content is still there, but I've had so much experience with it that it's no longer what fuels my drive to play the game.

Perspective is important. The game has gotten nothing but variety over the past couple of years. Not just in content, but in core mechanics.

You make a fair point, but I mean, this thread has already been derailed heavily, if there is a specific point you want to bring up, just do it. I don't mean that in a rude way,  but I don't know how to word it better. What I mean is, I'd like to hear your ideas, everyone's ideas, just to discuss.

As for perspective, on paper, there is a ton of content, but how much of it is viable and/or fun? A lot of our viable stuff is boring, and a lot of our fun stuff isn't viable. A huge part of good gameplay is making the fun stuff work well. At least in my opinion.

[Chipputer]

Your opening post is needlessly reductive and is typical of someone who is utterly burnt out on a game and doesn't know what to do about it except complain about general concepts. Yes, we have powers that are the same general concepts wrapped in different packaging but the same could literally be said of any other MMO-esque game in existence right now.

Instead of proclaiming that this game is boring and telling everyone that this other game isn't boring, perhaps you should do as Adun stated and have some perspective on the situation. Not only have you played for years but you've also experienced everything. You've gained knowledge of the meta. You've found/been told of easy cheese tactics that have completely changed your view of how the game's AI and procedural generation works. You've experienced ups and downs within the community that have helped shape how you view the game (particularly due to the community never knowing what they want).

You don't have fresh eyes. Your opinions are colored by your years of experiences and your desire for something fresh and new, hence why you're comparing this game to a completely different game that has next to nothing in common with it except that you grind and it's a real time action game.

Take a break. Come back in a month or two. Heck, don't come back at all. It's your life. It's your choice. But don't come around saying things like, "this game is boring," without taking a large, important, step backward and looking at what has lead to you saying that.

[MagPrime]

Before I jump in I just want to say; I love this game and what DE is trying to do.

That being said, I do find the game to be boring and lacking in many aspects.  Primarily, repeatability for generic planet missions.

Last month my graphics card gave up and I can't play Warframe (or any other game) and that's given me a lot of time to think about why I enjoy gaming overall and more specifically, Warframe, and I've come to the conclusion that DE is a small studio that has bitten off more than it can chew.  They simply don't have the staff for this game, and now they're pulling people from the Warframe team to start on another game, Keystone.

Now, when I say they don't have the staff, I'm referring to the mostly public positions.  Community mangers (which are different from community moderators in that the managers get paid) are too few.  We have two that are highly visible but we need more than that.  They're mainly reactional to whatever the forums throws at them, they aren't setting goals or events for the community to focus on, and I feel that has lead or 2.5+ million strong forum community to wander aimlessly and grow toxic.  As a whole, they need a focus and they simply don't have that.

Another group of staff that is undersupported would be our support staff.  Some tickets are answered within days, others take 3 months to resolve and often mot resolved correctly. (That one is based on personal experience btw)

If their support department is so overworked to the point where it takes that long to resolve simple issues, then DE should hire more CSR's but, for some reason, they don't.

But how do those two things make the game boring?

Well, to be honest, the support dept has nothing to do with my enjoyment of the game.  My experience with them was a something that I felt needed to be pointed out, again.

The community mangers though. They have the unique position of being able to help improve the game because they can give the community a focal point that coincides with whatever the dev team is working on, giving them more information to work with.  As it is, the game is still being worked on and there is a lot of lacking content for the vets.  We've done all of most of what's out there and just need a purpose until the next event or mechanic.

I'm a bit rambly, allergies and migraines are kicking my butt atm

[blackheartstar_pc]

I disagree with the statement that Warframe is boring.  I do agree that Black Desert Online is great. Both Warframe and Black Desert are entertaining.

[peterc3]

Warframe cannot be another game. It is what it is because the people behind it wanted it to be this way.

Every bit of potential difficulty is seen as a personal attack on the players' ability to grind the hell out of the content, burn through everything new (that took months to create) in hours and turn around and tell DE that they are garbage, lazy developers and the community is overflowing with great ideas that DE are obviously ignoring because they are greedy/incompetent/etc.

Why make hand-crafted levels and amplify the sense of repetition. You may see the same tiles, but they will likely be in a different order each time. Now run the same 15 tiles in a row to the same boss... the number of people who stop playing will rocket.

Maybe DE should take more cues from the KMMOs people seem to love so much, loot boxes, keys, absurdly flashy cosmetics. Doesn't exactly sound like Warframe then.

2 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

They simply don't have the staff for this game, and now they're pulling people from the Warframe team to start on another game, Keystone.

Game studios cannot survive with a single ongoing project, it's a death sentence. Keystone no bearing on Warframe's development, and vice versa.

4 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

The community mangers though. They have the unique position of being able to help improve the game because they can give the community a focal point that coincides with whatever the dev team is working on, giving them more information to work with.  As it is, the game is still being worked on and there is a lot of lacking content for the vets.  We've done all of most of what's out there and just need a purpose until the next event or mechanic.

Community managers have no ability to change anything in the game. They don't create events in-game, they don't really do anything but act as a public face to the game and try and keep things to a dull roar. How would community managers impact content for vets? How do they intersect with the ongoing development of the game?

[artemisfortune]

2 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Warframe cannot be another game. It is what it is because the people behind it wanted it to be this way.

Every bit of potential difficulty is seen as a personal attack on the players' ability to grind the hell out of the content, burn through everything new (that took months to create) in hours and turn around and tell DE that they are garbage, lazy developers and the community is overflowing with great ideas that DE are obviously ignoring because they are greedy/incompetent/etc.

Why make hand-crafted levels and amplify the sense of repetition. You may see the same tiles, but they will likely be in a different order each time. Now run the same 15 tiles in a row to the same boss... the number of people who stop playing will rocket.

Maybe DE should take more cues from the KMMOs people seem to love so much, loot boxes, keys, absurdly flashy cosmetics. Doesn't exactly sound like Warframe then.

Game studios cannot survive with a single ongoing project, it's a death sentence. Keystone no bearing on Warframe's development, and vice versa.

Community managers have no ability to change anything in the game. They don't create events in-game, they don't really do anything but act as a public face to the game and try and keep things to a dull roar. How would community managers impact content for vets? How do they intersect with the ongoing development of the game?

Warframe doesn't need to be another game. Again, the only reason I bring up BDO is because BDO has more of a grind yet is somehow more enjoyable.

I agree with you on your second point, the community is... well in fear of getting another warning point, I'll just say subpar, but not everyone, and it has potential to change.

However! I would much rather have 50 hand crafted levels than 5 million possibilities of random-gen that doesn't flow well. If maps were made with parkour in mind, don't you think it'd be more smooth?

Idk why you brought your fourth point up. Kind of came out of the blue and has nothing to do with any topic brought up in this thread.

Yes they can. Plain and simple. They definitely can.

And this is just plainly wrong. Com Managers are the link between us and the devs. They're job is to listen to us, inform us. You're summing up their job into this black and white minimal position when they're a focal point for online games. Of course they help with ongoing development.

[artemisfortune]

38 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

Your opening post is needlessly reductive and is typical of someone who is utterly burnt out on a game and doesn't know what to do about it except complain about general concepts. Yes, we have powers that are the same general concepts wrapped in different packaging but the same could literally be said of any other MMO-esque game in existence right now.

Instead of proclaiming that this game is boring and telling everyone that this other game isn't boring, perhaps you should do as Adun stated and have some perspective on the situation. Not only have you played for years but you've also experienced everything. You've gained knowledge of the meta. You've found/been told of easy cheese tactics that have completely changed your view of how the game's AI and procedural generation works. You've experienced ups and downs within the community that have helped shape how you view the game (particularly due to the community never knowing what they want).

You don't have fresh eyes. Your opinions are colored by your years of experiences and your desire for something fresh and new, hence why you're comparing this game to a completely different game that has next to nothing in common with it except that you grind and it's a real time action game.

Take a break. Come back in a month or two. Heck, don't come back at all. It's your life. It's your choice. But don't come around saying things like, "this game is boring," without taking a large, important, step backward and looking at what has lead to you saying that.

I've taken a step backwards, and what I say stands. The only reason I brought up BDO, and I'm saying this for the fourth time, is because I thought my enjoyment was being robbed by the grind, but that isn't true. BDO's grind is way worse, and way less possible, yet despite also playing that game for years, I'm not tired of it.

So I asked my self why, and the answer is that no matter what I do, there is a goal, and there is streamlined, flashy, working combat and systems. I know DE is still developing their game, and I know it's small, but they're doing some things that I disagree with, and as a member of this community it is both my right and my duty as a player to at least point this out. Throughout the entire post I've said this is my opinion. If you still love this game, great! Enjoy it! But me, and apparently more people, have some issues with it, and I wanted to make those issues heard. Why should the game only cater to new people? Why does it offer me nothing despite putting time and money into it? I'm not saying DE owes me anything, nor do I regret my purchases, but as a veteran there is nothing left for me to do. And that would be fine if this was a single player game, but it's an ever evolving MMO, and that's one of the fundamental points. Not having a real end. And as I've come to realize, the reason behind this is largely us. The community. We're holding DE back in a lot of ways. I understand why they're doing what they're doing, but I still want to try and change it.

btw sorry for the double post.

[peterc3]

1 minute ago, JSharpie said:

Warframe doesn't need to be another game. Again, the only reason I bring up BDO is because BDO has more of a grind yet is somehow more enjoyable.

I agree with you on your second point, the community is... well in fear of getting another warning point, I'll just say subpar, but not everyone, and it has potential to change.

However! I would much rather have 50 hand crafted levels than 5 million possibilities of random-gen that doesn't flow well. If maps were made with parkour in mind, don't you think it'd be more smooth?

Idk why you brought your fourth point up. Kind of came out of the blue and has nothing to do with any topic brought up in this thread.

Yes they can. Plain and simple. They definitely can.

And this is just plainly wrong. Com Managers are the link between us and the devs. They're job is to listen to us, inform us. You're summing up their job into this black and white minimal position when they're a focal point for online games. Of course they help with ongoing development.

Now play BDO for the same amount of time you have played Warframe, I can 100% guarantee you will be at or past the point of frustration/apathy for it as you seem to have now for Warframe.

Why would this community change to something better when it's probably at the same point every other gaming community is at. Things change, people are unhappy. Things stay the same, people are unhappy. People are asked to contribute, DE didn't copy-paste their totally legit idea into the game verbatim. People aren't asked, why is DE so cold and uncaring. They literally can't win in engaging a lot of the community.

Sure, let's throw away all the tiles and start new. This might have worked before years of development had started. At this point, all they really can be expected of them is to add new tiles that make use of the new Parkour.

Yep, they filter the devs position out to the community and then filter the general goings on of the community to the devs. What could the CMs do here that would make people happy? Events that would just piss off people for being time-limited/skill gated/needing a grind (the horror)/involving clans that are actually clans.

[artemisfortune]

Just now, peterc3 said:

Now play BDO for the same amount of time you have played Warframe, I can 100% guarantee you will be at or past the point of frustration/apathy for it as you seem to have now for Warframe.

Why would this community change to something better when it's probably at the same point every other gaming community is at. Things change, people are unhappy. Things stay the same, people are unhappy. People are asked to contribute, DE didn't copy-paste their totally legit idea into the game verbatim. People aren't asked, why is DE so cold and uncaring. They literally can't win in engaging a lot of the community.

Sure, let's throw away all the tiles and start new. This might have worked before years of development had started. At this point, all they really can be expected of them is to add new tiles that make use of the new Parkour.

Yep, they filter the devs position out to the community and then filter the general goings on of the community to the devs. What could the CMs do here that would make people happy? Events that would just piss off people for being time-limited/skill gated/needing a grind (the horror)/involving clans that are actually clans.

I've been playing BDO since it's NA release.

If they can't win, then they should just do what they see best for the game, not what we think we see best, but I'm not convinced developers can't have healthy relationships with their communities and still be successful.

Why not do this? Why not at least add some completely handcrafted non-gen levels as well as what we already have?

That's not what I meant. I meant it's the community managers that read our suggestions and take them to the developers when they think it's something worthwhile. You think @[DE]Rebecca doesn't at least have some hand in how the game is shaped?

[BLI7Z]

Now that I calmed down, let me express myself:

Warframe is a unique game. It's pointless to compare it to other games, even if you talk about grind/enjoyment potential. Some people like the farm, some people like the flow of things in Warframe how they actually are, and don't forget new people who are starting to experience this universe as something totally new. What I expect from DE is that they just add and change whatever they feel like, and ADAPT to what they throw at us. I don't want to demand anything to them. They've done a great job with all they have done, and they deserve that we, as a "community" as people here always state, give them their time to polish and balance all they see fit. If you are wishing to discuss something relevant as feedback, please put the correct title, and make a difference between every part of what you want to brainstorm. If not it just feels agressive, just by the title, and the title is what is first seen. As I said before, fun is something VERY subjective. I understand the burn out of doing EVERYTHING in the game and having less and less posibilities with no good enough rewards, but that means that if you really like the game, you'll find your ways to have fun and push further the limits of what they give to us. 

I just think that if you want feedback/brainstorm, you should do it in an appropiate way, and not just denouncing DE saying Warframe is boring, and spitting a not detailed list of how to enhance what you wish to change. 

I will say it again, Warframe is a unique game, with it's own flow and it's own times for change. Don't try to bring pressure to the Devs, 'cause they know what they are doing. I know many people think that DE is just trying to do more than they can, and that this game is a mix of things that might not go together. But make this mental excercise: They are doing it the best they can and they are also humans with their mindset and things they want to do with their creation. 

If you want change NOW, that change won't be better than what we already have. Give it time, it is evolving into something not seen before. Enjoy it meanwhile, brainstorm in the correct way, and if you don't like something 'cause it's hard or not enjoyable, go to another game, or do another thing ingame. After all, it's just a game, a hobby, it should ba balanced and as most perfect as it could be, but it isn't a matter of life and death. Things work better when you give them time to be how they are supposed to be WHEN they are supposed to be.

I wish you all the best, whatever you want to do, wherever you want to go. I'll stay in Warframe as long as it exists, just because I enjoy it's gameplay regardless of rewards and/or balance. And I will embrace any change they want to make, 'cause I respect DE and I trust their decisions. 

And again, if you want civilized and organized questions/answers, be what you expect from the others, starting from the title. 

[peterc3]

1 minute ago, JSharpie said:

I've been playing BDO since it's NA release.

If they can't win, then they should just do what they see best for the game, not what we think we see best, but I'm not convinced developers can't have healthy relationships with their communities and still be successful.

Why not do this? Why not at least add some completely handcrafted non-gen levels as well as what we already have?

That's not what I meant. I meant it's the community managers that read our suggestions and take them to the developers when they think it's something worthwhile. You think @[DE]Rebecca doesn't at least have some hand in how the game is shaped?

OK, so that's still not that long ago.

They are doing what they see as best. Otherwise, they'd shut it down and do something new.

Content which will be burnt through even faster than usual. They'd have to find some way to make that less "expensive" and somehow keep people not bored of the map.

Yes, that's what they do. The flood of garbage that she and others have to wade through to find the interesting bits is the issue. Now politely convey to people that every idea isn't God's gift to mankind, they can't just shoehorn some other game into this one, that they aren't trying to reach through your monitor and steal your money, so much as run a business and not feel like unemployment could happen at a moment's notice.

[DatDarkOne]

5 hours ago, DrBorris said:

I should just edit this into my post above but I'm lazy so...

 

Rant incoming: The community doesn't know best, and the community really needs to learn that. Damage 3.0 died because people are afraid of change, Archwing is stuck where it is because most players will never accept it, and in general most reworks are made with the "must add content" criteria because that is all the community ever begs for. This game has a Beta tag for a reason, it is supposed to mean that DE is able to go back and change stuff, but the community doesn't like that. The community mostly begs for new toys, and responds the best to new toys. Just look at the lead up to TWW. Specters of the Rail was a massive, well-needed rework to the star chart and Prime farming, but the update was poorly received because there was little content. 

The community has put DE in an awkward place, we beg for reworks but only respond to content. No wonder DE is so hesitant with things. 

/rant

I don't consider this a rant at all because it contains truth.  Preach!!