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(XB1)EternalDrk Mako

Umbra warframes [Discussion & Appreciation][*spoilers*]

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1 hour ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

350?cb=20171015035902Image result for sentient warframeRelated imageRelated image

what about wisps ^, they seem like mini sentients  and are "only" in plains so far. also the spawn rate is known to be higher at night with fellow vomvalysts /edilon

we consume these to create armors/arcanes/weapons , all we know is they are strange rock like creatures that spawn and are very small , similarly the edilon is created from local matter and accumulated sentient parts /cells recombining 

 

in regards to edilon, they could have salvaged pieces from one after an initial formation and used it with orokin tech to make vlad prime ?

dunno , it will be curious to see how it fits lore wise , as it wont have a quest , presumably parts drop for edilons then ?

 

Wisps are not confirmed to be Sentient though do seem to be creatively related. The Ostrons are known to use Wisps to aid in the crafting of items but its not said they are destroyed in doing so. Considering that the Wisps do not resemble the Eidolon forms of the Sentient but instead a complete Hunhow Shard or the remains of the Original Sentient it can not be 100% connected either way. Still, according to the game itself, they are unknown stone life-forms that inexplicably float around areas of water contaminated by Eidolon energy. The Eidolon is alternately a Sentient bunch of Synovia collecting former sentient parts and surrounding debris as prosthetic body parts to continue wandering around looking for what it lost, but not really having the will or memory to know exactly what it was. Vomalyst are alternately little floating heads with little limbs underneath, seeming to exist as physical forms but also as a form out of phase with reality.

In regards to the Eidolon, Sentient parts are totally immune to Technocyte and Orokin Elite that would know how to make a warframe would have been long dead by the time the Eidolon was formed - aside from Ballas who was the administrator essentially of the warframe program - and even then since this somehow changing of the nature of Sentient materials would happen after the Old War, it would preclude prime versions something DE would be unlikely to do. This leaves only time travel or reality warping. In Plague Star we also use Eidolon energy touched materials to assist in making Eidolon Phylaxis, a cocktail made to help poison technocyte like the Plague Star boil. This further from the Sentient side makes such a pairing impossible not even bringing the fact that warframes become conduits of Void energy as we are linked to them which would destabilize the Sentient materials. This is the lore-wise element of the game so far.

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2 hours ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

what about wisps ^, they seem like mini sentients  and are "only" in plains so far. also the spawn rate is known to be higher at night with fellow vomvalysts /edilon

Whilst theory on my part, what if the Wisps aren't actually Sentient in origin, but some form of creation by the Unum to monitor the plains and locations of arisen Eidolon? They're strictly tied to the shorelines of the plains, and are utterly benign...whilst also floating into the sky and vanishing if left be.

Could they be some kind of...cheap DIY remote camera construct using stones or the like, to check on Eidolon activity, and thus more common at night so Unum, and thus her Quills, are appraised of the locations and positions of Vomvalysts, Teralysts and the like. Not like the circle thing doesn't seem like a camera or eye to me, after all.

Of course, this is just conjecture on my part. As it is, we just don't know what Wisps are and odds are, probably aren't going to any time soon.

Apologies for going on, any rate. Just figured might offer an alternative explanation really.

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38 minutes ago, Blakrana said:

Whilst theory on my part, what if the Wisps aren't actually Sentient in origin, but some form of creation by the Unum to monitor the plains and locations of arisen Eidolon? They're strictly tied to the shorelines of the plains, and are utterly benign...whilst also floating into the sky and vanishing if left be.

Could they be some kind of...cheap DIY remote camera construct using stones or the like, to check on Eidolon activity, and thus more common at night so Unum, and thus her Quills, are appraised of the locations and positions of Vomvalysts, Teralysts and the like. Not like the circle thing doesn't seem like a camera or eye to me, after all.

Of course, this is just conjecture on my part. As it is, we just don't know what Wisps are and odds are, probably aren't going to any time soon.

Apologies for going on, any rate. Just figured might offer an alternative explanation really.

No, that is an interesting view. They are seemingly observing spots or locations that the Eidolons can appear or disappear back into the waters and none show at the coasts for instance. While they do have an appearance reminiscent of Sentient, it could be that they are some form of observers used by the Quills or Unum.

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12 hours ago, Urlan said:

No, that is an interesting view. They are seemingly observing spots or locations that the Eidolons can appear or disappear back into the waters and none show at the coasts for instance. While they do have an appearance reminiscent of Sentient, it could be that they are some form of observers used by the Quills or Unum.

And in some ways, if the "observer" theory is true, their absence on the coast makes a kind of sense; despite the presence of Vomvalysts there, Teralysts (least as I've seen) never go toward the coastal water bodies. Similarly, they're only where Eidolon vapour is generated, which is absent along the coastline.

Thinking about it, if they're extensions of the Unum in some form, could being able to use the Wisps as material be like how she grants the Ostrons the flesh of the tower as needed? Though again, this is conjecture and supposition. Just interesting seeing where things can go if followed through.

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4 hours ago, Blakrana said:

And in some ways, if the "observer" theory is true, their absence on the coast makes a kind of sense; despite the presence of Vomvalysts there, Teralysts (least as I've seen) never go toward the coastal water bodies. Similarly, they're only where Eidolon vapour is generated, which is absent along the coastline.

Thinking about it, if they're extensions of the Unum in some form, could being able to use the Wisps as material be like how she grants the Ostrons the flesh of the tower as needed? Though again, this is conjecture and supposition. Just interesting seeing where things can go if followed through.

Sure, but another point of interest is that we can make Wisps, with Unairu; which would suggest that the creatures are at least partially of Void energy origins. They of course are not exactly the same, but it further supports Wisps not being Sentient.

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7 minutes ago, Urlan said:

Sure, but another point of interest is that we can make Wisps, with Unairu; which would suggest that the creatures are at least partially of Void energy origins. They of course are not exactly the same, but it further supports Wisps not being Sentient.

Wasn't aware the Unairu ability manifested something physical, what with not personally having it as yet, but an interesting point. Granted, if Wisps are of the Void...makes for a whole other mess of disturbing implications if true. Though would offer why employing them in construction of amps occurs, as you'd figure Sentient fragments would make poor substance to channel Void power through.

Funny how much intrigue surrounds essentially cute, fancy pet rocks. Least, from where I stand. Sometimes important information can come from the most innocuous of sources, after all. Apologies for going on, any rate.

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I agree! Cetus Wisps are strange and mysterious things, and I love it when the setting is fleshed out in a logical and engaging manner.

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makes me wonder if we will have to 

a) discover more umrbas via mini quests or taming

b) convert volunteers we find to make new umbras 

that could get dark...and with how the plots turning not unlikly 

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I think the only real legit concern some people might have about the introduction of Umbra variants of 'Frames...is that they have the potential of invalidating regular 'Frames with regard to the upcoming "New War".

Granted Umbral mods can be used by regular Warframes, but you can't add Umbral polarities to slots to optimize mod capacity and those Umbral mods can take up a whopping 45 capacity when maxed out and used together (and who in their right mind wouldn' use them together?). The other issue is the ability to switch out to your Operator and your Umbra 'Frame being able fight alongside you. That gives players a huge tactical advantage in a fight - especially against Sentient enemies.

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3 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

I think the only real legit concern some people might have about the introduction of Umbra variants of 'Frames...is that they have the potential of invalidating regular 'Frames with regard to the upcoming "New War".

Granted Umbral mods can be used by regular Warframes, but you can't add Umbral polarities to slots to optimize mod capacity and those Umbral mods can take up a whopping 45 capacity when maxed out and used together (and who in their right mind wouldn' use them together?). The other issue is the ability to switch out to your Operator and your Umbra 'Frame being able fight alongside you. That gives players a huge tactical advantage in a fight - especially against Sentient enemies.

I don't see much wrong with Umbra being stronger than normal warframes as Primes already represent this. To be fair though, it could always be setup so enemies are alerted about gear that is so swimming with Void energy like Primes and perhaps Umbra needing Normal mode warframes or weapons instead. Perhaps DE Steve will give us more information about what the 'Umbra' line of warframes will be represented by and how the rest will come eventually - what plans DE has with Umbra and Umbra mod sets.

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This thread is still alive and growing even after the release of the one we have been waiting for.

I still say that the Umbra line up should be the Hunters of the frames, starting with Excal and going with the others.

Then we should have a differing lineup for the Support and then the Stealth. 

 

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12 hours ago, (XB1)DShinShoryuken said:

This thread is still alive and growing even after the release of the one we have been waiting for.

I still say that the Umbra line up should be the Hunters of the frames, starting with Excal and going with the others.

Then we should have a differing lineup for the Support and then the Stealth. 

 

well we know the umrbas are able to use umbral mods while umbra weapons sue sacrificial mods

further these mods all work in tanget against sentients better then the standard counterparts and excalibur U is able to debuf sentients on radial howl 

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2 hours ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

well we know the umrbas are able to use umbral mods while umbra weapons sue sacrificial mods

further these mods all work in tanget against sentients better then the standard counterparts and excalibur U is able to debuf sentients on radial howl 

Which is sorta weird isn't it? Nothing in the Sacrifice suggested Umbra being gifted intentionally with Anti-Sentient abilities or modifications but he has them. In fact, considering that Umbra was not made until after Ballas had betrayed the Empire, it makes even less sense. I don't doubt that will be the case, but so far, its a separation of game-play and story until explained.

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18 hours ago, Urlan said:

I don't see much wrong with Umbra being stronger than normal warframes as Primes already represent this.

Neither do I. If a comparison between between Excal P and Excal U is any indication, Umbra Frames will have stats that are identical to Primed versions. 

That said, the only significant difference would be the Umbral polarities and the fact you can have your 'Frame cover you when you decide to go Spoiler Mode...which is very handy at times.

I'm just saying that some people might see Umbras as having the potential to invalidate / sideline even Primed 'Frames when the New War finally gets to us - and I can kinda see why those people would be concerned.

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1 minute ago, MirageKnight said:

Neither do I. If a comparison between between Excal P and Excal U is any indication, Umbra Frames will have stats that are identical to Primed versions. 

That said, the only significant difference would be the Umbral polarities and the fact you can have your 'Frame cover you when you decide to go Spoiler Mode...which is very handy at times.

I'm just saying that some people might see Umbras as having the potential to invalidate / sideline even Primed 'Frames when the New War finally gets to us - and I can kinda see why those people would be concerned.

 

1 hour ago, Urlan said:

Which is sorta weird isn't it? Nothing in the Sacrifice suggested Umbra being gifted intentionally with Anti-Sentient abilities or modifications but he has them. In fact, considering that Umbra was not made until after Ballas had betrayed the Empire, it makes even less sense. I don't doubt that will be the case, but so far, its a separation of game-play and story until explained.

dunno it could be linked into this new strain that created the umrba line

helmith being the generic method used on normal/prime 

its possible the strain with sentience gained the ability to naturally be more effective at using the umbral/sacrifical mods as any frame can use them but only an umbra reduces their cost 

though with radial howl im unsure if that was intended or ballas accidentally created the greatest weapon against sentient , a frame that can debuf sentient 

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I wonder if part of it could tie into just how mods are created in the first place. Could it be possible that Umbral mods aren't made but, like Umbra himself...grown? Though that then would still require it being influenced by Umbra's hatred of Ballas and the Sentients for its fate; poor term as it might be, a sort of "directed evolution" as part of the transformation from Dax to Umbra.

Sadly, I've nothing to really lean on as a basis for mods beyond general "the Orokin are very partial to incorporating organics into their technological constructs".

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14 minutes ago, Blakrana said:

I wonder if part of it could tie into just how mods are created in the first place. Could it be possible that Umbral mods aren't made but, like Umbra himself...grown? Though that then would still require it being influenced by Umbra's hatred of Ballas and the Sentients for its fate; poor term as it might be, a sort of "directed evolution" as part of the transformation from Dax to Umbra.

Sadly, I've nothing to really lean on as a basis for mods beyond general "the Orokin are very partial to incorporating organics into their technological constructs".

well we know the skijiat is forged from umbras flesh [and possibly the nikana we saw in the 1st trailer], as it allows for sacrificial mods as well its presumably grown from him

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2 minutes ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

well we know the skijiat is forged from umbras flesh [and possibly the nikana we saw in the 1st trailer], as it allows for sacrificial mods as well its presumably grown from him

Indeed. So, if Umbral mods are just as much cultured as the Skiajati from the same material...does make me wonder really. But, again...relies on mods being grown as much as anything else.

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Well based on that we could see also more weapons and mods with upcoming umbra frames as their signature weapons.

Edited by (PS4)reddragonhrcro

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14 minutes ago, (PS4)reddragonhrcro said:

Well based on that we could see also more weapons and mods with upcoming umbra frames as their signature weapons.

 

30 minutes ago, Blakrana said:

Indeed. So, if Umbral mods are just as much cultured as the Skiajati from the same material...does make me wonder really. But, again...relies on mods being grown as much as anything else.

possible frames with their own backstory and more lore info would be nice , could further expand on some non prime weapons or even some comparable sidegrades to some primes 

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1 hour ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

 

dunno it could be linked into this new strain that created the umrba line

helmith being the generic method used on normal/prime 

its possible the strain with sentience gained the ability to naturally be more effective at using the umbral/sacrifical mods as any frame can use them but only an umbra reduces their cost 

though with radial howl im unsure if that was intended or ballas accidentally created the greatest weapon against sentient , a frame that can debuf sentient 

We do not know that Helminth was the genetic method used to create normal or Primes. Helminth is mentioned specifically as a method to create the bio-weapons and Umbra strains. Silvana is stated to have made the normal warframes before going AWOL after making Titania in Silver Grove at the behest of Margulis. Considering that both would have likely been horrified by people being turned into warframe like infested creatures just for their intent of making surrogate bodies as rehabilitation for the Tenno children, its likely Ballas did not share this fact until possibly after Margulis was executed.

Considering that no other warframe shares these polarities, and Umbra was made after Ballas went rogue, its unlikely he specifically changed Helminth's particular strain to allow the Umbra Excalibur to display such abilities or modifications. Considering though that Ballas normally did not make warframes, but rather administer their creation, it is possible that Helminth could have done this on its own but if so how? Technocyte is not shown to be particularly effective against Sentient and the creatures are in fact totally immune as per the Plague Star Event, so something would have to be specifically done to somehow make this Umbra warframe good against Sentient.

 

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We should also consider that Umbra was kept prison on Lua and Lua ended being moved into the void. Maybe being kept there all this time while exposed to the void granted it more power?

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1 hour ago, (PS4)reddragonhrcro said:

We should also consider that Umbra was kept prison on Lua and Lua ended being moved into the void. Maybe being kept there all this time while exposed to the void granted it more power?

Perhaps, but in setting, primes are practically brimming with Void energy from their long exposure in the Void and stored in Void containers. They show now such modification from their original specs. Could it be that some unexplained modification was made to Umbra after Ballas completed the poor Dax's transformation and forced him to kill his own son? If so, who did this modification? The only person we know who had any access to the Lua facility was Ballas but who else could have accessed Lua before or during the moon's being hidden in the Void?

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2 minutes ago, Urlan said:

Perhaps, but in setting, primes are practically brimming with Void energy from their long exposure in the Void and stored in Void containers. They show now such modification from their original specs. Could it be that some unexplained modification was made to Umbra after Ballas completed the poor Dax's transformation and forced him to kill his own son? If so, who did this modification? The only person we know who had any access to the Lua facility was Ballas but who else could have accessed Lua before or during the moon's being hidden in the Void?

The Lotus maybe? It's a stretch but she probably had such access. But then again the reasons as to why, how and what for are still there. To prepare for a possible sentient invasion?

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