Update to my Ember Nerf post

[Ollnozz]

2 minutes ago, Ollnozz said:

Indeed. I'm reading around and checking on what other have to say about Ember, the general sentiment is that people take her as being a very proficient sweeper for low-level missions (Enemy level under 60) but she falls off when levels start to scale, armor comes into play or when her energy is depleted. Granted, Accelerant can rectify this quickly, but it takes more precious energy. Truth be told, it seems that her energy consumption is meant to play in as a weakness, but when solved by blue pizzas it does create a lot of problems.

Another weakness based on some Wiki comments is that Ember doesn't do self-sustain well, she can't take hits and has no means (save the momentary stun from Accelerant) of mitigating damage or replenishing lost hitpoints, making her a bit of a glass cannon. I do agree that WoF requires "no skill" because it aims for you.

[JoshuaAnders]

35 minutes ago, (Xbox One)D3L7A Z7R1K3 said:

I knew that... And its not to play how I want its just not fun having everything die before you arrive. Matchmaking is optional so you should not feel forced to take it to solo because ember can wreck everything just activating 2 abilities firing ignis constantly. And someone mentioned day form equinox but that takes special modding and knowledge...its not hard to have high power strength on ember and you win.

Sorry man but you've completely ignored my arguement so this is pointless to continue now.

[Tuoweit]

1 hour ago, JoshuaAnders said:

If you want to take your time in an exterminate. Go solo or with friends.

Generally speaking people join public missions with the intention to speed run them. So more often than not you have at the very least, one guy with a loadout that enables them to rush through the mission like it's nothing. A lot of the time they're using a suped up Ember, yes, but not always.

There are literally countless loadout combinations that can completely decimate enemies in exterminations, it's not just Ember. It just so happens that Ember is the most efficient way to speed run certain missions at certain levels.

The issue is not that the mission is fast, the issue is that the OP doesn't actually get to do anything other than count charred corpses.

[Kjahla81]

I never WoF in teamplay. That's just me. Only will if asked. 

Edited July 26, 2017 by Kjahla81

[low1991]

2 hours ago, (Xbox One)D3L7A Z7R1K3 said:

-text-

& To title.

Doesn't seems like you hate asking for this nerf, but rather wishing for this nerf due to some personal likes or somehow contradicts with your gameplay.

Ember user, here. Yes nerf her WoF... in the meanwhile let's nerf all warframe' ability that has the capability to CC/Unbalance (w certain mods)/ wipe mobs. Wait... what's the difference between frame now if almost all their ability are the same?

What's the point if you nerf one 'OP' ability and not nerf the other 'OP' abilities from other frame?

Time to go play CoD or FB4...

 

Edited July 26, 2017 by low1991

[JoshuaAnders]

26 minutes ago, Tuoweit said:

The issue is not that the mission is fast, the issue is that the OP doesn't actually get to do anything other than count charred corpses.

Logical fallacy.

For that to be an issue, the mission would've had to have been extremely quick.

If the Ember in question didn't kill all enemies in quick succession, then OP wouldn't have an issue in contributing and getting some kills himself. Unless he actively chose to wander around and loot instead. In which case he is essentially expecting other players to not kill for his sake. Which is unfair.

From what OP has told us, the missions have to have been completed quickly, otherwise as I said, he would've had more than a fair chance to kill enemies.

[Dwolfknight]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Elvenbane said:

Please no. Sound Quake needs to be changed, it's not fun and people that use it are boring. Ember with firequake is a godsend on the defector walking simulator mission, least painful way to solo it I've found.

You just have to learn how to use it, whenever an ally is doing something that will get them killed, I use soundquake and stunlock the whole map

[JoshuaAnders]

Just now, JoshuaAnders said:

Logical fallacy.

For that to be an issue, the mission would've had to have been extremely quick.

If the Ember in question didn't kill all enemies in quick succession, then OP wouldn't have an issue in contributing and getting some kills himself. Unless he actively chose to wander around and loot instead. In which case he is essentially expecting other players to not kill for his sake. Which is unfair.

From what OP has told us, the missions have to have been completed quickly, otherwise as I said, he would've had more than a fair chance to kill enemies.

Even if it meant rushing ahead of the Ember and killing them before the rest of the team caught up.

I've done this myself on occasion. I quite like the competitiveness of it. Everyone rushing around trying to get as many kills as possible.

But of course, the problem is that if OP does this himself, then he is essentially making a hypocrite of himself because he is denying other people kills instead of it being the other way round.

So again, the issue isn't what's happening in the missions, that's to be expected, it's just how this game works.

The issue is OP's subjectivity on the matter.

Which means this isn't really a necessary topic for the forum, it's just something he's going to have to deal with.

[Tuoweit]

8 minutes ago, JoshuaAnders said:

Logical fallacy.

For that to be an issue, the mission would've had to have been extremely quick.

If the Ember in question didn't kill all enemies in quick succession, then OP wouldn't have an issue in contributing and getting some kills himself. Unless he actively chose to wander around and loot instead. In which case he is essentially expecting other players to not kill for his sake. Which is unfair.

From what OP has told us, the missions have to have been completed quickly, otherwise as I said, he would've had more than a fair chance to kill enemies.

It's not a logical fallacy.  The mission can still be fast while everyone has a chance to contribute, if players aren't using giant-room-clearing abilities/weapons.  Or even if they are using them, but take turns doing so.

 

Edited July 26, 2017 by Tuoweit

[Windy_Wind]

let's be real thou, ember is a really bad frame if not trash and her CC is really mediocre. the Only thing she does well is killing trash mobs at low level

Edited July 26, 2017 by Windy_Wind

[mael9740]

Just now, Windy_Wind said:

let's be real thou, ember is a really bad frame if not trash. the Only thing she does well is killing trash mobs at low level

And the knockback with augment?

And the accelerant buffing fire dmg?

And the fire dmg add for allies with augment?

 

Maybe with a trash build it can only kill trash mob at low level.

[Windy_Wind]

Just now, mael9740 said:

And the knockback with augment?

And the accelerant buffing fire dmg?

And the fire dmg add for allies with augment?

 

Maybe with a trash build it can only kill trash mob at low level.

Knock back with augment <<<< blocked by ancient healers and nullifiers.

accelerant buffing fire dmg <<<< if you go to higher level, fire damage is really bad and most of the time, your teammates will go for element combo like viral, corrosive, radiation because they just outclass fire damage. 

And the fire dmg add for allies with augment <<<< This is probably the only nice thing but requires sacrificing a mod slot and again, fire damage isn't that good. 

Maybe with a trash build it can only kill trash mob at low level <<<< with a good build, ember still struggles badly because she's squishy and her buff isn't very impressive. Rhino, Octavia  can do much better at almost every aspect.

Don't get me wrong, I want ember to be better. That's why She needs to be criticized like old Excalibur or limbo to get a buff.

 

[Sloan441]

2 hours ago, Hawk_of_the_Reborn said:

Quit the missions they're in, they don't like it when they're by themselves

Actually, there's a significant chance they're playing this 'frame because you can't count on teammates being even minimally functional or staying in the mission to reach significant rewards.

Case in point is farming interception missions for relics. I'd rather playing something like Trinity, but often have to run EmberP or Equinox because you can't count on your teammates through 4 waves. It's just that simple.

I'd rather you play with me, but I can't count on it. So I have to use 'frames that make it easier to get through what I need to get through to get what I want. I can do it with Trinity, but it's a royal PitA. I can do it with EmberP and it's fairly simple and pain-free.

[mael9740]

6 minutes ago, Windy_Wind said:

Knock back with augment <<<< blocked by ancient healers and nullifiers.

accelerant buffing fire dmg <<<< if you go to higher level, fire damage is really bad and most of the time, your teammates will go for element combo like viral, corrosive, radiation because they just outclass fire damage. 

And the fire dmg add for allies with augment <<<< This is probably the only nice thing but requires sacrificing a mod slot and again, fire damage isn't that good. 

Maybe with a trash build it can only kill trash mob at low level <<<< with a good build, ember still struggles badly because she's squishy and her buff isn't very impressive. Rhino, Octavia  can do much better at almost every aspect.

Don't get me wrong, I want ember to be better. That's why She needs to be criticized like old Excalibur or limbo to get a buff.

 

It may need some scaling then. Idk how they would buff her without her being broken af.

 

And nullies are another story, a cancer bandaid, badly developed. They can pull out Limbo of the Rift, even tough it's another @(*()&#036; dimension. They affect you from the regular dimension, but you can't affect them from the rift.

[P0Pz]

5 minutes ago, mael9740 said:

And the knockback with augment?

And the accelerant buffing fire dmg?

And the fire dmg add for allies with augment?

 

Maybe with a trash build it can only kill trash mob at low level.

So you add 2 aug mods and get punished for using 2 slots NOT for your frame and on top reducing total power level of all abilities for 2 'side path abilities' ?

You lose stats for your frame and for all other abilities while using 'Aug-Mods'.

 

Ember is no insta killer. She is a DoT (Damage over Time) frame. Her ulti 'ticks' damage impulses arround this 'unit'.

If you do not have all the 'corrupted ability-mods' you can not increase her damage output on her 4 high enough.

If you have 'the current maximum' highest corrupted mods to focus this ability you can ofc increase its power to a certain point. 

This is only available if you kinda reach 'high level' status ... if you shameful can call it that...

Going back in lvls where enemies can only withstand a lower 'tier' damage output, it is normal (in all games), that those will fall like leafs from trees.

Going back at its max tier range, WoF damage output is doing so less dmg per tick that it would take ages to take foes down but she got no time for that cause she has zero withstands to offer. Zero. The more the lvl increases the more WoF is less worth. There is NO way of further improvments. Dead end.

1 shoted. Her and other frames abilities stop to take effect. Even this 'random stun lock' added by this fake Aug Mod, does not realy helps ember to survive nore increasing her damage which is her goal...to do DoT... her abilities are scaling down and got nothing to compensate that. No abilities to help her survive underlinies SHE NEEDS to damage as much as possible or she goes down. Running glass-cannon and further up...just running....using 'hand weapons' bc all abilities stoped to do effective damage.

Wrong balancing. Wrong mod placments. Wrong ability mods which are none, but 'corrupted ability mods'. No direct ability improvment ways for eachone possible.

Its DE's foult that nothing work as it should. Lazy as they are. Trying to hide theire fails behind shiny mods that are worth nothing trying to cover there is no real ability or frame improvments but 'hand-weapons'...conclusion..damage by hand weapons is the ONLY thing focused by WF's improving system. Resulting in: You 1shot or get 1shoted...

[tarfeef101]

2 hours ago, (Xbox One)D3L7A Z7R1K3 said:

What are you talking about the enemies she cannot kill are removed from the engagement by constant knockdown utilizing the firequake augment. So yes please tune ember slightly to bring her in line with the other frames.

Um...

a) the augment isn't that consistent

b) then tune the augment if it bothers you that much, not ember

c) again, don't play with ppl using her then

d) if she is going up on higher levels, basically all she provides is that cc. which is no better or worse than other CC frames. except she has a tiny health pool.

[kyori]

2 hours ago, (Xbox One)D3L7A Z7R1K3 said:

Ok so how do you nerf Nova, Nyx, Oberon, Nekros and Frost and Volt. Don't just do the obvious ones and I'm sure the general community can see where I am coming from saying ember has gotten quite annoying

I'm not asking for ways to nerf frames lol....  So you said it, you want it nerfed because it annoys you. So with every nerfies out there, they want things nerfed because they are not happy with it... it is an ego thing, and not a good reason to call for nerf.. 

[DarkRuler2500]

"I dont want them to play like they play because thats not the way i play. Nerf it!"

Pretty much this. Just play like you want and if you are not able to accept others liking other stuff/playstyles play solo.

[Shockwave-]

6 hours ago, (Xbox One)D3L7A Z7R1K3 said:

Alright so I main Warframe on Xbone and just started on Ps4 which is fun to earn the stuff back whenever I am bored on playstation. Anyway everytime I jump into an exterminate 99% of the time its an ember burning everything before any other player and having the firequake augment mod equipped to knock and burn the heavier units. Its just press Y, Triangle, or 4 to win basically and its frustrating like mirage with simulor or zephyr with tonkor and I am glad that the frequency of those pairs has dropped significantly. Ember and Ignis need to be added to that list as its not fun following an ember even if its fast. Its not fun being a ninja with dead enemies before you can even fire your weapon or melee an enemy. I know I will get flak for this as in destiny whenever something needed a fix ie special ammo everyone was hurt which I can relate too but this is entirely different in warframe we are powerful but not at the expense of others aka limbo rework

No, ember is useful in low level missions, that's her niche. You can do almost the same thing with a suped up ignis wriath on a low level exterminate, especially if you bring a Mirage. There is no way you are not going to find a high level player decimating low level content. If DE puts alerts on low level content that high level players need this will always be the case. Nerfing ember because you can't kill that fast is ridiculous.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

Any AOE weapon/frame ability destroys low level things.  This isn't a balance problem.

If you're trying to level something up and you keep running into WoF embers go play solo.  Or find a group of friends to play with.

I still occasionally level stuff myself and I personally find being in missions with Resonating quake banshee or world on fire embers to be annoying.

But I take my free affinity and leave after the next 5 waves.  You should use dark sectors.  It won't be as quick as leveling in a meta place if you're doing all the killing.

but it's still reasonably fast.  I'd say if you run 4 dark sector survivals and leave at 20-30 min each one you should be maxing out whatever it is you're leveling.  Make sure the sector you're in has bonus exp for the weapon you're trying to level.  Frame wise just go into the highest sector that you can handle.

and only bring the frame and one fully leveled weapon.  not even a pet.

As if your weapon kills something the exp is shared equally between it and the frame. but if the frame kills something 75% of it goes to the frame and the other 25% goes to the weapon.

[(PSN)xX-GunHound-Xx]

For starters, what level of enemies were you going against. 

In most sortie mission, especially against grineer, doing damage is never the issue, since she can never do enough damage where I feel as if I haven't played the game for its duration. 

Also, her damage is so minimal, in any serious setting, that she has been converted into a purely a CC frame, so that augment is one of her saving graces to help keep her from falling prey to any stray bullet. Since most frames work better on a performance level. 

There are WAY more frames that can do damage more than she can. She should actually be buffed.

Edited July 26, 2017 by (PS4)xX-GunHound-Xx

[(PSN)Solaire145]

5 hours ago, (Xbox One)D3L7A Z7R1K3 said:

I knew that... And its not to play how I want its just not fun having everything die before you arrive. Matchmaking is optional so you should not feel forced to take it to solo because ember can wreck everything just activating 2 abilities firing ignis constantly. And someone mentioned day form equinox but that takes special modding and knowledge...its not hard to have high power strength on ember and you win.

Yes, it is how you want to play. You want to be a meaningful member of the party and contribute to the overall goal of the mission right? Well when you enter a public match then there is a 1 in 4 chance that someone does not care and wants to end it as fast and efficiently as possible. Ember is the best at that and you can't fault the frame or the person that chose to use that method. Especially low level scrub missions where if you sneeze to hard and the enemy dies. You don't even have to be exceptionally well modded to murder everything like its nothing. Like Jangkrik said, if it wasn't Ember, it'd be Equinox or Excalibur or someone else. But that is Ember's forte, take that away and the frame is practically useless.

You don't like feeling useless. I get that. But that's on you, not the player or the frame. 

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

Did I read a Zephyr complaint? 

[Hypernaut1]

I can't feel sorry for someone complaining about Ember. She's only powerful enough to kill steal at low levels. In higher levels WoF is just CC and added damage. Not saying Ember can't still wipe the map, but at certain point it takes skill for an Ember to be effective and at that point any player still getting the most kills deserves to.

She's almost like the offensive polar opposite to Ash. As enemies get tougher, her kill count wanes, for Ash as they get tougher, his kill count rises.

[TaylorsContraction]

I think it's silly that you complain about this. I did as nitain ext alert recently brought my mag to the corpus mission. I killed everything with a 260% range pull, ended mission with 150ish kills my teammates had 5 kills to their name. Should we nerf pull now as well?

Vets are constantly pulled into low level content through alerts, kuva, fissures. Players that built their frames for two hour run and gun survivals in the void are now instead slaughtering enemies below lv 50. What do you expect? Every single Warframe I have will wipe low level enemies this way not just ember. The problem to me stems from the design choice that pushes end game players to low tire missions.