[Update 21.4.0] Hydroid Revisited Feedback

[Kisutora]

This revisit is much appreciated! Being able to cast abilities while in Undertow? Entering Undertow while in the air? Awesome! The visuals are really good, but the fish kinda just sits there. I feel like it should do something. Honestly, great job keeping the abilities intact and making them better.

Edited August 10, 2017 by Kisutora

[Darkvramp]

this is not a rework, this is quality of life changes, i hate that you call this a rework, he still sucks asss, if this was all you were going to do then why bother.

[Duckboy3825]

The tentacles honestly don't really do anything to higher level enemies. They just flop them around and make them harder to hit. It would be nice if they were to grab onto the enemy or something and keep them still. Or have more damage and some sort of effect to make then easier to kill.

[Maliwan116]

Can't see to pull enemies while in Undertow if pickups are drawn in by vacuum.

[eXotic]

The hydroid rework is.. to say the least under whelming.. you asked for feedback, heres my 1 cent in the money pouch..

- His first basically just got a press1 to do mediocre (not even) damage,

- His 2nd ability is fine, you can move around faster, buthonestly useless in 80% of the game maps, also buggy with ancients

- 3rd ability should be completely removed from hydroid, add something that makes him more mobile, you made a fast paced shooter where you jump, parkour and fight hundreds of enemies, WHY DO WE STILL HAVE AN ABILITY THAT TURNS YOU IN TO A PUDDLE.

- 4th ability is trash, only got a visual rework, doesnt scale at all, still ragdolls enemies like crazy making them basically unkillable spinning targets of death, i was extremely excited when i saw that kraken, but in game, only 1/3 of it actually shows up compared to the image posted on the forums, it pops up for 5 seconds and does nothing.

i didnt expect much from this rework to be honest, but i was extremely excited, but this isnt a rework, its a visual and slight QoL improvement, 

Why dont you sit down and actually REWORK his abilities, remove his puddle and for gods sake, please just change his passive, its useless.

[Duckboy3825]

1 minute ago, Darkvramp said:

this is not a rework, this is quality of life changes, i hate that you call this a rework, he still sucks asss, if this was all you were going to do then why bother.

Not a rework, a revisit.

He's a little more useful but overall this revisit doesn't make a huge difference. I just hope DE continues to listen to the community and make more changes.

Edited August 10, 2017 by Duckboy3825

[EchoesOfRain]

Tempest Barrage: Why the hold to charge? just increase the duration. Allow more power strength to increase the amount of rain pellets.

Tidal Surge: Let it carry enemies that have been Undertowed along. It's frustrating when I have a pool of enemies, but can't carry them along with me.

Undertow: The Kraken head from Tentacle Swarm? Move it to here. Let allies shoot at the kraken head to deal damage to all enemies in the undertow. It's still annoying that enemies trapped are just "lost" until they slowly die, or until Hydroid releases them.

Tentacle Swarm: Enemies still move around too much after being caught. Neither me nor my allies can shoot the enemies reliably. 

 

I will say that Undertow's pull-in mechanic feels amazing, the best part about this revisit. 

I wish Hydroid's effects were also a bit more visible. The water looks nice, just too transparent on its own

[Twistedsparkle]

these are just my first impressions but still I did manage to notice quite a few areas that would still need special touches

-range feels severely nerfed, this is bad.. should be buffed instead
-passive is still the ridiculous mess it was before (come on its a pirate....think treasure)
-why am I so slow in undertow? (bump it up yeah?)
-tempest barrage and tentacle swarm still do not home in on enemies and feels inconsistent
-undertow is still very afk friendly (I know some people disagree but atleast I think this is bad)
-undertow damage is still very low and doesnt scale despite dmg buffs
-there is no charging animation for tempest barrage


what I like
+undertow and tidal surge work together pretty nicely
+you can cast while in undertow
+much needed survivability
+new water effects are beautiful

I still think undertow shoulda been turned into a proper stealth ability but oh well

[Dusteon]

So, his 1 exists still. It's...ok I guess? Not a bad ability. Not a particularly good ability either, but it's ok. His 2 is still S#&$. His 3 had the range absolutely gutted, in return for a grab that has a lower grab range than his old puddle's range was, and his 4 had the range gutted in return for a S#&$ty 'hold to charge to undo PART of the nerfs we did'.

Just, really DE? Did you have to gut his range on the only 2 skills he's used for in return for some 'synergy'? Was Hydroid so overbearing he required nerfs, despite having bad damage, unreliable CC, and being very energy hungry despite having no energy refunds AND a tiny energy pool?

[Retequizzle]

I would change Tempest Barrage into a channeled ability.  

As it is, there's little reason to cast Tempest Barrage even with his augment, because the damage is still pretty underwhelming and the knockdown proc still feels vastly unreliable compared to any of his other abilities.  Which is also saying a lot considering his other abilities don't feel much better than they did before either.  Tidal Wave doesn't feel effective without his augment.  Tentacle Swarm does a fair amount of damage but they still seem to be pretty blind when it comes to what they attack.

Undertow ramping up damage the longer enemies are submerged is great though.

[2old4gamez]

Nice job!

[Odeusus.exe]

5 minutes ago, Navarchus said:

Hey guys, REALLY happy you used so many community suggestions!
Overall I think he's in a great spot right now and got much of what he needed - however I think the passive still needs to be updated. Making it trigger on ground finishers rather than ground slams works much better because Hydroid already knocks over all enemies with any of his abilities. Having a passive that requires him to use melee to knock down enemies feels very unnecessary.
Making it work with ground finishers instead would make it work perfectly with his abilities.

Yeah completely agree, but they broke his Curative Undertow augment in the process... It doesn't heal anything anymore :(

[Rekkou]

Tempest Barrage : The additional duration is quite nice

Tidal Surge : Only QoL and synergy? no any other buffs?

Undertow : This ability seems the one that changed the most. It's much more practical and it's pretty fun to drag the enemies to you. Not sure if it's actually anymore useful though

Tentacle Swarm : This is the one that i still don't get, what is exactly the purpose of this ability? It doesn't do much damage. As CC, it will grab and swings enemies around making them much harder to hit. And charged Tempest Barrage now can match Tentacle Swarm's duration while pinning enemies to the ground. So as CC, Tempest Barrage is much better ability than Tentacle Swarm. And please don't say Pilfering Swarm, it's just depressing when an ultimate ability devolve into a mere farming tool. Can the tentacles at the very least hold enemies still instead of flailing them around?

Overall, the reworks barely improve anything, it adds more QoL and synergy, but neither actually made the abilities anymore useful. I'll have to say it's very underwhelming. Hydroid is worse than Oberon, yet the reworks is also worse than Oberon's rework. I sincerely hope you guys do more follow up buffs.

[---UMBRA---]

DE Please return old 3rd skill radius. New one make hydroid disable potential like a trash. 

Also make 3rd skill damage exponential scaling, not fixed number scale.

For 1st skill I can offer you make 1st skill disable enemy guns like mesa 2 skill, make them open for finishers   like excalibir blind and make enemy recieve debuff that doubles tentacle damage (ult) 

Edited August 10, 2017 by ---UMBRA---

[DreamsmithJane]

15 minutes ago, Odeusus.exe said:

I'm absolutely loving the rework, however it broke the Curative Undertow augment for Hydroid... I'm unable to heal anything with it.
And yes I do have positive power strength etc

I have the same issue. It does nothing. Can't even heal myself with it.

[Redonious]

Hydroid can move now in undertow. That is fantastic. However, I just tried to use him in a spy mission (corpus) and I was detected while going through lasers while in undertow. 

I don't think that should be the case as the physical body is now water. Plus he is a pirate and pirates love booty and should know how to refract lasers and sonars ect so he can get to the booty! Swiggity Swooty!

There is also no charge animation for his #1 like there is for his #4. He just stands there looking like a deer and then finally does the original animation.

 

Also, shout out to the wifey Danielle! Gurl you so foine you blow my mind. 

[Duckboy3825]

Undertoe would be much more useful if it pulled enemies with you when you use Tidal surge. As of now it does not.

[Windy_Wind]

My thought on the rework.

Pros

It's really fun, seriously. I've never had any fun with hydroid until now. And his CC is much better than before

Cons

-Despite the fun factor, the rework doesn't really make hydroid actually competitive.

1.Tempest barrage remain pretty much the same aside from the charge mechanic.Corroding barrage doesn't seem to work if they are under the effect of undertow.

2.It still costs too much energy for what it really does, energy reduction would be appreciated. 

3.Undertow can actually kill thing now, wow but the damage is still relatively low. I think it should be multiplying instead of adding. Surge should cost less energy by half because the movement is halved and it should also drag enemy if they re under the effect of undertow too.

4.It's still really lack luster, and have no real synergy at all. I think that if the enemy is under the puddle, the tentacle will pick them up and drown them again, doing so will double the tick damage from undertow

[WMan22]

I LOVE this rework. You guys did a pretty fine job on it. I just tested in the simulacrum against 20 level 150 heavy gunners and was able to dispatch all of them without dying. The biggest thing that helps this rework is being able to click on enemies outside of your undertow, cast tentacle swarm on your undertow, and then finish off the bunched up enemies with a weapon of choice. This pretty much completely fixes undertow and tentacle swarm for me.

But there are a few things I would change.

While I did accomplish this feat against the gunners, it came at the expense of ALL of my energy, and that's with a primed flow and streamline on.

When you're in undertow, the cost of every one of your other abilities should be reduced by half (ESPECIALLY Tidal Surge) kinda like how Saryn can totem cast viral on her decoy. As of right now, Hydroid just eats up so much energy despite being for all intents and purposes except three, fixed. This would incentivize players to combo abilities while in undertow much more.

As for that "Except three", Tempest Barrage still feels incredibly unreliable. The barrage needs to actually seek out targets inside of the cast range, instead of falling randomly in the general area like rain. But a way you could fix this even better than that is if the spash AoE from the tempest barrage was increased in size. There also needs to be a much bettter indication that it is hitting targets that are currently undertowed. I'm not seeing those corrosive procs pop off using corrosive barrage on undertowed targets. EDIT: Fixed

Secondly, when you tidal surge with targets in your undertow, it should take them with you, not un-drown them when you move out of the range you initially took them into.

And finally, the damage ramp up in undertow should be increased by a margin no less than 10% faster. Not by much, but just a little more to seem more effective and fun to use. As of right now, it feels like the damage ramp up of undertow feels underwhelming, even though it appears to ignore armor, which is good and should be kept.EDIT: Fixed

Aside from these 3 things, I think this is a fantastic rework worthy of praise. Hydroid finally feels good to use, and might become my new favorite after a few more buff tweaks.

Edited August 16, 2017 by WMan22

[Myscho]

So basically is almost useless as before, you just add that some abilities can be used while other stil active

And no, shield and armor are not helpfull

But stay positive, you can still tweak him untill Prime release

Edited August 10, 2017 by Myscho

[Duckboy3825]

Let's take a moment to think about what Tentacle Swarm does to benefit the player. At low levels it kills enemies. But at high levels all it does is just flops them around and make them more difficult to hit, not a benefit. Needs to do something different.

[spyvspyaeon]

after the update my HUD is not working. It's completely frozen. no minimap, no reagents count, no energy value (frozen too). excavations and this is It, no HUD working

[Stoner]

Undertow range stealth nerf? Why?

With 250% range its less than half as big as before...

[Aeriax]

There's still a pretty big issue with Tempest Barrage. It's great that it can be made to last longer and do more damage- but what good is damage when none of the explosions hit anything? If World on Fire can track enemies in an area around Ember when they're present then why can't this be the case for TB? Especially considering that it seems to still do impact damage. Grineer laugh at this ability. The RNG of whether or not a projectile will actually hit something combined with impact damage really not being very good overall mean Tempest Barrage is little more than inefficient CC.

Suggestions:
-Tempest Barrage would benefit from acquiring target seeking ability
-Blend TB's damage type to be more effective against different factions, perhaps a mix of impact/cold instead of pure impact so as to be able to better deal with some types of armored enemies, as currently it's wildly suboptimal.

[Corial]

Mostly positive, but there is still few flaws;

Base range/radius of all abilities is little small. (Consider some changes).

While using his 3 - Undertow the energy used to move per meter is little too much considering his average-low energy pool, forcing to feed the efficiency, which in other hand lowers the speed of his Tidal Surge even further because of reduced duration, and the speed at which Hydroid moves while submerged is.. honestly VERY slow. (Consider changes to some of the extra energy costs and Hydroid's total Energy pool).

Duration for his Tempest Barrage and Tentacle Swarm are little short still. (2-5 seconds more to base duration can make huge difference (also is it intentional for our new friend to sink back into depths so early before the ability even ends?...))

Now for my favorite positives;

New Water visuals 

Ability to cast all other abilities while using Undertow.

Ramp up mechanics.

More Armor (and Shields, still waiting for shield gating Scott!..)

Must have improvements;

Higher energy pool.

Tweaks to synergy and their costs.

Range improvements.

 

That is my review of Hydroid Revisited in nutshell.

PS. his passive should be changed. It serves close to no purpose for him.