[Update 21.4.0] Hydroid Revisited Feedback

[(PSN)Tomplexthis]

1 minute ago, -Defeater- said:

this was a QoL buff. they didnt make him better, just added synergies that dont exactly boost his effectiveness. hes more fun to play now, yea, its fun to suck people into his 3, but why? why waste time sucking things into his 3?  fun to play doesnt exactly mean good. 

id rather have a fun game then a "good" game

fun games are entertaining, good games get boring

[(PSN)Tomplexthis]

i usually stay away from forums because of the diluge of constant arguments about cheese

 

 

or the ones like "BKAGLGSALGSDLGHDF DE you Touched A warframe i never liked OR USED, BLALGSLGSALGSLGD" 

 

then Scott was like "..."  and drinks his beer

 

Edited August 10, 2017 by (PS4)Tomplexthis
meh, iam gonna go run a sortie for that good ol' anasa treasure again

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

HEEEEEEEEEY all here Krauserlols with another one of my rework ideas, originally this was going to be Zephyr's rework but I ran on some troubles with a certain mechanic I wanna add and well since Hydroid was already on my list and his Prime is coming soon might as well contribute to the rework ideas.

Right now Im just posting the whole rework raw. No pictures of Spoiler folders cause things have been unpredictable down here in Venezuela, lots of work and now lights keep going out randomly, its been stable for now and they supposely fixed the issue but im taking no chances, Originally i was going to post this before Hydroid's rework but... yeah life beated me to it (this time), well i say rework but DE called it a revisit, after reading through it yeah thats a good word for it, revisit, tweaking whatever sounds best to you.

Here are my ideas for an actual Hydroid rework, who knows maybe they get so inspired by it that they end up adding it to the game! a man can dream right?

The data is all complete but I will update it with pictures and better presentation so long as the lights stand, Here it is hope you guys enjoy it.

 

Update List:

Spoiler

10/08/2017:

- Added Spoiler version to all abilities.

 

 

 (Passive) Underhanded Tactics: Hydroid has a couple of tricks to have an edge against the enemy.

Spoiler

 

- Strike em when down! Increases All damage done against knocked down enemies by 100%.

     - This includes Enemies already knocked down and recovering from the knock down until they have stood up.

     -Includes damage from Hydroid's Finishers, guns and abilities.

- Escape Plan: When downed Hydroid will become a small gooey puddle, he can't fire his gun but can move at normal walking speed and revive other downed allies.

     - Reviving an ally will also heal Hydroid from his downed state.

     - If an ally begins reviving Hydroid he is unable to move.

 

 

(1) Hydro Buckshot: Hydroid shoots pressurized water at foes in front of him dealing damage, staggering and shredding armor.

Spoiler

 

Reworked Tidal Surge

- Hydroid shoots pressurized water in a cone in front of him. The wave has an initial width of 1.5 / 2 / 2.5 / 3 meters, disperses at a 30° angle, and travels over a distance of 5 / 10 / 12 / 15 meters.

- Cone spread where Hydroid is aiming.

- Deals 50 / 125 / 150 / 200 Puncture damage, stagger and permanently removes 20% of max Armor to all enemies hit.

     - Damage and Armor Shred are affected by Strength Mods. The Armor Shred cannot go below 10%.

     - Unlike Corrosive the Armor Shred will count max Armor and not current Armor.

     - "Projectiles" are only aesthetic, damage, stagger and armor shred will be instantly apply to all enemies in the cone.

- If an enemy is on a puddle when hit by Hydro Buckshot the damage and armor shred are reapplied every two seconds so long as they remain in a puddle.

     - Multiple instances of the effect can stack on the same target with each instance having its own timer.

     - Last two more seconds if the target exits a puddle.

     - Buffs on Hydroid will not increase the damage if the buff was applied after the instance of damage. It can only be increased by decreasing the enemy's resistances or applying the buff before he uses the ability.

     - Each instance of damage has a 40% of applying the Puncture's Weakened effect.

- Airborne targets will fall to ground if connected.

- Staggered enemies will be vulnerable to finishers for 3 seconds. Unaffected by Mods.

 

Ability Data:

Buckshot Damage: 50 / 125 / 150 / 200 Puncture damage.

Range:

- Cone Wide, Start: 1.5 / 2 / 2.5 / 3 meters.

- Cone Wide, End: 5 / 10 / 12 / 15 meters.

Armor Shred: 20%

Cost: 20 Energy.

 

Ability augments:

Disarming shot: Reduces range for a chance to disarm enemies.

- Reduces the range of Buckshot by 5 / 20 / 35 / 50%.

     - Augment's Range reduction is accounted last after the Warframe's Power Range.

- Has a 20 / 40 / 60 / 100% to disarm enemies, striping them to melee. Unaffected by mods.

     - Melee enemies are unaffected by the Disarming effect.

 

MODS EFFECTS:

Duration Mods:

- Unaffected.

Strength Mods:

- Buckshot damage and Armor Shred.

Range Mods:

- Buckshot range.

Efficiency Mods:

- Energy Cost.

 

 

 

(2) Tempest Barrage: Call down a cannonball barrage on a location.

Spoiler

 

Refined Tempest Barrage

- Now Marks a squared area.

- Cannonballs are "fired" in a 90° angle above the square.

- Each use of the ability sends a single barrage of cannon fire.

- Each barrage consist of a line of cannon balls falling on the area from bottom to top.

     - Each cannon ball has a 5 m explosion radius. Unaffected by mods.

     - Each line of cannonballs crash about 0.5 seconds from each other, starting from the bottom to the top.

     - Each cannonball has about 3 m separation between each other.

     - Increasing range adds another cannonball every 3 extra meters. Reducing range removes cannonballs. Work when increasing both vertical and horizontal range.

- Can also Mark enemies where the barrage will follow them before crashing down.

- Barrage begins 0.5 seconds after casted.

- Each Cannonball stops at the first solid object hit, dealing damage and knocking enemies in an area around it.

- Enemies can (and will) take damage from multiple explosions.

- Launching a barrage on a nullifier field will damage the barrage and all enemies around it but not enemies inside the bubble.

- The barrage's AoE will damage the Nullifier's drone if the cannonballs fall near it.

 

Ability Data

Cannonball Damage: 50 / 75 / 100 / 150 Impact Damage.

Cast Range: Unlimited.

Marked Square: 3 / 6 / 9 / 12 meters.

Cannonball Explosion radius: 5 meters.

 

Augments

Corroding Barrage: Each cannonball has a chance to proc Corrosion on enemies.

UNCHANGED AUGMENT

 

MODS EFFECTS:

Duration Mods:

- Unaffected.

Strength Mods:

- Cannonball Damage.

Range Mods:

- Marked Square radius.

Efficiency Mods:

- Energy Cost.

 

 

 

(3) Undertow: shoots a large bubble that explodes on contact, creating a puddle at the impact location.

Spoiler

 

Reworked Undertow

- Shoots out a large cannonball that on contact deals Impact damage and knockdown enemies near the impact, then creates a puddle around the location.

- Cannonball is launched directly from Hydroid toward where he is aiming.

- The Cannonball explodes on contact with any surface, an enemy or reaching its maximum range.

- Cannonball flight speed is equivalent to Excalibur Exalted Blade's Energy waves.

- Creates a puddle at the explosion location.

- Enemies in the puddle are slowed by 20 / 30 / 40 / 50% and knockdowns are 40% more effective on them. Slow is affected by Mods while the knockdown debuff is not.

- With enough negative Power Strength puddles will increase Movement Speed Instead.

- Undertow Cannonballs will damage Nullifier Bubbles and Puddle will be created inside and around it but enemies inside the bubble will be unaffected by the ability.

- Hydroid can only have 3 puddles active at a time, summoning another one will destroy the older one.

- Undertow Puddles will not be cancelled if Hydroid is "Nullified" in any way, he won't be able to shoot another cannonball.

 

Ability Data:

Explosion Damage: 150 / 160 / 175 / 200 Impact Damage

Explosion radius: 4 / 6 / 8 / 10 m

Puddle Range: 8 / 12 / 15 / 18 m

Puddle Movement Speed Slow: 20 / 30 / 40 / 50%

Puddle Knockdown Debuff: 40% (Unaffected by mods)

 

Ability augments:

Deep Tendrils: Knocking down an enemy inside an Undertow Puddle has a chance to summon a Tentacle.

Replaces Curative Undertow.

- Every time an enemy is knocked down inside an Undertow Puddle there is a 40% change a Tendril will appear on the puddle and slam down enemies near it.

- Counts Knockdowns from any source so long as they come from Hydroid (Melee slams, Abilities, Pets).

- Tentacles spawned by the augment are significantly smaller than the Depths Assault tentacles.

- Tentacles will last as long as they have a puddle under them. Casing another puddle under the tentacles will keep them standing.

- Tentacles targeting AI and slams are unaffected by terrain, allowing them to see and attack enemies behind cover.

- Nullifier bubbles can't destroy the tentacles if they touch it but tentacles cant spawn inside the bubbles.

 

Augment Data:

Damage: 75 / 150 / 225 / 300

Tentacle Size: 8 m tall, 5 m wide.

 

MODS EFFECTS:

Duration Mods:

- Puddle Duration.

Strength Mods:

- Explosion damage.

- Tentacle Slam Damage.

Range Mods:

- Explosion and Puddle range.

Efficiency Mods:

- Energy Cost.

 

 

 

(4) Depths Assault: Creates a large Pool of water around Hydroid's location where tentacles sprout to harass enemies.

Spoiler

 

Reworked Tentacle Swarm

- Creates a puddle of water at Hydroid's current location where tentacles appear to attack enemies.

- The Puddle works the same way as the ones created by undertow, except larger.

- This puddle doesn't count toward Hydroid's puddle limit.

- Puddles created by Undertow will also spawn Tentacles while Depths Assault is active.

     - This also counts puddles created before Depths Assault.

- Spawns 7 / 8 / 9 / 12 Tentacles on the main Puddle, 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 on Undertow Puddles.

     - Adds/removes another tentacle for every 3 meters increased/reduced.

- Tentacles spawn about a meter near enemies.

- Tentacles will slam in an specific direction toward enemies, affecting a relatively large area around them.

     - Enemies take 75 / 150 / 225 / 300 Impact Damage and are knocked down.

     - Airborne enemies will be forced back down into the ground and become stunned for 2 seconds.

- Tentacles attack once every 1.5 seconds.

- Tentacles switch targets constantly, prioritizing standing enemies.

- Pressing 4 while the ability is active marks an area or enemy where all the tentacles attempt to slam on it once.

     - Giving orders does not cost energy and can be done repeatedly.

     - Targeted Airborne enemies may avoid the tentacles if they are moving too fast.

- Tentacles targeting AI and slams are unaffected by terrain, allowing them to see and attack enemies behind cover.

- Nullifier bubbles and the Nullifier drone will be targeted and damaged by the tentacles but enemies inside the bubble will be safe.

     - Tentacles created by Depths assault can't be destroyed by Nullifier Bubbles.

- Depths Assault will not be cancelled if Hydroid is "Nullified" in any way, he won't be able to cast another one or mark targets however.

 

Ability data:

Damage: 75 / 150 / 225 / 300 Impact Damage

Puddle Side: 10 / 12 / 20 / 30 m

Tentacle's Size: 20 Meters high, 5 Meters wide.

Tentacle Slam size: 5 Meters around the tentacle.

Cost: 100 Energy

 

Ability augments:

Pilfering Swarm: Enemies killed while assaulted by the Tentacles have a chance to yield extra loot.

Tweaked Pilfering Swarm.

- Enemies killed while affected by the puddles have a chance to drop extra loot.

- Enemies killed by the Tentacles has a much higher chance to drop extra loot.

- Synergizes well with Desecrate, as corpses still remain for it to take effect.

- Drop chances are unaffected by mods.

- Affects Tentacles created by Deep Tendrils Augment.

 

Augment Data:

Regular Kill Drop Chance: 5 / 15 / 20 / 30%

Tentacle Kill Drop Chance: 25 / 50 / 75 / 100%

 

MODS EFFECTS:

Duration Mods:

- Depths Assault duration.

Strength Mods:

- Tentacle Damage.

Range Mods:

- Puddle's size.

Efficiency Mods:

- Energy cost.

 

 

 

 

Ideas For Prime Hydroid effects:

Spoiler

Hey here is an idea for the Prime version, what if the tentacles he create have like golden "bones" inside them?

Of course i know some countries can be picky when it comes to bones but this is the warframe universe, we can get WEEEIRD with it. Instead of normal bones he could have Golden constructs inside of them, somethine that would make the Orokin jelly.

 

Edited August 11, 2017 by The_Sharp_Demonologist

[Prof_Blocks_007]

I've experimented with the changes and adjusted my builds. Now to dive into feedback!

Tempest Barrage

At base, Tempest Barrage is a useful CC skill for 25 energy, with the added function of armor reduction with the Corroding Barrage augment. The charge up function is useful for 'locking down' an area for longer, but the doubled damage is not of much use above level 30, and the charge time is really long (Natural Talent seems to reduce it somewhat, but it's still too long). The randomness of the barrage has been less problematic since the Ability Range scaling changes with Corroding Barrage's release:

Quote

Hydroid's Barrage: Power Range now increases the AoE of each projectile instead increasing their spread, making them easier to hit a target area.

It could still do with more consistent area coverage though, along with decreased cast delays. The increased brightness of the area indicator is nice, but there is no indication of how much it has been charged, or that it can be charged at all. Audio indicator added, but could still do with an indicator on the HUD.

Suggested changes:

• Reduce the charge time to 1 second
• Add a % charged indicator on the HUD (something like Harrow's Penance healing indicator)
• Increase the 'fire rate' of the projectiles by 50% at base, and then by another 50% for charged casts
• Reduce the delay between the end of the cast and the projectiles spawning/'firing'
• Have the projectiles target enemies (if possible) Now targets on ~1/3 to ~1/4 of 'shots'

Tidal Surge

The range and strength of the pull feels great (for reference, I'm running 145% range). It groups enemies up nicely, and entering Undertow during the cast can keep them grouped up, or you can complete the entire Surge and launch them away instead. The interactions with Undertow are fun to use. The 50 energy cast cost is quite high for what the ability does though. The Tidal Impunity augment is great for avoiding status effects and knockdowns, but the low duration holds it back.

Suggested changes:

• Reduce cast cost from 50 to 35
• Increase the duration of the Tidal Impunity augment from 6 to 12 seconds at base

Undertow

Being able to enter Undertow while in the air is freaking amazing! It will particularly help him escape hectic situations without needing to be on the ground. This gets even better when combined with in-Undertow casting of 1, 2 and 4. The scaling damage per second is something, but like with his 1, his kit has never really been about damage. Damage now scales with enemy health and numbers. The 5 energy per meter moved cost is quite high, and unnecessary, given how slowly Hydroid moves during undertow. The grabbing function is really fun to use, while also being useful for grabbing and disabling priority units from the safety of Undertow. Weapons can be reloaded in Undertow if the magazine is empty when entering Undertow - it'd be really neat if this became a feature.

Curative Undertow is a great augment, although it only heals Hydroid for 10% at base (instead of 30%) per tick. (I'm not sure if this is intended. Comments on the Wiki page speculate that the healing was reduced on Hydroid because it didn't drain extra energy when healing the user).

Suggested changes:

• Remove the energy drain on movement in Undertow - Tidal Surge already fills this role (energy for larger movement)
• Increase the healing of the Curative Undertow augment from 10% to 30% at base on self (allies are already healed for the 30% stated on the mod)
• Make Hydroid immune to heavy landings while in Undertow
• (Potentially) allow reloading and weapon swapping while in Undertow

Tentacle Swarm

The head that spawns is a cool addition, but it just leaves again a few moments later, which is kinda sad. It would be awesome if it had some kind of gameplay function. Maybe a roar that stuns enemies not caught by the tentacles? The charging mechanic works nicely, allowing for a small swarm at half cost, or a larger swarm at full cost. Particularly useful for builds that use Pilfering Swarm to recover energy, allowing for more efficient use against smaller groups of enemies. The 'directed slamming' seems to work well.

Unfortunately, when enemies are grabbed by the Tentacles, they become really, really awkward to hit with non-explosive weapons. Having the tentacles pin enemies down (holding attached enemies still) when weapons are fired would allow shooting of the captives, while keeping the amusement factor of watching enemies get tentacled around ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°). Tentacles now move slowly when enemies are stuck to them.

Suggested changes:

• Slightly reduce the charge time
• Have the Kraken (I think?) Roar, stunning enemies not yet caught by the tentacles
• Pin attached enemies down when weapons are fired, making them much easier to hit Tentacles now move slowly when enemies are stuck to them
• Have tentacles drop/discard killed enemies

Extra

The visual changes are really nice - much improved over the previous water effects. Would it be possible to have energy color change the color of the water? The increased armor has made Rage + Curative Undertow builds more viable and survivable, which is great! Increased base health from 100 to 125 (300 to 375 at max rank) would seal the deal, although I suspect this will come with the Prime (although no other Primes have increased health over the base variant). His energy pool could also do with an increase, but again, I suspect this will come with the Prime.

Thanks for reading!

Edited August 17, 2017 by Prof_Blocks_007
Updated for U21.5.0

[Urlan]

22 minutes ago, (PS4)Tomplexthis said:

oberon has no range nerf, that oberon rework was sick, its just insane

 

i dont know why you are so angry ?

You are incorrect, Renewal used to go an infinite distance towards allies but drained energy doing so. I would agree that Oberon's rework for the most part made him better, but its best not to be rude towards players that understand the warframe.

[Aristar]

He feels worse to play then he used to be. Tentacle Swarm is terrible now, no range, doesn't spread at all and still has no damage and makes it hard to use for the team. His other three skills are still not worth using, especially with the charge and hold mechanic. Tidal Surge is pointless, I can just bullet jump and kick someone to have more effect and range. 

I wish his 1 skill was a placed narrow aoe geyser that popped up enemies in the circle and knocked them down. It would get rid of the useless randomness it currently has. 

His 2 should be a knockdown surge with the wave moving away from Hydroid, not him becoming the wave.

His 3 should just be anything else. I don't play space ninjas to sit in a puddle. Maybe give him a Molt like ability to increase his survival and let the decoys become trapping puddles when slain.

His 4 should summon the fish and let it flail about for the duration of the skill. Give the Kracken a pierce attack with its beak to break armor. Have the tentacles either grab and hold enemies or at least just knock them down, not pick them up and wave them every where. 

[Tizodd]

Overall great rework.

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but [Undertow] should have an indicator as to how many enemies are currently submerged.  I try to keep track by watching damage numbers pop up, but a hud indicator would be much better.

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

Not bad.

Compared to the current revisit, this moveset really focuses on the deadly swashbuckler concept of Hydroid, while keeping in touch with this manipulation of water to assault enemies in deadly, stylish ways. I like it. Plus one.

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing69 said:

Not bad.

Compared to the current revisit, this moveset really focuses on the deadly swashbuckler concept of Hydroid, while keeping in touch with this manipulation of water to assault enemies in deadly, stylish ways. I like it. Plus one.

After a long while i decided Hydroid's kit should focus on the more deadly side of water, all about that hidden power that comes with deadly amounts of water. Then DE can make another Water frame more focused maybe on support and mobility. FLEXIBILITY IS KEY!

THanks for the support, glad you liked it!

 

Edited August 10, 2017 by The_Sharp_Demonologist

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

The only thing I would do is allow charge time for his 1 and 4 to be affected by Natural Talent or Power Duration. I only find use out of a fully charged Swarm, but charging it takes way too freaking long. 

[OvisCaedo]

Hm. So it sounds like they gave you the ability to dump more energy into 1, but didn't make it any more reliable (its biggest problem). Gave a bunch of synergy between 2 and 3 that sounds fun, but is another thing to dump a bunch of energy into. Let you pull things in and move with his 3, which is something to dump a bunch of energy into but also sounds self defeating since most of the feedback seems to suggest moving makes you leave enemies behind instead of going around gathering them up. And the ability to charge up his 4, dumping more energy into it, along with a reduction to its base range.

I'd have to play around a bit to see how the 2/3 interactions really work. 2 is supposed to pull things along with it, but moving in his 3 supposedly leaves behind everything you had in it. Is that just for regular movement, or does the 2 also just abandon everything you've gathered into the puddle? Does the distance moved by the 2 dash cause additional drain from 3's "energy cost on moving" trait? I'm also curious about the tentacles from 4 deploying from the puddle and whether or not those move with it.

It sounds close to working out well, but they still need to actually help fix the problem with his 1 being unreliable in so many ways, give him a better energy pool if they want so much charging up and multi-ability casting, and figure out what they really want from the puddle being able to move since leaving enemies behind on movement sounds like it really defeats the point to me.

[(PSN)Tomplexthis]

17 minutes ago, Urlan said:

You are incorrect, Renewal used to go an infinite distance towards allies but drained energy doing so. I would agree that Oberon's rework for the most part made him better, but its best not to be rude towards players that understand the warframe.

infinite range took to long, if thats the only minus, its not a big one

trinity used to have infinite range on her ult also

[(PSN)MJ-Cena7]

His 2 is soooo useless it should be his passive on dash like limbo or bullet jump while in undertow but not an ability  and he need a new better ultimate while hentai should be his 3rd also mods shoulds affect his 1 and 4 better strengh should increase both the damage and the numbers of barage and tentecles also range and duration 

[FOXMCLX]

I really liked hydroyd before updating for farming. But using it now became unfeasible, it was practically drowned out its tentacles making it even more fragile than it already was.

Skill 4 as it was before, would be great

Sorry for my bad english

Edited August 11, 2017 by FOXMCLX

[fatalphantom38]

Hydroid's 3rd ability is still too trolly for my liking. It prevents allies from damaging enemies and thus slows down the mission. Either buff the damage so it can actually kill things quickly or keep the enemies visible so allies can kill them.

His 1 is still too RNG. Make the projectiles lock on to enemies instead. Other than that, it's a pretty solid 1, with hard knockdowns and Corrosive procs with the augment.

I like the idea of grouping Hydroid's 2 and 3 together (press for puddle, hold for wave) and giving him another ability. Personally, i liked the idea of an anchor and chain (blade-and-whip style) Exalted weapon for him, and move Tentacle Swarm to his 3 and Undertow to his 2.

There's a few complaints I have for his "synergy" as well. If Hydroid has enemies pulled under his 3 and then casts his 2, he doesn't pull the enemies he already has- he just leaves them on the ground. Also, I'd like his tentacles to follow him while Hydroid is in Undertow instead of just placing all the tentacles around his current location. Lastly, Hydroid in his puddle form is way too slow for me. From some testing, it takes Hydroid in Undertow around 45 seconds to travel about 30 meters, which is unbearably sluggish for an otherwise fast-paced game like Warframe. (I was thinking you could give him about the same movement speed as Ivara and her 3, possibly a little slower).

I like Hydroid's concept, and the rework really helped him out. I just think that he could be even better than just "decent" or "useable".

Also worth mentioning, his passive is not worth using. Like, at all. Maybe something like "Pirate's Treasure" where all enemies that he kills drop extra credits (idk, but it's still better than his current passive).

Edited August 11, 2017 by fatalphantom38

[Einsig_SV]

How exactly is nerfing Hydroid by cutting his 3 and 4 ranges by 75% making him better?

[Xion]

If Hydroid has absorbed enemies into Undertow, casting Tidal Surge should not pull those enemies out of his puddle. Instead, they should be dragged along to wherever he's going in puddle form.

[Chipputer]

1 hour ago, Tesseract7777 said:

"It doesn't meet my personal expectations, so it clearly won't sell well". 

Warframe forums in a nutshell. Le sigh. 

The main problem is people looking at it as a rework and not a revisit. They are inherently different things.

The other problem is Oberon Syndrome. People who never play Hydroid complaining that they didn't get exactly what they wanted. Soon the group of actual Hydroid players who didn't get what they wanted will start circle jerking in every thread about Hydroid, as well. Talks will happen up until a month after the Prime's release and then everyone will move on except those who actually play and care about the frame.

I'm seeing feedback on aspects people clearly haven't used, such as one person saying that Curative Undertow should be built in to Undertow but not automatically pull players down. Hey! Good job outing yourself on not actually playing the frame and, therefore, having useless feedback. Woo hoo! It's the exact same as when Oberon got changed.

-----------------------------

My feedback:

Charging up moves is an interesting concept that I'm glad you guys have finally started to put to work. The effects might or might not need to be tweaked but it's a start and I'm enjoying it.

Barrage: Same as it always was except charging it makes it better. I suggest either increasing the size of the impacts or making it actively seek out targets within its range because, right now, it works ~fine~ but it's not entirely reliable. Augment still makes Hydroid an armor stripping monster, though.

Surge: Doesn't seem to have any new effects, as it was seemingly advertised. It's always knocked enemies along its travel path if you rammed into them, as far as I remember. Seems like it's not fully working as intended, yet, so I'll let that slide and see what happens as time moves on.

Tentacles: I feel like charging should only up the amount of tentacles and the range shouldn't have been reduced for the sake of making the charging a thing. It actually actively ruins using the frame, for me, because I used to use tentacles for my longer range CC and barrage for my closer range, spot CC. Now I have to spend time charging it up to achieve the same results and it costs me more energy to do so. Not good.

Undertow: My bulk of issues with the revisit lie here-- casting powers while using undertow is great, and all, and something that I really appreciate. When I was leveling Hydroid for the first time I remember sitting on a defense pod, using undertow, popping up and down and casting barrage and tentacles every time they were off cool down. Being able to do that without popping out of safety, as well as being able to propel forward with surge, is an incredibly neat idea. The damage scaling is also a nice idea but the ramp up is so painfully slow that it's not worth using unless you're willing to be a man down in your run for them to hold down a small group of priority targets.

Charging tentacles while in undertow forces their range to be only within undertow. I'm not too happy about this because I'm getting slightly more tentacles to CC a bunch of enemies on a spot where I'm... already CCing them.

Overall I'm worried that Hydroid AFK builds will now have more tools in their arsenal to cheese through missions that they were already basically sleeping through, anyway. If people want to play like that, that's on them, but I didn't expect DE to give them the tools to facilitate their inactive, and often obstructive, play style (as they often hold up waves if they forget to come back and are holding a ton of enemies under water). The scaling damage helps mitigate this, somewhat, but, again, the scaling is so slow that it's almost not even worth it.

Also, being able to use this to cancel surge and also from in the air presents a lot of mobility options as well as survivability options (dropping from above a group of enemies and puddling all of them immediately, etc).

 

All in all, I'd say it's a 6/10 revisit, for me. I'm not likely to use Hydroid more than I already did, but it definitely added a few QoL features to his move set and he's definitely a little bit more user friendly. Unfortunately it still doesn't make me look forward to his prime coming. I'm far more interested in the Ballistica Prime than Hydroid. This revisit didn't change that.

[j0rmundgandr]

I think you guys miss what hydroid lack of from the first place. hydroid is lack of consistency the 1 and 4 is a good CC ability but when where it land on is RNG based it still not improving his kit as a whole

My suggestion :

Instead of charging for more damage you charge it for bigger water drops 

Prehaps the  4th ability can be make it a toggleable ability  that makes tentacle follow you around just like the octopus style in watter bending on avatar

The rest of ability im fine with it, its hilarious to become a kappa monster with undertow

[Cyber_ninja_mib_X]

suggestion
Undertow should be able to launch, 2 puddles of water that come out small tentacles stopping enemies and damaging them, and that hydroid when crouching in these puddles can move between these 2 and keep the button pressed to keep you in the puddle and this will make it Bigger and do more damage but will disappear the second puddle.

Sorry for my English D:

What do you think ?

Edited August 11, 2017 by Cyber_ninja_mib_X

[WaterWarrior]

I feel encourage to share my ideas for Hydroid.I've got the concepts ready just to post them but how Can I paste pictures on my posts?

[Shadedraxe]

The rework doesn't mention the range nerf on Hydroid's 3 and 4. Undertow went from 18 meters to 4 meters. And Tentacle Swarm went from 20 meters to 5 meters. Yes, you can pull enemies into undertow, but you spend energy per each pull. and you can also charge his ult to get more tentacles and range, but you're pretty much just taking more time and spending more energy to get the same base range it used to have. There's nothing wrong with making Undertow more fun, with all of the synergy and mobility, but it costs too much energy and doesnt scale well in damage. And Tentacle swarm is too dissapointing. Barrage is still decent and the additional charge increases damage, so thats nice. Tidal surge isn't anything special, but at least it wasn't nerfed. his 3 could use a bit more range and cost less energy during use, pulling enemies, and moving. His ult could use more range. His 3 and 4 could also use some damage scaling. I'm aware that undertow deals more damage over time and it is finisher damage, but why not deal more damage per enemy engulfed in undertow (like maybe enemy health percentage along with the base damage?). Would create more of a reason to pull in and engulf as many enemies as possible. As of right now higher level enemies take waaaay too long to kill inside undertow. Not fun to make everyone else wait for Hydroid to either kill the enemies or run out of energy for the team to finish the job in defense missions. If Undertow can't deal more damage, at least let other team mates deal damage to enemies in undertow (i mean barrage does it now, why not teammate AOEs?)

[(PSN)Nujintuai]

MR 24 -- Hydroid Main (as in, legit Hydroid main.. as in my profile will prove I use him the most..).. and I am HAPPY with this rework. 

 

All I can say is: "DE, thank you for keeping the rework as a balance/synergy of his abilities and buffing his armor and shields. Thank you for not changing him from the warframe that some of us have main'ed since U13 into something unrecognizable."

  I am extremely happy that DE chose to make Hydroid BETTER, not DIFFERENT.  

For the players that are complaining that he isn't "different"-- honestly, they were not going to really play with him much anyway (similar to the Oberon Rework...similar to any rework. After a month, people go back to their preferred frames anyway). This rework actually is a gift to the Hydroid Mains who will actually continue to play as Hydroid as their main frame. 

So-- I know some of you are not happy-- but understand that those of us Hydroid Mains (those of use who will actually still be playing him in six months) are actually happy. 

 

 

 

 

[chofranc]

1 hour ago, thegreatersea said:

they added an indicator in the hotfix

There isn't a clear one, right now the charge mechanic is very inconsistent since it takes like 2 seconds to charge but you don't know if you are charging.

[DashingDevil303]

Alternative to making the raindrops track: Make them do an aoe explosion with a large range