[Update 21.4.0] Hydroid Revisited Feedback

[xS0nico]

So far i'm pretty positive about this "Quality of Life"changes. Yes, i call it this way because it's not really a rework. 
I don't have any problemi with the charge mechanic\range nerf, since i can move during casting, and my armor is increased, too. 

But there's 3 things i want to be chance, honestly...

1-I wish his 1° be not RNG Based anymore. I don't ask a new ability, but...atleast something that detach from RNG. 
2-I honestly wish the monster have some utility. Idk, like a little buff for his ability, or like a little vortex that takes the enemy..or, something. It's a little letdown that he doesn't do anything. 
3-While it's not terrible with Gunblades, i wish his passive could be a little be aqua-based. Like a nice reduction to fire\AoE Damage, or "if you take damage, % chance that Hydroid release some water that function similiar to his 3°". 
Extra - And honestly, i'm fine with his 2 and his 3, but some other things could help. 

But overall, he needs more changes, but...it's fun, i guess.
 

[(PSN)Evil_Reigns]

I propose 10 changes to make him better:
1) Increase the limit of enemies that can be submerged in his undertow.
2) The enemies are only submerged down to their heads and shoulders. Maybe make them flail around or something, but their heads would be visible. Then other players could get easy headshots.
3) With the previous change this should allow his 1st and now also 4th abilities to also hit enemies caught in his undertow. Then you can rain acid on enemies in the puddle and your kraken will be able to snag the enemies more easily. I'd suggest priority targeting to the enemies in the water so you can be further incentivised to use his tidal surge to go snag more.
4) I'd suggest lowering the base cost of his tidal surge by 20% while submerged in his undertow. This makes sense because you already made the water, so you're only spending the energy to move it around. You could also possibly reduce the cost of his tentacle swarm this way for the same reason, though that might be too much. I'd leave this one to your discretion.
5) Enemies grabbed by his tentacles should be able to be hit by multiple tentacles and the enemies could be smacked into each other for greater impact damage as well. This gives you another incentive to play with less range. You could widen the area and spread them out if you wanted being as you can charge up the swarm.
6) I also recommend the tentacles don't flail the enemies as much. They should grab them and simply slam them more intelligently vertically up and down rather than flailing them all over the place, unless of course they were grouped up closer, then they could be smashed into each other on the ground. This would be a massive quality of life change as other players could use their guns easier to shoot the enemies if they have a better idea of how the tentacles will behave.
7) Make his tempest barrage a toggle. A constant stream of falling acid in a set area is a pleasant thing and would be wholly welcomed. I promise you.
8) Incentivise using his second ability after his third by making his undertow become a whirlpool after the surge ends. The water was in motion so it should stay in motion for a short period till it settles. The motion of the whirlpool could shorten the intervals at which finisher damage is dealt effectively dealing faster damage. The duration of this whirlpool should be between 6 to 12 seconds based on duration, resets upon a fresh cast of his surge and slows down as the timer winds down. This wouldn't be overpowered because its heavily gated by energy consumption and would make you want to dash and collect enemies in your pool often like this. The damage would briefly spike but then simmer down as the water settles.
9) Further incentivise using his tidal surge in conjunction with his undertow by having his surge disarm enemies that are previously caught in his in undertow. Are you likely to maintain your grip on something in a raging current? Very unlikely. If this is OP you can simply have it be 30~60% chance or something based on power strength.
10) This one is fairly optional compared to the others and I wouldn't even mind a mod for this, but you could make his water be chromatic too. Think about it, electrified, poisoned, boiling, or freezing water would be substantially more painful than regular water and the damage could scale the longer they are inside the undertow. If most of these changes were made you'd see a huge surge of Hydroid players.

The second change and the eighth change are the ones I'd like to see most.

[chofranc]

Some little tweaks:

Tidal surge: 50 energy is too much for an ability move that doesn't do too much damage and that does a poor CC(you can only catch and push enemies that are on foot) and that you can't control its direction or stop it without spending extra energy(15 energy for Undertow)

Tweaks: It should cost at least 30 or 35 energy and you should be able to stop by holding the Tidal Surge key without extra energy cost, also, it should be able to catch and push enemies regardless if they are on foot or on the floor.

Tidal Impunity: Right now with max duration it gives you an status immunity of 16.9 sec which isn't to satisfying by the sacrifices that you must do and also you must spend 50 energy per cast and missed cast on your allies. 

Tweaks: It should last longer or scale better with duration mods, it should last at least 30-45 sec with max duration since you need to spend 50 energy for each cast or missed cast on your allies.

Edited August 16, 2017 by chofranc

[Roble_Viejo]

> Tentacles no longer ragdoll enemies all around, they catch them and start dragging them to the center (knock down effect while being dragged), where the KRAKEN (it's there damn it, let make it do something) chew them up. 

> If you use the pool in the center you can catch extra enemies and stack pool's dmg with the kraken's damage. 

> Pilfering Swarm can be refreshed. 

> Once it finishes the Kraken spits out a chest all players can open to get extra loot. 

> Prime Hydroid's Kraken has golden (^^*piratey*) teeth and spits out a golden glowing chest. 

For some weird reason the first text looks off.... 

Copy pasted from my post in reddit: 

 

 

 

 

[Archistopheles]

The fix can be much easier than that.

"Shooting the tentacles redirects that damage to the enemy the tentacle is holding."

Bam. Fixed. Fun to play.

[13QZXXTTX]

On 8/10/2017 at 11:26 AM, [DE]Megan said:

Feedback appreciated here: 

 

[Roble_Viejo]

>  Tentacles no longer ragdoll enemies all around, they catch them and start dragging them to the center (knock down effect while being dragged), where the KRAKEN (it's there damn it, let make it do something) chew them up. 

>  If you use the pool in the center you can catch extra enemies and stack pool's dmg with the kraken's damage. 

> Pilfering Swarm can be refreshed. 

> Once it finishes the Kraken spits out a chest all players can open to get extra loot. 

> Prime Hydroid's Kraken has golden (^^*piratey*) teeth and spits out a golden glowing chest. 

[Chimiasai]

Yay. We'll keep Tempest barrage + Tentacles swarm nerfed to the ground!

[Kevrex97]

What about focusing on more than just one ability.

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

seriously DE just erase that pile of S#&$ called hydroid from the game, refund formas and give nekros a desecrate augment that gives 100% extra loot, saves you time and efforts if this is what you call a rework and you're stubborn and narrow minded that you're only focusin on the most boring and lame of his abilities while the rest is pure trash.

I know you're capable of doing something majestic, mechanic & synergy wise ( NIDUS ) and when i see this trash revisits i can't believe they come from the same team

[SteelSoldier]

I seem to be taking damage in undertow if I pull an enemy in, as a matter of fact it only fixes itself after I die and the problem then occurs again if I repeat the procedure

[lucimaster100]

I hope from the bottom of my heart this is a bug. While in Undertow if you use your Tidal Surge to move because let's face it, it is painfully slow to use WASD, you lose the energy for both Tidal Surge and the distance travelled while in Undertow. And can you please make it possible to capture enemies and drag them along in Undertow?

[ForestGrant]

When Hydroid's in Undertow he should be able to charge his 2 to summon the kraken and launch into the air with it and create another puddle when he lands. This would give the kraken some more presence in his abilities instead of just Tentacle Swarm.

[[DE]Danielle]

12 minutes ago, SteelSoldier said:

I seem to be taking damage in undertow if I pull an enemy in, as a matter of fact it only fixes itself after I die and the problem then occurs again if I repeat the procedure

Hey! Could you give me more info so that we can successfully reproduce this? Any particular enemies causing this that were dragged in? Any other elements that occured as you were experiencing this issue? 

[[DE]Danielle]

18 minutes ago, lucimaster100 said:

I hope from the bottom of my heart this is a bug. While in Undertow if you use your Tidal Surge to move because let's face it, it is painfully slow to use WASD, you lose the energy for both Tidal Surge and the distance travelled while in Undertow. And can you please make it possible to capture enemies and drag them along in Undertow?

Not intended! 

4 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

We have a fix for Tidal Surge while in Undertow causing extra Energy to be consumed for the distance traveled that will be included in the next Hotfix.

 

[CiscoAtTheDisco]

Tempest Barrage: An idea I really like for his barrage ability is keeping the charge mechanic the same for a large aoe attack, but making it so the initial cast is a targetable aoe cannonball attack that procs blast in a small aoe of enemies.

As for tidal surge I think you could make it so the augment makes you send a wave to knockback enemies instead of riding it for mobility. This would allow people who want to utilize the wave for another form of cc instead of mobility to have that option. Also, could make it so allies hit by the wave are cured of status effects.

Puddle: Thank you for the changes so far, only thing I would suggest is possibly a larger range on the puddle. Also perhaps remove initial cast cost for puddle or lower cast cost.

Tentacles: Hopefully the slower tentacles will make it easier to shoot enemies caught in them. Maybe larger base range increase too?

 

Thank you for all the hard work!

 

 

Edited August 16, 2017 by CiscoAtTheDisco

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

49 minutes ago, arm4geddon-117 said:

seriously DE just erase that pile of S#&$ called hydroid from the game, refund formas and give nekros a desecrate augment that gives 100% extra loot, saves you time and efforts if this is what you call a rework and you're stubborn and narrow minded that you're only focusin on the most boring and lame of his abilities while the rest is pure trash.

I know you're capable of doing something majestic, mechanic & synergy wise ( NIDUS ) and when i see this trash revisits i can't believe they come from the same team

Hydroid Revisited. Lol

[(PSN)The_Verethragna]

On ‎8‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 5:28 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

HOT OFF THE PRESS (not literally we don't have a press):

 

Since it's Hydroid, would that make it a Steam Press?

[Chimiasai]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Shaun-T-Wilson said:

Hydroid Revisited. Lol

I'm now happy to say i deleted my Hydroid Loadout. No more interest to play him as a mobile armor scrapper. Now, he's just a kid's pool who move slowly until he burn his energy... Woah... It's not like a can decast undertow, bullet jump and then recast undertow, i'll save 35 energy with more accuracy! Yaaaaay!

[Chroia]

39 minutes ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Hey! Could you give me more info so that we can successfully reproduce this? Any particular enemies causing this that were dragged in? Any other elements that occured as you were experiencing this issue? 

 

[Levanthan]

Would be nice if the companion/sentinel get the Limbo rift treatment of becoming invuln with Hydroid in Undertow. Would be better for interactivity if the %health damage was on Tentacle Swarm instead of Undertow. Why is the focus to incentivise Hydroid players to play as a puddle more than as Hydroid? A more appropriate passive would also be nice. "Raging Waters: A percent of damage Hydroid takes in health turns into energy". Undertow can also get the health regen mechanic from the augment(with the associated energy cost) and have the augment work to also heal allies, that way the augment isn't replaced and Undertow becomes a proper defense mechanic.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Levanthan

[Narubion]

Ok, the new changes are a good point, to begin with. 
Undertow is doing damage. Pretty good damage at that. Against Grineer he relies on the Augment of his one because that's needed now if you want to kill anything in your puddle, but hey, that's ok. 

The problem is (still) with other points. 
While in his undertow (costing 1.1 energy per second with my loadout/ 0.3 energy per meter) and casting his 2 (35 energy) to move ~30 meters, I use up about 100 energy!
That's not even the cost of his 2 + the cost of moving the way in his 3, but about double that value! 

He still loses enemies if he moves his puddle, he still relies on a puddle as his main gameplay(?!) and two of his four abilities requires you to be used while in undertow because you will die while channeling.   

Also, the changes of his 4 are nice - if you use some sort of flamethrower or assault rifle. Trying to hit an (slowly) flailing enemy with a bow or sniper is still really, really hard. 

I really hope that this was not the last changes of his rework. There is still a lot of work until anyone can call him a good frame.

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

18 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Not quite true my fellow Tenno.  Sleep Arrow to Stealth melee finisher bypasses all shields and armor.   You may all carry on with your Hydroid discussion.  :D

My bad on that one, however within the context, I am still right. The player I was addressing is a press 4 to win player who doesnt want to move slower or act tactically.

 

12 hours ago, Mudfam said:

I didn't think my suggestion was taking anything away from people who like Hydroid as he is. I see it as a straight upgrade allowing for more playstyles. If Undertow was something that mixed well with the game's normal mobility then I can see myself having some fun with it. As it is Tidal Surge is the only ability you can sort of use while moving fast, but it's too circumstantial and you don't have any fine control over the movement. It's not enough to get me to play Hydroid.

I really don't like Nezha's passive, the fact that you keep sliding and sliding even after you let go of the slide key / button is really annoying to me. Besides that his aesthetic and his abilities don't really appeal to me. It surprises me how much looks can influence how much I play a frame. I don't like Hydroid either, but the prime looks kinda promising.

Of course you do.

Meanwhile, Hydroid just got the damage you wanted...but you have to sit still

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

Keep the tweeks going, hydroid is becoming a good ambush frame, been doing lots of def and survivals and been getting over 50% of overall damage and kills.

[Mudfam]

30 minutes ago, (PS4)Fenrushak said:

Meanwhile, Hydroid just got the damage you wanted...but you have to sit still

Meh, I never wanted damage at all. I prefer utility from abilities, damage from weapons.

Dunno, I really thought the water theme could fit well with fast and fuild gameplay, guess not many people agree :/