Please buff very old weapon(s) and series

[Teshin_Dax]

To clarify what i mean...: The whole lato series and (many) other sidearms received nice buffs, while other weapons still lack in performance.

I think these weapons need a closer look:

I ONLY FOCUS ON OLD WEAPONS - and i just ask for tweaks.. not for insane buffs.. they should perform good again if you use a perfect riven..
I think thats the point of rivens.. that you can make a good use out of bad but beloved weapons again.

Primary

-Braton (every version) - maybe even the riven disposition (i know..many people still use braton, but i expect a max disposition on this one)
-Boltor (every version) - it doesn't perform very good in endgame content.. (The riven disposition can't help there - it's low and the base stats aren't great)
-Burston (every version) - it even received a better visual appereance.. 
-Dera (every version)
-Flux Rifle
-Gorgon (every version)
-Ogris
-Tetra

Secondary 

-Acrid (once was one of the best weapons ingame)
-Afuris + Furis (every version) - just a bit please (nice augment)
-Vasto + Akvasto (every version)
-Bolto + Akbolto
-Despair (one of the weakest weapons currently - however.. back then it was one of the best) - just look at the ingame description
-Hikou (every version) - even the best riven roll cant help there
-Kunai
-Seer - Yes it is one of the 1st weapons a player can obtain, but even the nice riven disposition with a perfect roll cant help this weapon (for example: 400%dmg 200% multishot)
-Spectra
-Viper (every version)
-Kraken

Melee

-Amphis
-Ceramic Dagger + Sword
-Cronus (maybe also a redesign to match it with Vor's and Seer's appereance - also grants new players a special feeling when they optain this BP)
-Dual Heat Swords + Heat Sword + Heat Dagger
-Dual Ether + Ether Sword
-Ether Daggers 
-Dual Skana + Skana (every version) - And a max riven disposition would fit there too
-Fang (every verison)
-Jaw Sword
-Machete
-Mire
-Pangolin Sword
 

Edited September 7, 2017 by Teshin_Dax

[Nyrakav]

I've been asking for a Burston Prime buff for a year now. definitely one of my favorite weapons.

[Teshin_Dax]

Just now, Nyrakav said:

I've been asking for a Burston Prime buff for a year now. definitely one of my favorite weapons.

It's highly needed - yes

[Kalvorax]

9 minutes ago, Teshin_Dax said:

-Ceramic Dagger

would be great to buff this a bit more...Its the fastest single dagger tied with the Rakta Dark Dagger. Thus its good for CL and Ash with FT or BS...but apart from that its quite weak...i wish it was a drop from Vor instead of an alert weapon....cant remember the last tiem i ever saw an alert for it lol.

[[DE]Grzegorz]

I do not think every weapon should be viable for "endgame" content, not in this game with all the emphasis on player progression. I'm not against the balance but all weapons should have their place on the power curve in both PvE and PvP.

Mastery Rank could be used as the indicator of performance in both, however the performance difference between MR1 and MR30 weapon in PvP should be far smaller (mostly niche advantages at the cost of higher skill requirements). In PvE however, a "bad gun" should be both available early as well as be really cheap to acquire (as far as fully built weapon that costs next to nothing). The problem Warframe has currently is that the weapon and player "progression" is a complete mess and the rework is long overdue.

Ideally players should get familiar with common weapon archetypes early on, and as they progress through the game, more nuanced and powerful equivalents of these weapons should become available, this however makes earlier weapons completely obsolete (whether that's good or bad is up to discussion)

Edited September 6, 2017 by Mofixil

[Teshin_Dax]

1 minute ago, Kalvorax said:

would be great to buff this a bit more...Its the fastest single dagger tied with the Rakta Dark Dagger. Thus its good for CL and Ash with FT or BS...but apart from that its quite weak...i wish it was a drop from Vor instead of an alert weapon....cant remember the last tiem i ever saw an alert for it lol.

That's also a general issue with daggers.. the whole class is quite weak (without finisher attacks) - thanks for your support

[Teshin_Dax]

1 minute ago, Mofixil said:

I do not think every weapon should be viable, not in this game with all the emphasis on player progression. I'm not against the balance but all weapons should have their place on the power curve in both PvE and PvP.

Mastery Rank could be used as the indicator of performance in both, however the performance difference between MR1 and MR30 weapon in PvP should be far smaller (mostly niche advantages at the cost of higher skill requirements). In PvE however, a "bad gun" should be both available early as well as be really cheap to acquire. The problem Warframe has currently is that the weapon and player "progression" is a complete mess and the rework is long overdue.

Ideally players should get familiar with common weapon archetypes early on, and as they progress through the game, more nuanced and powerful equivalents of these weapons should become available, this however makes earlier weapons completely obsolete (whether that's good or bad is up to discussion)

Welll i understand your point.. 

But in PVE.. we can use Riven Mods.. and even if you use a MR1 weapon... as long as you use a Riven Mod which pushes the requirement to MR11 ..it should be viable again (Sortie wise atleast.. because MR goes higher and rng pain is also there)

[[DE]Grzegorz]

2 minutes ago, Teshin_Dax said:

But in PVE.. we can use Riven Mods.. and even if you use a MR1 weapon... as long as you use a Riven Mod which pushes the requirement to MR11 ..it should be viable again (Sortie wise atleast.. because MR goes higher and rng pain is also there)

Mods in their current state increase weapon power by an order of magnitude but do we really expect and want people to stick to their MK1 all the way up to Sortie levels? Surely, top-tier weapons currently are ridiculously overpowered even in such scenarios and there still would be an incentive to progress but ultimately, level scaling, weapon balance and modding would all need to be adjusted - read: reworked from scratch - to make sense, I don't really see a reason for a starter weapon to be competitive in high-end content even with maxed and perfectly rolled mods.

Another solution to the issue of higher-tier weapons completely outclassing their predecessors would be implementation of, let's call it Hardlight Simulacra, which essentially means turning an already owned and maxed weapon into a skin that can be used on a higher-tier equivalent, this gives us the best of both worlds as I don't really see a reason to use bad weapons other than cosmetic appeal.

[Teshin_Dax]

10 minutes ago, Mofixil said:

Mods in their current state increase weapon power by an order of magnitude but do we really expect and want people to stick to their MK1 all the way up to Sortie levels? Surely, top-tier weapons currently are ridiculously overpowered even in such scenarios and there still would be an incentive to progress but ultimately, level scaling, weapon balance and modding would all need to be adjusted - read: reworked from scratch - to make sense, I don't really see a reason for a starter weapon to be competitive in high-end content even with maxed and perfectly rolled mods.

Another solution to the issue of higher-tier weapons completely outclassing their predecessors would be implementation of, let's call it Hardlight Simulacra, which essentially means turning an already owned and maxed weapon into a skin that can be used on a higher-tier equivalent, this gives us the best of both worlds as I don't really see a reason to use bad weapons other than cosmetic appeal.

Thats actually a pretty good idea. Swapping the appereance and maybe the name too.. with another weapons (somehow a sacrifice on the other side ^^)

I guess there can be many ways to solve this issue. Who knows.. maybe DE releases someday an upgrade-tree for special weapons like the prime-family.
(Because i guess that noone would turn event weapons, primes or other exclusive stuff into skins)

Edited September 6, 2017 by Teshin_Dax

[MirageKnight]

1 hour ago, Teshin_Dax said:

-snip-
 

Completely agreed on this. However, as long as Rivens remain a thing with players, DE will more than likely never make this happen.

That being said, back in the day all these weapons were actually pretty good. For example Gorgon was considered to be a beast when it came out. The problem is that enemy scaling and the gradual introduction of shinier and more powerful weapons makes older weapons look lackluster in comparison.

But hey - we have Rivens that can fix that, right...?

 

 

Actually, not really. Rivens only given the illusion of improving older weapons.

Edited September 6, 2017 by MirageKnight

[Teshin_Dax]

3 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

Completely agreed on this. However, as long as Rivens remain a thing with players, DE will more than likely never make this happen.

That being said, back in the day all these weapons were actually pretty good. For example Gorgon was considered to be a beast when it came out. The problem is that enemy scaling and the gradual introduction of shinier and more powerful weapons makes older weapons look lackluster in comparison.

But hey - we have Rivens that can fix that, right...?

 

 

Actually, not really. Rivens only given the illusion of improving older weapons.

right .. Riven mods on its own could only change that if they would add base stats and not multiply

[Darkvramp]

The problem with weapons in this game is the scale of damage  and effect between each weapon is imbalanced. There should be a natural progression that weapons can take between each weapon group or tier. The other problem is there is no mod support for pure damage weapons, crit and status is so much more powerful than not having either becasue there is mods to support both. How can pure damage weapons without any mods compete?

[Koldraxon-732]

50 minutes ago, Mofixil said:

Mods in their current state increase weapon power by an order of magnitude but do we really expect and want people to stick to their [cutoff]

Kohm.

Then again, Weapons need a Mastery Requirement rebalance (i.e: Galatine, in comparison to Dark Split Sword, is superior and their MRs should be swapped because of it, in theory) so people don't immediately have access to every OP weapon by MR2 (Atterax + Kohm). 

[Transformau5]

1 hour ago, Mofixil said:

Hardlight Simulacra, which essentially means turning an already owned and maxed weapon into a skin that can be used on a higher-tier equivalent, this gives us the best of both worlds as I don't really see a reason to use bad weapons other than cosmetic appeal.

So more or less the functionality of using transmog on armors in MMORPGs?

[Doomsknightmare]

I agree that weapons mentioned by OP indeed need some love. Let me add a few more.

 

Primary:

Tetra

Tiberon

Mutalist Quanta
 

Secdondary : 

Kraken

Tysis

Stug

 

Melee :

Mire

Pangolin Sword

War

 

 

Edited September 8, 2017 by Doomsknight

[helghastgunner]

Could we throw snipers into this list as well? Do they count as old(the most recent one being nearly 2 years old)

[RobWasHere]

27 minutes ago, helghastgunner said:

Could we throw snipers into this list as well? Do they count as old(the most recent one being nearly 2 years old)

They 1-2 shoots any sortie 3 enemy, beside punch-through they dont really need any buffs (maybe regular snipetron, but its like Mk1-braton level of snipers). And combo counter reset on timer when not hit any enemy instead of miss.

[Fallen_Echo]

9 hours ago, Teshin_Dax said:

Dual Ether + Ether Sword
-Ether Daggers

I remember when these guys had that innate armor ignore bonus and i found them an acceptable weapon choice.

If that could been reverted im sure with a good riven these could be useful weapons once again.

7 hours ago, Darkvramp said:

The problem with weapons in this game is the scale of damage  and effect between each weapon is imbalanced. There should be a natural progression that weapons can take between each weapon group or tier. The other problem is there is no mod support for pure damage weapons, crit and status is so much more powerful than not having either becasue there is mods to support both. How can pure damage weapons without any mods compete?

Poor tiberon and its friends. I agree with this there should be mods that go for pure power like:

1) +5% scaling hp damage, +100% multishot removes crit chance entirely

2) innate armor ignore, removes status chance

3) Gunzerker: For time the player pulls the trigger his attacks deal +5% damage. Stacks 60 times amd resets when the player crits or procs status

[TrickshotMcGee]

9 hours ago, Teshin_Dax said:

-Ogris

I actually disagree with this one. Ogris has 35% status chance, which is utterly insane. Especially for something with the splash damage Ogris has. It's rather good. Only change it needs is a slightly faster charge speed. 

Everything else could use changes, though. Don't agree with all of your suggested changes, but it's certainly a good list of the things that could use attention. 

 

3 hours ago, Doomsknight said:

Primary:

Tetra

Tiberon

Mutalist Quanta
 

Secdondary : 

Kraken

Tysis

Stug

 

Melee :

Hate

Mire

Pangolin Sword

Yup. Only one that doesn't is Hate, because it's already got 20% crit chance and not exactly a small amount of damage. It's actually a solid weapon, garbage stances notwithstanding. I think Tysis also has like 50% status chance and base corrosive. That's rather powerful. I dunno if that needs a buff, being that it's an effective armor stripper. Perhaps an increased fire rate to help it strip armor better? 

[TrickshotMcGee]

 

Double post Dx

Edited September 7, 2017 by TrickshotMcGee

[helghastgunner]

3 hours ago, RobWasHere said:

They 1-2 shoots any sortie 3 enemy, beside punch-through they dont really need any buffs (maybe regular snipetron, but its like Mk1-braton level of snipers). And combo counter reset on timer when not hit any enemy instead of miss.

With or without riven?

Also crit chance buff as well as removing hip-fire penalty

[KnightCole]

Gorgon buffs:

Gorgon: 120/900, 12 accuracy, lower recoil, faster wind up speed, +5% Crit/status

Gorgon Wraith: 150/900, 15 accuracy, lower recoil, faster wind up speed,  +7.5% crit/status

Gorgon Prisma: 150/1050, 18 accuracy, lower recoil, faster wind up speed. +7.5% crit/status

Supra(cuz yes it needs more): 500ms instead of 80ms lol....ALOT less recoil and heaps faster wind up speed...

Braton Prime: 75/750, seriously, give the damn thing more ammo.....like good god....

Aksomati: 100/400, the thing needs more ammo, also, 12 accuracy, cuz 8 is lulzy bad. 

Akzani: +2 dmg to each damage stat, 10 accuracy up from 8. 

Edited September 7, 2017 by KnightCole

[affafu]

akvasto/Vasto/vasto prime please for the love of god DE.

Though I remember them not wanting to revisit old weps on a devstream, didn't even said the reason why it was just a question and they said they don't want to/have no plan to do so.

Edited September 7, 2017 by pundithepanda
forgot akvasto exist

[(PSN)lhbuch]

Please include continuous fire weapons to the list. Status/dmg per second is terrible.

[Doomsknightmare]

5 hours ago, (PS4)lhbuch said:

Please include continuous fire weapons to the list. Status/dmg per second is terrible.

+1