Antimatter Drop is unwieldy (and here's how we can fix that)

[continue]

consider making antimatter drop quickly travel to the targeted location on second cast for the following reasons:

• "why" you give the player the option to fire and forget AMD so they don't have to spend as much time controlling it for faster paced gameplay
• "why change what isn't broken" it would behave identically to how it does currently if you don't cast it again, preserving finer control for people who think it handles fine currently
• "but what about casting multiple AMDs?" nobody can reasonably control multiple AMDs anyways, and you would still be able to cast multiple AMDs, just not control them

Edited September 24, 2017 by continue
for clarity

[peterc3]

Isn't the entire point to be able to control it, dump in a ton of damage then send it into the enemies? How would having less time make this better or, why would DE want you to throw out AMDs faster?

[Jiminez_Burial]

If you want to carpet bomb with multiple AMD orbs, the price you pay is less control and less focused damage.  The main point of AMD is to max out it's absorbed damage and dump a single instance of WMD style damage.  What you want sounds more like an augment idea rather than a change that fits with it's intended design.

[QueenKharn]

Just making it Fire-and-Forget would make it far more usable. Especially with the Augment. Launch it at a troublesome group to absorb their fire and do damage while you can turn to engage other targets.

Edited September 23, 2017 by KokoroWish

[(PSN)Elvenbane]

The only fixes I'd like see for AMD are ones to stop it sticking to Nova and occasionally inflicting radiation on her.

[DarkRuler2500]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Elvenbane said:

The only fixes I'd like see for AMD are ones to stop it sticking to Nova and occasionally inflicting radiation on her.

OH, so it was me who recently failed that mobile defense sortie. *whistle*
Good2know. :D

[Fallen_Echo]

2 hours ago, continue said:

consider making antimatter drop quickly travel to the targeted location on second cast for the following reasons:

• you give the player the option to spend less time controlling AMD for faster paced gameplay while still having the option for finer control
• nobody can reasonably control multiple AMDs anyways, and you would still be able to cast multiple AMDs, just not control them

How about an amd augment instead of changing whats working fine?

Carpet bombing: Nova launches 10 small amd orbs. The orbs deal +100% damage absorb 90% less damage, their status chance is increased to 80% and they move 100% faster.

[continue]

On 9/22/2017 at 11:17 PM, peterc3 said:

Isn't the entire point to be able to control it, dump in a ton of damage then send it into the enemies? How would having less time make this better or, why would DE want you to throw out AMDs faster?

• doesn't having the option to send it directly where you want to after you dump in a ton of damage accomplish exactly that?
• that's based on DE's claims to want fast-paced gameplay, but they don't have to change anything if they're satisfied with it obviously

On 9/22/2017 at 11:56 PM, KokoroWish said:

Just making it Fire-and-Forget would make it far more usable. Especially with the Augment. Launch it at a troublesome group to absorb their fire and do damage while you can turn to engage other targets.

• true, but I imagine that some people would like to preserve the fine control aspect of the ability

On 9/22/2017 at 11:39 PM, Starfreak911 said:

If you want to carpet bomb with multiple AMD orbs, the price you pay is less control and less focused damage.  The main point of AMD is to max out it's absorbed damage and dump a single instance of WMD style damage.  What you want sounds more like an augment idea rather than a change that fits with it's intended design.

• the suggestion was actually to grant more control over a single orb, which is perfectly in line with "the main point" and "it's [sic] intended design"

On 9/23/2017 at 1:40 AM, Fallen_Echo said:

How about an amd augment instead of changing whats working fine?

• is it working fine?
• i believe my suggestion changes as little as possible while still improving its ease of use 

Edited September 24, 2017 by continue
please forgive my pettiness

[kgabor]

The only problem with Antimatter Drop is that Molecular P outclasses it both in utility, range and sometimes in its use too, it's more useful to cast MP and affect a massive amount of enemies slowing them down and applying a damage multiplier if you have good weapons than to cast Antimatter and wait a half minute doing nothing but pointing at a smaller group until it reaches its target and nuke it with high direct damage.

It needs a small QoL change like hold 2 to charge-release to launch faster or something to make it useful, something like a Half Life gravity gun but with AMD-s current charge mechanic, with its current range it's just not worth the energy-time most of the time unless you use it Tonkor style just quickcharging it with a shotgun pointing at your feet.

[TaylorsContraction]

I think amd is fine the way it is, but the augment anti matter absorb should remove the fine control feature and just travel in the direction you cast it.

This ability acts as a frontal shield but the only way to use it effectively is while pinned against a corner because you have to stare at it the whole time. God forbid you turn around to deal with enemies behind you, suddenly your defense isn't where you placed it.

[TKDancer]

3 hours ago, kgabor said:

The only problem with Antimatter Drop is that Molecular P outclasses it both in utility, range and sometimes in its use too

what

 

one is a debuff, the other is a bomb, they literally complement each other

 

debuff the whole area, use a bomb that deals double dmg

[continue]

3 hours ago, kgabor said:

The only problem with Antimatter Drop is that Molecular P outclasses it both in utility, range and sometimes in its use too, it's more useful to cast MP and affect a massive amount of enemies slowing them down and applying a damage multiplier if you have good weapons than to cast Antimatter and wait a half minute doing nothing but pointing at a smaller group until it reaches its target and nuke it with high direct damage.

It needs a small QoL change like hold 2 to charge-release to launch faster or something to make it useful, something like a Half Life gravity gun but with AMD-s current charge mechanic, with its current range it's just not worth the energy-time most of the time unless you use it Tonkor style just quickcharging it with a shotgun pointing at your feet.

• this is quite literally exactly what the suggestion addresses

1 hour ago, TaylorsContraction said:

I think amd is fine the way it is, but the augment anti matter absorb should remove the fine control feature and just travel in the direction you cast it.

This ability acts as a frontal shield but the only way to use it effectively is while pinned against a corner because you have to stare at it the whole time. God forbid you turn around to deal with enemies behind you, suddenly your defense isn't where you placed it.

• you'd be able to do that just by double-tapping 2

[Birdframe_Prime]

6 hours ago, continue said:

• is it working fine?

Actually, yes, apart from some bugs when you launch the orb, it's working exactly as intended. An orb of damage that does traditionally low damage, unless you charge it up. If you charge it to max, it travels much faster and can deal a radial explosion of 400,000 Radiation damage every time (mitigated/multiplied by other forces, like Molecular Prime, Rhino Roar, basic enemy resistances/weaknesses and so on).

The reason it travels slow and is cursor controlled is a limiting factor on an ability that can deal, under ideal conditions, over 1.6 million damage in around 30 seconds or less. For reference, without armour stripping abilities/procs or Finisher damage (slash procs included) on enemies, that's the highest base damage per second ability this game has. Considering a well modded shotgun can fill it to max in about two clicks (one if you use the Sancti/Prime Tigris, thanks to duplex auto), this is a necessary limit on an incredibly potent cast.

[continue]

1 hour ago, Thaylien said:

Actually, yes, apart from some bugs when you launch the orb, it's working exactly as intended. An orb of damage that does traditionally low damage, unless you charge it up. If you charge it to max, it travels much faster and can deal a radial explosion of 400,000 Radiation damage every time (mitigated/multiplied by other forces, like Molecular Prime, Rhino Roar, basic enemy resistances/weaknesses and so on).

The reason it travels slow and is cursor controlled is a limiting factor on an ability that can deal, under ideal conditions, over 1.6 million damage in around 30 seconds or less. For reference, without armour stripping abilities/procs or Finisher damage (slash procs included) on enemies, that's the highest base damage per second ability this game has. Considering a well modded shotgun can fill it to max in about two clicks (one if you use the Sancti/Prime Tigris, thanks to duplex auto), this is a necessary limit on an incredibly potent cast.

can i just thank you for being the only well-reasoned response this thread has had so far

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

Yeah, Antimatter drop is fine. You can use it as an AOE nuke by casting it and immediately dropping it to the floor, detonating primed enemies all around enemies, or you can move out  of the way (ideally using nova's warp), take you time and aim/charge it to max potential for a huge AOE explosion dealing alot of damage... Both uses are really great.

[Birdframe_Prime]

15 hours ago, continue said:

can i just thank you for being the only well-reasoned response this thread has had so far

As opposed to my real life, where I'm nothing but non-sensical and crackpot theories with little to no reasoning behind them ^^

[Mousarchy]

can we add in some synergy too? make AMD able to go through wormhole. for instant teleportation.
but i like your idea. you are keeping AMD basically untouched. while giving it a QOL. as it is now you are FORCED to stare were you want it to go. and if you are forced to change your focuse (say enemies spawn behind you) you risk the chance of your amd harmlessly exploding on a wall or pillar because you had to change its direction pre-maturaly to not die.
 with your idea I can charge it,aim it,and then let it lose while killing the new enemies that spawned behind me as my AMD ambles over to tenderize a large foregroup
(or at least make me an augment that lets AMD travel through wormhole.)

 

[Andaius]

On 9/23/2017 at 12:12 AM, continue said:

consider making antimatter drop quickly travel to the targeted location on second cast for the following reasons:

• "why" you give the player the option to fire and forget AMD so they don't have to spend as much time controlling it for faster paced gameplay
• "why change what isn't broken" it would behave identically to how it does currently if you don't cast it again, preserving finer control for people who think it handles fine currently
• "but what about casting multiple AMDs?" nobody can reasonably control multiple AMDs anyways, and you would still be able to cast multiple AMDs, just not control them

IIRC if your aiming, the globe doesn't track. It goes slow so it can absorb damage!

Edited September 26, 2017 by Andaius

[Paradoxbomb]

• Tap 2 to spawn AM spheres.
• Hold 2 to release all existing AM spheres and send them in a straight line relative to their current trajectory.

An easy tweak to let players continue using multiple AM drops (not something I do personally but it can have it's merits) while still allowing us to release the sphere and not put up with their super finicky nonsense whenever they come within an inch of whatever surface you want them to detonate against but refuses to actually touch it. 

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, Paradoxbomb said:

their super finicky nonsense whenever they come within an inch of whatever surface you want them to detonate against but refuses to actually touch it

You know that's because when you drag your mouse down to the ground to try and bomb it, you're actually then dragging the orb along the surface to the new spot you aimed at instead? To you it's only a few pixels down, but depending on your angle it can be anywhere from a meter closer to you to five meters. That's why it feels like it doesn't actually touch, because it's actually moving back towards you to the new landing zone.

It's why I always crash into pillars, boxes, enemies, even ceilings instead of the floor nowadays.

[Paradoxbomb]

4 hours ago, Thaylien said:

You know that's because when you drag your mouse down to the ground to try and bomb it, you're actually then dragging the orb along the surface to the new spot you aimed at instead? To you it's only a few pixels down, but depending on your angle it can be anywhere from a meter closer to you to five meters. That's why it feels like it doesn't actually touch, because it's actually moving back towards you to the new landing zone.

It's why I always crash into pillars, boxes, enemies, even ceilings instead of the floor nowadays.

Yeah, I get why it happens, it doesn't make it any less annoying though. >_>

[Birdframe_Prime]

10 hours ago, Paradoxbomb said:

Yeah, I get why it happens, it doesn't make it any less annoying though. >_>

True, but you could have it the other way, where instead of it bursting when the centre point of the orb connects, it detonates the moment it clips anything whatsoever, and therefore constantly explodes before you wanted it to...

[continue]

22 hours ago, Paradoxbomb said:

• Tap 2 to spawn AM spheres.
• Hold 2 to release all existing AM spheres and send them in a straight line relative to their current trajectory.

An easy tweak to let players continue using multiple AM drops (not something I do personally but it can have it's merits) while still allowing us to release the sphere and not put up with their super finicky nonsense whenever they come within an inch of whatever surface you want them to detonate against but refuses to actually touch it. 

I assume this is like a brief hold like when casting ivara's quiver and vauban's grenades (as opposed to holding down the button to guide it, which would be functionally identical to how it is currently). Do the spheres just stay in place before holding 2 though or do they still exhibit their current behavior?

(This also still has to grapple with the point that Thaylien brought up, which is this that AMD's unwieldiness is currently necessary to counterbalance its power. Whether or not it's intended to be unwieldy I'm not about to debate since that would be trying to read the minds of the devs. I'm not opposed to having a quirky ability here or there, though.)

Edited September 27, 2017 by continue

[Paradoxbomb]

2 hours ago, continue said:

I assume this is like a brief hold like when casting ivara's quiver and vauban's grenades (as opposed to holding down the button to guide it, which would be functionally identical to how it is currently). Do the spheres just stay in place before holding 2 though or do they still exhibit their current behavior?

(This also still has to grapple with the point that Thaylien brought up, which is this that AMD's unwieldiness is currently necessary to counterbalance its power. Whether or not it's intended to be unwieldy I'm not about to debate since that would be trying to read the minds of the devs. I'm not opposed to having a quirky ability here or there, though.)

Yeah, the hold-to-release would function just like Ivara's arrows or Vauban's grenades. Controlling the orbs would be functionally identical to how it is now (tap to spawn and they'll follow your crosshair up until they hit something or you purposely release them).

As for balancing, I think the fact that they move slow and Nova has to leave herself somewhat vulnerable to use them is balance enough. Even with the option to release them, you'd still have to be pretty close to the fire-fight in order to guarantee that your enemies won't just outrun the orb's AoE since you can no longer course-correct it once released.

[Birdframe_Prime]

21 minutes ago, Paradoxbomb said:

Yeah, the hold-to-release would function just like Ivara's arrows or Vauban's grenades.

I would like to ask anyone that likes the hold/tap abilities to try it on a PS4, where their abilities are swipes on the touch-pad. It's not fun to do hold abilities in that method, and it's almost as bad for Xbox controllers who... I'm not sure (from the button layout) actually have a dedicated button for casting abilities, just one for selecting the ability wheel.

Food for thought.