Make Stalker dangerous again

[Velveteen]

Hello fellow Tenno. I'll try to keep it short and simple. I feel like the current Stalker is weak and has lost it's meaning, I feel like nowadays he's just another Eximus unit. So here are some of my ideas to make him "scary" and dangerous again:

1)when he spawns, ALL lights go out except if the tileset is earth or something out in the open.

2)the stalked person, gets intermittent static so not only it's already pitch black but you also can't see really well, or even better, on top of the static, make the player hallucinate for 1 second or so during which one of the teammates looks like the stalker, so while you need to stick together, you get that extra sense of paranoia when running back to your teammates. 

3)probably 1 or 2 abilities, one with which he snares one of the players(not the hunted one), for 1 second or so, just so they can't move to help the stalked player, and the second one with which he teleports one of the player in the closest room near the stalker so the stalked player has only 1 teammate left that can fight alongside him. 

4)don't make him face tank everyone anymore, like running towards the stalked player from the get go, he's the Stalker not the Juggernaut, so make him lurk in the dark and hunt it's target, using all of the above and only get in melee range if the players go for him or the stalked target accidentally gets to close since you can't see. 

This is pretty much it, I know DE is busy with POE and that there are other issues that need fixing, but I wanted to put this out here, maybe discuss or share ideas. And at some point in the future he'll get a rework and be a worthy foe like he used to be. 
 

[(PSN)s3d_sas]

Idk I feel that's kinda op for new players all what I can say is that I'm facing a boss that can spawn and F*** me up when I'm leveling my stuff and leave I think the stalker we have is kinda gud but if your idea was submitted he should not drop anymore dread bp or increase the chance of suff to drop ik a mr23 player that he still missing despair or make the loot more valuable for old players soo they can accept the challenge but even tho that's alot of work for DE to do 

[Raskol]

You know that DE's working on some "stalker mode" where u can join random match as stalker and try to kill other players?

Guess real (thinking) person would be more dangerous than AI

Edited September 25, 2017 by Raskolnikow

[peterc3]

3 minutes ago, Raskolnikow said:

You know that DE's working on some "stalker mode" where u can join random match as stalker and try to kill other players?

That was a one-off for the convention, there's no real plan to introduce it outside that.

As for the OP, why not just have Stalker spawn in and one shot you, that's dangerous, right? Either he's so OP that everyone gets destroyed or he's not OP and everyone steamrolls him. Given I've seen people complaining Shadow Stalker is too hard, I'd say he is near perfect now.

[Retchid]

I was trolling players using ASH and War - not sure they noticed really (yes stalker did appear when I was doing this) but it would be a great idea to make it dark or make everyone have an enemy marker just to add to the confusion and a real penalty for not killing him (rather than just respawn - maybe loss of weapons for rest of match or boot).

I got killed by Valkyr and Clem (spectres) on a Hardmode game - that confused the hell out of me and guilty feeling for shooting them for it (but I thought it was great).

 

 

 

 

[(PSN)s3d_sas]

3 minutes ago, Retchid said:

I got killed by Clem on a Hardmode game - guilty feeling for shooting them for it (but I thought it was great)

 

 

 

 

Clem shot u because he wasn't wrong he was shoting on the enemy you should accept it and die don't shot at Clem >:{

[o0Despair0o]

Again? Stalker was never dangerous in the first place, at least in the 2-3 years that I played. The only time he becomes even somehwat close to being dangerous is when you stand still and are using unleveled weapons.

 

In fact, it seems he only spawns when I'm using weapons that do low damage. What a coward.

[KentuckyKid_69]

That is actually a valid point since Stalker even when you level up something is weak af, you only need one good weapon and it should be no problem at all. I can't even remember the last time he dropped me or any player in my squad. Very weak for Excal's counterpart and yes he only appears when you are leveling stuff or your Warframe is brand new.

Edited September 25, 2017 by KentuckyKid_69

[xXDeadsinxX]

I still remember when U18 came out and Shadow Stalker was so beefy and the community didn't like that at all so then they complained that he was too tough and op, so they nerfed him, fun times. But yeah, he definitely needs to be stronger like what he used to be, maybe even stronger since "Your actions have consequences." Not really when I can easily 1 shot him which most players aren't afraid of him at all and DE should change how stalker works to make him more beefy and make him more terrified towards players, a man can only dream.

Edited September 25, 2017 by xXDeadsinxX

[phoenix1992]

*hits Stalker with 50-250k crit*

Oh yeah man, Stalker is such a weakling. Imagine if he scaled with....
"Stalker has a base spawn level of 30. While partially influenced by the level of enemies in the mission, his level upon next spawn for the targeted player increases every time the player or their squad succeeds in defeating him, as with all assassins. If the player dies to him, said factor will reset."

Oh yeah about that. Have you met Stalker in Kuva 80-100?

Stalker as of right now is glorified Loot pinata due to our damage capabilities and changing his AI or praying tactic won't do much in order to combat "High damage AoE/ST spam madness" that Warframe is found off due to being horde shooter.

PS: Removing the immunity gating from him was cheap.

Edited September 25, 2017 by phoenix1992

[Kinetos]

He appears randomly. The low level gear myth is confirmation bias. 

[xXDeadsinxX]

8 minutes ago, Kinetos said:

He appears randomly. The low level gear myth is confirmation bias. 

What? He does appear randomly, yes that part is true, but he only appears most of the time which is 95% of time when you have low level gear equipped on, not all has to be low level though. 

[MystMan]

Stalker / Shadow Stalker is fine how he is now.

Remember when we all started with nothing?  Regular Stalker is OP for new players, 1-shotting them with Dread or his Absorb. He sure killed me a lot on my long road to ranking up my shield/armor/health/serration/etc mods, something new players will take quite some time to achieve. During that time, players are squishy and deal mediocre damage with low tier weapons. Solo players are obviously disadvantaged.

And you can't say he's easy if he consecutively keeps showing up when you're packing powerful gear, have teammates ready to help you and not distracted by the mission objectives. That's just luck.
Like already mentioned, he can show up when you're leveling weapons or using a squishy frame who depend on their (Stalker-dispellable) abilities to survive.   Or when you're doing Kuva siphon, excavation, anything that keeps you distracted and overwhelmed by other enemies. Ever had a Stalker when you're in the middle of a Spy room? Those places don't exactly offer you a lot of room to maneuver in and you will be preoccupied not trying to trip the alarm. Fighting him in those claustrophobic reddish Eris tile sets is quite hard as well, it is difficult enough to navigate and see in that dark tile set, having black & red assassin show up in there, good luck trying to see him.

His AI behaviour is not always the same. Sometimes he runs around taking damage until defeated like a bullet sponge or he goes after the first hit right into his invulnerable phase to charge his 1-shot grenade or his disco laser attack. (or Absorb as Regular Stalker). It's unpredictable.
 

So all in all, Stalker's difficulty is RNG by itself.  The when/where/how/why is so random we all get different results of varying difficulty.

 

Edited September 25, 2017 by MystMan

[Lokidus_Prime]

At the VERY least they could make it how it used to be that if he kills you, you were just straight up dead and would be forced to burn a revive (which back when you had to play plat to revive, very well could mean you might end up aborting to just conserve them). However, things tend to go something like this if you get killed by the stalker : he kills you ded, he goes "It is Done. You are No morreee" and leaves in a puff of smoke, meanwhile yer just all "Kay..." revive, and continues to slaughter things as if nothing ever happened.  The penalty of one revive is a shallow one at best, even less so if yer with a squad that bothers to revive you, because then it really IS just like nothing ever happened.   I feel like to give a greater sense of penalty for him killing you would be to make it so that if he kills you, you straight up fail the mission (if in a squad, you get pulled from it kinda like if you happen to be captured by Zanuka Hunter).

 

[AuroraSonicBoom]

2 hours ago, Raskolnikow said:

You know that DE's working on some "stalker mode" where u can join random match as stalker and try to kill other players?

If such a mode would be introduced it'd be entirely optional.

 

No, I think there needs to be a bigger consequence to dying to him. Something like random Focus perks temporarily being disabled as a result of our Operator getting beaten up in their frame by Mr. Edge.

[BrazilianJoe]

Stalker should shut down normal mods while active, and conclave mods take over until he dies. For starters.

If the player wins, normal mods are reinstated.

If the player dies, He will remain on conclave mods and gradually re-power on the mods by killing enemies/gaining xp, one mod at a time. how much XP is worth a mod restore would depend on mission being played. 

Do a anothre stalker pass after that. 

[Chitanda.Eru]

Give him a similar AI, movement speed, and everything else as this guy. if anyone here knows this guy you know whats up.

 

P.S. yeah he's just a smokey edgy joke now. an assassin type boss that gets assassinated 24/7

P.P.S. he killed me recently and he pretty much cheated. he spawned somewhere very far from me, the mobs stopped coming at me, he then forced teleported me in a literal corner where the mobs are surrounding him as if he dropped his latest mix tape and killed me there.

 

He who gets cheesed learned how to cheese it seems.

 

Edited September 25, 2017 by Chitanda.Eru

[ShadowFel]

Yeah, he doesn't feel threatening.  Really, when he spawns, my biggest concern is if I'm in a Corpus level, since the Bursas that will spawn because of the lockdown are more threatening than Shadow Stalker.  I feel like both Stalker's and Shadow Stalker's durability could use a tiny buff, since, as a high level player, he can be vaporized in a few seconds if I have any of my maxed gear.  However, I understand that both are a legitimate challenge as a newer player (I still remember my first Stalker kill involving about 500 shots from a Boltor), so I feel like he should be more...adaptive to the strength of the enemy player.  

The Binding of Isaac actually has an idea that might work here: adaptive DR.  Essentially, the game examines the DPS that you're putting out, and gives the enemy DR based on that DPS.  I mean, on the rare occasion that Stalker gets corrupted by a fissure, that bonus DR does wonders for how intimidating he is.  I'd suggest having him START with very high DR, then as you attack him, the game calculates your output and lowers his DR accordingly, in order to prevent him from being 1-shot.  If done right, early players will have the DR lowered to what we have now, or even less, resulting in an intense fight, while more...destructive players will actually get a challenge out of him.

Also, of the 3 non-syndicate assassins, dying to him has the fewest penalties.  Die to G3?  Mission fails, and you're stuck with the Grustrag Bolt.  Die to Zanuka?  Mission fails, and you have to do the recovery mission.  Die to Stalker?  Get back up and keep moving.  Honestly, I don't think it would be that significant if he just failed the mission if he kills you.  No additional penalty, but just the idea that the mission is riding on this fight would make him more threatening.

[UltraLYT]

It is good to make Stalker dangerous, he seems weak because he is spawned in low to mid level missions and can be easily defeated with a team of good players.  Stalker does not seem weak otherwise.

Edited September 25, 2017 by modalmojo

[o.0-]

A floating scaling system could be a way to make Stalker visits more consistent.

What I mean is that changing how we relate to content could allow highly optimized builds to feel a challenge without adversely impact players that may lack mods, such as new players. So that the four players in a cell/squad are able to be closer in relative power while also allowing enemies to scale as well.

Stalker doesn't appear after 5 min or 5 waves, so this can be the intended experience for endless and non-endless mission experience and so Stalker can be scaled against this type of structure as a mini-boss he's intended to be.

[el_chanis]

the problem isn't the stalker, the problem are the players. We are obnoxiusly powerfull. I blame multi shot and base damage mods, stupidly long hard CC, and trinity's 2 and 4. If we nerf those things to the ground, the entire game will become a MUCH MORE challenging expirence. The fact that a vauban can shut down an entire room for minutes long should ring a bell in this issue.

[BrazilianJoe]

29 minutes ago, el_chanis said:

the problem isn't the stalker, the problem are the players. We are obnoxiusly powerfull. I blame multi shot and base damage mods, stupidly long hard CC, and trinity's 2 and 4. If we nerf those things to the ground, the entire game will become a MUCH MORE challenging expirence. The fact that a vauban can shut down an entire room for minutes long should ring a bell in this issue.

That's why my idea is to have Stalker's lockdown also lock plain mods, and replace their effect with the PvP mods while Stalker is bobbing around. PvP is a completely different power envelope. 

[el_chanis]

9 minutes ago, BrazilianJoe said:

That's why my idea is to have Stalker's lockdown also lock plain mods, and replace their effect with the PvP mods while Stalker is bobbing around. PvP is a completely different power envelope. 

And thats why i replied what i replied. We don't need an unreliable nerf against him only. We need a huge nerf all across the board. With this changes alone, the stalker will threatning again. 

BTW, your option is extremely punishing. It would be imposible to kill/survive him in a moderate level mission (40-50). Let alone something like 80. So no, bad suggestion.

[BrazilianJoe]

17 minutes ago, el_chanis said:

And thats why i replied what i replied. We don't need an unreliable nerf against him only. We need a huge nerf all across the board. With this changes alone, the stalker will threatning again. 

BTW, your option is extremely punishing. It would be imposible to kill/survive him in a moderate level mission (40-50). Let alone something like 80. So no, bad suggestion.

One player's punishment is another player's challenge, it all hinges on how much is too much. My proposal would not go without rebalancing how Stalker scales, of course. It would still scale, but for a PvP power envelope. A harder call wold be to redo the whole system. PvP already has its own balance and power envelope, and it would be interesting and efficient development-wise to take advantage of it in other game areas. I still stand by my idea, but of course Stalker scaling should follow a different step.

[el_chanis]

1 hour ago, BrazilianJoe said:

One player's punishment is another player's challenge, it all hinges on how much is too much. My proposal would not go without rebalancing how Stalker scales, of course. It would still scale, but for a PvP power envelope. A harder call wold be to redo the whole system. PvP already has its own balance and power envelope, and it would be interesting and efficient development-wise to take advantage of it in other game areas. I still stand by my idea, but of course Stalker scaling should follow a different step.

Doesn,t matter how "harder" it is if it is necesary. You are purposing a band-aid. We need a system overhaul, and we needed it for a very long time. Damage scaling and armor are broken.