Reminder - Shields: Still Useless

[BlackCoMerc]

Ran a Survival earlier. Half my health gone. Bleeding. Proc'd with Puncture, too. So I look up...

575 Shields remaining.

Why do we even HAVE shields? They're useless. Utterly, completely useless. A Warframe can lose most of its HEALTH...without ever having Shields go down. In ANY OTHER GAME, this would be a bug. A game breaking, player experiencing warping, urgent bug. 

In Warframe, its business as usual. 

Why dont we just remove Shields, up Armor for every frame and balance around that? Or stop scaling enemy accuracy with damage proc hitscan weapons. OR make it so enemies ont even HAVE hitscan weapons and our agility actually MEANS something.

Whatever you choose...if you are going to insist on Shields, at least make them WORK. Because the ones we have now are just really poor game design.

[-Rekken-]

Shields are sometimes very useful. But its obivious you wont lose shield if you are bleeding and shields are regenerating not like health (on most frames)

Edited December 15, 2017 by _Rekken

[-QUILL_PETER-]

Agreed. Ofc, any changes they made would also affect us against our enemies' shields. I've been thinking about overshields too. Just as useless with absolutely no reason to exist. What's the point of having a bonus surplus of shield if they're still completely useless. Perhaps overshields could actually make you status proof until they first get chewed through. Then they'd actually be meaningful and we'd have an incentive to use magnetic damage for once.

[Acersecomic]

The way you word your rant makes me think "how are you a gold eagle?".

Sadly shields are near useless, but go and do a No Shield nightmare mission, look at how different it is. You'll suddenly feel Shields are valuable.

[BiancaRoughfin]

@BlackCoMerc Just curious, what Warframe did you use for said Survival mission?

I main Zephyr, i have 1440 Health and 1440 Shield. Shield is what keeps me alive most of the time, prevents me from being hit killed by Melee enemies when im using Turbulence and when its not active often absorbs bullets long enough for me to take cover. The map is full of places and objects for you to take cover.

[BiancaRoughfin]

@BlackCoMerc Just curious, what Warframe did you use for said Survival mission?

I main Zephyr, i have 1440 Health and 1440 Shield. Shield is what keeps me alive most of the time, prevents me from being hit killed by Melee enemies when im using Turbulence and when its not active often absorbs bullets long enough for me to take cover. The map is full of places and objects for you to take cover.

[Trichouette]

il y a 31 minutes, BlackCoMerc a dit :

A Warframe can lose most of its HEALTH...without ever having Shields go down.

Whether or not you get damaged through shield, the issues are rather

• Shield is removed in an instant because it's just health with 0 armor
• Bleed proc are way too strong and health doesn't regenerate (unless you're playing nidus...)

[DiosGX]

The other 11 damage types that DO hit shields on the other hand don't get mentioned at all. It's almost like it would invalidate your claim or something!

 

Shields are indeed very useless vs. the two damage types that don't attack shields.

You know what else is useless? Duct tape for fixing my steamliner ocean freighter. I mean wow duct tape is just so stupid and useless you guys. It  can't even do the thing it's not designed or intended to do! Wow! So useless you are, duct tape! Can't even repair a damaged ocean titan. 

 

o3o

[tarfeef101]

While a lot of the counter-arguments here are actually valid to at least some degree, there is something that makes almost any non-vitality build almost pointless for late-game:
slash procs. I can get hit by 1 slash proc from a lvl 200 enemy, and without vitality i'm dead. even with, i'm possibly dead, and may need health pads without healing mechanics baked into my setup. The fact that 1 tick of toxin or bleed can bypass shields and wreck you does make it very hard to justify modding for shields over health. having health at least gives you time to drop a pad in those kind of situations.

[(PSN)KingGuy420]

Another "Warframe does something unique and I want generic" thread. Is it just me or do these threads pop up way more than they should?

[trunks013]

Not useless but not the best.

...

...

Wait say that out loud its sound super good ^.^ 

Edited December 15, 2017 by trunks013

[Marine027]

YOu can actually avoid bleed and toxic procs guys, just roll, when it ticcks it not affects that way actually, avoiding damge if oyu keep rolling till its gone, roll behind a cover or wall, simply, also, health paltes still exist, jsut palce a few you know, if you fight levle 200 enemys you sure have resources for those by now. Would people stop ignorign the things the game actually gives you instead of complaining that it maybe is not intented to be perfect? You want status immunity or resistance? Trinity, Titania, Obeorn, etc.

[(XBOX)BigLithuanian]

1 hour ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Ran a Survival earlier. Half my health gone. Bleeding. Proc'd with Puncture, too. So I look up...

575 Shields remaining.

Why do we even HAVE shields? They're useless. Utterly, completely useless. A Warframe can lose most of its HEALTH...without ever having Shields go down. In ANY OTHER GAME, this would be a bug. A game breaking, player experiencing warping, urgent bug. 

In Warframe, its business as usual. 

Why dont we just remove Shields, up Armor for every frame and balance around that? Or stop scaling enemy accuracy with damage proc hitscan weapons. OR make it so enemies ont even HAVE hitscan weapons and our agility actually MEANS something.

Whatever you choose...if you are going to insist on Shields, at least make them WORK. Because the ones we have now are just really poor game design.

They would have to rework certain Warfame abilities to do that

[(XBOX)dude1286]

Going into Operator mode makes the ticks from Slash and Toxin not harm the Warframe. Saved myself a few times this way, and now the Operator can defend themselves a little.

[Fallen_Echo]

55 minutes ago, DiosGX said:

The other 11 damage types that DO hit shields on the other hand don't get mentioned at all. It's almost like it would invalidate your claim or something!

 

Shields are indeed very useless vs. the two damage types that don't attack shields.

You know what else is useless? Duct tape for fixing my steamliner ocean freighter. I mean wow duct tape is just so stupid and useless you guys. It  can't even do the thing it's not designed or intended to do! Wow! So useless you are, duct tape! Can't even repair a damaged ocean titan. 

 

o3o

And how much of them is actually used by enemies?

Im sure i have only seen enemies using: toxin, electric, heat, magnetic, blast and the IPS damage types.

From this we have 2 damage types what bypass shields and one what removes it. Sadly these elements are used by fodder and heavy units mostly so they will be the main reason to die.

[Katinka]

1 hour ago, Acersecomic said:

The way you word your rant makes me think "how are you a gold eagle?".

Because forum rank is based solely on post count and not on in-game rank or on post quality.

[Airwolfen]

High shield low armor warframes still have a good use of them. Their health is pretty much just as effective in damage absorption and it regens. so health regen stuff is only needed when you get procced.

1 hour ago, Acersecomic said:

The way you word your rant makes me think "how are you a gold eagle?".

Forum rank is purely based on post count sooooo...

[BlackCoMerc]

23 hours ago, DiosGX said:

The other 11 damage types that DO hit shields on the other hand don't get mentioned at all. It's almost like it would invalidate your claim or something!

 

Shields are indeed very useless vs. the two damage types that don't attack shields.

You know what else is useless? Duct tape for fixing my steamliner ocean freighter. I mean wow duct tape is just so stupid and useless you guys. It  can't even do the thing it's not designed or intended to do! Wow! So useless you are, duct tape! Can't even repair a damaged ocean titan. 

 

o3o

Nice try.

Nearly every enemy in the game uses weapons capable of ignoring shields. The ENTIRE Grineer army can make Shields irrelevant. Near perfect accuracy, hitscan weapons and Slash procs are enough to render Redirection pointless.

Procs ignoring shields are yet another bandaid to grossly OP players. Just like Nullifier. And aimbot, terrain clipping, zero reaction time grappling hooks fired by a game script instead of actors (that the actors are both moving and looking away from you, gives it away). 

But DE seems to think each bandaid they slap on exists in a vacuum. But they don't. And the player gimping Band-Aids keep piling on, slowly making Warframes the weakest unit on any given battlefield. Between procs, drain auras, grappling hooks, Nullifier bubbles and fields and armor Scaling, it's a wonder that the Corpus and Grineer haven't smacked the Tenno back to the stone age.

Edited December 16, 2017 by BlackCoMerc

[TioMegaManX]

On 12/15/2017 at 11:38 AM, (PS4)KingGuy420 said:

Another "Warframe does something unique and I want generic" thread. Is it just me or do these threads pop up way more than they should?

Shields+Health is not unique actually, I am pretty sure not even Halo 1 was the first but is the one that could ring a bell for a lot of people, and even then I don't recall something bypassing shields in that specific game.

[Twistedsparkle]

I agree shields are bad because they are fixed hitpoints with no real mitigation unlike armor
thats why people wanted shield gating but DE has been conflicted how to implement it into the game

I think by simply giving some sort of mitigation for the shields those hitpoints would actually be worth something
also recharge delays and recharge rates are pretty bad considering how many hitscan and aoe enemies are in the game
you dont even get a good chance to recharge shields because constant dmg sustain

so yeah shields need an update
the sooner the better but who knows when that is S:

[Mofodo]

Shields have no armor like our health does. But shields are effected by flat damage reduction. There few frames that have ways to apply damage reduction to themselves (or allies) can make use of shields, but there are not many of them right now. Namely Trinity, Mesa and now Gara.

I think the issue is being falsely identified here, though. I don't think the problem with shields is that slash and toxin bypass them, because while they might feel common, they aren't that common. And in the case of toxin, bypassing shields is all it has going for it. Shields have no armor, which I think was designed as a way to balance shields versus health, and this works well in lower levels. Health has armor but can't regenerate normally and shields have no armor but regenerate over time. Maybe shields either need a portion of your armor or a different type of armor altogether. If shields were as tanky as health, I don't see people building for health just to stop toxin and bleed - so I don't think that's the solution.

On a side note, there's many ways to regenerate health in game now, and they help combat the dot effects of toxin and bleed. Life Strike and arcanes are two popular methods that work on any frame.

[DiabolusUrsus]

You guys are missing the forest for the trees...

Is "useless" an exaggeration? Yes.

But that's not the point. Pick between building for shields and building for health/armor, and I guarantee you the health/armor will serve you better every time.

Sure, health recovery is a thing but it's not like every Warframe has healing powers.. at which point you're down to pace-breaking consumables or late-game rare mods.

To me, that's a problem.

[Eienlanzer]

On 12/15/2017 at 12:06 PM, (Xbox One)dude1286 said:

Going into Operator mode makes the ticks from Slash and Toxin not harm the Warframe. Saved myself a few times this way, and now the Operator can defend themselves a little.

Sure, I like this too. Entering Void mode is useful for avoiding fatal proc damage. I don't see this as over powered because eventually your energy will run out. It's a good strategy. 

[DroopingPuppy]

No shield penalty on the mission is actually very dangerous in the game, and despite shields got no defense bonus it soaks most of damage we would take in the game.

 

And, think about how we bend the shields by slash and toxic procs. They do, but we do as well.

[(PSN)AtomicEyekon]

Shields are useless they buffed mirages Prime Shields and Harrows best survivability is over Shields this sounds like a fantastic idea