No seriously. This is a must for Mirage.

[Trickst3rGawd]

Seriously. Mirage needs to be able to cycle through her light and dark phases in eclipse so that they can both be better utilized.

Sometimes we don't need that 400% or 600% dmg. We need that 95% reduction.

There has been the occasional player asking vice versa as well.

He wanted the damage buff to kill a teraIyst but they only come out in the night..we need more control over our buffs in eclipse.  There are even players wanting to really test Mirage's 95% dmg reduc in simulacrum but, they can't due to how Simulacrum is so brightly lit.

No I'm (we) are not asking for lower light levels in simalcrum.

Please make this change to Mirage because it will really be an amazing addition to her kit. Many players have suggested this change many times. They have all proceeded to say.

ECLIPSE BEING LIGHT DEPENDENT IS WONKY!!!

It needs to change..

and for some reason it seems to fly by DE.

Look if you guys really want to see this change happening..please tweet this link to DE. We can't just say hey! We want this change made to this frame. We need to really get it to their eyes.

Edit: went about this a wrong way. Like one of the replyers commented:  "There were suggestions like using her 2 as a source of light/darkness, then you have to stay near the gem to get the right buff."

For everyone screaming OP!!!

 

Another Idea : 

  12 minutes ago, MuscleBeach said:

What do you guys think about her always being in Darkness mode and while you channel your 4 or when the 2 pops, you're in light mode for its duration? This way you are in control and use her 2 and 4 more often. Maybe add a few seconds after 4 pops for light mode to linger. Or it fades away over a few seconds. 

You can even keep the ambient light as an effect, though I don't personally think it's necessary. When you're not standing in the proper lighting, buffs only work at 90% effectiveness instead of their normal 100%. This way the spirit of the frame is still there but you also have control of your lighting, at the cost of spending energy on abilities you normally wouldn't take the time to cast in most situations. 

To see some other good Quality of life changes for Mirage check out this : 

 

[GinKenshin]

so you want a frame that can CC like crazy, either via blinding or using CC/AoE weapons to clear entire rooms to be able to choose whether it can deal more dmg or take less dmg 


so.....what will stop mirage from being unbalanced and OP if your idea does go through? what? low survivability stats? dmg reduction, remember? hard to get? it's a free frame from an easy quest, plus you can buy and farm the prime still

tell me a downside to mirage if your idea goes through. because now, her only balancing downside is that you cannot choose between these buffs 


EDIT: and bruh, just stop.......this is not how you get ideas to DE, this is embarrassing tbh 

Edited January 3, 2018 by GinKenshin

[Trickst3rGawd]

2 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

so you want a frame that can CC like crazy, either via blinding or using CC/AoE weapons to clear entire rooms to be able to choose whether it can deal more dmg or take less dmg 


so.....what will stop mirage from being unbalanced and OP if your idea does go through? what? low survivability stats? dmg reduction, remember? hard to get? it's a free frame from an easy quest, plus you can buy and farm the prime still

tell me a downside to mirage if your idea goes through. because now, her only balancing downside is that you cannot choose between these buffs 

Dude but Chroma can fricken get huge amounts of damage buffs as well as soak up damage and hit harder. What are his downsides? Come on man we need a bit more flexibility.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Trickst3rGawd

[-NTB-Cris0407]

No...

Deal with it :->

[Trickst3rGawd]

Just now, Cris0407 said:

No...

Deal with it :->

You see you add nothing to the topic. Why not? What is your argument?

[GinKenshin]

Just now, Trickst3rGawd said:

Dude but Chroma can fricken get huge amounts of damage buffs as well as soak up damage and hit harder. What are his downsides? Come on man we need a bit more flexibility.

that's not flexibility, that's being OP. chroma has his problems as well 

prob with chroma is that he lacks CC and deals dmg to a single/handful of targets, mirage can do that, CC clear larger mobs 


just because other frame are broken doesn't mean it should be that way. mirage is perfectly balanced, you're just salty here


again, tell me, and don't compare this to another outdated frame....what's her downsides with that change? 

[Trickst3rGawd]

8 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

that's not flexibility, that's being OP. chroma has his problems as well 

prob with chroma is that he lacks CC and deals dmg to a single/handful of targets, mirage can do that, CC clear larger mobs 


just because other frame are broken doesn't mean it should be that way. mirage is perfectly balanced, you're just salty here


again, tell me, and don't compare this to another outdated frame....what's her downsides with that change? 

How am I salty? Why are the people on here so quick to just call each other names and shoot each other down? It's like what the hell? One drawback would be uhhh I dunno. I guess it is balanced but players want what they want. It isn't like I've been the only one suggesting the change. I just want to make her a bit better because sometimes people just want to switch it up.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Trickst3rGawd

[Trichouette]

il y a 5 minutes, Trickst3rGawd a dit :

Dude but Chroma can fricken get huge amounts of damage buffs as well as soak up damage and hit harder. What are his downsides? Come on man we need a bit more flexibility.

Chroma is very unbalanced be he's meant to be tanky, mirage isn't meant to be tanky AND deal damage at the same time.

Wanna know chroma's downside ? He doesn't have an ability that murder everything on the map, unlike mirage's prism. (and he has 1 and a half useless ability)

It's already surprising that she has such a tanking ability in my opinion...

[Ragingwasabi]

i dont see how its op if she can only cycle through them tbh. she not using them both at a time. situational stuff kinda suck especially when its hard to tell what defines as light or dark in warframe.

[Trickst3rGawd]

Just now, Ragingwasabi said:

i dont see how its op if she can only cycle through them tbh. she not using them both at a time. situational stuff kinda suck especially when its hard to tell what defines as light or dark in warframe.

Thank you.

[-VS-Airikr]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Ragingwasabi:

i dont see how its op

so the choice of either getting 400% - 600% dmg or 95% reduction for pressing one button is not op. Aha.

you know why that would be op? because it goes into the same niche as Chroma. As much as i love him, the buff is too high (not to mention of Chroma's other problems and that Chroma has gotten literally just one tiny job with that after times of everyone not giving a damn about him)  and now you want to give that same stuff to a frame that is (and would be even more) objectively better than him, hm?

What OP suggests is simply broken and hurts the already fragile balance of the game. This reminds me of the dude who thinks that Rhino needs to get the same slf dmg buff Chroma can get "just because chroma has it xdddd".

a frame that has insane damage AND insane dmg reduction AND crowd control? no thanks. Chroma has at least some downsides although they dont make up for the dmg buff admittedly. but he is on the rework list anyways so that will likely change.

[Dreddeth]

To be frank, even with the very vocal bellyaching from you and nobody else worth addressing, I don't see the point. Mirage is in a pretty good spot now that her Sleight of Hand actually does something, and I say this as someone who plays her regularly.

Edit: And where the hell are all these other players who have no idea how to design an ability and the shameless stupidity to broadcast such?

Edited January 3, 2018 by Dreddeth
Addendum

[Soldier1312]

Instead of cycling I've lately thought about little bit of synergy between her abilities. I thought about her 4th ability being considered as a source of light that could change Eclipse's mode to damage one, but I have no sensible idea how one could use damage reduction mode in light.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Soldier1312

[Trickst3rGawd]

1 minute ago, Soldier1312 said:

Instead of cycling I lately thought about little bit of synergy between her abilities. I thought about her 4th ability being considered as a source of light that could change Eclipse's mode to +dmg one, but I have no sensible idea how one could use +dmg reduction mode in light.

That would be super sick!

[Arkandae]

il y a 45 minutes, Calumniis a dit :

insane damage OR insane dmg reduction

FTFY

il y a 46 minutes, Calumniis a dit :

AND crowd control

It's faster to kill everyone than cast the prism.

il y a une heure, GinKenshin a dit :

what's her downsides with that change? 

I'm not sure about what OP means when he says "needs to be able to cycle through her light and dark phases".
There were suggestions like using her 2 as a source of light/darkness, then you have to stay near the gem to get the right buff. There are other issues with eclipse, like for example having a 95% damage reduction buff while being under a bright light. 

To be fair, even if it would help, I dont often need one buff or the other even in sorties so it would feel like a QoL fix, I can live without it. I don't think it would be OP though.

 

il y a une heure, GinKenshin a dit :

Dude but Chroma can fricken get huge amounts of damage buffs as well as soak up damage and hit harder. What are his downsides?

"Buffing" yourself with hikou/glaive/whatever (taking one of your weapon slot) because you don't often have the full damage buff when ennemies shoot at you. And Chroma is bugged af, 192000 damage on the eidolon with opticor, ~7500 without buff, how is that a 500% damage multiplier ? If they fix him one day, eidolon group will be more diverse (rhino, octavia, mirage,...).

Mirage is bugged too, but in the wrong way : 

 

 

 

[TKDancer]

1 hour ago, Calumniis said:

so the choice of either getting 400% - 600% dmg or 95% reduction for pressing one button is not op. Aha.

you know why that would be op? because it goes into the same niche as Chroma. As much as i love him, the buff is too high (not to mention of Chroma's other problems and that Chroma has gotten literally just one tiny job with that after times of everyone not giving a damn about him)  and now you want to give that same stuff to a frame that is (and would be even more) objectively better than him, hm?

What OP suggests is simply broken and hurts the already fragile balance of the game. This reminds me of the dude who thinks that Rhino needs to get the same slf dmg buff Chroma can get "just because chroma has it xdddd".

a frame that has insane damage AND insane dmg reduction AND crowd control? no thanks. Chroma has at least some downsides although they dont make up for the dmg buff admittedly. but he is on the rework list anyways so that will likely change.

we have frames that can have ridiculous dmg output while keeping their damage resistance/CC

 

chroma, mesa, equinox, gara

 

making mirage a more dependable frame by giving us more control instead of the wonky light-dependant feature is just a must, because as i said, its wonky

 

u can keep the shadow buff despite being in light and vice-versa, there are maps where the is simply no light/shadow

 

we need control over eclipse in some way

[Trickst3rGawd]

9 minutes ago, Arkandae said:

FTFY

It's faster to kill everyone than cast the prism.

I'm not sure about what OP means when he says "needs to be able to cycle through her light and dark phases".
There were suggestions like using her 2 as a source of light/darkness, then you have to stay near the gem to get the right buff. There are other issues with eclipse, like for example having a 95% damage reduction buff while being under a bright light. 

To be fair, even if it would help, I dont often need one buff or the other even in sorties so it would feel like a QoL fix, I can live without it. I don't think it would be OP though.

 

"Buffing" yourself with hikou/glaive/whatever (taking one of your weapon slot) because you don't often have the full damage buff when ennemies shoot at you. And Chroma is bugged af, 192000 damage on the eidolon with opticor, ~7500 without buff, how is that a 500% damage multiplier ? If they fix him one day, eidolon group will be more diverse (rhino, octavia, mirage,...).

Mirage is bugged too, but in the wrong way : 

 

 

 

No thank you a lot for letting me know!! I went about this all wrong. I shouldn't have said that you would be able to get the buffs with a click of a button. A light source is a really great idea!!

[Trickst3rGawd]

4 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

we have frames that can have ridiculous dmg output while keeping their damage resistance/CC

 

chroma, mesa, equinox, gara

 

making mirage a more dependable frame by giving us more control instead of the wonky light-dependant feature is just a must, because as i said, its wonky

 

u can keep the shadow buff despite being in light and vice-versa, there are maps where the is simply no light/shadow

 

we need control over eclipse in some way

Exactly!^  Other frames can do what they describe. Thank you for joining this discussion.

[Trickst3rGawd]

Thank you all for your either positive and or /sneak diss ish feed back. I hope to keep this thread going.

[Trickst3rGawd]

2 hours ago, Calumniis said:

so the choice of either getting 400% - 600% dmg or 95% reduction for pressing one button is not op. Aha.

you know why that would be op? because it goes into the same niche as Chroma. As much as i love him, the buff is too high (not to mention of Chroma's other problems and that Chroma has gotten literally just one tiny job with that after times of everyone not giving a damn about him)  and now you want to give that same stuff to a frame that is (and would be even more) objectively better than him, hm?

What OP suggests is simply broken and hurts the already fragile balance of the game. This reminds me of the dude who thinks that Rhino needs to get the same slf dmg buff Chroma can get "just because chroma has it xdddd".

a frame that has insane damage AND insane dmg reduction AND crowd control? no thanks. Chroma has at least some downsides although they dont make up for the dmg buff admittedly. but he is on the rework list anyways so that will likely change.

I can see where you're coming from but there is a first for everything. It seriously isnt that OP. You're acting like there isn't a frame who can't buff herself, cc, kill,turn invisible, and supply herself with infinite energy regency (Octavia). All I'm asking for us to be able to create a light source that would give us the buff we want for a short time. Let's say 15-18 seconds. DE could make it to where we only have 1 or two a mission so we would be forced to use it wisely. I'd even be fine with a cool down rate on that part of the ability. Just be a bit more open minded please.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Trickst3rGawd

[ZodiacShinryu]

My problem with Eclipse is that its connected to a system outside of any frame control, tileset design. The old maps are horrible for Eclipse with really inconsistent and bad visual discrepancies. However newer designed and updated tiles suffer way less. Figuring out most of Phobos, Earth, Void and the shipyard isn't too hard. Oddly the corpus maps behave the strangest with one of the most ancient tiles, the corpus ship, being thee absolute worst. Personally I want to know the exact way the game determines what is going to trigger what on Eclipse. Since there are discrepancies between new and old tiles, the way the lighting code is done is a huge issue.

However I am not ready to just allow Mirage to manipulate the buff at her discretion especially since it is recastable. My Mirage can get Eclipse to ~700% (+697% to be exact) simply solo with 120% clone dmg thanks to Hall of Malevolence. I could do ~800% with Energy Conversion but lower my clones to 80%. All for about 51sec (not that it matters because it is again recastable). She doesn't particularly have energy problems in this build because of that duration efficiency, Zenurik is enough to counter everything.

Of the frames that have been brought up as a support argument for this topic only Octavia (and Banshee arguably) are comparable. Mesa gets her damage from a separate power from her defensive power. If Prism dealt damage like Peacemaker even in the dark this argument falls apart. Gara has to build up her damage on her defensive power. Should for some reason you fail to refresh the duration you have to start all over; Mirage gets her benefits maxed instantly on button press every time. I am not sure about Equinox. Night form by sleep and CL dagger with optional enemy damage debuff? or Day with Maim's bleed and stun (which last I was aware was once per cast) that stores damage? Covert can be utilized by anyone in theory and Maim requires a build up as well, you also cant simply utilize both at the same time. Chroma is... messy. That being said he still has to build up his buff (and continually build it up over and over) in comparison to the instant benefits of Eclipse. I advocate for a better solution for Chroma's Vex dominance but the biggest exploit to its balance is self-damage. You take away self-damage and you'd likely invalidate him as the meta Teralyst killer with just that. My casual Chroma build features like 72sec duration reaching like 434% max fury (btw that's enough to 1shot Teralysts too just so we all understand). Even with that 72sec duration, in a squad I can go that whole duration and not ever reach my max cap fairly often. I have to go out of my way (like sit there and do nothing while the enemy flounders about) sometimes to get Vex stacks even solo.

1 hour ago, Arkandae said:

"Buffing" yourself with hikou/glaive/whatever (taking one of your weapon slot) because you don't often have the full damage buff when ennemies shoot at you. And Chroma is bugged af, 192000 damage on the eidolon with opticor, ~7500 without buff, how is that a 500% damage multiplier ? If they fix him one day, eidolon group will be more diverse (rhino, octavia, mirage,...).

Well self-damage is a problem outside whether anyone believes Chroma should have the damage he has with Vex. And I am not sure if you can call it bugged. DE already looked at his math to make sure he did the same damage when they fixed his misleading numbers (somewhat recently, relatively speaking). It very much seems intended with the caveat that they WILL be coming back to it later (probably with his prime); they already made a statement about this. The larger discrepancies are how and when the math actually plays out. There are likely things left out of other ability calculations when the buff is put through. Like for example maybe Eclipse affects damage only connected to weapons while Vex Fury affects wholesale final damage; as such the damage bonus from weakness to radiation would technically be multiplied as well. Part of those decisions were likely made when factoring in that he has to "risk" himself to gain these numbers as well as festering from 3yrs of age and powercreep. Simply put, it likely is an unfair mathematical mess from the start. Not that such things matter because the only piece of content in this game where this even matters is the Teralyst. Because 700% Mirage is still going to one-shot everything like Chroma within the bounds of the average game.

Also I find it frustrating when people say "more diverse" when talking about meta content. In theory, yes. In reality, no. The meta by the virtue of it purpose has never been that flexible. Generally speaking it is the players unwillingness to experiment that prevents diversity. Eidolon farming is about efficiency that is why the meta exists. You remove Chroma from the top (and when it happens he'll likely not be considered again as long as his Vex functions the same as it does) and the new most efficient frame fills the gap. Octavia already does (is currently doing) what Chroma is doing. I have been in a Octavia DPS eidolon group, it took no longer than a Chroma and she brings other benefits. Yet I don't hear much about it on the forums because Chroma is the simpler louder example. Chroma as far as Teralyst farming goes is not as big an outlier as people make him out to be.

[o.0-]

I've wondered about Mirage ever since PoE released, and I wonder if some synergies could be possible to consider?

• So Mirage is explained as being a sly conjurer, master of illusion, what if casting Hall of Mirrors could be acting to also refract light from Mirage, giving here a cloak of darkness?
  • So not only do the doppelgangers draw attention, they could also work to have Eclipse begin in the shadows, so to speak, with enemies shooting at them instead of Mirage.
    • The Rakta Dark Dagger has a similar effect, so I've had this idea on the back of my mind for some time.
  • This way when Hall of Mirrors and Eclipse are both active, the default state for Eclipse as being very difficult to track from a distance granting the damage resistance buff.
• Next, then ambient light sources, Sleight of Hand's Jewel and Prism can function as sources of light that Mirage can use / generate on command.
  • As the default state is having a shroud, she can then choose when to ramp up damage when necessary in casting other abilities, as there are already different sorts of interplay in here abilities.
  • This also grants her a stronger degree of control out in the Plains to use the damage reduction out there and choose when to light it up to rain hell on the enemy, and could help with how she casts Prism in the first place (I mean the animation length and movement halting).

So could something like this be plausible to consider?

Edited January 3, 2018 by SPARTAN-187.Thanatos
I am getting very sleepy

[Trichouette]

Il y a 5 heures, Trickst3rGawd a dit :

ECLIPSE BEING LIGHT DEPENDENT IS WONKY!!!

Here's my suggestion.

Just like nidus's first ability's range is displayed when he old 1, what about displaying dark/white area for like 5 sec when mirage presses 3 ?

Explanation : You're playing mirage and you just cast eclipse, now if you press 3 again, you can see white and black area on the ground. The black ones mean you'll be in the shadow and receive the damage reduction buff, the white ones mean you'll be in the light and receive the damage amp buff.

That way the ability is less "wonky" because you know exactly where to place yourself. 

(since eclipse is re-castable, just make mirage recast it if you hold 3 for more than a second)

[Autongnosis]

Chroma is being balanced by the fact that he has to work a bit for his buffs, specifically the defensive one. Forget a second about self damage abuse for Teralyst fights, because that scenario is one where you abuse the self damage mechanic while at the same time you have no need for the defensive buff. 

Generally Chroma has to solve his shield problem every recast, because actively being in the fight means you'll most probably be out of shields when Vex Armour drops unless you actively seek out cover beforehand.

On top of that, being non recastable means every once in a while (around 50s for most builds i think?) your buffs reset to zero. While Eclipse can be kept up indefinitely. 

On top of that Mirage can also CC like crazy. She has a more controllable version of Excalibur's Radial Blind. And apparently ALL her clones do damage with melee, so she can get Eclipse buff on top of blind bonus on melee multiplied by 5 times with clones. All the while CCing the whole map. 

It is quite a bit stronger than Chroma. Also apparently there is some wonkyness on how Chroma's buff interact with Teralyst's weak points. 

Also, i think the people who say they need the 95% DR on Mirage probably forget that she has 4 clones with higher threat levels than her and a modicum of parkouring can still keep her safe. 

 

To be honest giving complete control over the buff would probably be a tad too much. It could probably use some touch ups, ie old tilesets need their light/dark mapping updated to better reflect what you see on screen, Eclipse itself should probably highlight in a non-obstrusive way light and dark to make it a bit more obvious etc. Mostly QoL. 

If you want to change the mechanics probably the least intrusive way would be to have Eclipse give the buff based on where it's been cast and not on where you are currently. Since it's recastable it would give you a measure of control while retaining both the loght mechanic and being under cast time and energy cost constraints. 

 

Last note: please, PLEASE stop S#&$tin on other frames to aid your buff campaigns. Just stop. It's not helping your point in any way, AND derails the discussion. 

Last last note: it's true tho that the Plains day/night cycle causes problems and that really shoupd be addressed somehow. I still think changing the tilesets is better than changing the frame since the light mechanic is cool and potentially could be used again in other frames. 

Edited January 3, 2018 by Autongnosis

[TKDancer]

1 hour ago, Autongnosis said:

Chroma is being balanced by the fact that he has to work a bit for his buffs, specifically the defensive one

1 shot at high level is enough to max scourn and give me some fury :^/