Does anyone here actually like the Operator?

[BlackCoMerc]

2 hours ago, Twilight053 said:

And a here's quick list of why operators aren't as bad as doomsdayers say. Discounting forced usage (Kuva+Eidolon, they actually suck and I agree), they are actually very versatile:

1. Void Revive
2. Void Hack
3. Stealth in general, for use with non-spy frames
4. Escaping certain death with Void Mode
5. Slash/Toxin status cancelling
6. Lenz suicide cancelling 
7. And all of the above is not niche, all of these are revelant and can be used in every part of the game: From Starchart to Level 9999. From Grineer to Orokin. From Exterminate to Endless.

And here is some of the arguably niche, yet still a valuable use out of them:

1. Doubled efficiency for hardcore LoR and JV speedrunners (Warframes step on a pad while Operator hacks)
2. Survivability in some cases, like Kela Rockets and Eidolon Teralyst
3. Doesn't cancel out the Warframe's stealth multiplier

While I agree Operators have some glaring problems, like forced Kuva missions, there are also good things about them. They have certain benefit that makes me want to use them (not forced, mind you), like Void Revive, Slash/Toxin Cancel or Lenz Suicide Canceling. But what makes these so different than Kuva Siphons? They don't cancel out Warframe gameplays like Kuva Guardians does, they augment it. These are good design. Something like the dreaded Kuva Guardians? I want to see them removed or fixed.

I agree with your last point, though.

Numbers 1-4 are the same ability restated 4 ways.

Slash and Toxic procs are a broken, shield obsoleting MESS of a design issue that needs to be FIXED.

Six: don't shoot grenades at your own feet, or, why Explosive weapons suck.

Seven: the above actually makes tactical Loadouts choices and non-tank frames matter LESS than they already do. That's actually BAD.

Your Niche Kela survivability is you restating points 1-4 AGAIN. 

All that, and clunky, delayed transference, slow, awkward movement, no durability, no damage...no FUN.

What's to like? I have Loki if I want to be invisible. I don't need Gimpy the Space Kid, aka, Nullifier Guy the Fish Oil hoarding Archwing fanatic's Latest Bad Idea.

Edited January 14, 2018 by BlackCoMerc

[BlackCoMerc]

14 minutes ago, blacklusterseph said:

It may be a disconnect in semantics but unfotunately the common thread in the scenarios you've listed is one of the main reasons Operators draw so much criticism from a gameplay standpoint. In performing a revive/hack/death dodge with your Operator, you are essentially identifying a situation where, for whatever reason, you cannot perform the task with your warframe, so you press a button to stop playing your warframe, and switch to your Operator. From there you then activate an invincibility state to complete the task.

Essentially the game did not allow you a skill or build based option to complete the task, you had to resort to an invicibility state that exisits apart from your warframe (in that your warframe has no effect on its performance). That's why the word 'replace' is used so often. If the Operator augmented your warframe, then it would be doing something to allow your waframe to complete the task (be it hack, revive or survive).

I'm not saying that there is something wrong with players using the Operators to do said tasks, but those scenarios aren't sweeping endorsements of Operator gameplay either as I think people have very valid concerns about what it means for the design/balance of the game going forward. Treating that pattern as ok is I think how you end up with Kuva Guardian-like enemies elsewhere in the game, which are so broken from a scaling or mechanic perspective, but since the OP Operator is there, it gets considered as 'balanced' since we have something that supposedly deals with it.

Well said. I wish more people could see this.

[Fallen_Echo]

2 hours ago, Twilight053 said:

And a here's quick list of why operators aren't as bad as doomsdayers say. Discounting forced usage (Kuva+Eidolon, they actually suck and I agree), they are actually very versatile:

1. Void Revive
2. Void Hack
3. Stealth in general, for use with non-spy frames
4. Escaping certain death with Void Mode
5. Slash/Toxin status cancelling
6. Lenz suicide cancelling 
7. And all of the above is not niche, all of these are revelant and can be used in every part of the game: From Starchart to Level 9999. From Grineer to Orokin. From Exterminate to Endless.

And here is some of the arguably niche, yet still a valuable use out of them:

1. Doubled efficiency for hardcore LoR and JV speedrunners (Warframes step on a pad while Operator hacks)
2. Survivability in some cases, like Kela Rockets and Eidolon Teralyst
3. Doesn't cancel out the Warframe's stealth multiplier

While I agree Operators have some glaring problems, like forced Kuva missions, there are also good things about them. They have certain benefit that makes me want to use them (not forced, mind you), like Void Revive, Slash/Toxin Cancel or Lenz Suicide Canceling. But what makes these so different than Kuva Siphons? They don't cancel out Warframe gameplays like Kuva Guardians does, they augment it. These are good design. Something like the dreaded Kuva Guardians? I want to see them removed or fixed.

I agree with your last point, though.

The red outlined ones are basically the void mode the only unique power operators have and i think its good but some may argue that its not healthy for the game.

You dont have to argue with me i dont think that operators must be eradicated and such.

I think they are an interesting addition what needs to be expanded into equal combat force and not just to fill up holes your original frame cant fill.

[StabbyTentacles]

4 hours ago, Twilight053 said:

doomsdayers say.

Nice way to be open-minded, objective. Lmao

2 hours ago, blacklusterseph said:

I'm not saying that there is something wrong with players using the Operators to do said tasks, but those scenarios aren't sweeping endorsements of Operator gameplay either as I think people have very valid concerns about what it means for the design/balance of the game going forward. Treating that pattern as ok is I think how you end up with Kuva Guardian-like enemies elsewhere in the game, which are so broken from a scaling or mechanic perspective, but since the OP Operator is there, it gets considered as 'balanced' since we have something that supposedly deals with it.

Regular 'Doomsdayers?' Seems pretty reasonable, when read by a reasonable person.

Theory: Operator affects gameplay in negative/inconsistent way. 

An accurate explanation is then given.

Any 'misgivings,' and 'concerns' raised all seem pretty easily perceived or understood; clear, self-evident, or apparent.

Labeling it as Doomsdayers might even be seen as a little 'bury your head in the sandish.' js

[(PSN)BMWWOW]

I find the Operator to be neither here nor there.  Certainly not nearly as dynamic as the Frame itself, but I strongly appreciate the story (would LOVE more of that), and I absolutely LUST for Focus points and applaud the whole Focus system and the extra-distnct customization it affords the player.  Loved Focus Beta, and cannot wait for Focus 2.5 (Focus 2.0 has been a bit lackluster and too expensive as DE knows).  But mostly the Operator is just another added game dynamic, and that's fine as long as they don't force the out-of-frame weakness too much, e.g. making you use the Operator to take down Eidolon shields and then blast with the Frame was fine.  If they beefed up the Operator dramatically in some creative way I certainly would not mind.

[Eljureo]

Fun fact.

I now use my operator whenever my warframe or weapons are nolonger strong enough...

Scenario A, I bring banshee and leveling weapons to a capture mission... Keel keel.. Omg I cannot kill capture target.  5, slide, whoop baam, X, capture done, 5, back to gimpyframe.

Scenario B, long &#! survival my Nekros is out of health and energy, panic time! 5, void dash to a new room, pop invisibility and capture life support. 5, notice Nekros is now at full health due to Arcane from Quills, and fight again.

Then there is energy regen from Zenurik, Narmon endless melee counter and Unairu armor stripping, but those are just extras.

As disclaimer, my focus is almost done, all waybounds unlocked. 1150 hp, max armor and nurish arcsne for healing my frame. Few months ago with mote amp and 250hp things were a little different.

 

[Twilight053]

I will enlist points I disagree and agree in red and green.

3 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

1) Numbers 1-4 are the same ability restated 4 ways.

1)Slash and Toxic procs are a broken, shield obsoleting MESS of a design issue that needs to be FIXED.

2) Six: don't shoot grenades at your own feet, or, why Explosive weapons suck.

3) Seven: the above actually makes tactical Loadouts choices and non-tank frames matter LESS than they already do. That's actually BAD.

1) Your Niche Kela survivability is you restating points 1-4 AGAIN. 

All that, and clunky, delayed transference, slow, awkward movement, no durability, no damage...no FUN.

4) What's to like? I have Loki if I want to be invisible. I don't need Gimpy the Space Kid, aka, Nullifier Guy the Fish Oil hoarding Archwing fanatic's Latest Bad Idea.

Disagree

1) The fact that this one ability can be used in so many scenarios makes it an interesting ability. Again, they don't force me to use it, they make me want to use it.

2) Grenades has always been this way since the age of dinosaurs. Adding a way to combat Lenz suicide further is never a bad thing.

3) I don't understand this statement. Matter less how? Why does tank frames need extra survivability?

4) Basically Point 3 restated. Why does it have to be Loki? Why can't I use Operator invisibility on frames I WANT to play?

Agree

1) I agree, I have no idea what went under DE's head when they delayed shield gating...

2) I also agree, Archwing Fish Oil is a horrible idea. Why can't we infinitely fly? Why does DE likes to undermine the things they develop themselves?

[Qaenyin]

1 hour ago, Eljureo said:

Fun fact.

I now use my operator whenever my warframe or weapons are nolonger strong enough...

Scenario A, I bring banshee and leveling weapons to a capture mission... Keel keel.. Omg I cannot kill capture target.  5, slide, whoop baam, X, capture done, 5, back to gimpyframe.

Scenario B, long &#! survival my Nekros is out of health and energy, panic time! 5, void dash to a new room, pop invisibility and capture life support. 5, notice Nekros is now at full health due to Arcane from Quills, and fight again.

Then there is energy regen from Zenurik, Narmon endless melee counter and Unairu armor stripping, but those are just extras.

As disclaimer, my focus is almost done, all waybounds unlocked. 1150 hp, max armor and nurish arcsne for healing my frame. Few months ago with mote amp and 250hp things were a little different.

 

This describes most if not all of how I feel about the Focus tree. Once you get the waybounds unlocked(ESPECIALLY the Armor and Health waybounds) the Operator becomes significantly more enjoyable to play. The focus investment to get the operator to playable levels of durability is insane.

[StabbyTentacles]

1 hour ago, Eljureo said:

As disclaimer, my focus is almost done, all waybounds unlocked. 1150 hp, max armor and nurish arcsne for healing my frame. Few months ago with mote amp and 250hp things were a little different.

Eljureo, I too have all waybounds unlocked. I have hunted Eidolons, Kuva, played my maxed out operator. Tried not to find it graceless, needless and redundant. But alas I have failed; this is my personal assessment. I can see how players can 'like' the operator. What I can not see why we all have to use, and 'like' the operator.

I'm not saying you personally are pushing this agenda, but I am seeing it/observing this and find it bizarre.

If people enjoy the operator I wish them nothing but joy.  It's notable that many of those same players seem unable to return this courtesy. To the great many players who wish not to embrace the operator. Even when these players explain at length the why's and how's that may have brought them to their belief/position.

 

 

[(PSN)Musicopia]

31 minutes ago, StabbyTentacles said:

Eljureo, I too have all waybounds unlocked. I have hunted Eidolons, Kuva, played my maxed out operator. Tried not to find it graceless, needless and redundant. But alas I have failed; this is my personal assessment. I can see how players can 'like' the operator. What I can not see why we all have to use, and 'like' the operator.

I'm not saying you personally are pushing this agenda, but I am seeing it/observing this and find it bizarre.

If people enjoy the operator I wish them nothing but joy.  It's notable that many of those same players seem unable to return this courtesy. To the great many players who wish not to embrace the operator. Even when these players explain at length the why's and how's that may have brought them to their belief/position.

 

 

The thing is DE are focusing on more content for the operators, like the 2 new teralysts etc. and I'm willing to bet the 2nd open world space will also have some form of new operator syndicate. The players who choose to ignore the space kids are most likely going to be left behind in terms of new and up to date content releases. I like the utility of the operators and I've got max rank quills and most of the arcanes that i want (just need a few more gems to finish) but I do find it pretty bold that DE would essentially cut off part of there player base who don't like the operators. 

The space kids aren't going anywhere and unfortunately it seems to be causing a pretty big rift in the community. 

[LSG501]

Operators... I still hate the way they're forced on us, especially the annoying way you're forced to void dash for energy etc with zenurik,  They cost a small fortune in standing, both focus and quill, to get them to a decent level of survivability and offensive capability.  

I still see no real reason for them to have been added to the game but they're here (and they're not going anywhere, iirc this is Steve's 'baby' in the game) and so this is what we get to 'enjoy'...and these are my experiences so your mileage may vary.

Get a bad host and you get lagging eject from warframe, lagging void dash etc etc... which really ruins any chance of using it as intended, get a good host and it's fine.  Oh how we all love important stuff being host side instead of client side.. Switching to using operator in general is jarring even with naramons 30% speed waybound unlocked and it's just so slow and weak compared with a warframe. 

Constantly get annoyed with required controls for void dash when they don't react quick enough meaning you jump instead of void dash...

Kuva farming, still as monotonous as the day it was released and really needs a buff to how much kuva you get imo to make me want to do it more often.

Doing a public teralyst hunt (I'll ignore the lure issues) with a team that actually works well together, actually went in there for a teralyst hunt (really needs a 'hunt teralyst' mission rather than open world) and it's actually quite enjoyable even with my dislike for the forced operator.... comes away with a nice little haul of goodies due to be able to do multiple runs.  On the otherhand...

Doing a public teralyst hunt with a team that doesn't know what they're doing (seems quite common), or even better yet hasn't even got their operator and decides to stick around and keep getting killed.... (got to love newbies being allowed into the 'veteran' fights)... comes away with next to nothing and feeling annoyed due to the fact that I've just wasted the entire night period (yes I know there's recruit and abort options but you shouldn't need to rely on this 4 months after release).  Dislikes the forced use of the operator again and wishes it wasn't needed for teralyst hunt. 

So how do I feel about operators, seeing as I'm basically just farming the teralyst at the moment for focus and quills standing, it's one of occasional enjoyment with a lot more annoyance, either due to needing to abort for a group that can actually do the eidolon or it just taking much longer than it should do.

I suppose the ability to use the operator in cloaked mode to do things like spy and revives is handy but the former is still easier with ivara imo.

I am not looking forward to even more 'forced' operator content, we need more warframe environments, not stuff that forces us to use the operator just because DE needs to justify the addition of the operator.

 

 

Edited January 15, 2018 by LSG501
typo

[Gamma745]

9 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

1- Okay my main problem here was that DE knows the ongoing joke "fashionframe is endgame" and how important fashion is. The PoE update literally brought us 3 new armors and thats all. (if i remember right) I believe it shouldnt take this much time to come up with a new armor set or reduce the size of our syndanas to make them useable on operators.

I do believe it's because the design team, the modeler, and the animator are also needed to make other contents as well. Cut them a little slack.

As for re-sizing the Syandana for Operator use, would that really be good for Operator fashion? I guess I'll have to see it for myself to know.

 

9 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

2- The arcanes are true but they are mostly limited to usage, just like how they are on warframes. You unlock the best and thats all, as for the focus waybounds they are not customization options but a simple-line upgrade path. You cant really go and say that you dont need X because you prefer Y here, you either upgrade or not.

As for the Arcanes, that is the reason I'm kind of waiting for that 'Arcane slot' Steve mentioned in one of the stream (it was Steve, right?). I'm not so sure about more Arcanes though, with this level of grind. Our Amp could get its own unique mods (maybe), not so sure about the Operator themselves.

I understand your point about the waybounds. I suppose that would make the other Focus nodes the customization options. I admit it's only 5 options, though.

 

10 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

4- Actually we dont really know how the stasis system worked, if its the same as limbo's they shouldnt have any problems with moving. Im not sure where i read it but the problem is that they use resized warframe movement sets. All they need is a small storyline where they learn to manipulate void energy into their body to heal up and its done.

I don't think it's like Limbo, since they are still semi-conscious to be able to move the Warframes.

Void healing, huh? That would require a whole new quest. Wouldn't say no, but I don't think that's what DE intend to do with them

 

10 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

5- I hoped them to by on par with warframes, because they use the same combat platform they must perform equally and in an unique way. I hoped that they will upgrade the focus tree in a way to apply those to them for various unique effects and not as copy-paste less useable wf powers.

So you actually want them to be as strong. Okay, noted. It's just that I saw some people who are complaining that the Operator is replacing Warframes and this could make them even more loud and obnoxious.

Unique capabilities from our Focus school does sound nice. Unfortunately though, with the wide variety and concept our Warframe encompass, it's becoming increasingly difficult to make something without someone drawing some similarities.

 

10 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

6- I dont really think the other half will ever reach us.

Gah, I sure hope it will reach us. Waiting around 15-16 years to max out the Focus schools doesn't sound to appealling, but doing the meta focus farm sound even less appealling.

 

10 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

8- We no longer consider lv40 enviroment challanging or anything. The game to many of us have gone to the stage where lv100 is the playzone where one can really use their weapons to their fullest.

My point is that our Amp, which is essentially unmodded, is quite comparable to our unmodded weapons. I mean, you don't exactly take an un-modded Opticor to a level 100 content and still expect it to wreck face, do you? Perhaps, when we finally get more ways to upgrade our Amps, we can see it more useful.

[Gamma745]

10 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

All I have to say in regards to this topic is that my Operator Fashion in Awesome.  :P

Not using the Zauba armor. I rate 6/10. XD

[(PSN)lhbuch]

I used to hate it, now I found two uses: 2 elevate sets make me restore life extremely easily and dashing while invisible covers a A LOT of ground if you have the right nodes unlocked.

[BlackCoMerc]

20 hours ago, Twilight053 said:

I will enlist points I disagree and agree in red and green.

Disagree

1) The fact that this one ability can be used in so many scenarios makes it an interesting ability. Again, they don't force me to use it, they make me want to use it.

2) Grenades has always been this way since the age of dinosaurs. Adding a way to combat Lenz suicide further is never a bad thing.

3) I don't understand this statement. Matter less how? Why does tank frames need extra survivability?

4) Basically Point 3 restated. Why does it have to be Loki? Why can't I use Operator invisibility on frames I WANT to play?

Agree

1) I agree, I have no idea what went under DE's head when they delayed shield gating...

2) I also agree, Archwing Fish Oil is a horrible idea. Why can't we infinitely fly? Why does DE likes to undermine the things they develop themselves?

Utility wise, the Operator is nice. Not great, but useful. It's combat where the Experience goes from tolerable to terrible. Quickly. 

Andeven their utility obsoletes frames, which is bad. You can be invisible with Rhino. Why use Loki? That's...bad.

But again that's DE Undermining their own creation. Ivara and Loki? Nope, use Operator. Kuva Fort? Why bother, it's not rewarding? PoE: all that time on open space, to hold underwhelming bounties in tiny areas...

 

[Haeen]

59 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Utility wise, the Operator is nice. Not great, but useful. It's combat where the Experience goes from tolerable to terrible. Quickly. 

Andeven their utility obsoletes frames, which is bad. You can be invisible with Rhino. Why use Loki? That's...bad.

But again that's DE Undermining their own creation. Ivara and Loki? Nope, use Operator. Kuva Fort? Why bother, it's not rewarding? PoE: all that time on open space, to hold underwhelming bounties in tiny areas...

Honestly, I think you are over exaggerating.

In what way does their utility make any of the frames obsolete?

Loki and Ivara invisibility significantly longer, without a major drainon void energy which Operator's must endure.  On top of this,they are significantly more agile than their Operator's by far, while possessing significant utility. To suggest Operator's are in anyway, undermining the abilities of the warframes is just engaging in hyperbole.

Edited January 15, 2018 by Aegni

[TomCat86]

I do not like the operator, the focus system, the amp and zaw crafting system and the grind involved in all of those. I think its done very poorly, honestly. I still cant take the salt out of myself from learning that I cannot use warframe passives I unlocked from previous trees.. I do not even care for the operator.

[(PSN)Kamranos]

I’ve played since PS4 launch and I love the operator. I haven’t had the time to unlock all my focus skills, and it’s is still tons of fun.

[StabbyTentacles]

22 hours ago, LSG501 said:

Operators... I still hate the way they're forced on us, especially the annoying way you're forced to void dash for energy etc with zenurik,  They cost a small fortune in standing, both focus and quill, to get them to a decent level of survivability and offensive capability. 

22 hours ago, LSG501 said:

I still see no real reason for them to have been added to the game but they're here (and they're not going anywhere, iirc this is Steve's 'baby' in the game) and so this is what we get to 'enjoy'...and these are my experiences so your mileage may vary.

22 hours ago, LSG501 said:

Get a bad host and you get lagging eject from warframe, lagging void dash etc etc... which really ruins any chance of using it as intended, get a good host and it's fine.  Oh how we all love important stuff being host side instead of client side.. Switching to using operator in general is jarring even with naramons 30% speed waybound unlocked and it's just so slow and weak compared with a warframe. 

Constantly get annoyed with required controls for void dash when they don't react quick enough meaning you jump instead of void dash...

As I have nothing but unanimity with all your points thus far... And the laughable void hop, that is not only annoying but fatal at higher levels.

Irritating doesn't really do it justice. But the controls! *flips desk

22 hours ago, LSG501 said:

I am not looking forward to even more 'forced' operator content, we need more warframe environments, not stuff that forces us to use the operator just because DE needs to justify the addition of the operator.

OMFG yes.

#Steve's'baby'-in-the-game, means less Warframe more Operatorframe woo woo

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

Yeah , love my operator.It's really a gamechanger how they changed the clunky and terrible operator 1.0 into something I actually am using more and more to clear missions all over the starchart.

Operator Advantages:

1 - Immortality at the press of a button. Perfect to hack, revive or just to block incoming damage. Having an alternate form that never uses lives when dying is awesome too.

2 - Steath at the touch of a button. That plus the amp is silent makes them pretty good at stealth missions.

3 - Great mobility. Being able to teleport six times in a row very fast over a long distance is really great and speeds up clearing of many missions tremendously.

4 - Energy restoration and other cool abilties , like to restore a frame's health with the right arcane makes them great to buff/heal your frames.

5 - With a good amp and a couple arcanes, operators are actuallly pretty much game viable and capable to solo 75% of the starchart (they start to struggle after lvl 60 enemies).

6 - They feel fresh and give a new feel to the game. Especially fun for vets who have been running these quests for years. Also , they get their own operator challenges , like Eidolons, Kuva Syphons and defeating Kuva Guardians.

7 - While it's tedious to unlock these waybound passives , arcanes and amps, it also gives us vets new progression objectives, which is important because after a while , us vets can get bored when all our frames are maxed with numerous formas, are our weapons are filled with maxed weapons and there's not really anything left to max and develop. Having a totally new secondary form you can improve can really help bring more longevity to the game.

8 - Operator can actually be made somewhat tanky with the right passives and arcanes.

In the end, I think DE kinda nailed operator , and will probably keep improving it even more as time passes. I'm assuming in a year, operators will be even more badass and it'll feel like playing a tag team match where you constantly switch from operator to warframe as both have their pros and cons.

 

Edited January 16, 2018 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[SaferSaviour]

From a lore perspective, I like the Operators. Thematically, they fit into the universe and narrative brilliantly. They tie together loads of pre-existing themes and raise a whole lot of interesting philosophical questions.

From a gameplay point, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to get out of them. I do like the idea of utilising talent trees, and I quite like hunting Eidolons, but the bulk of the game wasn't made for Operators and, boy, does it show. Missions are made for Warframes. The spacing between objectives, the parkour sections, enemy behaviour; it's all designed around the idea that the players will be engaging while in our frames. When I play as an Operator, I feel like I'm in the wrong game.

I'm not averse to the concept of Operator gameplay, but for it to really work, there has to be some gameplay built for Operators rather than Warframes. The War Within worked. It had an atmospheric, desolate, almost survival-horror feel. We didn't cut through hordes of enemies, and we did something Warframes could never do (transfering into the Golden Maw). It was different, but the Operators play differently and that needs to be acknowledged.

[RistN]

Only reason for someone to hate operators is their ignorance.Ones stating they are bad didn't play much kuva missions before focus 2.0 to learn basics of how operators move and work.I also wonder do they have any focus node unlocked...

I agree they should be in someways better and some questions are bothering me like:

why are they kids?

why is there no slots in their appearance tab now when we have arcanes that are placed on armor,helmets(again) and amp's?

why is their cosmetics so bad In both technical and visual way?

why is the game teleporting you mile back if operator falls off map or gets killed?

why when you jump over some ambis and do transferance mid air warframes shell falling off the map counts as operator has fallen off map?

 

[MystMan]

Oof, 10 pages.

If somebody read all that, they can conclude that how operators are perceived by the players is clearly a large radius of different opinions, based on expectations.
People don't like hearing the "that's your opinion" reply, but in this case based on this lengthy thread, it very much is the core of it all: Different opinions, there's no avoiding that. Nobody is right or wrong. DE introduced a new game mode, if the majority like it, success. If not, failure.  It's that simple. If you like it, explain why with direct opinions. If you don't like it, explain why without stretched or exaggerated reasons to make it sound worse than it is.

1. Some people find them too weak. ->  Well, you're supposed to grind content to make them stronger and keep them within mission levels they can handle, just as we did with our frames. I maxed my operator schools and put arcanes on everything, trust me when I say it was worth it and they are viable even in sorties. Or don't use them at all and continue playing the game like you always have. But they are definitely here to stay so make the best of it for now.
2. Some people find them unnecessary -> you can choose to skip them but you'll have to accept you'll go a long time with no new content that you enjoy while the rest of the player base will enjoy it just fine. This is definitely a matter of different opinion, not bad game design. This concept is not new.  For decades there have been games where you control a powerful vehicle of destruction, like a mecha or tank for example, and you could step out of it at any time and control a weaker vulnerable pilot for a task that the giant vehicle cannot do. Warframe / operator system is no different.
3. Some people want them to be equally or even stronger than our frames.  -> Nope. See 2 above. What would be the point changing, if operators could nuke a map just like the frames? There would be no difference in gameplay, it's like you just only switched weapons. Think of it like switching between a barbarian and a magician on the fly in a D&D game. Either can get the job done but being given access to both their tools just makes the game more interesting.
4. Aesthetic or lore criticism -> definitely personal opinions.
5. Issue with controls -> this is a valid point. If it is terrible with controllers, then yea it needs to be looked at.

 

[DatDarkOne]

2 minutes ago, MystMan said:

If somebody read all that, they can conclude that how operators are perceived by the players is clearly a large radius of different opinions, based on expectations.
People don't like hearing the "that's your opinion" reply, but in this case based on this lengthy thread, it very much is the core of it all: Different opinions, there's no avoiding that. Nobody is right or wrong. DE introduced a new game mode, if the majority like it, success. If not, failure.  It's that simple. If you like it, explain why with direct opinions. If you don't like it, explain why without stretched or exaggerated reasons to make it sound worse than it is.

I like this whole post really.

2 minutes ago, MystMan said:

Aesthetic or lore criticism -> definitely personal opinions.

hehe.  You got me with Aesthetic.  I like the fashion aspects. 

3 minutes ago, MystMan said:

Issue with controls -> this is a valid point. If it is terrible with controllers, then yea it needs to be looked at.

I use a controller on PC and using the Operator isn't difficult or hard at all.  It's just as easy as using any other power on the controller which is quite simple.  

[phoenix1992]

I don't like the Operators by *proxy*.

I think the idea was not developed in a good manner in the span of over 2 years. Yes there are some developments now, but no - they are not nearly enough.