Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

10 minutes ago, fatpig84 said:

Basically Rebecca ran faced first into the problem.
They were only at MOT and Ember gets 1 shotted after Fire Quake is gone.
MOT is not even Sortie 1 level.

with no mods

on a caster frame

with

no

mods

and mot is level 40 mobs when u first get there, but have level 80 damage, and it took way more then 1 hit for her to go down, so clearly you didnt watch the video

 

Edited February 3, 2018 by (PS4)Spider_Enigma

[ThorienKELL]

Yes, they will "fix" the ember same way they "fixed" saryn, remember her? And the same way they "fixed" ash who now needs this buff because nobody seems to enjoy their type of "fixing".  You know how armor scales? 2x low damage of ember is still low damage. 50% of range is 1/4th of area which means she will attack 75% targets less then she was able to Ember was good in clearing trash - now she will be good in exactly nothing! Weee! Thank you DE!

 

[jiminatorx]

Old farming method:
Ember WoF. Press 4. Range 37m. Scaling: No. Team buffs: Knockdown only. Draws aggro: No. Energy recharge: Orbs only

New "Skillful" farming method:
Octavia. Press 1234. Repeat 123 every 48 seconds, 4 every 72 seconds. Range: 40m. Scaling: Yes. Team buffs: Yes. Draws aggro: Yes. Energy recharge: Passive, zenurik, orbs.

 

 

[Polleo86]

I haven't commented much on the forums but I just wanted to say: thank you guys for all your hardwork. The Zephyr rework sounds quite exciting :)

Could Nyx's abilities be considered for re-work too? She's a pretty good frame and a lot of fun but with Loki's augment, she's kinda outclassed. Her 4 and its augment is great but the rest of her abilities could use some tweaking I think. 

[paul5473]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

I never used her Powers for damage, it was always for CC.

Agreed 

[vitmerc]

DISCLAIMER:

This is not a rant about the changes. Author of this post believes the change is needed, and wants the change to be done with minimal damage to the existing chroma playstyle.

TL;DR: 
Chroma Vex Armor changes screw over chromas with non-meta weapons

 

Alright, so here we go.

The announced change is as follow:

Quote

CHROMA:

Q: What is the new formula for damage and armor calculation?
A: Instead of [(Base * Mods) * Vex Armor], it is now [Base * (Vex + Mods)], like all other damage boosting abilities.

So here it is. And i believe this is NOT the way to go. Despite the fact consistency is very nice, this change is going to severely limit wargear choice for Chroma. And im about to explain why.

 

Long story short, here are a few examples. I will use three weapons as an example of the effect those changes will make.
My examples are:
Meta weapon: Vaykor Hek

Spoiler

Average weapon: Argonak

Spoiler

Weak weapon: Flux Rifle

Spoiler

 

As by the current formula, Vex Armor will modify the damage of those weapons equally. This means with i.e. 600% dmg increase, all of those weapons will be doing 7 times their normal damage.

 

After the changes, however...

1) The Vaykor Hek:

This is by far the most powerful one of the bunch.
Its a crit gun with multishot riven and only 1 dmg mod +165%.
Thus, a +600% damage is 765% damage after buff, which is +363% by the old standard.

2) The Argonak

Damage: 177% from riven, 165% from damage mod for a total of 342%. +600% to that is 942%, which is +245% to the total damage output

3) The Flux Rifle

Damage: 165% from damage mod, +272% from riven for a total of 437%, +600% to that is 1037%, which is 214% to the total damage output

 

Conclusion: The more riven disposition the weapon has, the less effective the chroma buff is.
This could be a problem, and i am not sure whether there is a solution.

It is worse for the weapons which dont rely on crits, since those rivens can hardly benefit from the crit stats, too.
 

Thus, i believe that the best solution is to simply de-bloat current chroma base value for VEX, instead of changing the mechanic.

Edited February 4, 2018 by vitmerc

[Nero9937]

I member.

i'm still salty over OH being replaced by accelerant.

[(PSN)Rasmus_ep88]

24 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

The damage decrease isn't the big problem with this rework and it's what they've put front and center.

The big problem is his eHP going down to 20% of it's original value and under a lot of other non-tank frames.

Chroma with 100k eHP was already less durable than frames like Nidus, Nekros or Trinity and his kit is built around him taking damage in order to gain that damage buff which is a serious problem when he can take 20% of that damage. Less if it's Puncture / Bleed damage since he's entirely Armor based.

My Nova has more eHP than this version of Chroma and that's without counting her room-wide 75% Slow.

Agree really hope DE listens to these concerns regarding Chromas survivability if this calculation change is introduced for Vex armor

[fatpig84]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said:

with no mods

on a caster frame

with

no

mods

and mot is level 40 mobs when u first get there, but have level 80 damage, and it took way more then 1 hit for her to go down, so clearly you didnt watch the video

 

 

No mods ? Lmao. 
Check how much energy Ember has.  Fire Quake is obviously on.
The build could be on a quick thinking build for all we know.

P.S The Helios had Medi Ray on. It was patching up Ember.
Did you even watch the stream ?

Edited February 3, 2018 by fatpig84

[Xzorn]

I just wanted to kinda showcase this.

-Nova-

17 Particles QT + Vitality + Null Star
87.67%
740 / (1 - 0.8767) = 6,002
1,785 / (1 - 0.8767) = 14,476
300 / 0.15 = 2,000
 = 22,478 eHP

Nova slows enemies in radius by 75%, effective 0.25x multiplier to "most" enemy DPS and increases group damage by 200% aka x3.

-New Chroma-
344% Power Vitality + Primed Vigor + Steel Fiber
350 * (1 + 1.1 + 5.16 + 12.04) = 6,755 = 0.957477
960 / (1- 0.957477) = 22,576.02 eHP

Subject to full Bleed damage, Mitigation halved by Puncture damage. Requires damage taken to gain damage buff. Gives group 1% and 20% reduced damage and increases group damage by x2 - x3 depending on weapon loadout.

 

So Nova is now better at taking abuse, she's faster, she doesn't use armor as her main source of damage reduction. She reduces group damage intake far more and more reliably improves group damage output. Chroma is an inferior Solo Frame. Inferior group frame and just all around bad. Please consider giving Chroma a damage reduction buff. Get him away from Armor. it's not a good source of mitigation and remove this shield management overhead, it's tedious and not fun to play around. Damage taken to deal damage is fine but he needs to actually be able to take damage first.

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

Just now, fatpig84 said:

 

No mods ? Lmao. 
Check how much energy Ember has.  Fire Quake is obviously on.
The build could be on a quick thinking build for all we know.

P.S The Helios had Medi Ray on. It was patching back hits back.
Did you even watch the stream ?

and the ember had base health and sheilds, and survived more then 1 hit... i missed what now?

[Nero9937]

Let's face it.

Titania's ult is closer to what people expected of zephy.

[danielkzlai]

21 minutes ago, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said:

with no mods

on a caster frame

with

no

mods

and mot is level 40 mobs when u first get there, but have level 80 damage, and it took way more then 1 hit for her to go down, so clearly you didnt watch the video

 

that YT vid, 36:05 you can check out her build.

She got one shot by a level 41 Corrupted Crewman from max EHP. Yup definitely needs less range

Edited February 3, 2018 by danielkzlai

[Crewman82]

make chroma 1 be a small cc abilitie and not a toggle abilitie,make chroma 2 and 3 toggle,as for its 4 the description says it strengths nearby allies but i need more info on that cuz i see no buffs ,the cc thing is ok ,now the credit multiplier range is 10meters? increase range plz,now octavia deserves a a nerf becouse she is annoying just like ember and banshee noob limbos and is like a cheese mode no skill needed ,if u have no skills just be octavia ,simple

Edited February 3, 2018 by Crewman82

[fatpig84]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said:

and the ember had base health and sheilds, and survived more then 1 hit... i missed what now?

Ok fine, I will bite. But even with overextended, the reach on WOF was pathetic at full burst.

Edited February 3, 2018 by fatpig84

[(PSN)i____edyourmom]

Any thoughts on making the range on volts 4 be based on duration like novas 4?

[Bladereap3r]

Update Anticipation ...Warframes Revisited bring it ;)

Edited February 3, 2018 by Bladereap3r

[(PSN)Vexx757]

Things wrong with Ash`s bladestorm

 

·        He can`t use bs in a team because other players kill the marked targets e.g ember, mirage with simulor, banshee etc.

·        The animation is shown for every enemy marked red. One enemy mark = 1 sec 30 enemies marked = 30 secs which means bs is too long. Before ash`s clones killed with him shortening bs`s animation now 1^st mark is him doing it which makes bs way too long.

·        Activating bs is slow because of the two stages.

·        When using bs without a melee weapon is even slower to use before the change.

·        It`s harder to activate bs on a controller than on PC.

·        One enemy mark = 15 energy being invisible = 10 firstly it`s energy consuming and secondly what’s the point of watching the animation if I can`t see myself pulling off sick moves.

·        Weapons can kill better than him e.g syndicate procs (which for a damage dealing warframe is VERY BAD)

·        He can`t kill in an AOE anymore (can`t kill enemies behind walls) like embers 4^th ability, banshee's 4^th etc.

·        Because enemy bodies disappear when ash uses bs nekros can`t desecrate the bodies.

The corrected way to fix bladestorm is to keep the old bs but with small changes;

 

·        Enemies that are red can be killed by players.

·        Make bs able to kill as many enemies that are within the radius of the enemy he`s aiming at.

·        If players don’t want to watch the animation they can press 4 again to jump out of it and the clones will continue killing while Ash kills other enemies. So the animation is still there but you have a choice whether you want to watch the animation or not.

Bs has three stages; 1^st stage activates bs, 2^nd stage makes you leave the animation and the 3^rd stage makes you to be able to cancel bs completely. When you jump out of bs, the number of enemies that are going to be killed by bs is shown where the 4^th ability symbol is (like hydroid`s 3^rd ability)

·        (SYNERGY) If you use the 2^nd ability before you use bs enemy bodies will disappear like the way bs is now.

 

PROS

·        If a teammate needs reviving ash can jump out of bs and revive the downed teammate.

·        For the minority of players that have motion sickness while watching bs, those players never have to watch bs ever again.

·        Ash is an option to use in a defense mission solo because if he doesn`t get all enemies in the bs radius those enemies free from bs are destroying the pod. Now he can jump out of bs and kill them off.

·        3^rd stage of bs can be used for situations like ash taking too long to kill high-level targets e.g. lvl 100 ancient healers in the sorties

·        Ash WILL NOT be a kill stealer because other players will be able to kill enemies that are red. The only waframe that can spam his ultimate with no downsides.

·        Increasing the amount of kill he can get makes it fair for him to get kills if warframes like spamming saryn, ember, and a banshee are in the same mission as he is.

·        It will make ash`s augment mod (Rising Storm) more useful, while the clones are killing his melee weapon will increase its strength plus you can also increase the combat multiplier by attacking enemies yourself.

·        With bs like this you no longer forced to use primed fury in your melee weapon to speed up bs if you don`t want to.

·        The indicator will let you know when you can use bs again by the numbers going down to zero.

·        2^nd and 4^th ability have synergy because enemies near the enemy that is assassinated by bs won’t be alerted which means it will add to the stealth multiplayer. This makes it to where you can strategize to either kill multiple enemies stealthily or just go full frontal assault which makes ash a true stealth frame.

 

·        (OPTIONAL) Elemental mods on melee weapons affect his shuriken e.g. toxic mod on melee weapon = toxic shuriken, ice mod on melee weapon = ice shuriken (which will slow enemies down) OR make it scale by melee damage multiplier which will give synergy with his 1^st ability and his melee weapon.

·        (OPTIONAL) when holding the 1^st ability button ash will throw four shuriken’s which will double in damage and duration of ticks (10 secs to 20 secs) at the cost of 50 energy. 

·        (OPTIONAL) Enemies affected by the stun of smoke screen will reduce their accuracy and make them susceptible to damage by 60% for 10 seconds. (can`t be increased or decreased with mods) Although he won`t benefit from the accuracy reduction due to him being cloaked, he will be team friendly by de-buffing enemies, can be use strategically, it also synergises with his 1^st, 3^rd, and 4^th abilities because they will do even more damage due to the enemies being susceptible to damage which makes him an efficient killer.

·        (OPTIONAL) Make ash be able to teleport through windows with his 3^rd ability if there is an enemy, ally, MPC or an object with a health bar on the other side of it. (if you understand the concept of teleporting you will get this)

·        (OPTIONAL) Make ash be able to teleport to enemies in the air (annoying ospreys) with an air finisher or 1 second spent in the air.

·        (OPTIONAL) Aiming and holding the 3^rd ability indicates the area you want to teleport to similar to nidus 1^st ability. This makes it to where you can strategically move around the map sneakily without having to lock on to an enemy and brake the stealth multiplier.

·        (OPTIONAL) If ash uses his 2^nd ability first, his 1^st and 3^rd ability kills will make enemy bodies disappear.

·        (NERF) If a player wants to skip the animation it will cost you 25 energy, same with stopping bs entirely, doing both will cost you 50 energy, plus no matter how much efficiency you put on ash it will still take 25 or 50 energy.

·        (OPTIONAL NERF) Instead of being invulnerable when in bs ash has an 80% damage reduction.

·        FIX: Make his 3^rd ability able to teleport in and out of grates. At the moment he can only teleport in them plus not every grate he can teleport to.

·        FIX: Make ash`s bs apparitions (clones) look the same as ash instead of looking holographic (really the “clones” are meant to represent how fast he is teleporting).

f

 

Look at all the nerfs in the past excalubur, saryn, limbo, valkyre, trinity, mag, mesa, and ash. The difference between them and ash is you can still use their abilities IN A TEAM ash however you cannot. Ash went from the no 1 favourite warframe on Mogamu`s channel to the least liked/used warframe. Ash`s nerf is so bad that before he was vaulted he was worth 20p, his nerf is so bad that he CAN`T KILL LEVEL SIX ENEMIES and that`s without ember spamming saryn or banshee being in the team, if his re-visit was so great why do you see less and less players play him? If it was so great why is there over 100 pages on the ash revisited feedback forms post of people STILL talking about ash`s bs and for the fact that it came out over a year ago. (yh it`s that bad) Let`s call it what it is, if bs was gone ash will be useless vs multiple enemies just like nova, loki, ember and banshee without their 4^th abilities.

As much as I hate to say this but if DE have to nerf ash, just take away the ability to scale by melee weapons reason being is ash back in the day never could scale by melee weapons and he was STILL powerful and ash before did not stop killing the enemies until they were dead so this nerf won`t be a problem.

The thing is he`s not a bad warframe, playing him solo he is very good however in a team, for a damage dealer he is the worst.

On the plus side, in my opinion, everything relating to ash`s appearances is top notch. (besides ash prime`s Pinocchio helmet) Ash, ash prime and koga ash looks sick plus you can make different combinations with his helmets and body skins plus original and prime ash appearance has upgraded from a ninja to a samurai, ash`s passive has made his 1<sup>st</sup> and 4<sup>th</sup> ability even better, ash is unique because he`s the only warframe to has a cinematic to his ability, he has the strongest 4^th ability in the game and he is what this game is about... FUTURISTIC SPACE NINJAS.

Edited February 3, 2018 by (PS4)Vexx757

[MuscleBeach]

On 5/3/2017 at 12:23 PM, D20 said:

When creating a feedback thread, you should be as informative and insightful as possible. Your thread should be able to answer three basic questions :

• What do you like ?
• What do you dislike/What is the issue ?
• How would you fix/improve it ?

4 hours ago, phoenix1992 said:

If WoF currently kills enemies up to 50-60 on it's own, after the "double damage" change it won't kill enemies into 100 range, the enemy scaling does not work like that.

So far this is the only complaint I've seen in this thread that matters. The skill is changing due to unfun reasons, not balance; Because of this, I doubt they're going to change their minds on reducing the range. So instead of complaining about it and saying it sucks, offer a solution that coincides with their decision: 

Instead of more damage (or in addition to it), WoF (or all of ember's ability damage) also deals 1% Finisher damage (or armor reduction) stacking up to the WoF build-up cap. 

Allow WoF enemy cap to slightly increase as it reaches its intensity cap. The cap is probably in there for balance reasons. Considering the skill is changing in a big way, this cap should have another look. 

[Fallen_Echo]

7 hours ago, Vance.Stubbs said:

While old Overheat was definetely useful, I feel it messes with her "combat mage" role too much and plain 95% reduction is ridicilous anyway.

I would like Overheat to be an aura that gives Ember slight resistance to Heat damage. has a chance to "melt" nearby projectiles into nothing and converts all incoming damage into Heat damage, so no more Slash or Toxin procs, only Heat which are benificial for her anyway.

What about a physical wall?

We add a new passive to Ember called overheat.

Each cast and cast-kill generates overheat charge what empowers abilities.

Max 100 charge each charge grants +1% damage and +0.5% max health damage to skills.

When you cast WoF  these charges create a physical barrier of flame around ember granting additional +100% heat damage and every hit ember takes creates an accelerant wave.

Make it drain 1 stack/second and voila you have a proper glass cannon.

[Autongnosis]

il y a 13 minutes, Xzorn a dit :

Snip

Wait a second. Where is this coming from? I watched the stream and i understood they were only changing the math behind the damage part of Vex Armour D:

Edited February 3, 2018 by Autongnosis

[(PSN)Rasmus_ep88]

2 minutes ago, Autongnosis said:

Wait a second. Where is this coming from? I watched the stream and i understood they were only changing the math behind the damage part of Vex Armour D:

Why would the same logic/calculation not be used on both parts of Vex armor? Otherwise it wouldn't have internal consistency

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

6 minutes ago, fatpig84 said:

Ok fine, I will bite. But even with overextended, the reach on WOF was pathetic at full burst.

what if they just changed the augment so the power did no damage but boosted the range? this way u cant jsut kill low level mobsby running to extraction?

[-CM-Grendil]

11 hours ago, DarkRuler2500 said:

She's getting weaker. There might even be a 1000% damage increase but if the range shrinks to non-existance what's the point.
Ember is squishy and needs to avoid getting hit. If the range is so low that enemies aren't stunned by Firequake anymore Ember will bite the dust in any higher-leveled content!

^ THIS.

But according to the White-Knights, Ember-Haters, and trolls, this is fine, and Ember will somehow MAGICALLY avoid taking on massive damage against level 50+ enemies while dealing a tethered damage radius that only actually CC's 3 enemies at most.

People here act like you can take on an entire crowd of enemies one on one.

[Fallen_Echo]

56 minutes ago, Jem991 said:

Right her range decreased , but damage increase. you know. so endgame will be easier.

Energy cost is doubled too.