Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited

[DiabolusUrsus]

1 hour ago, LSG501 said:

Lets see...

we could do what you want and basically turn the game into a run and gun game because that's what you seem to want to play which, if like my experience of hydron would be full of people levelling gear, would make things slower and you'd probably get less xp from it....

That's a slippery slope you're standing on there...

1 hour ago, LSG501 said:

We can turn wof on and off like you're suggesting but if it's still people levelling it will take ages to kill the enemies so after a while we'd end up triggering wof again which would then kill all the enemies...

If you wanna level, get a level-grinding group!

1 hour ago, LSG501 said:

Realistically the only solution for your issues is to basically not play with the other players who play in the 'wrong way' and there is an option to cater for that sort of requirement, it's called abort or use recruit etc.  Actually in all honesty it seems you'd be much happier playing solo....

No. The solution is for people who are too bored to actually play to play with each other. They stop bothering people, and they get even more efficient groups going. Win-win.

1 hour ago, LSG501 said:

Lol... that says it all.. no need to continue because you clearly don't understand that no matter what is done there will ALWAYS be another 'meta' that some players don't like, often as not DE will even introduce them with a new rework or a new frame.....

The goal isn't eliminating the meta. The goal is shrinking the meta so that the gap between "meta" and "non-meta" isn't so huge. Then the meta - no matter what it is - doesn't cause problems.

1 hour ago, LSG501 said:

If we keep nerfing frame abilites just because they're the new meta we might as well just remove them and turn the game into a shoot and melee game...or better yet just remove the warframes completely and be stuck just using the operator...

Can you stop it with the ridiculous fear-mongering? That's not the case at all.

[An8rchy]

21 minutes ago, Himenoinu said:

So? 140% ability range with double the heat damage and still not locked to the ground isn't going to change how Ember will just yolo any mission without firing a single bullet. And seeing how Ember players are running running around the map like a headless chicken anyway, the range won't hinder them in any way. Sure they won't be able to just sit in the middle of a defense mission, digging in the nose for the whole wave's duration - not always. Ember gruppies should actually cheer at the changes - still easy to maintain toggle ability, double the damage and more than decent range for their daily needs.

4

No, cuz ember players don't want double dmg, they want scaling, completely different things

[KurzedMetal]

I'd like to see Zephyr getting a slight improvement in her Tail Wind animation.

I feel it's a bit too slow / clunky as it is right now.

[Autongnosis]

@Xzorn @(PS4)Rasmus_ep88

What the actual F***??? 

WHY

That's complete BS. The damage, alright, but why the EHP? 

[Evultis]

You can retoggle WOF to get the range back. Changes aren't even live and you're already doing the funeral.

[Haeen]

16 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

You do realize you have as many as 3 other teammates who want to play too, right?

 

If all we ever do is try to make everyone happy at the expense of a single player, then no one will ever be happy. It is a slippery slope.

Let alone, if you try to balance the game at lower levels when the game scale to level 100 sorties, then it makes those abiltiies useless at the higher end.

So if WoF is only functional at level 30,  then there is no reason to use Ember.  Ever.

[PsychedelicSnake]

It seems to me that, aside from not wanting Ember to do map-wide damage and CC, want players to make more use of Accelerant. I use it very often and have very little need to use WoF beyond that extra bit of damage. That being said, Scott has acknowledged that only changing WoF isn't good enough and he is going to look into buffing up the rest of her kit to go along with the changes to WoF.

[EL_KOMATCHO]

at first i will only talk about frames that i know how to use / understand

first for chroma "revisit and use ideal methods" 

when you are trying to make people play the game as they like ,want and love when doing endless mission has no use 

chroma was that frame that can face them all be one of the top solo frames and taking away that from him because "we do not want our Eidolons one-shotted." when you are going to introduce new bigger and stronger eidolons  is just  an excuse uglier than sin

and making chroma buff stack is just saving your face water because the range is a joke and i dont want to hug my team to get buffs

now lets talk about ember

“anything under level 30”

"These changes increase lethality at higher levels, while addressing the ability’s huge range."

for real??

did you even looked at the health/damage scaling  in your game ????

 Ember simply DOES NOT have the ability to survive against high level enemies

"Players who can afford to run the ability at max charge may need to get more up close and personal, but the increased damage should help Ember out against higher level enemies" let me guess what "higher level enemies" mean a lvl 31 enemies ?

a lato can kill any thing (including bosses) under lvl 30,plus you are killing her cc ability and now its impossible to take her to sortie lvl

lets talk about her abilities:

1st one is a joke

2nd one is a buff for her 3rd & 4th

3rd is a burst damage when you need it

4th the only good thing she has and now you are burning that to the ground

DONT look at the star chart as a testing field because there is sortie every day and they are not lvl 30-40 

after playing for so long the incoming nerfs will set 26GB from my drive free

Edited February 3, 2018 by EL_KOMATCHO

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

7 minutes ago, Caelward said:

You might think that melee is her weakness, but it's explosive weapons that'll smash her dead without you realizing what happened.

Turbulence allows more shots to actually hit you from underneath. It is a fantastic defense, but it isn't perfect.

 

Hovering means holding still and this is the last thing I ever want to do with Zephyr. I'm not saying everyone should agree with me, but I don't like it. If I wanted to stay still and act like a turret, I'd play Mesa.

Yeah this is going to be harder to explain to people that don't normally play Zephyr. I tried making a thread to voice my concerns too. I 100% know where you're coming from with this though.

Let me know if you share any of the same concerns 

 

[Caelward]

That nails it right about on the head. Why should I sit in one spot when I can already boost all over the place and maintain my height over long periods of time already?

The hover just strikes me as an unnecessary step that misses the point of Zephyr. A step that calls back to many people wanting Zephyr to be like another frame.

[Haeen]

4 minutes ago, Antaeon said:

You can retoggle WOF to get the range back. Changes aren't even live and you're already doing the funeral.

Except for the fact there is an activation cost, and that the longer you use WoF the more energy it costs.

Double the damage but halving range and doubling energy use is just not a good method of balancing the ability.

 

[(PSN)TertulSee]

9 minutes ago, Antaeon said:

You can retoggle WOF to get the range back. Changes aren't even live and you're already doing the funeral.

Well, still, her damage doesn’t scale well and the rest of her kit doesn’t do much. The point of this was to point out the CC aspect of Ember and not her damage. 5 seconds of CC is too less because by the time she finishes casting it, she would have to deactivate it again.

My Current build doesn’t need Range but the change basically forces Range on her. She can barely cover half the room right now so it makes it to basically Melee Range now.

Edited February 3, 2018 by (PS4)godlysparta

[Xzorn]

5 minutes ago, Autongnosis said:

@Xzorn @(PS4)Rasmus_ep88

What the actual F***??? 

WHY

That's complete BS. The damage, alright, but why the EHP? 

 

Exactly. That's why I haven't been arguing the damage portion cuz in the end it's always been overkill. Eventually enemy damage scales to where Chroma can't buff himself anyways so it's not a big deal and that seems to be their focus but they're ruining his already questionable survival along with it which is just awful.

[(PSN)AtomicEyekon]

"My ideas to make Ash Bladestorm better" UnNerf WOW That Was Easy

[PsychedelicSnake]

5 minutes ago, Aegni said:

Except for the fact there is an activation cost, and that the longer you use WoF the more energy it costs.

Double the damage but halving range and doubling energy use is just not a good method of balancing the ability.

 

I'm personally fine with all the WoF changes except the gradually increasing energy cost. Ember already has the shrinking range and fragility to balance it out. She doesn't need a third counterbalance.

[(PSN)AtomicEyekon]

To be fair and honest you cannot say or RIP unless you tried it

[DroopingPuppy]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)godlysparta said:

Ember. She gained (nothing) but lost (damage and) most of her CC.

 

Fixed for you. WOF is now meaningless because we need to be within 10m of the enemy(consider Stretch on her). Damage is only meaningful if we can apply it.

Edited February 3, 2018 by DroopingPuppy

[Haeen]

1 minute ago, PsychedelicSnake said:

I'm personally fine with all the WoF changes except the gradually increasing energy cost. Ember already has the shrinking range and fragility to balance it out. She doesn't need a third counterbalance.

Shrinking range on a very squishy frame = bad.

It is why frames such as Mag, Equinox, Volt, Mesa, and a few others have greater range than say, Excalibur or Chroma or  Frost.

If they're going to force her range to be smaller, force her into areas where she'll be in greater danger they need to give her mor survivability.

[DiabolusUrsus]

9 minutes ago, Aegni said:

If all we ever do is try to make everyone happy at the expense of a single player, then no one will ever be happy. It is a slippery slope.

No, it isn't. It's not particularly difficult or taxing to do, and if you want to play a specific way you are welcome to form a group of like-minded individuals. Otherwise just hold back a little bit and everyone has a good time.

If you having a good time means 3 other people not having a good time, perhaps you shouldn't be playing with those 3 other people. That doesn't mean you have to play alone, but at the very least don't be so selfish as to insist that your fun is more important than their fun.

Show some courtesy.

9 minutes ago, Aegni said:

Let alone, if you try to balance the game at lower levels when the game scale to level 100 sorties, then it makes those abiltiies useless at the higher end.

I didn't say that we should balance around lower levels. I actually agree that is a bad idea.

9 minutes ago, Aegni said:

So if WoF is only functional at level 30,  then there is no reason to use Ember.  Ever.

Which is why I would much rather have seen a damage and scalability buff to WoF combined with a near-universal nerf to energy economy to prevent effectively infinite energy.

[phoenix1992]

22 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

Actually, I know how Ember works just fine...  which is why she's starchart only and not a frame that I feel is tanky enough to take into sorties... even though Firequake WoF can help make her survivable.

It is only your opinion. Both Ember and Mag go into sorties and come out, as long as you have APM required for that.

[Ragnarok160]

Bet we will still get the weeky ember sucks please fix/ buff her forum topics

[Darkmoone1]

I'm happy with almost all of these changes. Chroma in particular, as its Vex calculation was a long time coming and I'm glad Spectral Scream will work with Vex armor, at the very least giving the ability some flexibility and much needed damage. Atlas is another one I have to commend you guys on. However, Atlas's Landslide augment will circumvent a lot of the synergistic changes to petrify(Not that that's a bad thing.) 

A bit confused as to why you didn't do anything more for Ember though. I'm pretty sure the reason WoF is used so much, and in early-mid game missions, is due to how lacking all of her other abilities are. Especially her first, as it doesn't do nearly as much. With this nerf, I'm pretty sure the usage of Ember is going to drop dramatically, even in early-mid game missions. She needs buffs of offset this change.

Good to see Volt finally being unleashed. Ash changes will finally allow me to play him a bit more, as Bladestorm currently never sat well with me. Can't comment on the rest as I don't play them nearly as much, but I'm glad you guys are finally sinking your teeth into frames that desperately needed changes. Now I'll just hope they are executed well.

[DroopingPuppy]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)AtomicEyekon said:

To be fair and honest you cannot say or RIP unless you tried it

We do, and have to, because it may change their mind.

We are already aware that it is a supposed change. But, if we don't say something then it is unlikely that it changes. Literally, the change means removing Ember from the game so even consider we don't know about detailed changes we need to warn them. Well, we can't change everything, but I don't think that just sit and wait for doom is a solution.

Edited February 3, 2018 by DroopingPuppy

[Almagnus1]

2 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

It is only your opinion. Both Ember and Mag go into sorties and come out, as long as you have APM required for that.

Or (more likely) you have a squad that can carry you.

[(PSN)JonathGariepy]

il y a 7 minutes, Xzorn a dit :

 

Exactly. That's why I haven't been arguing the damage portion cuz in the end it's always been overkill. Eventually enemy damage scales to where Chroma can't buff himself anyways so it's not a big deal and that seems to be their focus but they're ruining his already questionable survival along with it which is just awful.

Hopefully they go back on their decision... Otherwise can't they just freaking release a gun-play oriented tank frame so everyone can move on from Chroma -.-