Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited

[(XBOX)Let Driscoll]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

I'm with you.  See my previous post.  It's not even just about losing even more survivability at high levels.  It's about penalizing squad integrity and interrupting the signature speed and combat combo that is Warframe's trademark.  They can use my account...I'm not sure exactly for testing what but don't care.  Volt is my Primary.

My build is a bit more balanced but I use the same philosophy and boost survivability with Capacitance.

Silverback73

PSN North America

Same here.

[Simmml]

Am 2/9/2018 um 23:19 schrieb JetFuelFeelz:

Id love to see some of the fashions you do with mag, you have to get really creative if ya need over 60 slots

https://imgur.com/a/3xWES

More coming

[JetFuelFeelz]

4 minutes ago, Simmml said:

https://imgur.com/a/3xWES

More coming

my fave is the one with the burston

[Strajder]

Because my main frame is Ember Prime I tested the changes today and I must say that the range nerf is too high. As you devs said Ember is not strong frame to play with on higher levels so we players had to compensate this with high range and knock back augment so we can survive and keep enemies at bay until we kill them with weapons. High range is what keeps ember alive and valid frame and not her world of fire ult which is rather weak on higher levels.  Now even the double damage is not enough to stay alive because frame is still squishy and with halved range we need to stay to close to the enemy to apply that damage. What we need is to you increase toughness of the frame or to reduce the range nerf.

[(XBOX)ZenithLord 42]

4 hours ago, Strajder said:

Because my main frame is Ember Prime I tested the changes today and I must say that the range nerf is too high. As you devs said Ember is not strong frame to play with on higher levels so we players had to compensate this with high range and knock back augment so we can survive and keep enemies at bay until we kill them with weapons. High range is what keeps ember alive and valid frame and not her world of fire ult which is rather weak on higher levels.  Now even the double damage is not enough to stay alive because frame is still squishy and with halved range we need to stay to close to the enemy to apply that damage. What we need is to you increase toughness of the frame or to reduce the range nerf.

I haven't yet tested any of the rework yet, (XboxOne) but the range nerf was my primary concern aside from her needing more damage to be effective at higher levels. 

I basically have 3 Ember builds which are: 

1. More power strength (130%-145%) for extra damage, efficiency (130%), and mods for speed and bullet jumping. This is for clearing low levels quickly and efficiently. 

2. High damage (155%+), high efficiency (160%), maybe an augment mod, and then mods for increased shields and health. Mid level defense missions. 

3. More power strength (130%), maximum efficiency (175%), mods for more speed and shields, and finally the WoF augment for knocking enemies down. Survival missions and high level content. 

So, as you can see Ember easily clears lower levels and also can CC higher levels effectively with her augment. Really the only problems with her are her "squishyness" and her "black and white" approach to combat in that she either completely destroys all opposition (low level) or she tickles enemies to death (high level) and becomes more of a liability to a squad unless she is uses a mandatory augment mod. 

This change of more damage, and decreases in both range and efficiency destroys being able to both clear low level content and to effectively CC. 

In these two cases of allowing other players to get kills besides the one Ember in the squad during low level missions and maintaining survivability during high level content, DE could have simply decreased the damage of WoF and increased the damage of her other abilities and perhaps added more synergy between abilities when combined with WoF. 

Only time will tell what state our Fire Chicken ends up in, medium or burned to a crisp. 

[FlareFluffsune]

Wow thanks, I really enjoy having my solo frame nerfed. I've been playing Ember ever since I first started playing this game and found her fitting for my soloing. What a load of bunk.

[Himenoinu]

9 hours ago, (Xbox One)ZenithLord 42 said:

In these two cases of allowing other players to get kills besides the one Ember in the squad during low level missions and maintaining survivability during high level content, DE could have simply decreased the damage of WoF and increased the damage of her other abilities and perhaps added more synergy between abilities when combined with WoF. 

What happened to Ember and Banshee is our own fault. Of course, the problem could've been countered by changing the enemy AI, mechanics and scaling (which, one day, will HAVE to happen). To keep consistent with her theme, the damage needs to be high, stuff must burn, but not the whole world, regardless of the ability's name ;) They could maybe just integrate the augument into the skill (the kd)? And make a new aug that applies corrosion to enemies caught by WoF.

And I think DE did that with the other abilities.

7 hours ago, FlareFluffsune said:

Wow thanks, I really enjoy having my solo frame nerfed. I've been playing Ember ever since I first started playing this game and found her fitting for my soloing. What a load of bunk.

And I BET you were only playing alone on Ember! Or maybe joining public missions and imagining you're alone

[Strajder]

13 hours ago, (Xbox One)ZenithLord 42 said:

I haven't yet tested any of the rework yet, (XboxOne) but the range nerf was my primary concern aside from her needing more damage to be effective at higher levels. 

I basically have 3 Ember builds which are: 

1. More power strength (130%-145%) for extra damage, efficiency (130%), and mods for speed and bullet jumping. This is for clearing low levels quickly and efficiently. 

2. High damage (155%+), high efficiency (160%), maybe an augment mod, and then mods for increased shields and health. Mid level defense missions. 

3. More power strength (130%), maximum efficiency (175%), mods for more speed and shields, and finally the WoF augment for knocking enemies down. Survival missions and high level content. 

So, as you can see Ember easily clears lower levels and also can CC higher levels effectively with her augment. Really the only problems with her are her "squishyness" and her "black and white" approach to combat in that she either completely destroys all opposition (low level) or she tickles enemies to death (high level) and becomes more of a liability to a squad unless she is uses a mandatory augment mod. 

This change of more damage, and decreases in both range and efficiency destroys being able to both clear low level content and to effectively CC. 

In these two cases of allowing other players to get kills besides the one Ember in the squad during low level missions and maintaining survivability during high level content, DE could have simply decreased the damage of WoF and increased the damage of her other abilities and perhaps added more synergy between abilities when combined with WoF. 

Only time will tell what state our Fire Chicken ends up in, medium or burned to a crisp. 

As I said I tested ember almost all day yesterday in various missions from low to high and even the triple damage boost would not be enough because of the halved range on higher levels. As we said she is too squishy, high level enemies (50+ lvl) one shot her instantly and only thing we could do to counter that is to use high range and Firequake augment so we can keep then at bay and kill them with weapons because the damage of WoF is also low for the high level missions. Because of this Ember was a very welcome frame in high level missions, she didn't apply high damage but rather knock back enemies so the entire team had enough time to clear mobs with weapons. Reducing the range now basically renders Ember useless for the high level missions. 

So as I said in my previous post devs need to boost her toughness considerably so she can withstand high level enemies to be able to get close to them to counter halved range and to be able to effectively apply WoF and to increase the damage apply speed of WoF or to remove range nerf and double the cost of the WoF.

What I find it to be so stupid is to nerf ember only because some players didn't like how ember clears low level missions. Ember was perfectly fine before the nerf, she excels at low level missions while she is not that good for high level missions but with her high range and knock back augment she can be a good support frame for crowd controlling.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Strajder

[(PSN)drakethewrapper]

i use ash, chroma, and volt quite often and would like to know when do you think these things would come out for ps4?

 

[(XBOX)ZenithLord 42]

I agree completely Strajder! Her usefulness in high level missions is all about WoF and her Firequake augment. 

From what I've heard from you and other Tenno on PC, I think the nerf to her range is absurd! 

There are five things I always have wished were additions to her kit that would have made her perfect to me would be: 

1. a charge for more damage for her #1 (which we now have on Ember and Madurai focus), 

2. a damage multiplier when Accelerant is cast again on the same enemies, 

3. a chance to apply heat damage to weapons when shot from inside Ember's Fire Blast with the same chance also applying to increasing the damage of weapons that already have heat damage, 

4. damage scaling for World on Fire that is dependent on enemy level (I don't really like this idea, but it would reduce the number of kills on lower levels and increase the number of kills on higher ones (that's actual balance, DE, the world is on fire not just the area around her)), 

5. and two additions to her passive; more power strength and damage resistance while on fire. 

I agree also with you, Strajder, that the range nerf should not have happened because of lower level players who aren't playing Ember not getting kills. 

It was also a poor move and a genius one on DE's part right at the time of her unvaulting. It is a poor move because it really hurts the frame in general. It's a genius idea because of so many new players joining now because of the Prime Unvaulting and possibly adding to player retention so that everyone can get kills and not be "OP" right out of the box... 

 

[Feigardnir]

Ember die for me.

280 = 20m ultimate.

 

I can kill enemy my lecta on 20m.

[UrielColtan]

On 2/12/2018 at 1:24 AM, Himenoinu said:

What happened to Ember and Banshee is our own fault. Of course, the problem could've been countered by changing the enemy AI, mechanics and scaling (which, one day, will HAVE to happen). To keep consistent with her theme, the damage needs to be high, stuff must burn, but not the whole world, regardless of the ability's name ;) They could maybe just integrate the augument into the skill (the kd)? And make a new aug that applies corrosion to enemies caught by WoF.

And I think DE did that with the other abilities.

I don't care for this "our fault" logic. People just used the power. Its only our fault if we don't offer suggestions, improvements or tradeoffs.

Scaling and enemy spawns also used to be higher actually. DE lowered enemy spawns, seemingly for soft XP nerfing and oxygen capsule nerfing, as opposed to adjusting xp numbers. Probably fearing the likes of Viver backlash. I presume XP is also why start chart enemy levels are pretty low too, outside of the likes of sorties.

Edited February 14, 2018 by UrielColtan

[(XBOX)NeutralSilence]

6 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

I don't care for this "our fault" logic. People just used the power. Its only our fault if we don't offer suggestions, improvements or tradeoffs.

Scaling and enemy spawns also used to be higher actually. DE lowered enemy spawns, seemingly for soft XP nerfing and oxygen capsule nerfing, as opposed to adjusting xp numbers. I presume XP is also why enemy scaling is pretty low too, outside of the likes of sorties.

 I agree. DE dug this hole themselves and now we're paying the price for it. If the scaling wasnt so damn wonky we would not be having these problems.

[Cephalon_Wolf]

On 2/2/2018 at 6:28 PM, yianniscy84 said:

I have a bug to report for Ember. Try to put an Energy Restore while Ember's World On Fire is running. You will see that you do not gain energy. Please fix it.

It is not a bug, you do not receive energy from pods/abilities while a channeling ability is active.

[Jabett]

Atlas doesn't stack enough armour, his rubble sucks frankly, and the amount enemies drop is pitiful.
Suggestions:uncapped, give more rubble per drop (say 100, or 75 for enemies such as butchers, or turrets), decrease the drain further at lower than 1k armour, and slowly increase drain per 500-1000 armour gained, as even with 1500 rubble (which will never happen, you get maybe 2-3 seconds with 1500 before the drain starts) his ehp is lower than all other tanks

[Deathduelist]

So I had an epiphany while playing Ember today. Why not have her napalm from fireball burn herself, and instead of damaging her, it would constantly heal her for a duration. This would only be for fire from her 1 and not from other sources. This way her 1 would be more useful and would synergize with her passive. Also have it give her bonus armor while doused with napalm inside fireblast or something.
Another thing I thought might be nice is having a constant max range (while max power) for world on fire while inside fireblast. Which could flow like fireblast > world on fire > possibly kill everything > bullet jump to next area > fireblast > rinse repeat? 

[Nesferion]

On 3.2.2018 at 6:50 PM, dataman88 said:

how is "Ember" and "Power Creep" even in the same sentence?

Guess cause she cleaned everything up to level 40 - 50 very fast. Making her ultra-efficient. That's how, but I said in my opinion. If you think differently please, don't quote me on something where I agree with the rework. Power Creep = too efficient. I guess her's price explained itself.

[LSG501]

15 hours ago, Deathduelist said:

So I had an epiphany while playing Ember today. Why not have her napalm from fireball burn herself, and instead of damaging her, it would constantly heal her for a duration. This would only be for fire from her 1 and not from other sources. This way her 1 would be more useful and would synergize with her passive. Also have it give her bonus armor while doused with napalm inside fireblast or something.
Another thing I thought might be nice is having a constant max range (while max power) for world on fire while inside fireblast. Which could flow like fireblast > world on fire > possibly kill everything > bullet jump to next area > fireblast > rinse repeat? 

new augment mod coming soon.... healing napalm....

I very much doubt DE would add that to her kit as standard even though it's still really a high risk ability.

[UrielColtan]

22 hours ago, Deathduelist said:

So I had an epiphany while playing Ember today. Why not have her napalm from fireball burn herself, and instead of damaging her, it would constantly heal her for a duration. This would only be for fire from her 1 and not from other sources. This way her 1 would be more useful and would synergize with her passive. Also have it give her bonus armor while doused with napalm inside fireblast or something.
Another thing I thought might be nice is having a constant max range (while max power) for world on fire while inside fireblast. Which could flow like fireblast > world on fire > possibly kill everything > bullet jump to next area > fireblast > rinse repeat? 

I was going to suggest something similar in the vain of the Warmth pyromancy in Dark Souls 2 and 3, though I would have the orb follow Ember. Either way, such an ability would really fall in line with her supposed Phoenix theme.

Edited February 14, 2018 by UrielColtan

[GodlyAbsence]

Wow you guys are really gonna ruin Ember now? She was so good for certain solo missions now I can't have an energy efficient build? I'm just gonna stick to Fortnite. 

[kentolk]

wow

Edited February 16, 2018 by kentolk

[kentolk]

this very good ideas!

Edited February 16, 2018 by kentolk

[(XBOX)Harbinger XK5]

On 2/8/2018 at 2:57 AM, Duffy1 said:

As someone who mains Ember, I'm not sure how I feel about the change, I use ember in very high levels, as a superior, close proximity CC. Standard range with the Fire Quake allows ember to survive with my weapons doing the damage, knocking down enemies as you get near with WoF, with the fire status also doing CC, the use of Accelerant to stun larger groups. Ember gets very little kills, Survival-ability is relied on the CC and fast movements and kills with melee and medium to long range weapons. I know of no one who uses Ember like this, but that is how I feel she should be used, an unseen potential, so much CC potential, overlooked. With this change, it will definitely allow her to scale in high levels... as a wipe out frame. However, despite my concerns I do think you are heading in the right direction.

This change to ember is absolutely absurd, her cast and forget trait is what made her my most favorite frame, and now i doubt i'll even be able to stomach using the frame anymore, especially since it already took a lot of work to make her range decent.

These constant bombardments of nerfs and changes are ruining the game for and countless of my friends, all we want is to be left alone to play the game together the way we love. 

[(XBOX)Harbinger XK5]

Just now, (Xbox One)Harbinger XK5 said:

This change to ember is absolutely absurd, her cast and forget trait is what made her my most favorite frame, and now i doubt i'll even be able to stomach using the frame anymore, especially since it already took a lot of work to make her range decent.

These constant bombardments of nerfs and changes are ruining the game for me and countless of my friends, all we want is to be left alone to play the game together the way we love. 

 

[Vilitas]

Ember sucked enough as it is, let's make her so nobody will want to use her, just like we did with Mag.

 

Kek.