Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited

[mkoo33]

Just now, Tangent-Valley said:

Looking forward to being able to step into Fissures now, and if I see an Ember NOT immediately forfeiting the idea of doing melee or getting any kills at all through-out the whole mission (Assuming I even get to see an Enemy that's not a cindered corpse yet). Her World-on-Fire is now "Think before you Press" 4 gameplay, instead of "4 and 4get", so I'm sure that alone will drive a good portion of her "Mains" away from her, much like with Ash's Target System rework and his "Mains". Still, it's not like she's Over, Worthless, Back on the Shelf or anything. She's the same ol' Hallway and Next Room Over killer, players will just have to turn things off for a moment before turning them right back on again and resuming their "98% Mission Kills" runs.

I'm trying to be polite, even though i can't understand why some people just don't use the common sense.

If you don't want to see the map on flames because of Ember, and you want to go full melee or have all the kills that you want.. excuse me, but GO SOLO and stop whining about not being able to have a single kill because of Ember.
People like you sir, are behind this nerfs. Messing with people investment and time put into building this warframes !

I do think that DE should have a public pool for debating on future changes. It's a free to play game, but some people invested real money here, and they just don't want to have it all down the drain overnight because of this kind of moronic complains.

Please excuse me if i'm a bit rough.. but this nerfs pissed me off !

[IDontKnowAName]

Do you people even want to play the game? Or is it just the want to feel stupidly overpowered against everything? Is it wrong for DE to balance the game the way they want? What is the point of having so much content, if only a very limited set of gear is going to be used? Personally, I feel like this will be a good change for the game. Might make you "press 4 to win" players think about trying a different Warframe for once.

[LOKIME]

I mean, yeah, sometimes I don't mind being carried when i just want to go afk and do something else while maxing my already  5 times formated weapon/frame... but sometimes I actually like to play the game, you know. I don't think Ember WoF needed a nerf, but I also think it needed some tweaks. Let's see how this turns out...

[DiabolusUrsus]

1 minute ago, LSG501 said:

You do realise that's likely to kill things as fast as possible right.....

You do realize you have as many as 3 other teammates who want to play too, right?

[paixdamien]

thank you i love the changes on ember and banshee. i hate passive/lazy gameplay

[MirageKnight]

1 minute ago, IDontKnowAName said:

Or is it just the want to feel stupidly overpowered against everything?

I think we already know the answer to that question, hence the sheer amount of salt.

[Dizdizdiz]

Watched your stream, and banshee doesnt look much different. I know when i go into a defense or interception have a range nuker is no fun for anyone. These changes just mean they are more powerful and still kill everything in sight, which means u have 3 people twiddling their thumbs. 

 

[Lostorage]

7 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Back in April 2017, extreme damage boosting was not really a problem, so we left the ability as is. However, the Plains of Eidolon update marked a shift in community mindset by introducing Teralysts - featuring multiple large health pools on each weakpoint, damage boosting abilities became an important part of efficient hunting teams. While other damage boosting options require more team coordination, a single self-damaging Chroma could bypass the weakpoint damaging portion of the fight in an instant. At its simplest, we do not want our Eidolons one-shotted.

LOL xD

[SordidDreams]

Just now, paixdamien said:

thank you i love the changes on ember and banshee. i hate passive/lazy gameplay

Then don't play that way? That seems like a simple enough solution to me that doesn't require ruining the game for people who do find that fun.

[xXHobbitXx]

going by topics title i think you have limited experience with ember and no actual clue to what people use ember for tbh :) have used ember for every content in game there is, ember can easily do all content available not just low level alert exterminates which any frame can walk through no effort needed, your title can be made to look like this "any frame with an ignis can achieve same thing as ember on an alert exterminate"

[IDontKnowAName]

Do any of you realize that the game is for fun right? The game is not about trying to go as fast as possible. When I run any mission, I hate seeing these "press 4 to win" Ember Primes running around killing everything just to get the mission over with. It seems people don't realize that there are three other members on the team wanting to play the game.

[Versa]

Looking at the zephyr changes detailed here, what im seeing looks rather good overall. 

Her 1 having divebomb as part of it should work well for me as long as it doesnt change the basic mechanical function of the ability. Ive grown quite accustomed to how her 1 works now and that being majorly changed would probably kill my playstyle with her as well as most of the fun I have with her. For me, the way her 1 works is probably the most central part of her kit for me, namely in how she moves which is what I center around. Either way, as long as the regular parts of the ability dont change, this is perfectly suitable. One potential issue here is if the divebomb part is TOO sensitive about when you are looking down and triggering when you wanted the regular air dash. The only other potential problem i have with the listed changes is that charge on ground effect. If this removes or replaces the current takeoff from ground effect with an instant cast and doesn't hover, this will SEVERELY impact how I bounce around by basically doing what is essentially B-hoping right as i land to preserve a small amount of momentum.

Her new 2 idea is both a good idea and slightly worrying. This new ability is a CC ability which is what I was hoping would be the case however; there are a few potential issues i see with it that I will not be able to be certain of until I actually get to use. First, it ragdolls for its effect. It should be no surprise that ragdolls, which throw things randomly and wildly are typically not considered particularly effective CC due to not being able to follow up on some of those enemies. As such, having the major effect being a ragdoll here could turn out very underwhelming by itself, potentially as only a sidegrade to the knockdown from divebomb. The other potentially concerning aspect is that the ability is a projectile, which im assuming here means travel time. If its not a very fast projectile it may turn out ineffective on larger open areas where Zephyr currently works best. it may not have to be as fast as the Lanka but should still be respectably fast as it seems to be an ability entirely based on its CC potential and not acting fast enough would place it behind so many other CC abilities in the game as the others that have a traveling projectile, tend to be far stronger effects like Bastille and Vortex. This new ability is going to entirely depend on how fast that effect will land at its target and how reliable the effect will be. I will hold any further judgement until i get my hands on it to have a better range of opinions to share.

Her 4s changes are exactly like what I was hoping would happen. They seem like they are going to be more reliable in cast, handling, and effect on the enemies which is all that could ever be hoped for without entirely discarding the ability. 

The reduced energy cost in midair can really only benefit zephyr and hopefully the effect will be non-marginal.

Overall, I am awaiting these changes that seem like they will mostly improve Zephyrs potential without ruining my playstyle with the actual in game effect of the new 2 being the thing that will determine how much more impact she will be able to bring beyond the still very appreciated QoL changes.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Kurayami_No_Yenshi

[Shiichibukai]

You dont even know how wrong you are. Every mission I run has at least ember just sitting their with WoF. No, its boring af and is ruining alot of ppls want to play, its not fun and its not helpful. Coming from a Vet, this isnt anything any person would want. Why are you even IN that squad then if all you do is watch basically, might aswell just solo everything.

[SnuggleBuckets]

I just posted this on that main topic but I'll quote it here incase you're interested in my twist on the ability:

4 minutes ago, SnuggleBuckets said:

I think Ember should instead always have had a Fire Proc priority and armor stripping with every new explosion, with a fire DoT effect being reliable but not immediately lethal (scaling with the more explosions stripping more armor over time).
This would allow utility in making enemies weaker to yourself and allies, having lots of enemies suffer fire procs in a wide radius to help you and allies in picking them off, and over time perhaps killing them if no one has gotten around to it yet.
No increasing energy cost, no increase in damage, no reduction in radius, just pure CC utility.

All the other changes sound great though! Thanks for all the hard work!

I had in mind something like keeping all of those radius and energy costs at the same level, but change damage dealing on two levels: First, enemies in range lose 1%/2%3%4% of their health every second, and each explosion hitting them does flat 25/50/75/100 (maybe less is more?) damage, While stripping 5%/10%/15%/20% of their base armor on each hit, with a 30%/45%/60%/75% status chance. I was thinking that status chance and armor stripping could definitely scale with power strength, and power duration could increase status duration, but maybe the damage% and damage hit per explosion should not scale with power strength, the % damage would still slowly ramp up though.
Just a thought I've had for a long time on how to make Ember fun and useful for herself and all allies.

[LSG501]

7 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

You do realize you have as many as 3 other teammates who want to play too, right?

not always... just look at the number of threads about people complaining about leeches etc...

Also hydron (and similar) is a place where people go for a specific reasons, focus, levelling etc so most people want it done quickly and efficiently not take all day. 

As has always been said, if you do or don't want a specific frame in your team you have recruit chat...public groups leave you at the mercy of the other players and it's not their fault if you don't like their way of playing. 

 

edit: and for comparison, I spent a lot of time at hydron during the xp booster weekend, I can't even remember seeing a single banshee or ember....

Oh and just to make it clear, I'm not saying ember wof is perfect but it is efficient in what players use it for which is clearing enemies quickly so we don't have to spend any longer than needed doing the 'boring' grind things. 

Edited February 3, 2018 by LSG501

[NinthAria]

From the sound of things, the plan is to have Tornado hold onto captured enemies better instead of throwing them about, which, combined with the other changes (firing into a tornado damages all enemies inside it; aiming causes tornadoes to move towards your reticle), stands to make it pretty good for both CC and damage. The whole thing sounds pretty good to me.

[(PSN)Cynicaid]

I haven't run a multiplayer mission in ages where there wasn't at least one Ember with WoF running at all times.

 

It is pretty boring, and kind of ruins the point of me toning my gear/playstyle down a bit so the new players can actually play.

[Xion]

6 minutes ago, CableRun said:

Would be nice if Tornados becomes good CC and Damage or really good in one of this fields. 

From what I can tell, they're increasing the Tornadoes' power by doing both. It looks like they're going to make it similar to Mag's Magnetize in the sense that it captures enemies and then any damage it absorbs will be applied to the enemies that were CC'd. Right now, all it does is fling enemies to the other side of the map and block your shots and it seems like they'll be fixing these issues soon.

[Enzyme_X]

I am not really happy :'(

Volt = mass control ( down )

Ember = wrong tips for nerf ... This one are just more powerful. You just need To check more time your energy level but it is not a problem.

Wrong way ...

Atlas = Ok ... Fun ... But ont really  " WwoowW "

Gara = Need more ...

Ash = Ok, so cool.

Mag = i dont understand all you say 

Zephyr = Ok, i need to see that ^_^

Chroma = Oh ... Heeuuu ... Ok

My opinion ... Leave Ember and Volt ... No rework needed.

( sorry for my bad english )

[UncaIroh]

Read through the first post... some questions and comments: 

Atlas:

Will rubble be affected by vacuum?

Gara:

Will breaking her 4th wall scale damage based on vitrified enemies as well? Can poking a vitrified enemy detonate everything too?

Mag:

needs a few more tweaks I think...

1.can we make the suction of magnetize scale with power str? Not to the point that it's basically vortex but enough to slow them down to get especially if they just pass through the edge of the bubble.

2. Mag makes and awful lot of those armor shards, maybe she can also have a bit more interaction with other powers? Like armor shards in range either provide a small flat increase in damage (like 10-30 damage per shard) or turn each shard into a bullet that shoots outward from where it is and whatever gets hit also gets damaged further? (I figure the second will take a lot more compute power though...)

Zephyr:

Can her Divebomb also interact with the 4 to "detonate" the tornados and deal 50/80/90% of remaining damage all at once? Wait, that sounds a bit too close to gara's 1 and mass vitrify interaction... still, it might be interesting.

Please let her 4 leave existing drops alone. It's one of the most annoying features of her 4.

Edited February 3, 2018 by UncaIroh
added gara comment.

[HarrodTasker]

Hopefully, if Ember gets some serious improvements in its 1-3 and possibly a more useful passive, Ember can survive this nerf.  Make a fire version of Hydroid's 1 and I'd call that a major step forward.  But without considering any potential love there, this makes Ember worse at her already-small niche.

The thing that really gets me is, wouldn't it be better if as time went on, the fire EXPANDED?  Maybe like an actual spreading fire, if it started out smaller and and at high damage and over time grew to its current damage and range, that'd be good.  Or you could have a stack-based effect patterned off of old-soundquake that expands both range and damage (you know, setting the whole world on fire?) with an upkeep that will eventually be too much to sustain (again, like how fire works).

[Hanayama_San]

is it just me or is an ability called "World on Fire" with now less then 20m range funny to someone else aswell ???

[Voidwielder]

Please do not nerf Chroma and no teammate buff. Chroma is a powerhouse solo type warframe and he should always be, don't take that value away from him. Don't nerf the damage output of vex armor just because some kid decided to use Chroma to one shot Teralyst and that's it, Chroma main player use him for more than that and the change will effect everything. And he is not a buffer, imagine a full team with that insane power, it would be overkill and "when everyone is super, noone is super" (you decided to nerf the dmg to balance this right). SO PLEASE, DON'T TOUCH HIS VEX ARMOR.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Voidwielder

[ChromaUmbra]

Does the vex armor nerf effect the armor part of vex armor too?  I understand why the damage got nerfed, but I really don't think Chroma's survivability needed a nerf considering the fact that he needs to take damage to even make use of vex armor.

[buddabopp]

for atlas rather than duration based armor have you all though about of an inaros style decay where every time hes hit his armor bonus lowers a bit it kinda sucks when your armor just completely drops due to duration falloff