Update 22.12.0: Weapons Changes Feedback Megathread

[YandereWaifu]

15 hours ago, N64Gamefreak said:

• I don't agree with Supra & Supra Vandal being crit weapons now, but the increase in status chance is fine.  Entropy Burst will need a buff, because now it barely increases status chance more than any of the 60% elemental + 60% status chance mods.
• Grinlok buff is great!  Despair and Twin Gremlins too.
• Please increase Snipetron's crit multiplier, or balance the crit chance & crit multiplier ratio: a 30% crit chance with only a 1.5x multiplier doesn't make much sense.  A small reload speed increase would be helpful too.  Maybe increase Snipetron's magazine size to 6, and Snipetron Vandal's magazine to 8?
• Could we get reload speed increases and/or larger magazines for Latron Wraith and Latron Prime?
• Secura Dual Cestra doesn't need to be a crit weapon, but a faster reload speed would be nice.

wait 16% crit makes it a crit weapon? thats only 40% cc with point strike, you can now get pretty close to 100% status chance with the supra vandal if anything its a hybrid gun with lots of status and decent crit

[SnuggleBuckets]

Added recoil while zoomed in with Arca Scisco intentional?

Edited February 12, 2018 by SnuggleBuckets

[Combustionsquirrel]

On 2/10/2018 at 12:25 PM, Messkoo said:

Castana/Talon :

The horizontal spread is bad, your main projectile go front of you, and the other always on your left, never in the right. And some time there are going  far away, the spread angle is to wide.

^This.

Also while I am happy about the changes, I am kinda frustrated with the long list of inaccuracies in the changes (stealth buffs/nerfs) and in what was stated as the original stats for some weapons (Zhuge for example). I do recognize that it is a LONG list and that there are bound to be mistakes, but they seem fairly easy to fix with the community pointing them out. I also realize that you guys were on a well deserved weekend, but please release these fixes asap.

[IgnisDraconis4316]

Dual Toxocyst

Can the duration be increased a few seconds. It feels really short....... Either that or I suck at headshots for it LOL

Still going through the weapons! So far so fabulous.

[KanganLogane]

I feel that the Boar Prime needs a larger ammo maximum, it seems to run out very fast for such a large clip. 120 for the Tigris is fine and lasts but for the Boar it runs out almost immediately forcing the player to take Carrier with them or an ammo mod

[Femuru]

you know i would of been ok if they dint want to raise the daikyu crit chance since atleast they finally worked on its charge time BUT im not ok wit it since they decreased the base damage still why yall gotta do this to me LOL

[Ezekeel666]

You broke the Hema. https://forums.warframe.com/topic/919797-hema-ammo-change-and-interaction-with-mag-capacity-and-ammo-mods/

[(PSN)JonathGariepy]

I know it's not related to the weapon changes, but please add an innate ammo mutation to the Kohm (à la Lenz)... or even better, give ammo pizza a percentage of max ammo back instead of a fixed amount (which would be WAY better design).

[xattuu]

is projectile shotgun status being calculated differently a bug or intentional? would like to know if its planned on being fixed thanks :]

[Kracken]

Mara detron have 32%of status... 

With 4 60%mods it should achive 108.8% status chance,  while in game its 98.1%?! (even counting multishot)  Pls fix. 

Edited February 13, 2018 by Kracken

[ClockworkArc]

My two cents on the Dual Toxocyst changes.

I just want to preface this in saying that I'm a fan of both the Knell and the old Dual Toxocysts for different reasons. They are weapons that reward accurate play by letting you button mash all enemies into dust. Its a silly mechanic but it feels great. 

The Knell works because it's buff has decay. You can build up charges which eventually allows you to have space between some shots while trying to line up headshots. It works because while you have to build up the buff, you can have space between shots once you've got it going. I think it builds up in 3 second intervals?

The old Dual Toxocyst was fine really. It was a flat 6 second buff and while I'm sure most people tried using this weapon by landing constant headshots...I didn't. I basically used the Frenzy buff as an excuse to go ham on the rest of the room. Obviously, this felt a little clunky when the buff ran out though. As Harrow, I'd often leave one or more enemies that had been cc'd alone so I could reapply the buff as soon as it ran out. 

The way Dual Toxocysts works now allows you to refresh the buff for two seconds on every headshots. It ONLY refreshes the buff and doesn't add time to the buff. This puts the weapon at odds with itself. Since in order to maintain the buff in the two second window you have to use accurate play but it order to use the buff you have to forgo accuracy in a tiny window or be constantly shooting cc'd enemies. Personally, I don't see a strong use case for a weapon that lets you kill cc'd enemies faster as a special mechanic...

I would like to suggest a couple things. 

A) Allow subsequent headshots to add time to the buff rather than refresh the initial timer.

B) Keep the mechanic the same as it currently is but increase the buff timer to 4 or even 5 seconds. 

This use case of weapons like Knell and Dual Toxocysts isn't for CONSTANT highly accurate gunplay. Its for lining up headshots WHILE mowing down a room full of people. Headshots take some time to get line up and the two-three second buff the Dual Toxocysts currently gives doesn't allow sufficient time to do either of the things you want to do with it.

As another suggestion I would like it if the toxin damage buff mixed with any other single elements on the weapon to allow two dual elemental posion effects on the weapon...but I would understand if you didn't do that.

[Messkoo]

Il y a 11 heures, xattuu a dit :

is projectile shotgun status being calculated differently a bug or intentional? would like to know if its planned on being fixed thanks :]

 

Il y a 7 heures, Kracken a dit :

Mara detron have 32%of status... 

With 4 60%mods it should achive 108.8% status chance,  while in game its 98.1%?! (not even counting multishot)  Pls fix. 

I think it's because status is calculated with all projectil shoot at the same time, like multishot. Shotgun shoot many pellets per shot, the status chance of each pellet is lower than the status indicated (like multishot "increase" status chance with other weapon). For mara detron you have 7 pellets, each one have  X% status chance, and all 7 give 32% chance to proc status effect. And mods with +x% status effect apply to each pellet, not the sum of them so they have a low status chance and event with multiple pellets there is always a little chance to not proc status effect.

I'm not enouth good in english and mathematic too explain more sry.

 

Edit : for exemple, take tysis with 50% base status chance, put all multishot you have (riven if needed), tysis will never reach 100% because  each bullet have 50% status effect, and you can roll all bullet to not proc.

then just put 2  60% status chance mod without multi shot and you reach 100% status, because the base bullet reach 100%. and all your multishot have 100% too.

 

edit 2 :

il y a 8 minutes, Kracken a dit :

the only difference between detron and other shotguns that can get 100% is that detron is not a hitscan weapon. aside that the principals for calculating status chances should be the same.
its all here http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Status_Effect

I have look, and your are right, this is not the same for the other shotguns (drakoon is maybe  affected too, but hard to say hist base status chance is too low)

Edited February 13, 2018 by Messkoo

[Kracken]

2 minutes ago, Messkoo said:

 

I think it's because status is calculated with all projectil shoot at the same time, like multishot. Shotgun shoot many pellets per shot, the status chance of each pellet is lower than the status indicated (like multishot "increase" status chance with other weapon). For mara detron you have 7 pellets, each one have  X% status chance, and all 7 give 32% chance to proc status effect. And mods with +x% status effect apply to each pellet, not the sum of them so they have a low status chance and event with multiple pellets there is always a little chance to not proc status effect.

I'm not enouth good in english and mathematic too explain more sry.

 

the only difference between detron and other shotguns that can get 100% is that detron is not a hitscan weapon. aside that the principals for calculating status chances should be the same.
its all here http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Status_Effect

[DarcnyssWolfe]

12 minutes ago, Kracken said:

the only difference between detron and other shotguns that can get 100% is that detron is not a hitscan weapon. aside that the principals for calculating status chances should be the same.
its all here http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Status_Effect

Iirc, the issue is status mods affect the individual pellet/projectile status chance (32÷7=4.6% rounded in mara case) rather than the status as a whole like hitscan shotguns. Its all over the first page if anyone cared to read.

[xattuu]

4 hours ago, Messkoo said:

 

I think it's because status is calculated with all projectil shoot at the same time, like multishot. Shotgun shoot many pellets per shot, the status chance of each pellet is lower than the status indicated (like multishot "increase" status chance with other weapon). For mara detron you have 7 pellets, each one have  X% status chance, and all 7 give 32% chance to proc status effect. And mods with +x% status effect apply to each pellet, not the sum of them so they have a low status chance and event with multiple pellets there is always a little chance to not proc status effect.

I'm not enouth good in english and mathematic too explain more sry.

 

Edit : for exemple, take tysis with 50% base status chance, put all multishot you have (riven if needed), tysis will never reach 100% because  each bullet have 50% status effect, and you can roll all bullet to not proc.

then just put 2  60% status chance mod without multi shot and you reach 100% status, because the base bullet reach 100%. and all your multishot have 100% too.

 

edit 2 :

I have look, and your are right, this is not the same for the other shotguns (drakoon is maybe  affected too, but hard to say hist base status chance is too low)

i understand why, i just want to know if its supposed to be like that or not.  cuz i dont think de has said anything one way or the other

[exturkconner]

1 hour ago, xattuu said:

i understand why, i just want to know if its supposed to be like that or not.  cuz i dont think de has said anything one way or the other

I don't believe it's intentional it's something wrong with the math in the formula. I mean in the past it wasn't an issue because the only projectile based shotguns that could do 100% status were all single shots. Astilla, Plasmor. The Detron series now being able to do it shows a distinct flaw in the underlying formula. No way the math shouldn't work the same. There is some sort of calculation bug that probably has always been in play which means all these years Detron series has been operating with less status chance than it should get. No one noticed likely because if it not being able to achieve 100%. But yeah this weapon right now should be a monster and instead it's just very good.

32 status means a single dual status mod should bring it to 51.2 32 x 60% = 19.2. 19.2 + 32 = 51.2. Instead it's coming out to 46.6 this would be the dual status mod being at 52% instead of 60%. Doesn't work that way for any other weapons. Sure status chance gets split up among pellets but that's your status chance divided into your pellet count it should not have effect on the base status chance.

One of the Cerno's prime seems to have the same math issue. It got a status bump and should be able to get to 100% but it doesn't get even close either now. So something is wrong with the formula of projectile based weapons that fire multiple rounds at once.

They've had similar issues lately with other weapons. Like Quartakk and Akjagara both needing to be turned into "burst" weapons so status is properly calculated. 

Edited February 13, 2018 by exturkconner

[greaterthanthree]

On 2/9/2018 at 5:45 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

AkJagara
Mastery Rank increased from 3 to 8
Converted to burst fire that fires two rounds simultaneously
Status chance increased from 20% to 28%
Critical chance increased from 5% to 6%
Mag size increased from 24 to 36

Very nice buff to the AkJagara, but now that each shot consumes 2 ammo the mag size is too small for the slowish reload of the weapon. Could we see a small increase to the reload speed, to have more time shooting than reloading?

[(XBOX)mr Luigibro]

Thank you so much for taking a second look at the Pandero, that was the first gun I saw that gave me an incentive in this game, that I EVER put any formas into when I was just a MR 7, and the first weapon I ever bought primed mods for. Even though I didn't complain about the changes, I'm still happy that it didn't get hit as hard as it was going to. 

[Leqesai]

On 2/13/2018 at 7:45 AM, DarcnyssWolfe said:

Iirc, the issue is status mods affect the individual pellet/projectile status chance (32÷7=4.6% rounded in mara case) rather than the status as a whole like hitscan shotguns. Its all over the first page if anyone cared to read.

Hopefully DE has taken note.

 

Why non-hitscan calculations are different boggles my mind. it doesn't make any sense because the weapons are, near as I can tell, functionally the same. The only differences is (or should be) how fast the projectiles move.

 

 

[Azamagon]

The accuracy of Twin Vipers and Twin Vipers Wraith must be unintentionally swapped, right?

Let's look at all the variants:

Viper -> 15,4
Viper Wraith -> 28,6

Twin Vipers -> 15,4
Twin Vipers Wraith -> 11,1

Due to this unintentional swap, the regular Twin Vipers are right now just as accurate as the regular single Viper, which really doesn't seem right.

[AbaddonKrk]

Secura Penta is currently bugged, When you use tether granades agument it reverts to old stats 10% crit and status. While you are in Orbiter stats are correct.  When you jump in to mission or better Simulacrum, stats are going down when equping tether grandes, pls fix https://imgur.com/ndtagkW  https://imgur.com/a/aSx8E

Edited February 15, 2018 by AbaddonKrk

[kazenioware]

While it was a good change after all, personally i'd like optional spreadsheets respectively sorting options.

Since i surpassed MR15 a while ago, i really don't care about MR-changes anymore.

Maybe sorted according alpabet (only):

RIFLES

Attica              Critical damage increased from 2x to 3x    
                       Damage decreased from 125 to 80

Baza               Critical damage increased from 2.8x to 3x

Boltor              Status chance increased from 10% to 14%
                       Critical chance increased from 5% to 10%
                       Critical damage increased from 1.5x to 1.8x

Boltor Prime    Status chance increased from 10% to 32%
                        Critical chance increased from 5% to 12%
                        Damage decreased from 55 to 46

Braton             Damage increased from 20 to 24
                        Status chance increased from 5% to 6%
                        Critical chance increased from 10% to 12%

Braton Prime   Status chance increased from 20% to 26%
                        Critical chance increased from 10% to 12%
                        Ammo capacity increased to 600

Braton Vandal  Status chance increased from 10% to 16%
                        Critical chance increased from 10% to 16%
                        Ammo capacity increased to 550

Burston            Status Chance increased from 10% to 18%
                        Critical chance increased from 5% to 6%
                        Critical damage increased from 1.5x to 1.6x

Burston Prime  Status chance increased from 15% to 30%
                        Critical chance increased from 5% to 18%
                        Critical damage increased from 1.5x to 1.8x
                        Damage decreased from 39 to 36

Buzlok              Increased projectile speed for primary and secondary fire
                        Decreased recoil while aiming

... (have the whole list, but the editor doesn't accept gaps made by tab, so...)

 

[theEota]

This update has done nothing but sour me on the game. I've spent the last week finding out all the weapons I wanted and were saving up to make/buy for have now been mastery locked several more MR higher than I am, making it a further grind to finish or use the weapons. I don't want to grind to get the weapons I wanted to grind with, what a waste of time. 

[Colyeses]

I used to really like the Toxocysts, but this patch has really hurt them. 

The Toxocysts' baseline performance is pretty horrible, with mediocre damage, low fire-rate and enormous recoil, making it a very difficult to use gun in comparison to a lot of others who improve massively upon most of that. The strength is, of course, that it gets all of these issues fixed upon getting a headshot. The refresh on headshot thing was long overdue, but the coupled nerf of the duration has rendered the weapon -extremely- frustrating to use. Rather than getting a headshot and then enjoying six seconds of seriously powerful secondaries, now you're spending three seconds frantically chasing down headshots.

It feels like the effort input has doubled, but the output hasn't increased at all. Something much more simplistic like the Staticor will get much better results without any effort. 

Please put the duration back to six seconds. Give your players room to breathe with this effect.

 

Additionally, please put that Daikyu crit buff back on the table. As the slowest bow, it should pack the greatest punch, but without solid crit chance, it's going to be -very- hard pressed to make a difference in comparison to most other bows.

[TheSunless]

Re: The AkJagara.  

I've been playing with them for several hours now, and I have a few issues related to the rework.

1: The hyper-satisfying POP firing sound has been changed to a less impactful pPop, which I feel reduces its audiovisual impact.  Perhaps the burst is not simultaneous, and is actually separated by a single frame?

2: Similarly, all the recoil is gone.  Some recoil would be nice to keep that feeling of power.  I would rather have that back (perhaps with a damage buff to compensate for the increased difficulty?)

3: Speaking of recoil, something is seriously wrong with the recoil pattern.  There's a lot of horizontal spread, and nearly zero vertical.  This mostly manifests at higher fire-rates.  Put on a Gunslinger and ScrollWheel-Fire or just click really fast to see what I mean.  It ends up looking like: .... ..:. .:..:... . ..

 

On a final note, I really hope you keep/make some weapons (like the Secura Dual Cestra!) that are simply hard to control.  Up their power, so players can either compensate with the -recoil mods/Rivens, or learn to control them and enjoy the power spike.