Ember is the new Mag, and Mag is the new Ember (or even better)

[Valgaarv]

Mag changes are awesome, finally she can do a decent amount of damage, survive and keep her energy to stay in long misions, i hope her upgrades stay for a long time.

Sadly on the other hand we have Ember... now she is useless. The nerf to WoF it´s too big and she get nothing in return, Firequake was her main tool to keep her alive, but with this major nerf to WoF range she is forced to spam her 2 to stay alive, making her as hunger as valkire hysteria but still squishy as paper.

Maybe WoF should keep it´s original range, or it´s original energy cost, so we have some free mod slots to make her a bit more tanky (just a litle bit)

That extra 100% damage it´s meaninless if she can´t stay alive.

Edited February 11, 2018 by Valgaarv

[GenericPotato]

In a nutshell, her rework is not thought out and playtested before launching to the players.

[(XBOX)AntiCaesar]

Just now, GenericPotato said:

In a nutshell, her rework is not thought out and playtested before launching to the players.

Not to hijack this thread but that applies to a few other frames too.

[BansheePrime]

1 minute ago, GenericPotato said:

In a nutshell, her rework is not thought out and playtested before launching to the players.

Or players are just incapable of realising other abilities exist. like accelerant which lets you stun everything, make it vulnerable to heat and with flash accelerant give your gear heat and suddenly everything is dead and you're still alive.

[Sorenxoras]

Joy of joys. she can go from level 30 missions to level 35 missions. what a flipping improvement. No, her knockdown CC was her greatest defense, and now that's been screwed. The DO remember that the longer a missions goes the more energy leeches and nullifies show up right?

[Lokime]

1 minute ago, BansheePrime said:

Or players are just incapable of realising other abilities exist. like accelerant which lets you stun everything, make it vulnerable to heat and with flash accelerant give your gear heat and suddenly everything is dead and you're still alive.

Playerbase is used to press 4 to win.

[Valgaarv]

il y a 18 minutes, BansheePrime a dit :

Or players are just incapable of realising other abilities exist. like accelerant which lets you stun everything, make it vulnerable to heat and with flash accelerant give your gear heat and suddenly everything is dead and you're still alive.

I already mentioned accelerant, now you have to spam it, so your energy consumption is way higher for what you get in return, and if a nullifier shows up you die instantly

 

il y a 15 minutes, Lokime a dit :

Playerbase is used to press 4 to win.

Since DE nerfed WoF to be afected by enemies armor Ember was a non-press 4 to win unless you are doing low level missions, where all warframes are press one button to win.

Edited February 11, 2018 by Valgaarv

[Cephalon_Ordis]

Is it too much to ask to have tank ember back--

[(XBOX)Ahuvi]

WoF also has a limit of affecting 5 targets at a time only, which is why I never ran overextended in her, but now if I don’t run overextended I’m in negative ranges. It’s personal space on Fire now.

[robbybe01234]

47 minutes ago, BansheePrime said:

Or players are just incapable of realising other abilities exist. like accelerant which lets you stun everything, make it vulnerable to heat and with flash accelerant give your gear heat and suddenly everything is dead and you're still alive.

Nah.  The op did mention spamming accel.  And people have eyes, they do see that Fireblast and Fireball exist.  However, they also see that in actual combat, Fireblast or fireball don't get you out of a bad situation or prevent getting swarmed.  They also don't allow you to maintain control of encounters.  This goes double now that WoF has range decay.  This generally brings all encounters closer to the frame and shines light on how ineffectual 1,3 are when you put weight on them. 

[Sajochi]

Ok, let's get one thing straight. Mag only needed some tweaks and she got them.  She was never useless after the polarize and magnetize change, the playerbase was repeating a meme and treating it as truth.  Ember is no different, additional tweaks needed in the right direction to bring out her kit. Keeping the damage increase over time and efficiency decrease was enough. The current change didn't solve what it was supposed to solve so might as well dial back halfway until ember can get a proper tuning. 

Bringing up an argument like "ember is the new mag" doesn't help things. It isn't constructive. 

[robbybe01234]

1 minute ago, Sajochi said:

Ok, let's get one thing straight. Mag only needed some tweaks and she got them.  She was never useless after the polarize and magnetize change, the playerbase was repeating a meme and treating it as truth.  Ember is no different, additional tweaks needed in the right direction to bring out her kit. Keeping the damage increase over time and efficiency decrease was enough. The current change didn't solve what it was supposed to solve so might as well dial back halfway until ember can get a proper tuning. 

Bringing up an argument like "ember is the new mag" doesn't help things. It isn't constructive. 

Haha yes perhaps, but I do see the same "incomplete package" that I saw with Mag after the first rework.  I see Ember as a close quarters dps but has no method of dealing with a greater concentration of enemies and incoming fire.  I saw Mag as a combo caster without the energy pool to support combo casting.  But like you wrote, tweaks here and there can make a world of difference.  I was impressed enough with the mag change that I easily scooped up the deluxe skin. :)

[Lokime]

1 hour ago, Valgaarv said:

I already mentioned accelerant, now you have to spam it, so your energy consumption is way higher for what you get in return, and if a nullifier shows up you die instantly

 

Since DE nerfed WoF to be afected by enemies armor Ember was a non-press 4 to win unless you are doing low level missions, where all warframes are press one button to win.

A decent Ember build could walk through all the star chart without trouble. Just press 4 once, walk from start to finish. Does that sounds balanced to you? This kind of abilities needs SOME kind of drawbacks to be balanced and not abused.

[Valgaarv]

il y a 1 minute, Lokime a dit :

A decent Ember build could walk through all the star chart without trouble. Just press 4 once, walk from start to finish. Does that sounds balanced to you? This kind of abilities needs SOME kind of drawbacks to be balanced and not abused.

Sadly any warframe can walk though all the star chart without trouble using cheap builds, veterans are concerned on the end game like sorties or endless long missions where we find the fun of the game. In any video game, a high level character with a decent build should be aviable to blow up all the low content that you are talking, if a new player feels that a full builded character is op because it can evaporate 1000 lv one units with a single button, he should try playing solo or with other low level players, the only "abuse" of ember was to do low level content faster to farm.

[Fallen_Echo]

The best rework wof could got was if they change the ability to deal X% of the targets current health +50, all unaffected by armor. That way unless you are playing extremely low levels wof cant kill anything directly but scales infinitetly

 

[Valgaarv]

This remembers me when i was a WoW player and used my priest to farm cloth in Dead Mines spamming holy nova, it was an unbalanced skill to do any low content mission but completely useless for end game, and nobody was asking for a nerf "because im new in this game and he is killing everithing alone"

[Hypernaut1]

The forums needs to take its xanax!

[Kayll]

2 hours ago, Valgaarv said:

This remembers me when i was a WoW player and used my priest to farm cloth in Dead Mines spamming holy nova, it was an unbalanced skill to do any low content mission but completely useless for end game, and nobody was asking for a nerf "because im new in this game and he is killing everithing alone"

Who would ever farm Deadmines cloth in a group?

Not really a good comparison, I say it'd be like joining a group starting a dungeon using the LFG tool, and before you load in the tank has cleared half the instance.

[(XBOX)DevilishSix]

3 hours ago, Lokime said:

A decent Ember build could walk through all the star chart without trouble. Just press 4 once, walk from start to finish. Does that sounds balanced to you? This kind of abilities needs SOME kind of drawbacks to be balanced and not abused.

No offense but that is just silly talk.  Going thru the star chart is low level my friend, you think Ember would be balanced by struggling with the star chart?  Gee weez all the frames, when built properly, should be able to breeze thru the star chart.  It's the higher end content people are discussing here.

[Lemon]

Embers new damage boost allows her to kill a lvl 120 gunner in 1 second once the armor is stripped with WoF alone.

I still have not fully perfected my build + weapon combo, but she is borderline self sufficient.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

Shouldn't throw shade at another frame.

DE is way way more likely to nerf Mag due to this than to buff Ember.

[Threa]

7 hours ago, Valgaarv said:

That extra 100% damage it´s meaninless if she can´t stay alive.

1

1

This is my biggest issue with the change so far. Using her 2 isn't enough, she needs some sort of damage mitigation.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Threa

[Valgaarv]

il y a 29 minutes, OoKeNnEtHoO a dit :

Shouldn't throw shade at another frame.

DE is way way more likely to nerf Mag due to this than to buff Ember.

My bad D:

[(XBOX)Slimm qp ReapeR]

Ember was only fun for me when I first got like before trinity prime came out back in 2015 but her kit is just so boring to me. Even when they changed her WoF to energy drain. It has nothing to do with proper play with her as I know how to but she’s just so boring to me. I think she needs a full rework. Maybe if they go a route similar to saryns spores?.. idk  she just needs something new 

[Funcooker]

8 hours ago, Lokime said:

A decent Ember build could walk through all the star chart without trouble. Just press 4 once, walk from start to finish. Does that sounds balanced to you? This kind of abilities needs SOME kind of drawbacks to be balanced and not abused.

A decent anything can clear the star chart without any trouble, its a joke.