Can I please have a refund?

[Bobmcq11]

Just a quick expression of frustration. I watched some YouTube videos of the beam weapon changes yesterday morning, and then proceeded to put four forma in my Ignis Wraith, bought a Synoid Gammacor, leveled it and put four forma into it as well. Just as I was finishing, I see “hotfix inbound” in my chat box, and I started to get a sinking feeling. I logged out and then back in to find both weapons feeling a lot less like they did about 2 minutes prior.

I know it isn’t really possible to get my forma back, but maybe DE could reverse the changes instead? Probably just dreaming here but I was having all kinds of fun and now I feel like the time and platinum investment went straight down the drain. I didn’t even get a chance to take these into a softie before they were nerfed!

-Bob

[-VS-Airikr]

should have checked the forum - the beam weapon change has been posted a few days before.

[NullSaint]

7 minutes ago, Bobmcq11 said:

Just a quick expression of frustration. I watched some YouTube videos of the beam weapon changes yesterday morning, and then proceeded to put four forma in my Ignis Wraith, bought a Synoid Gammacor, leveled it and put four forma into it as well. Just as I was finishing, I see “hotfix inbound” in my chat box, and I started to get a sinking feeling. I logged out and then back in to find both weapons feeling a lot less like they did about 2 minutes prior.

I know it isn’t really possible to get my forma back, but maybe DE could reverse the changes instead? Probably just dreaming here but I was having all kinds of fun and now I feel like the time and platinum investment went straight down the drain. I didn’t even get a chance to take these into a softie before they were nerfed!

-Bob

This is a joke, right?

[krc473]

10 minutes ago, Bobmcq11 said:

I didn’t even get a chance to take these into a softie before they were nerfed

Neither were really nerfed.

One of the universal beam changes was not working as intended. So it got fixed.

The increase in ramp time seems unnecessary though. Not sure how much difference it makes though.

 

I have been playing with Synoid Gammacor, it seems fine. Quite a fun little toy. It’s ammo efficiency has improved, which is nice.

 

All changes often get reviewed within a week of release. If you spend plats on stuff reliant on the first iteration, that’s your own fault. DE won’t refund the plats. They won’t revert the fix. Just use it as a learning experience. (I.e. don’t do it again)

Edited February 23, 2018 by krc473
iPads cannot correct text!

[bad4youLT]

can some one explain me the "ramp up" system , I dont quit get it

[NinjaZeku]

15 minutes ago, Calumniis said:

should have checked the forum - the beam weapon change has been posted a few days before.

This is about the "ramp up per target" nonsense that now, in its "fixed" state,
means every time you switch targets or even slip off your current target for a nanosecond,
your damage drops down to 10% and needs a second of uninterrupted fire again to climb back to normal.

I trust DE to not leave it as-is, but in the mean time, this is a gut punch after the short-lived "woo beams" euphoria :(

[Ozent]

It used to be .8 seconds to ramp up from 10% to 100%, and it stayed ramped up as long as you fired. There was a decay after stopping and it would go back down to 10% after 1 second. NOW it takes 1 second to ramp up from 10 to 100% for EACH enemy. So if you switch targets, it has to ramp up again, and if you stop miss your initial target after ramping up on it, it has to ramp up again. It's a huge change, but that was the “intended” way it was supposed to be on release of th beam rework. However, it makes single target beams much much worse, compared to the ignis wraith, which wasn't affected too much.

5 minutes ago, bad4youLT said:

can some one explain me the "ramp up" system , I dont quit get it

 

14 minutes ago, krc473 said:

Neither were really nerfed.

One of the universal beam changes was not working as intended. So it got fixed.

The increase in ramp time seems unnecessary though. Not sure how much difference it makes though.

 

I have been playing with Synoid Gammacor, it seems fine. Quite a fun little toy. It’s ammo efficiency has improved, which is nice.

 

All changes often get reviewed within a week of release. If you spend plats on stuff reliant on the first iteration, that’s your own fault. DE won’t refund the plats. They won’t revert the fix. Just use it as a learning experience. (I.e. don’t do it again)

 

[SteamlordD]

It's funny that they called it a "fix" when it was explained in the original post and sounded nothing like what the finished result is. Another example of their policy of backpedaling and claiming something was a bug or an exploit. They like to blame the players rather than admitting mistakes.

[I3jionaa]

well it leaves some enemies for other 3 squad mates to kill now ^^ like i get it on starchart its effective to balance things, but mechanic should be completely removed after levels 60-70 allowing weapon to deal full damage instantly. Cause it seems like quite punishing once enemies are more dangerous.

[Walkampf]

vor 15 Minuten schrieb bad4youLT:

can some one explain me the "ramp up" system , I dont quit get it

Beam weapons deal only a little bit of damage at first and then, the longer you hold the beam onto the enemy, the damage will increase.

Imagin a stove. You put a kettle filled with cold water onto it. The water is not boiling isntantly, it takes a bit for the heat to build up.

[DoomFruit]

28 minutes ago, krc473 said:

Neither were really nerfed.

One of the universal beam changes was not working as intended. So it got fixed.

No, it is a nerf. Take as an example the dual stat puncture/fire rate mod for shotguns, way back when Damage 2.0 was first released. It, alone out of all the IPS mods, added puncture damage not as a proportion of the already existing puncture damage, but as a proportion of the base damage - meaning that it was actually useful on weapons. DE changed it to behave like the rest of the (useless) IPS mods - it was a nerf, the mod (Accelerated Blast, I think) became a waste of a mod slot, and it was quite within their intent.

Same as for sniper weapons about a year ago. They were massively underused, but got some nice stat buffs which could have brought them up to par with the other weapons. They were also hampered with two idiotic mechanics - an enormous bullet spread when used in hipfire, and scope sway when zoomed in. Neither mechanic was necessary (sniper weapons were never overpowered), neither mechanic made sense, and the addition of neither mechanic was justified. Both mechanics were huge nerfs to an already weak weapon collection, but also intended.

To the current topic of beam weapons. For years, they've been an utter joke because of their once per second tick rate on which damage or procs could be applied. This was made even worse because they took a point of ammo more than once per second. They weren't even worth considering for any serious arsenal. The patch hit, and suddenly they became valid choices. Not the absolute final items - I still find it hard to drop my sanctigris (<3 healblast) and aklex prime, but the top-end beam weapons became comparable to top-end bullet and projectile weapons. At that point, you (as a game designer) stop there. They're now comparable, the pool of viable weapons has just increased massively. What you do NOT do at this point is to throw a bunch of pointless disadvantages on to the weapons which are now comparable to the old top gear. You do that, and everyone just goes back to using the old stuff. Case in point: sniper weapons. How many of those do you see during gameplay?

The take-away point here is that intent can be just as broken as mechanics. The intent of beam weapons having this target switching cooldown is what needs to be fixed, not the fact that the stupid mechanic didn't go all out from the start.

 

EDIT:

2 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

Beam weapons deal only a little bit of damage at first and then, the longer you hold the beam onto the enemy, the damage will increase.

Imagin a stove. You put a kettle filled with cold water onto it. The water is not boiling isntantly, it takes a bit for the heat to build up.

The damage increasing is *already* taken into account with the increased tick rate. Hold the beam on the enemy longer, get more ticks, get more damage. Done. Your analogy only works if you're applying a broad slow heat to a large object. The action of a cutting laser or ion mill is linear with applied time - in fact, it gets slower as you continue to apply the beam to the same place because the material you've cut off will start to fill in the hole and block the beam.

Edited February 23, 2018 by DoomFruit

[TalesNexus]

37 minutes ago, Bobmcq11 said:

Just a quick expression of frustration. I watched some YouTube videos of the beam weapon changes yesterday morning, and then proceeded to put four forma in my Ignis Wraith, bought a Synoid Gammacor, leveled it and put four forma into it as well. Just as I was finishing, I see “hotfix inbound” in my chat box, and I started to get a sinking feeling. I logged out and then back in to find both weapons feeling a lot less like they did about 2 minutes prior.

I know it isn’t really possible to get my forma back, but maybe DE could reverse the changes instead? Probably just dreaming here but I was having all kinds of fun and now I feel like the time and platinum investment went straight down the drain. I didn’t even get a chance to take these into a softie before they were nerfed!

-Bob

[Recel]

1 minute ago, Walkampf said:

Beam weapons deal only a little bit of damage at first and then, the longer you hold the beam onto the enemy, the damage will increase.

Imagin a stove. You put a kettle filled with cold water onto it. The water is not boiling isntantly, it takes a bit for the heat to build up.

Also, imagine a kettle that turns rock cold if you take it off the stove for a fraction of a second, and you have to reheat it all over again.

Forgot to meaniton this part of it.

 

[Landario]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb NinjaZeku:

This is about the "ramp up per target" nonsense that now, in its "fixed" state,
means every time you switch targets or even slip off your current target for a nanosecond,
your damage drops down to 10% and needs a second of uninterrupted fire again to climb back to normal.

I trust DE to not leave it as-is, but in the mean time, this is a gut punch after the short-lived "woo beams" euphoria :(

and everyone cries out loud or the thousands of Plat spent on Rivens for Beam Weapons.

Those will be CHEAP now boys !

[Marine027]

Honestly i not like most changes they do lately but on the other hand people should learn by now most changes are never final, i mean, as soon the Update dropped, videos popped up with Amprex, Synapse, etc. raosting enemys like nothing with certain builds, people modded it to the max right away, even that i think they should look at each weapon at is own state and not nerf/fix/buff/debuff all at once with same mechanics, i can see why they do it if people rigth away build overpowered builds.

I am not suprised then if they change it, maximzing is not always the way maybe, as said, not like most changes lately, on the other hand again, people seem to overdo it at times with builds also, maximizing it ridiclous, so DE panics and nerf it in a ridicloius way also, both sides make mistakes.

I admit i defend them often but not on everything, but you need to consider they are human, making mistakes and simply can't consider every build combination considering the amount of mods, weapons, warframe combinations we have and the status effects, damge types, resitance stuff etc.

It is just to much to calculate at times and they not think of everytihng, panicing in the process which i can't understand honestly, they rush to much lately in my eyes, PoE as exampel perosnal opinion wise was unneeded, a waste of resoruces because simpel it wants to be another open world wannabe and we have enough of those honeslty and most of them are bad oepn world exampels sadly, including Warframe now.

But i respect them working hard as a small team they are, considering other publishers and developers with much bigger teams and resoruces make much worse things.

Edited February 23, 2018 by Marine027

[(XBOX)DevilishSix]

56 minutes ago, krc473 said:

Neither were really nerfed.

One of the universal beam changes was not working as intended. So it got fixed.

The increase in ramp time seems unnecessary though. Not sure how much difference it makes though.

 

I have been playing with Synoid Gammacor, it seems fine. Quite a fun little toy. It’s ammo efficiency has improved, which is nice.

 

All changes often get reviewed within a week of release. If you spend plats on stuff reliant on the first iteration, that’s your own fault. DE won’t refund the plats. They won’t revert the fix. Just use it as a learning experience. (I.e. don’t do it again)

Changes not working as intended is ALWAYS the bail the developer out excuse.  I am so tired of hearing that BS, in a game where people spend real money on stuff they want to just have it changed at a whim.  Is borderline stealing from a player and I am SOOOOO glad world governments are starting to look into publisher and developer unfair practices to consumers, because this idea of them policing themselves is NOT working and unfair to consumers most times.  Time for consumer protection laws in the gaming industry just like other industries.  Also don't apologize for their actions, it should be right when released for consumption the first time, if not refunds should be done when changed.

Edited February 23, 2018 by (XB1)DevilishSix

[Sloan441]

1 hour ago, Bobmcq11 said:

I know it isn’t really possible to get my forma back, but maybe DE could reverse the changes instead? Probably just dreaming here but I was having all kinds of fun and now I feel like the time and platinum investment went straight down the drain.

I feel like I shouldn't have to point things like this out, but then you see something like this. Frequently. 

Get your forma back. Why? They aren't what you'd call hard to get. Run a few fissure missions with relics that have forma as common. Problem fixed. Run some more so you actually have them on hand when needed. They're a renewable resource. They're meant to be used. I've put plenty of forma in things that didn't turn out so well. There's always more. Always. 

Time. It's a game; it's meant to pass the time. This shouldn't even have been mentioned as an issue. If your time is that important to you, you shouldn't be expending it on games. 

Platinum. P.T. Barnum lives. Why would anyone spend plat on things like this? To bypass the content you nominally play the game for? Plat is always tied to real money. You should be careful with it--unless it's gained by trading. That plat simply doesn't matter. You only spent the time getting it by, you know, playing the game. You have no investment past just playing the game--for entertainment. 

If the game no longer entertains you, it might be time to move on. 

[Volinus7]

Warframe newbie guide 

#1 Do not "invest" in Warframe, you will probably be sad when sunk cost fallacy hit you later on. 

 

Warframe miscellaneous guide 

#3 Everything in Warframe is its feature until labeled as a bug and get "fixed™" regardless of how long it persisted in WF. 

Edited February 23, 2018 by Volinus7

[Gremlin]

48 minutes ago, (Xbox One)DevilishSix said:

Changes not working as intended is ALWAYS the bail the developer out excuse.  I am so tired of hearing that BS, in a game where people spend real money on stuff they want to just have it changed at a whim.  Is borderline stealing from a player and I am SOOOOO glad world governments are starting to look into publisher and developer unfair practices to consumers, because this idea of them policing themselves is NOT working and unfair to consumers most times.  Time for consumer protection laws in the gaming industry just like other industries.  Also don't apologize for their actions, it should be right when released for consumption the first time, if not refunds should be done when changed.

I mean... Did you not see the original patch notes? They literally wrote how they meant to change them and the hot fix implemented the changes they wrote about a few days prior... You should read up on the stuff you're playing victim towards.

Bugs and mistakes happen, and the same can be said about them changing beams to the insanely strong stage they are at now... 'I bought this weapon to have a challenge and have fun, now it's an op powerhouse that makes the game trivial, refund or you're a criminal'. Works both ways with that crazy logic. The only thing being looked at is literal gambling on digital items with minors. Not because a beta is getting an update to revamp an old feature. 

[ThorienKELL]

You must be new here and very naive if you think that anything is permanent and guaranteed in this game. Everything you do it's your own risk and decision. I had rivens worth 5k plat evaporate overnight because of game mechanics change. And what now, should DE give up on introducing damage falloff? Change made sense and having a riven with 97% slower projectile travel time that affected it in no way didn't have any sense. 

I didn't even know of the change, I put my final few formas in quanta v. and glaxion and s. gammacor (they did have 4 formas from before) and usable rivens and they do kill like champs, all of them. 

[Wintyr]

You know they're going back to a previous un-nerfed version of beam weapons because they figured out the performance issue.  you weapon may actually be better after the patch

[Soulden]

After 3 years of putting so many Formas (some spent with plat), and ENJOYING the game, today I feel like I need a refund for something I already consumed.

If only irl worked that way.....we all be rich, or dead broke, if you consider our pay, our parents and their parents gets refunded to employers using that principle.

1 hour ago, NullSaint said:

This is a joke, right?

Pretty much.

[Draksyl]

15 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

Warframe miscellaneous guide 

#3 Everything in Warframe is its feature until labeled as a bug and get "fixed™" regardless of how long it persisted in WF. 

QFT.  Some of my clan mates issued a challenge last night after finding a few 'features' in the simulacrum:  How quickly can you kill a level 600 Juggernaut Behemoth?

Hint:  Less than 30 seconds solo with the right frames................................

And during the testing process we also found there was no real reason why some frames CC was able to affect the Juggernaut (albeit briefly), whilst it remained completely immune to other frames with similar CC effects.........................

[krc473]

2 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

Case in point: sniper weapons. How many of those do you see during gameplay?

Have you done Eidolons? Snipers are fairly popular for that.

2 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

The intent of beam weapons having this target switching cooldown is what needs to be fixed, not the fact that the stupid mechanic didn't go all out from the start.

My reply was considering the first rework had taken place. So it should have had the correct target switching thing in place. DE messed it up, so they fixed it. OP’s post is set between the rework and current patch, this was meant to be in. So it’s a fix, not a nerf regardless of whether it’s a good idea. If say, they reworked guns and you could only fire once per minute because they messed up fire rate, would them fixing it count as a buff? No, because it was implemented wrong. I don’t know, maybe DE should just say “hey, we implemented it, we do not care how it’s working, it will stay as is” so people stop complaining about stuff like this. “It should not have been done to start with” is not an excuse for not correcting things to how they should be (hey, maybe they will revert it?). I would like it reverted too, but I cannot consider it a nerf. Most of the beam weapons I have tried are better now than before.

[TARINunit9]

3 hours ago, (Xbox One)DevilishSix said:

Changes not working as intended is ALWAYS the bail the developer out excuse.  I am so tired of hearing that BS, in a game where people spend real money on stuff they want to just have it changed at a whim.  Is borderline stealing from a player and I am SOOOOO glad world governments are starting to look into publisher and developer unfair practices to consumers, because this idea of them policing themselves is NOT working and unfair to consumers most times.  Time for consumer protection laws in the gaming industry just like other industries.  Also don't apologize for their actions, it should be right when released for consumption the first time, if not refunds should be done when changed.

There is a world of a difference between DE trying to balance their game in really weird ways that the players don't like, and Destiny 2 and Loot Wars Buggyfront 2 trying to trick your kids out of thousands of dollars. You can stop conflating them now

That said the beam weapon rework should have coincided with another free forma pack for players, but we agree on that conclusion for completely different reasons