Kronen Prime Stats NEED A BUFF

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)Yes-Man-Kablaam said:

It has a unique prime look and better stats than Kronen. You were hoping for some OP powercreep when it was never promised.

We wanted (and some of us paid for) a Prime weapon.

What we got was a re-skin with less of an impact on stats than the Manticore and Brokk hammer skins.

There is a big difference.

[Sajochi]

I don't have the weapon yet but the stats could use more tweaking. I would be so bold as to ask to give it a custom charge attack to throw it like a big shuriken that acts like a slide attack as well, without the need of a stance. 

Then again, I want thrown melee expanded on in general but that's for a later thread. 

[ToKeSia]

At that time, Kronen with riven 5/5 still no one use it, after kronen prime came with little stats improved, the result is still the same, barely seen anyone use it like kogake prime.

Also, Tiberon Prime got 3 mode, but why kronen prime got none ?

Edited March 21, 2018 by ToKeSia

[Serafinia]

I am not a fan of this weapon family and barelay used them. The stats overall not seems bad the more speed and crit+status chances are nice the 1 plus damage is laughable but consider they does not want to make it more op and outperform the regular one which is nice and a lot of weapons could have be the same (I am looking at you aegis&silva+prime). I am not against slight changes the only thing is bothered me with kronen is the attack range and how hit targets. Sometimes was buggy and sometimes just could not hit a target with effectively. That fact this weapon is not stagging enemies make it worse weapon choice in my eyes and I prefer the swords and dual swords or staves-poles. 

I think they will rebalance some melee and hopefully the older ones will get some touch without sacrficicing something. Many weapons have a lot disadvantages and few positives and those weapons needs a clear buff others just needs better stat ratios.

The Tiberon prime also shows this because in some part it is stronger than the original Tiberon but not with a high gap like many primes did. The 3 fire mode is nice I personally wanted 2 for the regular one and still hoping it will get a semi auto mod sometime. 

In my book it is better to make not op weapons and later nerf them for balance because a lot of peoples buying it and then cry their toy nerfed badly. The bait and switch is not a nice thing in the industry and many peoples paid here money. Me just bought slots because I knew the game and how the items are sold.

[Ayumi14]

I feel the prime version of Kronen could have been given a bit more damage and range but overall not that bad. I still will farm items I am just not spending money on these items.

[Cleopatranikea]

I am honestly never bought any prime acces stuffs because these are not worth the 50+ dollars. It is a sad thing some bought it and got something for that money but they cannot make op weapons if they wish to balance the system. Once they make an op weapon in the few next month-year they will nerf it for the name of balance. Much better if they are in the beginning make a viable and better weapon but not op weapon. This is the case in these two weapons right now. Both Tiberon prime and Kronen prime better in comparison than the regular one but not miles better. 

It is still a fair thing.

[(PSN)lhbuch]

IMO a Prime weapon receives the title of PRIME because it is something better than regular meh other things. Not just gold details.

It doesnt mean that it has to be overpowered, but it needs something attractive to be called Prime. Or maybe the term prime in life in general is wrong and is only correct in warframe. 

The problem with Kronen is not that it is not powercreep, it is just plain boring, with rly minor upgrades on top of an already bad weapon. 

The special trait on tonfas are the slide attack dmg which has a butter knife range and is not affected by reach mods for a LONG time.

 

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

8 hours ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

Except that I could do that on the Ohma and get more out of it. Or even the Telos Boltace.

Primes are supposed to be as good as or better than existing weapons in their class. Otherwise there is no reason to get them.

They're really not supposed to. Also Telos Boltace has a gimmick a lot don't like and iirc Ohma are pure elemental.

Fashion is as good a reason as any. Half of the powercreep in this game isn't needed.

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

Am I missing something?  I just did a comparison in Warframe Builder, and the Kronen Prime outdamages the regular Kronen by a factor of about 2 to 1.  This is without using Organ Shatter and assuming full Berserker stacks and 2 status effects for CO.  Even with zero CO stacks, the Kronen Prime seems to be about 2x better.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

3 hours ago, (PS4)lhbuch said:

IMO a Prime weapon receives the title of PRIME because it is something better than regular meh other things. Not just gold details.

It doesnt mean that it has to be overpowered, but it needs something attractive to be called Prime. Or maybe the term prime in life in general is wrong and is only correct in warframe. 

The problem with Kronen is not that it is not powercreep, it is just plain boring, with rly minor upgrades on top of an already bad weapon. 

The special trait on tonfas are the slide attack dmg which has a butter knife range and is not affected by reach mods for a LONG time.

 

Exactly.

The only recent Prime Access I’m aware of that had both Prime weapons boasting a unique perk was Valkyr Prime Access with Cernos Prime and Venka Prime. Cernos Prime has a spread shot mechanic, Venka Prime has improved melee combo multiplier. After that, it’s been expected to see that Prime weapons either get a large stat boost from their original counterparts or getting a useful gimmick as a small trade-off: Hydroid Prime Access with Ballistica Prime’s ghost specters on kills and Nami Skyla Prime with its exceptional boost in stats, Mirage Prime Access with the exceptional boost in stats with AkBolto Prime and the movement speed boost with the Kogake Prime, Banshee Prime Access with the Euphona Prime synergetic primary and alt fires. Otherwise, it’s a release of Prime weapons that get exceptionally bolstered stats, like Oberon Prime Access with the Sybaris and Silva & Aegis Primes.

The Kronen Prime didn’t get that treatment, so I figured it has a hidden agenda on it as well. It doesn’t have a special perk. It doesn’t have exceptionally high bolstered stats compared to its base variant. And it falls flat when compared to the likes of the Ohma and Telos Boltace.

It needs a change.

Edited March 21, 2018 by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23

[MickThejaguar]

13 minutes ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

Am I missing something?  I just did a comparison in Warframe Builder, and the Kronen Prime outdamages the regular Kronen by a factor of about 2 to 1.  This is without using Organ Shatter and assuming full Berserker stacks and 2 status effects for CO.  Even with zero CO stacks, the Kronen Prime seems to be about 2x better.

The Kronen is a bad weapon. Being twice as good as a really bad weapon isn't much of a feat. With the recent Prime weapons people have come to expect Prime weapons to be dramatic increases in strength. The fact that this weapon released with a 5/5 riven disposition means DE knew it wasn't up to par with other prime weapons. That's why it's an MR 8 weapon. 

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

1 minute ago, MickThejaguar said:

The Kronen is a bad weapon. Being twice as good as a really bad weapon isn't much of a feat. With the recent Prime weapons people have come to expect Prime weapons to be dramatic increases in strength. The fact that this weapon released with a 5/5 riven disposition means DE knew it wasn't up to par with other prime weapons. That's why it's an MR 8 weapon. 

I agree that I don't find the Kronen to be particularly good.

Is it possible that it has a 5/5 disposition simply because that's the Kronen disposition (since virtually no one uses it) and they just didn't change it?  I may be mistaken on this, but didn't they adjust the Nami Skyla Prime disposition some time after it was initially released?  It's sorta moot though since DE have continually said they don't balance around rivens.

Still, some here are complaining that it's virtually no different to the regular Kronen, that it's barely an upgrade at all.  And, yeah, on paper it doesn't look that spectacular, but once you start putting on mods, the numbers indicate that it's about 2x better than the regular.  Now, I don't have it yet, so I haven't tried it myself, and I'm not a regular tonfa user, so I could be way off here.  If people were expecting the next OP weapon and this isn't it (it's not from what I can tell) then, I can see that I suppose.  But, it does seem to be an upgraded version of what we already had.

[Zeclem]

10 hours ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

Except that I could do that on the Ohma and get more out of it. Or even the Telos Boltace.

Primes are supposed to be as good as or better than existing weapons in their class. Otherwise there is no reason to get them.

its better than ohma for a condition overload build tho. like, a lot.

[MickThejaguar]

1 minute ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

I agree that I don't find the Kronen to be particularly good.

Is it possible that it has a 5/5 disposition simply because that's the Kronen disposition (since virtually no one uses it) and they just didn't change it?  I may be mistaken on this, but didn't they adjust the Nami Skyla Prime disposition some time after it was initially released?  It's sorta moot though since DE have continually said they don't balance around rivens.

Still, some here are complaining that it's virtually no different to the regular Kronen, that it's barely an upgrade at all.  And, yeah, on paper it doesn't look that spectacular, but once you start putting on mods, the numbers indicate that it's about 2x better than the regular.  Now, I don't have it yet, so I haven't tried it myself, and I'm not a regular tonfa user, so I could be way off here.  If people were expecting the next OP weapon and this isn't it (it's not from what I can tell) then, I can see that I suppose.  But, it does seem to be an upgraded version of what we already had.

If you have a penny and need a dollar to buy a snack, would you not be upset if someone instead gave you another penny? You would effectively have 2x as much money as you had before but ultimately it'd still be worthless. It's not just that Kronen Prime has barely any stat increase. They don't bring anything new to tonfas as a whole. Both the Ohma and Telos Boltace have higher status so the condition overload build that's being shoved down our throats is covered by both of those weapons. And it doesn't have a high enough crit chance to be viable as pure crit weapon. At best it's a crit/status hybrid and even then the Ohma has higher crit as well. The literal only things this weapon has over the Ohma is attack speed and slash damage. Imagine if the Nikana Prime released with slightly better stats than the Nikana while still being weaker than the Dragon Nikana. Or if the Venka Prime were worst than the Ripkas. The response would've been exactly the same as right now.

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

9 minutes ago, MickThejaguar said:

If you have a penny and need a dollar to buy a snack, would you not be upset if someone instead gave you another penny? You would effectively have 2x as much money as you had before but ultimately it'd still be worthless. It's not just that Kronen Prime has barely any stat increase. They don't bring anything new to tonfas as a whole. Both the Ohma and Telos Boltace have higher status so the condition overload build that's being shoved down our throats is covered by both of those weapons. And it doesn't have a high enough crit chance to be viable as pure crit weapon. At best it's a crit/status hybrid and even then the Ohma has higher crit as well. The literal only things this weapon has over the Ohma is attack speed and slash damage. Imagine if the Nikana Prime released with slightly better stats than the Nikana while still being weaker than the Dragon Nikana. Or if the Venka Prime were worst than the Ripkas. The response would've been exactly the same as right now.

I think I get where you are coming from at least.

Kronen Prime < Ohma.  So, it's not that it's better than the Kronen, it's that it's not better than regular weapons in its class that are non-primed - not even a sidegrade.  And, I can understand that.  I guess my response is more catered to the people who are claiming that it's barely better than the regular Kronen.

[cookieknife]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

I think I get where you are coming from at least.

Kronen Prime < Ohma.  So, it's not that it's better than the Kronen, it's that it's not better than regular weapons in its class that are non-primed - not even a sidegrade.  And, I can understand that.  I guess my response is more catered to the people who are claiming that it's barely better than the regular Kronen.

Because it clearly is barely better lol. It’s viability being a crit weapon is non existent without a riven and even with one you’re going to need about 3x mult to get consistent 

[cookieknife]

10 hours ago, (PS4)Yes-Man-Kablaam said:

It has a unique prime look and better stats than Kronen. You were hoping for some OP powercreep when it was never promised.

No we were hoping for a weapon that is a clear direct upgrade to the original.

months from now when there’s new primes and say a new player picks up kronen. Toys around with it , can’t really get good damage out of it, finds out there’s a prime and sees 4% more status 1 more damage , they’re not going to pick it up

 

kronen already has no redeeming factor other than slash damage and a passable status chance 

 

kronen Prime on the other hand has the same problem 

 

 

If DE knew any better they wouldn’t make weapons that are clearly not worth it to use

and The release of kronen Prime shows that. As well as kogake prime and it’s attack speed coupled with slow stances 

Edited March 21, 2018 by cookieknife

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

2 minutes ago, cookieknife said:

Because it clearly is barely better lol. It’s viability being a crit weapon is non existent without a riven and even with one you’re going to need about 3x mult to get consistent 

I put identical builds on Warframe Builder and it was almost 2x better in most cases.  That's hardly "barely better."  Am I doing something wrong?

[MickThejaguar]

1 minute ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

I think I get where you are coming from at least.

Kronen Prime < Ohma.  So, it's not that it's better than the Kronen, it's that it's not better than regular weapons in its class that are non-primed - not even a sidegrade.  And, I can understand that.  I guess my response is more catered to the people who are claiming that it's barely better than the regular Kronen.

Well kinda. It's not just that it isn't better, it's not even different. If they had geared it more towards crit instead of just making it another status tonfa, I'd be more than satisfied. We already have good status tonfas so making this one a status tonfa as well isn't adding anything new to the class. And on top of being a status tonfa, it isn't even better than the status tonfas we already have. Look at the Kogake Prime for example. It's not a monster, game breaking powerhouse of a weapon like the Galatine Prime but it's different from the rest of it's class because it's status based instead of crit based. Prime weapons should always do one of two things. Either be top tier in it's class (not necessarily always the best but at least a contender) or be unique enough that it stands out from the rest.

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

57 minutes ago, MickThejaguar said:

Well kinda. It's not just that it isn't better, it's not even different. If they had geared it more towards crit instead of just making it another status tonfa, I'd be more than satisfied. We already have good status tonfas so making this one a status tonfa as well isn't adding anything new to the class. And on top of being a status tonfa, it isn't even better than the status tonfas we already have. Look at the Kogake Prime for example. It's not a monster, game breaking powerhouse of a weapon like the Galatine Prime but it's different from the rest of it's class because it's status based instead of crit based. Prime weapons should always do one of two things. Either be top tier in it's class (not necessarily always the best but at least a contender) or be unique enough that it stands out from the rest.

This I can understand.  I was looking at the tonfa comparison table in the wiki, and certainly the Kronen Prime is the worst of the MR 8 tonfas.

[Xaxma]

I personally don't consider Tonfas to be melee weapons designed for anything else but quickly dispatching stray enemies while you're predominately using primary/secondary weapons. When you stack it up against something like the Galatine Prime or the Venka Prime, sure, it's definitely not going to compete in the department of raw strength, but that's just looking at it the wrong way.

Tonfas generally have the absolute strongest slide attack multipliers in the game, and with the added .5x crit multiplier, the Kronen Prime is a very good candidate for building Maiming Strike + Critical Damage + Elementals. Other weapons have to build up considerable melee multiplier in order to get the kind of damage Tonfas can get by default with a single attack, which makes it better on-the-fly since the Kronen Prime is also very fast. It's just a playstyle.

As far as what makes the Kronen Prime different than other tonfa-type weapons, then yeah, I'm a little disappointed that DE didn't do anything unique with the Kronen other than make it a tad bit better at doing what it's meant to be doing. Tonfas are spin-to-win done right, unlike coughAtteraxcough ...

Edited March 21, 2018 by Xaxma

[o.0-]

K^TM

[BaIthazar]

I enjoyed and thought the base Kronen was pretty good, so I assume I will like the Kronen Prime even more

[cookieknife]

Kronen Prime was released with Zephyr Prime and Tiberon Prime on March 20th, and since then Tiberon Prime stole the show immediately.

Kronen Prime had the misfortune of getting the stat tweaks that it did but I'm going to show you other tonfas that are "mastery rank 8", but first I'm going to show Kronen VS It's Prime Counterpart, note that members of the Tonfa class have a base damage slide multiplier of 6.0x

Kronen >

Spoiler

Attack Speed 1.08

Channeling Damage 1.5x

Channel Cost 5

Total Damage 65 (70% slash)

Impact 6.5

Puncture 6.5

Slash 52

Slide Damage 390

Status Chance 20%

Critical Chance 5%

Critical Damage 1.5x

Kronen Prime >

Spoiler

Attack Speed 1.17

Channeling Damage 1.5x

Channel Cost 5

Total Damage 66 (80% slash)

Impact 6.6

Puncture 6.6

Slash 52.8

Slide Damage 396

Status Chance 24%

Critical Chance 12%

Critical Damage 2.0x

Now that you can compare the stats note that it's attack speed has been increased from 1.08 to 1.17, and it's Critical Chance was increased from 5% to 12% and its damage from 65 to 66, and its status chance from 20% to 24%.

Now lets look at Telos Boltace, a weapon that used to be ridiculously OP and was balanced to work differently.

Telos Boltace >

Spoiler

Attack Speed 1.08

Channeling Damage 1.5x

Channel Cost 5

Total Damage 85 (85% puncture)

Impact 8.5

Puncture 72.3

Slash 4.2

Slide Damage 510

Statis chance 25%

Critical Chance 10%

Critical Damage 2.0x

now comparing this to Kronen Prime, they're very neck and neck in stats,what Telos Boltace is 0.9 attack speed slower, but has 1% more status chance, then it has 2% less critical chance and 19 more damage.) But Kronen Prime has 2% more critical chance and 0.9 more attack speed and is a slash weapon so slash procs are going to be a natural plus but it has that 19 less damage. But Telos Boltace has a whopping 510 slide damage vs Kronen Prime's 396. Telos Boltace is also a syndicate weapon and has a passive that boosts Bullet Jump Velociy, Aim Glide Duration, and Wall Latch Duration by 20%. and it also has a uniquie slide attack ability that vortexes enemies in 14 meters, and another that will throw the enemies.

Now lets look at Ohma a 1 year old corpus tonfa

Ohma >

Spoiler

Attack Speed 0.917

Channeling Damage 1.5x

Channel Cost 5

Total Damage 100 Electric 

Slide Damage 600

Statis chance 30%

Critical Chance 15%

Critical Damage 2.0x

 

So, Ohma is 0.253 attack speed slower, thats a LOT but it has  6% more Status Chance and 3% crit chance and 34 more damage, and it does not have any access to slash procs, so thats a negative. But it does for direct corrosive damage. Ohma's slide damage is 600 and Kronen Prime's is 396. But Ohma also has ele

Lets look at another dual slash weapon that was primed recently that is .

Nami Skyla Prime > 

Spoiler

Attack Speed 1.33

Channeling Damage 1.5x

Channel Cost 5

Total Damage 60 (70% slash)

Slide Damage 390

Statis chance 30%

Critical Chance 20%

Critical Damage 1.5x

 

Nami Skyla Prime has 0.17 attack speed more, 0.5 less critical damage but 8% more, 6% more status chance and 6 less damage. Their stats are very close but Nami Skyla Prime's are statistically better. despite the less critical damage and less damage. 

Now lets think about this Nami Skyla started out this way..

Nami Skyla >

Spoiler

Attack Speed 0.917

Channeling Damage 1.5x

Channel Cost 5

Total Damage 50 (70% slash)

Slide Damage 300

Statis chance 10%

Critical Chance 5%

Critical Damage 1.5x

So, Nami Skyla was buffed all around the board drastically everywhere except damage but it has a higher slash damage chance. 

 

 

What is everyone's opinion on Kronen Prime, do you think it was buffed enough?

 

 

 

Spoiler

personally i think blades these big should have much more damage respectively

 

Edited March 21, 2018 by cookieknife

[Xaxma]

23 minutes ago, BaIthazar said:

I enjoyed and thought the base Kronen was pretty good, so I assume I will like the Kronen Prime even more

It looks like wings, so that reason alone is why I think it got primed with Zephyr lol