Get rid of Reactant

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

I've enjoyed the relic system very much since it was first introduced - but for me it's always had one glaring issue that I simply cannot stand facing.  Reactant.

It's such a pointless addition to these missions, and really does do anything but cause problems.  Normally you are fine you will get all 10 playing the mission but there are some instances you can get screwed or waste time for nothing:

Situation 1: You join a squad in progress, they already all have 3-4 reactant and you have 0, as soon as they get 10 they all rush to the extraction and start the timer.  This leaves you scrambling and even fighting spawn mechanics while praying enough drops on time.  Sometimes, not enough does - and that's simply down to how the enemies are Corrupted.

Situation 2: You're too good.  Sad this can even be a thing, but I just experienced this on a Sabotage - objective complete, all players with only 4 reactant because one guy was using an AoE weapon to destroy spawns before they could even turn Corrupted, one player holding everybody back.  This led to 10 minutes of running back and forth waiting for a small cluster of enemies to spawn, then hoping they stay alive long enough to get Corrupted...only to drop 1 reactant each.

Situation 3: While not as hindering, reactant can literally just fall off the map and become unobtainable.  Example Mars tileset, if it falls in any of the small "rivers" well... bye bye reactant. 

It just serves no purpose and I'm sick of having my time wasted by this pointless mechanic.  Reactant doesn't do anything positive for the mission, it doesn't make it feel diverse or interesting - it's just a nuisance. 

Please for the love of god, get rid of this garbage and just make relics crack upon objective completion.  

Edited March 26, 2018 by (PS4)lagrue

[Xaero]

But then we'll get much more leechers right?

[--Q--XFA]

I'm with Ksaero on this.

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

6 minutes ago, Ksaero said:

But then we'll get much more leechers right?

I'd rather somebody sit there and do nothing than get screwed over when I'm actively trying to do something.  

Plus there's other ways to deal with leechers.

Reactant has never stopped a player from simply running behind everybody picking it up and effectively doing nothing anyway.  If it's purpose was to prevent leeching, it doesn't do a very good job of it.

Edited March 26, 2018 by (PS4)lagrue

[[DE]Momaw]

Indeed. Reactant was added so that players had to participate at least a little bit instead of AFKing in a corner somewhere.

 

39 minutes ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

Situation 1: You join a squad in progress, they already all have 3-4 reactant and you have 0, as soon as they get 10 they all rush to the extraction and start the timer.  This leaves you scrambling and even fighting spawn mechanics while praying enough drops on time.  Sometimes, not enough does - and that's simply down to how the enemies are Corrupted.

Situation 2: You're too good.  Sad this can even be a thing, but I just experienced this on a Sabotage - objective complete, all players with only 4 reactant because one guy was using an AoE weapon to destroy spawns before they could even turn Corrupted, one player holding everybody back.  This led to 10 minutes of running back and forth waiting for a small cluster of enemies to spawn, then hoping they stay alive long enough to get Corrupted...only to drop 1 reactant each.

Situation 3: While not as hindering, reactant can literally just fall off the map and become unobtainable.  Example Mars tileset, if it falls in any of the small "rivers" well... bye bye reactant. 

Situation 1 is bad and foolish team mates.  They get a chance at your loot when you open your relic, they are literally hurting their own chances for something good by not letting you open your relic. Remind them in chat that you aren't full yet, I've seen lots of times that people at extraction just weren't keeping track of how many reactants team mates had.

Situation 2, auto-nuking isn't skill,  skill is playing the game mode's mechanics.  Auto-nuking everything so fast that they never get a chance to corrupt is IGNORING the game mechanics in fissures. How different is this from doing Sabotage missions where people are speed running the main objective and ignoring the caches?

Situation 3, fair enough, reactants that fall into pits should teleport back out like how mods drops (usually) do.

 

4 minutes ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

If it's purpose was to prevent leeching, it doesn't do a very good job of it.

What would you suggest as a replacement?

[s3b4st13n]

I've had one instance I can recall where I was late to the party, but when I mentioned that I still had reactant to get, the guys were happy to come back and help me get it. 

That said, I generally agree - I don't see the point in reactant either. Now, if they increased the reactant to like 100 (for example), with every 10 collected increasing your drop chance for the rarer items in a relic... that's different, it has a function. Right now.. yes, just a waste of time.

WRT leeching.. I'm there for my prime BP's; if someone wants to be lazy, so be it. If it doesn't negatively impact my experience, I don't care what others do.

Edited March 26, 2018 by NuttiKrust

[Xaero]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

I'd rather somebody sit there and do nothing than get screwed over when I'm actively trying to do something.  

Plus there's other ways to deal with leechers.

Reactant has never stopped a player from simply running behind everybody picking it up and effectively doing nothing anyway.  If it's purpose was to prevent leeching, it doesn't do a very good job of it.

Well, personaly I don't care about leechers as long as they don't prevent progression through missions.

But almost never I see anyone complaining about reactants. On the other hand, topics about leechers pop up here every day. So I guess changing relic system in favor of leechers is a bad idea since it'll cause massive frustration among community.

Edited March 26, 2018 by Ksaero

[YandereWaifu]

i wouldnt mind removing reactants or making reactants  into a team wide thing, basically if one of your team mates collects reactant, it counts for you as well, i believe this will not change the way things are but it would definitly relieve some issues.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

24 minutes ago, Ksaero said:

But then we'll get much more leechers right?

I hate leechers.  I really do.  If I could grief them without getting banned I would probably LOOK for leechers to grief I have so much hate and spite for leechers.

That being said, the ONLY reason I do fissures in pub instead of solo is for the chance at someone else having a better/different drop than me, since RNG is probably going to screw me.  So as much as I hate them, all 3 of the pubbies can sit in spawn while I do the mission so I can pick from 4 rewards instead of just getting whatever mine gave, for all I care.  I just want their relics, I don't need their help.

On the flip side of that, if you don't move in a defense mission, you don't get the rotation reward.  They could implement that in fissures.  If you don't help, your relic doesn't open.

Getting rid of reactant would be a HUGE benefit, because certain mission types, like sabotage, almost ALWAYS bug out for me, and stop dropping reactant after the mission objective is completed.  It took nearly 20 minutes AFTER the objective was over for us to get one of our group the reactant they needed to finish, once.  In exterminate missions the reactant drops so fast you have all 10 by the time you've killed 1/5th of the enemies required.  If the reactant dropped at that rate in all missions types (which it needs to.  farming reactant is a tedious, pointless process), the question you have to ask is "why have it drop at all?"  Other than leechers, I can't think of a single reason to have to collect it.

[-CoCo-MercurialKara]

If they keep reactant, they should increase the spawn rate of the fissures if one or more people don't have all the reactant.

[Syasob]

Exterminate - you can join mission after 99% kills are done and still will get 10 reactants before team will reach extraction.

Capture - you'll probably will have to wait few minutes running in circles searching for spawns if you join when target is almost killed.

Sabotage - pure random. You can get less then 5 reactants the moment you ready to extract or you can get 10 before you even reach the target.

Spy - mostly like exterminate in terms of reactant drops.

Mobile defense - lots of enemies=lots of reactant. Really easy mission if you don't mind waiting few minutes.

Interception - mission is really boring by itself. You either have to deals with hordes rushing towards your point or you can hardly see a single enemy in the whole wave. If i have to do it with random players i gear up to do it solo in case teammates don't have enough damage/survivability. Reactant had no chances to make it worse.

Survival - well, if the team can't stand in afinity range most of the time, you'll probably have hard time collecting 10 reactants. Otherwise it's really fast and easy.

Defense - in case the map has no points where mobs decide to play hide-and-seek instead of rushing to the target... well, it still has reactant drop rate close to 12-15 per 5 waves and first rotation can be easily failed if you join too late.

Excavation - i'll just say that you can fail to get 10/10 even if you sit in a voice-chat.

 

TL DR: removing reactant will remove the useless struggle from almost every mission.

[peterc3]

12 hours ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

You're too good.

Are you really that good if you aren't playing the game correctly?

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

2 hours ago, peterc3 said:

Are you really that good if you aren't playing the game correctly?

Is "correctly" playing the game standing there waiting for the random corruption to happen?  Standing still letting enemies shoot you because a corruption hasn't happened yet?  Running in circles in front of a group of enemies who haven't corrupted yet?  Unequipping your Sentinel/Kubrow/Kavat so they don't kill everything? 

Because if so, that's incredibly unintuitive by design. 

I must have forgot the only correct way to play the game was to toggle off sprint, and walk through levels with my unmodded MK.1 Braton and Skana - and even then I'd probably still be able to murder the crowds before they can corrupt...  maybe I need to bump up my correctness levels and switch to an unmodded MK. 1 Kunai... it wasn't even me who was nuking the groups in that game, but really, what could I expect of the guy short of gimping himself and doing nothing?

It shouldn't even be a thing that you can kill things "too fast."  High MR players/well geared players kind of can't help the fact they melt everything in their path...

I mean please, please enlighten me on how to correctly play the game.

Edited March 26, 2018 by (PS4)lagrue

[(XBOX)RPColten]

Players can leech even with reactant by just following the squad around since reactant drops for everyone. Reactant does serve a somewhat nice purpose in that it saves relics should the player suffer a disconnect or mission failure. Moving reactant to a group-wide shared pool would ease the mission flow slightly and make it less of a chore mid-mission. I'm not complaining about picking up random gold bits, but the unfortunate nature of it just sometimes not dropping consistently does get in the way of having an enjoyable experience.

Edited March 26, 2018 by (XB1)RPColten
Edits

[GrayArchon]

In my experience, Sabotage fissures (of any kind) are abysmal for reactant, but I get around this by just refusing to run Sabotage fissures. If some people have 10 reactant and others don't, I'll often tell the squad in chat to hold off, and they listen, but even if I don't, most people see that you don't have 10 (it shows up on squad health bars) and they'll wait on their own. I can count the number of times I've had problems with my squad in fissures on one hand.

And yeah, if you're killing enemies before they get corrupted… stop killing them so fast. Know how the game works and don't try to fight game mechanics. I don't see how that's an issue for you.

[peterc3]

39 minutes ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

Is "correctly" playing the game standing there waiting for the random corruption to happen?  Standing still letting enemies shoot you because a corruption hasn't happened yet?  Running in circles in front of a group of enemies who haven't corrupted yet?  Unequipping your Sentinel/Kubrow/Kavat so they don't kill everything? 

Because if so, that's incredibly unintuitive by design. 

I must have forgot the only correct way to play the game was to toggle off sprint, and walk through levels with my unmodded MK.1 Braton and Skana - and even then I'd probably still be able to murder the crowds before they can corrupt...  maybe I need to bump up my correctness levels and switch to an unmodded MK. 1 Kunai... it wasn't even me who was nuking the groups in that game, but really, what could I expect of the guy short of gimping himself and doing nothing?

It shouldn't even be a thing that you can kill things "too fast."  High MR players/well geared players kind of can't help the fact they melt everything in their path...

I mean please, please enlighten me on how to correctly play the game.

The whole Fissure thing is killing enemies under a specific buff will drop an item you need. If you go into a mission like this and wipe out all the enemies before any of them can become buffed or allow anything to spawn, then I don't know what to tell you. Maybe cater your loadout to a mission rather than thinking AoE everything is the best way to play the game, especially since it is an obvious detriment to this specific type?

[Guest]

Could do with something towards the relic, killing enemies, when objective is done and everyone's at extraction zone, each one has to have at least done something meaningful, like participate in killing enemies or run/acrobatic for a certain distance throughout the mission. Somewhat like the mission challenges, as right now we've got the low drop chance (except exterminate) which results no reward *cough* Excavation *cough*, and sometimes defence (if unlucky enough). 

Of course there could be added more minor challenges to unlock the relic itself. 

[IceColdHawk]

2 hours ago, peterc3 said:

The whole Fissure thing is killing enemies under a specific buff will drop an item you need. If you go into a mission like this and wipe out all the enemies before any of them can become buffed or allow anything to spawn, then I don't know what to tell you. Maybe cater your loadout to a mission rather than thinking AoE everything is the best way to play the game, especially since it is an obvious detriment to this specific type?

So you're saying is that players should handicap themself in order to get through a flawed mission design? Why not corrupt them faster and increase spawns? Why not introduce some ACTION into an ACTION game?

Not everyone likes to twist their thumbs while playing a mission.

[Voltage]

2 hours ago, peterc3 said:

The whole Fissure thing is killing enemies under a specific buff will drop an item you need. If you go into a mission like this and wipe out all the enemies before any of them can become buffed or allow anything to spawn, then I don't know what to tell you. Maybe cater your loadout to a mission rather than thinking AoE everything is the best way to play the game, especially since it is an obvious detriment to this specific type?

Not everyone enjoys being slow like they are MR 5 starting out again. Have you ever done Sabotage Fissures? You can all use Loki for crying out loud and enemies still drop 5 reactant at most after objective is complete.

I am sorry that because DE cannot design a streamlined gamemode, the player is wrong because they are faster than a turtle crossing the street in mundane tasks such as reactor sabotage.

[NoSpax]

In Spy, they should refrain from opening Rifts in Vaults. Seriously. I try to stealth BOOM. Rift. Corrupted everywhere. No idea how they trigger. 

Reactants can kill your relic in Survive or any other TIME based mission (5 minute interval) I failed a relic, cause I couldn't get the last one. Fun thing is, when I resumed the game, I started with 1/10. So.. I collected it, but it didn't count in the old relic? 

So I usually do Spy, Exterm and Excavation. 

[Morndawn]

This OP leads to my old rumble - I really liked the original opening of fissure, killing all enemis, closing the fissure and be done with it. Then players were complaining about some bugs and suddenly they changed the whole cool concept into... gathering, which is what you do all the time in Warframe and players are used to it. But for me it killed a chance to have something different :(

[Oreades]

Ugh the Sabotage and capture fissures can go so sideways it isn't funny and when it happens they are the definition of NOT FUN. 

I've run into at least three or four today alone that broke down to running around for like 10min praying ANYTHING would spawn...... There is little rhyme or reason to it either. Some missions you have no trouble getting 10 and the others you're just stuck in purgatory.....