KHORA

[(PSN)Silverback73]

4 hours ago, Arniox said:

Nah. Just let DE release it. Let them go about their own ideas and release it next week. 

Common guys. NEXT WEEK. I'm hyped and I don't want it delayed more so just let it go. 

I am a firm believer that Integrity withstands the disappointments of expectation when you have a track record of great finished products.

Believe me, I understand the pressures of business when it comes to production in any commercial field with an artistic component.  Especially when balanced against something that the team effectively owns as their own creative property.

Ultimately it’s good to simplify feedback so here is mine:

1.  The Community really values the unique quality of an “Exalted whip”.  Worry about damage balancing later and be conservative if worried.  Get the cosmetic into the game.  Immersion is VERY important.

2.  You don’t need to reinvent damage.  Just make PRoC damage types other than slash slightly more effective versions of what exists.

3.  She was “sold” as the Dominatrix physical damage version of Chroma with a cat. That Should be included, even akin to Ivara arrows or similar mechanic.

Fans are upset because it feels like an overpromise/underdelivered bait-and-switch atm.

Love the DE team but a promise to at least revisit after release would go a long way.

 

Fin

Edited April 14, 2018 by (PS4)Silverback73

[Trichouette]

il y a 9 minutes, NightsVisions a dit :

  However I feel like if her kit will remain more or less same as shown on devstream, she will be lackluster at least. Her 1, 2 and 4 are basically just downgraded niduses abilities.

So i'm not the only one who noticed....

il y a 9 minutes, NightsVisions a dit :

even bring her Exalted whip back.

I don't agree with this.

To me exalted weapons are just lazy design.

"We don't know what to add as last ability so well why not an exalted weapon"

It's the same as having a whip equipped, what do you gain from this ?

il y a 10 minutes, NightsVisions a dit :

Her 1 definitely needs to get lower body animation removed as its pretty condraproductive for so spammable abilitty to lock you in the place for so long

Yes please, no more "lock you into place" ability (like almost all of trinity's abilities)

il y a 10 minutes, NightsVisions a dit :

Her 2 is just way too slow for warframe, most of the time it will be just one/two enemy disable.

That one ability is exactly nidus'2 but... way slower and without the huge mess.

 

They went from "we wanted to use our damage rework into this frame" to "let's copy/paste nidus but with a cat".

[Nacond]

I think I'm out... 

The reason playing the last few months was because I was so hypedfor Khora...

And while I got disappointed with every update where she wasn't released I still had hope... about a great frame with 4 abilities I'd love to use

Now I'm so sad about her 4... yeah we don't know exactly what it does... or at least I have no idea because in the devstream it often looked like it was just failing...

 

Maybe I'll be coming back with umbra... so... soon... -.-

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

So Khora's new kit was shown off and it's receiving mixed feelings.  I thought i'd add my thoughts into the mix.  If I had to give her a rating atm it would be...7/10.  I prefer this new kit to her old kit though.  And let me tell you why to get that out of the way.  Her gimmick back then despite being advertized as a summoner was switching between damage types.  Personally I found this boring.  I'm also glad the exhaulted whip was removed.  Again her theme was about summoning a pet.  and far as we knew nothing was stated about the whip would synergize with her pet.  Her pet felt like a summon and then forget effect in her old kit.  I'm not fond of just handing out exalted weapons.  Overall her original kit seemed very smashed together with barely functioning ideas and an exalted weapon to be an easy crowd pleaser.

So now lets talk about her new kit.  Her 1 remains the same but without the switching of modes.  Her 2 CC's one enemy and slowly ccs more.  and you get better damage with your 1 when hitting entangled enemies.  Her 3 still summons a pet kavat.  But now it has 3 modes.  attacking, disarming, and healing.  This is huge.  Because only 2 other frames have disarming until now.  A long side healing and you've got yourself some solid support work.  Her 4 dubbed "Strangle dome" meshes to the environment and grabs enemies doing damage over time to them and allowing khora again do more damage with her 1.

So this fits her dominatrix/pet summoning theme better than her OG kit.  and the massive cc with 2 support modes on the kavat solidifies her as a support frame.  I can see how she seems similar to other kits.  Her 2 and 1 combo and 4 and one combo seem similar to nidus.  Except nidus relies on his 1 for his kit to function.  Khora does not.  Nidus's 2 is a quick pull.  Khora's is a slow pull.  This is good.  Because it means you stagger enemy spawns rather than nuking a group and having another group spawn.  It also makes it easier for your allies to contribute to killing the target rather than Nidus basically taking all the action just so he can live.  Her 3 has potential.  If it's heal is AOE that means people can be topped up instead of only one person being saved. (since it's supposed to go after low health allies.)  and if the disarm is also AOE this also means in later waves when you're not out right killing enemies with your 2/1 or 4/1 combo means they will be much less of a threat to you and your group.

I can see the comparisons of her 4 to vaubons ability.  But it's arguably better.  You have a way to drag enemies into her 4 via her 2.  And because it's shape conforms to the area you cast it in it's much more likely to catch people compared to his ability.  Also i'm like 90% sure it grabs more people than his ability as well.  Because they talked about each point grabbing enemies.  That all being said we still don't know a lot.  We don't know if there are any synergies with her 3 with enemies caught in her 2 or her 4.  We don't know what stats effect what.  etc.  My only real issue with khora's new kit at this time is that visually her abilities lack flair.

Functionally we really haven't had a pure CC related frame in awhile except for octavia.  and it's less CC there and more afk simulator where enemies kill themselves.  I was initially attracted to the likes of nyx, loki, and booben because of them being more utility based than straight tank or straight damage.  And it seems like khora is the next frame in a line of frames like this.  Which makes me happy.

[Ragingwasabi]

i love exalted weapons, so im disappointed with this new kit. i want that exalted whip

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

Exhaulted weapons are boring and don't need to be crammed into the game more.  Further more the enticing factor for Khora was pet summoning.  Unless her exhaulted whip actually had any interaction with her pet it would have just overshadowed it.  Her pet was pretty much a fire and forget ability in her old kit.  Now that the rest of Khora's kit is support related VIA cc and her pet has the toggle options she's far more in line with her original tag line as being a summoner.  You can easily compare the functions of abilities to other frames.  This isn't new with Khora.

Harrow thematically is more about self punishment.  Khora is a domenatrix.  just because both occasionally use binding doesn't mean they're remotely similar.

[Ragingwasabi]

i really want the exalted whip as her ult

[Azamagon]

As far as I can see, Khora is basicly our metalspider-frame, along with being a catsummoner.

Her 1st is a lash with her whip. Fits the metalspider theme well (using the web as a direct weapon)

Her 2nd groups up enemies with metal wires, kinda of liking having an automated cocoon. Also fits the metalspider theme well.

Her 3rd summons a metal cat. Bit odd animal to summon considering her theme, would've preferred it to be a spiderlike summon, but I can see why that's a bad idea (people with Arachnophobia), so I don't mind. At least, being a spider-esque frame, having a summon is at least very fitting.

Her 4th went from an exalted whip to a metalwire dome. Honestly, either one works fine by me, as they both fit that spiderlike theme. But if anything, I'm probably more happy with the dome-choice (if they can make it do something more unique rather than just being another CC like her #2), because If they had went with her exalted whip, her #1 could/would probably have been a possible waste of an ability. Now she gets both a whip (although not in an exalted form) AND a spiderweb-like dome.

Now... onto what the dome COULD be doing. How about:
The dome's inside is filled with web-like razorwires (DoT and slow to all enemies inside), and enemies can't see into the dome from the outside (i.e. it breaks their line of sight), meaning they have to get inside the dome to see and target Khora and her allies that might be inside / past the dome. Pseudo-invisibility, if you may. This would work well with her melee nature'd #1 and could pair extremely well with her #2's CC-nature. How it'd synergize with her summon, I dunno, but that would still have more uniqueness-potential than just being another (rather odd) CC-skill.

[Threa]

I'm glad you guys are excited about her and I hope you enjoy her when she comes out. I'm not very happy with her kit at the moment though. 

[Trichouette]

il y a 8 minutes, Ragingwasabi a dit :

i really want the exalted whip as her ult

Equip a whip, it's the same but better.

And I don't think we need more "spin-to-win" in warframe

[Threa]

To those of you who are saying we haven't even tried her yet, I understand what you're saying and I partially agree. However, that doesn't mean we shouldn't express our concerns about what we have seen so far. I feel that feedback should occur before and after the release of content, it doesn't hurt to provide suggestions and opinions right now rather than just refrain and wish we had spoken up sooner. 

[NightsVisions]

6 minutes ago, Trichouette said:

Equip a whip, it's the same but better.

And I don't think we need more "spin-to-win" in warframe

While I do agree that lazily-designed Exalts result in the lazily designed frames, well designed Exalts do the total opposite imo. Titania without razorwing or Excalibur without exalted blade would just lose their identity. And I dont hope for ,,the classic,, meta spin to win whip. As I mentioned in the post, combo-heavy whip with swipes, dashes and with damage output not centralized in spin attacks, but in properly performed combos would fit her perfectly.

Edited April 14, 2018 by NightsVisions

[Crousere]

I have to agree, her 4th skill looked a bit disappointing. In my opinion there are already too many circle shaped CC abilities.

[Hypernaut1]

48 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

You don't release content that people will potentially pay for to "test" something.

???

What are you talking about?

[Azamagon]

26 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

1.  The Community really values the unique quality of an “Exalted whip”.  Worry about damage balancing later and be conservative if worried.  Get the cosmetic into the game.  Immersion is VERY important.

2.  You don’t need to reinvent damage.  Just make PRoC damage types other than slash slightly more effective versions of what exists.

3.  She was “sold” as the Dominatrix physical damage version of Chroma with a cat. That Should be included, even akin to Ivara arrows or similar mechanic.

Fans are upset because it feels like an overpromise/underdelivered bait-and-switch atm.

Love the DE team but a promise to at least revisit after release would go a long way.

 

Fin

I'll do this in reverse order:

3) She hasn't been "sold" yet, she is still a WiP. I for one am glad they didn't rush out something halfdone that possibly wouldn't work out too well, especially with impatient players nagging so much about "Where's Khora already??". Yeah, they could've made her like originally promised, with the damagetype-changes thought through later, but they wanted to release her in a functional and complete state. And considering that the might not even do ANY changes to the physical damagetypes, it's all the more reason they might've needed to go back on the Exalted Whip and the physical damagetype niche entirely.

2) No need indeed, but they are weirdly enough seemingly scared of buffing Impact and Puncture, even the tiniest bit. Why, I dunno.

1) While she won't have an Exalted Whip, she'll still at least have a whip-attack in her first ability. I for one don't mind this, because when you give an Exalted weapon-frame both a weapon-based skill AND an exalted weapon, chances are that people will only use one or the other. I mean, look at Wukong with Iron Jab and Primal Fury. Excalibur was better designed in this regard, as his Slash Dash offers mobility and invulnerability-frames, which gives a nice complement to his Exalted Weapon, rather than pure competition. Wukong has nothing complementary like that (in fact both his skill suck), and Khora ran a big risk of having the exact same issue.

Also, it's not a bait-and-switch if it hasn't been implemented into the game for the players to use yet.
Even so, if they add her as is, there is still possibilities of the Exalted Whip being able to exist: Holdcast her #1 to make it equipped, or make it an Exalted weapon via an augment for her #1. It's not total doom :)

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

I can agree with making her 1 not freezing you in place.  I think her 2 is fine.  Slower pull means allies can contribute to damaging the enemy easier rather than long range yoinks.  Also means you stagger spawns which is helpful in niche situations. Her 3 is amazing.  her 4 has 2 great behaviors imo.  The fact that it conforms to the environment you cast it around means it's more likely to catch targets compared to boobens similar ability.  and it potentially grabs more enemies than boobens ability.

She lacks some visual flair.  But the only thing i'm worried about is wether the heal and disarm are single target or AOE.  and khora's own survival.  Her 4 doesn't block any damage out.  and her 3 is the only ability that has any kind of self sustain.  She also doesn't output a ton of damage either.  I'm hoping there are some synergies hidden that we haven't seen yet like what happened with gara.

[Hypernaut1]

55 minutes ago, Oru5732 said:

I'm pretty sure the community knows what the community wants. That's also why the forum has a feedback category.

I'm pretty sure the "community" doesn't always know what it wants... Especially before they've tried it. 

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

1 minute ago, Hypernaut1 said:

???

What are you talking about?

in regards to you telling them to ship her as is with damage 2.5 and let players playtest that.

[Threa]

15 hours ago, peterc3 said:

I thought DE was the developer of the game?

It would scale off any melee weapon, like every other Exalted melee.

How are you this salty over something that doesn't exist yet?

Telling players things like this on a forum, a tool used for open discussion and feedback is a bit counterintuitive. We're not salty, we're concerned.

I can understand why people don't want yet another exalted weapon, it doesn't mean we shouldn't add more to the game when it makes sense or when it fits within a Warframe's kit. I felt like it did, in Khora's case. I respect that some people don't like the mechanic and in that case, I hope we can agree to disagree and hope that maybe DE can come up with something that most of us will enjoy using. 

[Birdframe_Prime]

10 hours ago, Raspberry said:

Also, she's a cat-and-whip frame, not a spider frame.

Heh, I'm sorry... but... what? They literally gave us an entire DevStream feature with the creator of the frame and its inspiration process that literally states multiple times that he was looking at making a spider themed frame...

Besides, if you think that any Warframe with a Cat and a Whip and a Binding function wouldn't also have the ability to turn anywhere they wanted into their own little Fungeon (Fun Dungeon, it's a thing...) then you're missing out on that bigger picture there my friend.

You're kind of done either way in terms of theme, because a 'cat and whip' frame is also a 'binding' frame, just like a 'spider' frame ^^

[SneakyErvin]

Honestly, outside of Excal I'm not a fan of exalted melee at all. And in the case of Excal it is likely because his works well at mid-range. Wukong I barely touch and when playing Valkyr I'm using Eternal Warcry along with a melee weapon of choice instead of Hysteria. Hysteria's only real point is being invulnerable while in the thick of it. Well Valkyr is already close to immortal with Steel Fiber, Vitality and a Life Strike or Healing Return on her melee. Sure a melee mod slot is occupied for sustaining your health, but the option to bring a melee weapon with wide reach makes up for that in no time. Another bonus is that you get to decide on going crit or status when not using Hysteria.

So when it comes to Khora I'm very pleased that her 4th skill isnt exalted and instead a fire-and-forget. Her #1 working similar to Gara's is great imo. If it Khora's synergizes just the same with Natural Talent it will be wonderful.

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

33 minutes ago, Threa said:

To those of you who are saying we haven't even tried her yet, I understand what you're saying and I partially agree. However, that doesn't mean we shouldn't express our concerns about what we have seen so far. I feel that feedback should occur before and after the release of content, it doesn't hurt to provide suggestions and opinions right now rather than just refrain and wish we had spoken up sooner. 

They already scrapped the idea for the whip months ago and I really doubt we can get in any more input on how she conceptually should be. It's moot point. It's coming out as is.

That said it really comes down to how the abilities are applied. We're getting a trapper/beastmaster which sounds cool imo.

[----Fenrir----]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb (PS4)Tactless_Ninja:

They already scrapped the idea for the whip months ago and I really doubt we can get in any more input on how she conceptually should be.

Which is a really questionable decision considering her model still clearly shows 4 whip handles.

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

1 minute ago, ----Fenrir---- said:

Which is a really questionable decision considering her model still clearly shows 4 whip handles.

They're now net handles.

[Trichouette]

il y a 49 minutes, NightsVisions a dit :

Titania without razorwing

Titania's 4 isn't just an exalted weapon, it's another gameplay aswell. You no longer run around and gun stuff but instead you fly.

They could've done the same thing without the dex pixia (and that useless toothpick) and it would've been even better.

(tiny pixie flying around and shooting rockets :)   )

il y a 49 minutes, NightsVisions a dit :

Excalibur without exalted blade would just lose their identity.

Honestly I would prefer if they removed it.

Excalibur is supposed to be A MELEE frame, not a sentry spamming piercing waves everywhere.

il y a 50 minutes, NightsVisions a dit :

And I dont hope for ,,the classic,, meta spin to win whip. As I mentioned in the post, combo-heavy whip with swipes, dashes and with damage output not centralized in spin attacks, but in properly performed combos would fit her perfectly.

You know what players will do if they ever put a whip exalted weapon.

Run around spamming the slide attack because it's the one with the highest range and damage (and often the least downtime between attacks)