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[DE]Danielle

Developer Workshop: Saryn Revisited 2.0

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Spores changed from Viral to Corrosive? The POINT of Saryn was to chew through them and infect them with disease, Corrosive doesn't meet the whole 'Spore' definition, Viral does.

I feel this might effectively kill the frame in late game content, sure the spores will now do increased damage, but is that worth sacrificing the half HP? Not a fan of the Damage type swap.

I'm wary of this rework, Saryn was fine in my opinion and the only changes REALLY needed was a Scaling Molt and Toxic Lash rework...

Edited by Latiac
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the spreading mechanic is really bad. Can't kill them, I guess you can't spread.

 

Edit: the wording was super confusing. Seems fine on the showcase.

 

Edited by SSI_Seraph
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This isn't what we meant when we said we wanted a proc on Miasma, Leave viral on spores and corrosive on miasma. Will toxic lash selectively targeting spores before hitting an enemy be fixed with this? Will spores still transfer toxic damage as well? Is Miasma losing one of its two multipliers coming from having toxin + viral already affecting the target to just corrosive?

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1 minute ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

The swapping of damage types will reveal which way this really goes (as well as the question of whether you can spread the toxin DoT's by bursting spores). 

Yeah that is the one thing up there in what Danielle wrote that has me worried. I also wonder if the synergy of gas and the spores will still be there...cause spreading corrosion and the gas viral proc would be a deadly 1-2 combo.

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No mention of the 25% base damage from weapons transferring when popping spores with said weapon.   If this is not carried over from current Saryn then that gimps her as far as dealing with higher or tougher enemies even with this proposed "infinite duration and escalating damage"

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32 minutes ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Recasting Spores will detonate all active Spores and will deal 2x the damage on an infected enemy based on the number of active Spores and their current damage per tick.

RIP Saryn.

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As a guy who loves him some Saryn, I am pretty happy to see this, I can't wait!

That armor buff!

Corrosive proc for days!

Molt that isnt paper-mache!

Significant melee damage!

Viral explosions!

Sounds good to me!

 

 

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Looks good, was kinda hoping that the augment for the health will be added at default, and the augment will be as the HUSK like that one Orphid Specter from The Silver Grove Quest.

 

P.S. please DE does testing in the farming area. Cause you do know, the moment it comes out. a lot of ppl will test in those XP farm mission. 

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34 minutes ago, [DE]Danielle said:

The first step was removing the synergy to cast Spores on Molt

Well, that just summarizes the rework, doesn't it.

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Was it really so bad to have a warframe where the basic 1 ability was able to do something useful? Viral allowed you to debuff all enemy types. Corrosive, by comparison, is worthless on 2/3 of enemy factions.

We already have so many band-aids for the armour scaling, why did Saryn need to become yet another one?

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2 minutes ago, ngrazer said:

RIP Saryn.

Hey Tenno!

Can you please elaborate on your point here? We would love to know what about the change to this part of "Spores" has you thinking this way :)

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34 minutes ago, [DE]Danielle said:
  • Increased Saryn’s Armor from 175 to 225 (at rank 30)
  • Increased Saryn Prime’s Armor from 225 to 300 (at rank 30) 

Why does the "heaviest" warframe that is depicted on my avatar has less armor than a caster?

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I appreciate the armor buff and everything else, but what has me worried the most is the viral proc change on her spores, spreading viral proc is her thing and it's the most useful element of her kit in my experience, in low lvl missions everything dies just too quickly but in high level missions spores alone won't kill enemies, halving their health is the important part. Still I'd like to see how this goes, she's my go-to warframe and my most played one.

I was also hoping Regenerative Molt would be integrated in the base ability, but we'll see if her armor buff will be enough for her survivaility.

Edited by Kamentari
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Like everyone is saying .. 

Leave Viral on Spores. . Corrosive on Miasma.. There is no reason at all to switch both of them..  

If you cant kill them with Spores.(corrosive damage with the intended rework) . how are you suppose to kill them .. Saryn at very high level is all about cutting HP in Half with Viral .. Corrosive dont really matter in a 4xCP team .. 


Maybe if the damage upping is really high, it could be what push Spores being good.. but with the intended rework.. I think Saryn will lose her identity for Endgame..  

I know you dont want her to be a sit and forget frame.. But changing Viral to Corrosive isnt really a change in that direction IMO

RIP Saryn at very high level .. She wasnt there for doing damage. .She was there for cutting hp in half ..



BUT I would have to say that all the other changes are pretty nice and amazing ..

And Beside Switching Viral to corrosive for the Spore, all the other Spore change seems fine and "Increased Status Chance from 10% to 50%, also scaling with Power Strength." Seems really really nice ... 

EDIT : You really need to not remove the Cast on molt interaction .. 
 

Edited by MunsuLight
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well, wwsnt expected this, not rly sure what to think of it either, might be an improvement...might not be

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51 minutes ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Her Regenerative Molt Augment remains the same! “Saryn regenerates health over a span of time after casting Molt.”

REALLY should be integrated into the skill....and then make a new augment imo....

apart from that...im liking the changes...though i really think Miasma should have more duration and/or a lingering cloud effect.

saryn is already good in onslaught...makes me wonder how well she will do with these proposed changes.

as for the damage type swap...idk...would love to see it in action first before commenting...as i love the spreading of viral...its basically like Nova's Molecular prime...except with much longer duration and damage.

Seeing others comment on the damage type switch....at least currently her 1 is useful against EVERYTHING....corrosive procs are useful only against grineer....and even then that is really only on high fire rate weapons. IF corrosive status had some kind of scale where it stripped off the amount of armor based on damage dealt...compared to now where it is a diminishing 25% current armor per proc (i would rather see it as as minimum 5% flat per proc...increasing based on damage dealt with a cap of say, 50%, so 2 shots at most no matter the armor....which would help with the apparent over-reliance on scaling armor late-game...and thus help with low fire rate weapon (snipers and bows) AND high fire rate weapons (nearly everything else))

Edited by Kalvorax
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"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

If this goes through I will be quitting this game. Saryn is one of my favorite frames. This is a nerf disguised as a rework.

For years Ive spent my hard earned money on this game because I supported the development, but I do not support this.

Quit ruining your game.

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3 minutes ago, Latiac said:

Spores changed from Viral to Corrosive? The POINT of Saryn was the chew through them and infect them with disease, Corrosive doesn't meet the whole 'Spore' definition, Viral does.

I feel this might effectively kill the frame in late game content, sure the spores will now do increased damage, but is that worth sacrificing the half HP?

I'm wary of this rework, Saryn was fine in my opinion and the only changes REALLY needed was a Scaling Molt and Toxic Lash rework...

Typical right?

Playerbase: "Hey DE, uhhh Saryn's great but we'd like just this 'sliiiiight' tweak to the abilities to promote better synergy. Here's what we think (based on Hundreds of hours of in-game time)."

DE: "Oh okay that sounds great we gotchu fam."

Result - Complete overhaul that isn't anywhere near what was asked for...

Also when I read the second developer's note; I went yep that's not going to stay. Get ready for spores to not spread to surrounding enemies... I really want to know what the whole point of Saryn is at that point if she isn't able to spread her spores???

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4 minutes ago, [DE]Aidan said:

Hey Tenno!

Can you please elaborate on your point here? We would love to know what about the change to this part of "Spores" has you thinking this way :)

I know you are asking for real, but I also want to know why people are disliking this. I mean, Viral can still be proced by Molt

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1 minute ago, [DE]Aidan said:

Hey Tenno!

Can you please elaborate on your point here? We would love to know what about the change to this part of "Spores" has you thinking this way 🙂

My take is this:

 

I feel (and some of the community feels) that corrosive isn't simply enough and will hinder Saryns ability in the late game far more than help.

Viral halved health and that was AMAZING with how the enemy health scales up currently, unless the enemies get a complete total scale rework Corrosive spores will only really seem good on paper and early to mid game mission content, that and it will really hinder Saryn's effectiveness against anything without armour as a whole.

Viral had utility, it stopped the player having to run a Viral build on every weapon out there for late game content and let them get a little bit more creative.

Saryn essentially provided the utility for the team the later the game went on, it wasn't about damage and map nuking in high end content, it was about providing all those health debuffs to help your team kill said enemies before they inevitably one shotted you across the map.

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These changes are nice on her and at least she will be a bit more durable with the armor boost and the ability changes and it seems that not ruins her playstyles. But as Deadsins said there are less popular frames that needs changes more than Saryn needs. I also like the changes but as Titania main I would like to some changes on her first, her third ability and some quol changes. She have for example a very small energy pool despite she is a caster like frame and the dex pixia energy consumption is great releative to her overall energy pool. Also her lantern needs some changes because the fly away lantern is just not fun and you basically waste a lot of energy on an ability which fly away to the orbit from the battlefield leaving you with angry mobs.

Also she could given some armor too not so much just +35 so her armor rate could be 100 at least which is not so much but still better. Her energy level need to be increased aswell.

 

I am not wukong player and I didn't played with him but the most complaints is his first ability and the cloudwalk. The cloudwalk is slow and mostly waste of the ability slot while his iron jab just simply clunky and not really effective against targets. It could be like the dota2 wukong ability so with 1 hit you can hit multiple targets and looks at least cool too. Also with that ability you could stun the enemies for a short time (2-3 sec).

 

Vauban is an old frame and his passive is just not really good because that armor what he given when mates are close is simply just a waste on passive ability because you could just give him that 200 armor instant and at least he won't be one shotted. His all abilities needs some revisit and increased duration and his vortex is too weak to compared other ultimates also the duration is not really enough. Bastille's duration is also short and the enemy cap is limits it. The mines are nice and fun but situational and some of these are partially useless. Tesla is fun ability but weak and it needs some tweaks and instead of a duration based ability it could be a toggle ability or an ability where you can put x amount of teslas and those needs some energy consumption. This ability could synergize if there are for example 20-25 teslas and those are could work like a connected system and burst a large doze of electricity to the nearby enemies.

 

For first round I guess it is fine and at moment these frames come in my mind in dire needs of tweaks. Sorry for my grammar but the english is not my native but I hope you can understand it.

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Since the 'Spore Turrets' probably gone for good, I think it is nice to make sure that spore cast range and spore spread radius are increase in return.

Casting spore on molt currently is really convenient because the Molt isn't moving anywhere. But the enemy is constantly moving with unpredictable movement direction.

Edit:

Spore does Viral and Miasma does Corrosive, I think its the best way for this ability. "Stripping armor capability" should be given to another equipment or mod in my opinion.

Edited by PerfectCrime
Spore&Miasma
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