Please nuke "Nuke" Trinity

[Kjahla81]

I want it change because it gets annoying having revive a Trinity who keeps blowing themselves up.

[Eathian]

5 minutes ago, Kjahla81 said:

I want it change because it gets annoying having revive a Trinity who keeps blowing themselves up.

Generally I don't die from blowing myself up. It's usually just the sudden weakness from having Link drop.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Eathian

[HanShotFirst]

On 2018-05-15 at 3:42 PM, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

3. Trinity players that build for this BS of a tactic neglect their role as the support Warframe of the team. 

I'm totally sympathetic to points 1 & 2, but 3? Nah, sorry. You're not entitled to *anyone* performing a "role" regardless of how you think their Warframe should be played.

[N64Gamefreak]

14 hours ago, DjKaplis said:

Another solution (although it's trolling and limits you to only 2 warframes) - play Saryn or Frost with augment on their 1st ability to give Trinity a toxin or ice damage buff 🙂 Both Saryn and Frost can be quite useful in onslaught as well.

Thank you for this suggestion.  Works great in Index 😁

[Derethevil]

There. Replace like with nerf and you got the anual Warframe Community Forum theme.
 

Most of the time people demanding nerfs... the occasional guy who say he doesn't want it to be nerfd... And then the climax at the end DE giving in and nerfing it at the end.

You are welcome. 

[LuckyCharm]

On 2018-05-16 at 5:42 AM, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Tittle says it all. Decided to try out Elite Sanctuary Onslaught and all I was ever teamed up with was braindead Trinity players with their Sancti Castanas, clearing out the entire map.

Reasons:

1. It's unfun for those of us involved, since we're left with basically nothing to kill.

2. Requires no effort. Even Octavia requires more skill.

3. Trinity players that build for this BS of a tactic neglect their role as the support Warframe of the team. No Blessing, no Energy Vampire, just Link (with augment) and jumping in the same place, popping the Sancti Castanas

 

Solution: remove the ability to avoid self-damage by jumping and fix efficiency. Make it decay at a constant, non-increasing rate. Eventually players will hit a wall where they won't be able to kill everything

 

You had me until the word "Title"

Been in many ESO runs and so far I've had 2x nuke trins in about 20+ runs. And It didn't annoy me, in fact I was questioning them on how they did it so I could try it. It certainly looks a little more involved than saryns molt spam, or equinox's main, or any of the other popular things, since she a) has to have good castanas, b) has to time her jumps and throws right else she'll kill herself, and c) has to play trinity, who at those levels is very squishy since she has such low base armor. 

I'd rather have more niche builds appearing like this than cutting down on the one build people with a previously unused weapon get to play with. They already nerfed nukekong and that really was the only time many people even picked him up. 

 

If you want to nerf things that make things unfun for people... nerf limbo. He ruins any sort of teamwork, and most mobile defenses your team is left sitting there twiddling their thumbs while everythings frozen including their own bullets

[(PSN)BOSS_TPH76]

10 hours ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

so was Chromas Vex Calculations, DE tends to ignore anything that could cause trouble until it actually does.

And that wasn't a problem either. 

DE has a tends to nerf the player side of combat so they can continue to ignore the glaring shortcomings of the enemy side of combat and the fundamental issues with the games mechanics. It is a bandaid that is holding the game back. 

Edited May 17, 2018 by (PS4)BOSS_TPH76

[DjKaplis]

On 2018-05-15 at 10:58 PM, (XB1)Thang Hung said:

Unfortunately you have it completely wrong. With out that Trinity your group would not have made it half as far as you did. Likely a quarter of the way at most. Trust me that Trinity does not want to be starring at the floor jumping in one place. Be thankful for that Trinity you will not be seeing the C rotation of the rewards pool without her. 

Which brings us right back to the root of the problem. Fix spawning, AI, and Efficiency as a whole and the Trinity will nerf herself. Trust me she is even more bored than you are.  

True..same goes for every player who has to spam abilities just to kill enemies fast enough for efficiency. Like equinox, I love playing her but definitely not the maim spammer. Slowquinox with snipers or some other strong weapons or dualityquinox is much more fun.

[DjKaplis]

On 2018-05-16 at 1:02 AM, --Q--Winged-Menace said:

Making the proper build requires a lot of effort, including formas, specific mods and min-maxing can also involve a riven (ie, more grinding). Also, if you miss a jump and explode the castanas (or you have no shields) you are instantly dead. In conclusion, it does requires skill.

 

This is total bull..t tho. It requires almost no effort and almost no skill. It's efficient but totally lame and boring way to play.  Everyone who has played that build knows that. 

5 hours ago, N64Gamefreak said:

Thank you for this suggestion.  Works great in Index 😁

Yea 😄

Edited May 17, 2018 by DjKaplis

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

Honestly, I'd rather teams not make it as far as they do if it means depending on cheesy techniques to do it. If you're not able to do it without that kind of play style then either the content needs work, or you're just not that good yet.

Things in this game would be fixed SO much faster if DE looked at the numbers after a month and realized no one was able to go as far as they expected and the participation in that content was falling off. When players start using those kind of mechanics DE goes "Well, this was a success. Look how much players are doing in this content and with such success!"

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

It's one of the most useless mods in the game...

Wouldn't the better solution be to fix the problem that is requiring that play style?

Also...Trinity definitely needs a rework of her abilities in general anyway.

[Birdframe_Prime]

I ... surprisingly for me... find myself on the side of the people wanting this aspect of Trinity fixed, not because of its use in Onslaught or anywhere else, but because it genuinely feels like the exploits of the older systems we had years ago.

Link transfers damage taken onto enemies while reducing the actual damage you take, this works absolutely fine for damage from enemies, because enemies do not scale their damage to more than their actual effective health at any time.. If you're using Link, Aviator and Blessing to reduce your self-damage taken, then Link should only be able to work with that reduced damage you took, not the original damage of the weapon.

I feel that this is similar to the way Trinity used to be able to self-damage and cast Blessing and Link to become a 99.9% damage reduction tank, DE didn't think that function was in line with their other damage reduction functions that they have in game, and changed it to a percentage based on Strength, balanced with the damage reduction of Link to ensure that Trinity stayed fairly tanky with over 93% damage reduction, but not able to face-tank the entire game the way she used to.

If Trinity only transferred over the reduced damage from Self Damage, specifically and only that part, instead of the total damage before reduction, this wouldn't have any effect on regular gameplay, just remove the particular self-damage exploit of the current ability.

But when all's said and done...

Trin needs a full quality-of-life overhaul on her kit, because people keep having to come up with these ridiculous niche builds, rather than being able to use direct abilities to affect enemies (and no, I don't mean that Trin should deal damage, I mean things like more effective CC, more actual buffs, or enemy debuffs, or even more direct healing). If Energy Vampire didn't lock a single enemy in place, but instead provided a wide area stun/stagger/animation that lasted five seconds (enough time to use Life Support) and mark enemies to drop Energy Orbs on death, not only would this keep up the energy flow from the ability, it would provide something she needs, which is a way to actually take a break from taking damage, an Active form of CC. If her 1 still caused enemies to drop Health Orbs on death, but was a cone-of-effect blast that could quick-stun multiple enemies to mark them with Damage Debuff (maybe 25%, so that it could be scaled with Strength to around 50% or so?), then this one would also have a purpose beyond just the support aspect.

Trin could leave a trail of Health and Energy in her wake for all allies to take advantage of with mods like Health or Energy Conversion. Heck, with enough Strength on Trin herself, her 1 could cause affected enemies to have a capped-out 75% damage debuff applied to them and drop a guaranteed Health and Energy Orb on death. Allies with Blessing on them would effectively have Trin's own current 93.5% damage reduction... which could be really useful overall, I feel ^^

And there's a lot more ideas out there...

Trin does need a little update, and that's probably more important than fixing a niche nuke function (or it might actually fix it by proxy).

[Vryheid]

I've seen Link Trinity usage jump up dramatically with the introduction of Onslaught, and while I don't believe she's too broken for that particular game mode (other top tier DPS frames like Equinox and Mesa can match or surpass her damage output) she's still a very low effort, high reward frame. It's how she trivializes other game modes like Index and Defense maps that I find significantly more problematic. Try playing an Index match with a good Trinity player sometime and watch as the enemy team gets vaporized through walls over and over before you even get a chance to shoot at them. Not fun at all to play with, and it's very frustrating how they get credit for way more points and kills than builds which require some degree of aiming or skill. Any frame that can basically force the other players on the team to do little more than stand around with nothing to fire at even in endgame content is unhealthy for the game and should be somewhat nerfed.

[Twilight053]

Both Sanctuary Onslaught spawning and Nuke Trinity needs fixing. Just because one disease is healed doesn't mean the other disease will disappear.

[sixmille]

Le 14/05/2018 à 09:23, Kyryo a dit :

To conclude this weeping post, it is clear that trinity will be nerfed, but not this mod.

in my opinion, they will simply remove self damage from Link. Easy fix, nothing can break, trinity stills own the supports etc etc etc. 

this entire topic does not make sense.

That's the fix that's needed. The other issue right now is that AoE damage is reflected as AoE at the end of each link, that's why it's so game breaking, but I like the no self damage option more for consistency. Harrow can't use self damage to feed his 4, Rhino can't use that to charge his iron skin, so why is trinity an exception?

Also the issue I see with this build isn't with onslaught, even if I leave at the end of wave 1 the second I see someone using this build, it's the index. It's completely risk-free and it turns the game mode into a walking simulator when it should be incredibly more challenging than that.

Edited May 17, 2018 by sixmille

[kapn655321]

Give her a passive to reduce self damage.

fixed.

[AtomicNuclearZarkiel]

So... You want to nerf a very niche build that makes Trinity at least somewhat capable of killing enemies (nowhere near as much as other frames) with her ability?

[Praesagium]

En 14/5/2018 a las 2:19, Kyryo dijo:

Now wipe away those tears. Just because you can't be the star of the show it doesn't mean that you are bad or anything. 

This defines almost every warframe player who wants nerfs.

[sixmille]

Il y a 1 heure, AtomicNuclearZarkiel a dit :

So... You want to nerf a very niche build that makes Trinity at least somewhat capable of killing enemies (nowhere near as much as other frames) with her ability?

"Somewhat"? This is the most energy efficient nuke build. 75 energy for 25s of free nuking, that's insane. No other warframe can do that, and this is why it's the strongest right now.

[W3zeer]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb AtomicNuclearZarkiel:

So... You want to nerf a very niche build that makes Trinity at least somewhat capable of killing enemies (nowhere near as much as other frames) with her ability?

It's not niche anymore, and is absolutly in the top-tier of damage builds atm. The only frame that outdamaged me in onslaught despite me trying to take the top was an Equinox. There are not too many frames left that can deal that amount of damage without line of sight. Sure. you shouldn't play her in movement intensive missions, but defense, MD, survival? She's perfectly viable there. I wont be sad when her nuke is gone, and I'm sure I played her quite a bit more than most ppl 😉

[N64Gamefreak]

In the interest of full disclosure, I'll state that I wouldn't have any issues with a Trinity using the Nuke build in Sanctuary Onslaught: your objective is to kill hordes of enemies as fast as possible, and Link only targets several enemies at a time.  The Nuke build is a problem in a place like the Index: there are only four enemies at a time (excepting Nemes), so it prevents other players from fighting them.  Nuke Trinities usually don't pick up the dropped points either.

[MiraClena]

I will never get the argument of nerfing nuke build because it takes the fun away from teammate. In the east we enjoy the completion of objective more than personal score, so I guess this is a cultural thing. I'm always happy if there is someone complete the objective faster or more efficient than me, because that's the point of the mission.

Also, you can always try to outperform nuke trinity. I have at least 2 builds that works better and easier than a nuke trinity with riven up till wave 8 in ESO. If you really hate them take all the kills, just outperform them, and this is coming from a new player whose just in the game for a month.

Edited May 18, 2018 by MiraClena

[sixmille]

il y a 57 minutes, MiraClena a dit :

I will never get the argument of nerfing nuke build because it takes the fun away from teammate. In the east we enjoy the completion of objective more than personal score, so I guess this is a cultural thing. I'm always happy if there is someone complete the objective faster or more efficient than me, because that's the point of the mission.

Also, you can always try to outperform nuke trinity. I have at least 2 builds that works better and easier than a nuke trinity with riven up till wave 8 in ESO. If you really hate them take all the kills, just outperform them, and this is coming from a new player whose just in the game for a month.

There are two facets to this issue. The first one is that warframe gives the most rewards for the most braindead strategies. There is little difficulty vs reward balance and this is frustrating because that's the kind of design we like and enjoy. The gameplay is great, it would just be infinitely better if it was more difficult to be what you call efficient. A good example is melee right now. Melee offers the most damage, it's AoE, it scales with the melee combo counter (unlike guns), but you don't need to aim and there is no ammo economy: it's the perfect example of warframe rewarding braindead play rather than skill play. 

The second aspect of this problem is that nuke builds are incredibly passive. Now I don't know if that's a cultural thing or not but I don't play action games to be left with nothing to do and to spend 90% of my time looking for something to kill, which is my experience with nuke builds. If I want to play idle games I have my phone for this.

Edited May 18, 2018 by sixmille

[MiraClena]

5 hours ago, sixmille said:

The first one is that warframe gives the most rewards for the most braindead strategies

Every strategy is braindead once it became the meta. There will always be that one strategy that give the most rewards for the least effort done.

5 hours ago, sixmille said:

I don't play action games to be left with nothing to do and to spend 90% of my time looking for something to kill

Your team who is killing everything don't play pub to cater to his teammate. You either outkill them or go get a premade party. Honestly, all these salt looks more like you are jealous of people being efficient no matter how you worded it. It's one thing if trinity castanas is the unbeatable strategy out there, but it is not except in index.

Nuke build will always exist, unless DE remove the ability to increase the AOE of ability. I can easily think of at least 5 frames that works better than trinity castanas in sanctuary (with lower commitment too), and even if you nerf all of them, I can still get more. Be creative.

Edited May 18, 2018 by MiraClena

[Gizogin]

Am I right in thinking that Diamond Skin is required in the Trinity nuke build because it lets you get to 100% radiation resistance in combination with other mods, and therefore you can use the (Sancti) Castanas, since they do pure elemental damage that can be combined into radiation? That would explain why other self-damage weapons aren't used.

As a temporary countermeasure, if you get annoyed by nuke Trinity, I guess you could really ruin their experience by casting Venom Dose or Freeze Force on them.