Nidus vs Oberon: Why Nidus Needs A Bit Of Change

[Prof.549]

1 minute ago, Max7238 said:

I just can't help anyone else.

Play Trin then. You cant make a good support out of every frame. And the fact that you like that frame doesn't give you any "rights" to request a buff/nerf/pizza. Simple as that.

[(PSN)Zelgorath]

3 minutes ago, Max7238 said:

You and others have made this point. You are correct.
Though poorly communicated, my point was that Nidus' heal isn't effective enough for OTHERS for me to ever want to use it. I have a Hema. I can lifesteal to keep myself alive 90% of the time I'm actually in danger, and the other 10%, I can pop the ult. I just can't help anyone else. It's why I never play Rhino. They're selfish tanks with a damage buff and CC. Not really my thing... I say as a Frost Prime main of four years...

Not trying to be funny, but you might want to edit the original post to clarify. People are already trying to say Oberon needs a rework, and that OBVIOUSLY was not the point you were trying to make.

[Kurambik]

I don't think this is all that necessary tbh

[DjKaplis]

No. Just no. You just listed many reasons why Nidus is not like Oberon. And they shouldn't be exactly similar, 2 different frames that are good at different things, sounds perfectly normal.

[Drasiel]

You are comparing apples to oranges here. You are also ignoring the massive cc his larva offers and the fact a linked target also sends out a wave of pain whenever you cast your ground spikes. Having this happen also increases your stack count and blowing up maggots on enemies with your ground spikes also gives you a boost

[Leqesai]

I like to compare the frames for the role they have.

 

Both frames are tanky but Oberon is much less offensive than nidus. The tradeoff here is that oberons kit sets him up to defend and protect while nidus is more about growth and adaption through killing.

 

Nidus has great offensive capability through the synergy in his whole kit.

Oberon has great synergy for defensive capability with two of his abilities and moderate offense with the others. 

It should also be noted that building the supremely tanky Oberon means sacrificing your offensive and support potential.

Nidus gets his manliness regardless of how he is built and doesn't become less offensive when ramping up his heal potential.

[MrTitan123]

You're comparing a paladin playstyle to a hyper-aggressive DPS playstyle. Dude, what?

Another thing, as a Nidus main, I can confidently say he's fine as-is. Oberon is also in a good spot.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Nidus 4 isn’t supposed to be a primary healing ability. It’s a mix of healing spot and maggot spawned that helps you build stacks faster and deal more damage. I love Nidus, he’s a powerful DPS all rounder, but what you’re asking for breaks the balance.

[Darkvramp]

9 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Oberon is actually a pretty solid all 'round frame with a focus on healing and damage reduction.

Solid being the opportune word. The problem is Oberon's Numbers, are just not there. In situations where you need to provide damage reduction to your team, the 300 something armor that he grants is WAY too low, it might make you survive one more shot, but NEVER is it actually a useful amount of armor granted at such a low amount. Secondly his reckoning, while flashy and exciting, is a terrible way to deal damage, or generate hp orbs, or strip armor (or spread blinds).

to make Oberon into a more than "solid" you would need to change the amount of armor granted so that he can support the team in a significant manner, verses a deliberately insignificant one, and be able to strip armor for at base on ONE cast of reckoning, without the need for a SENSELESS synergy with hallowed ground.

[MirageKnight]

9 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

and smite is a decent enough 1 for taking the heat off, with it's knockdown and puncture procs.

It also provides for a measure of damage reduction as well, which can be quite useful. Yes, damage reduction. Smite inflicts Weaken, which will reduce the target's damage output by 30% for 6 seconds.

9 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

On the other hand, Nidus is a survival frame with high damage scaling and low team support.

To be fair, he can provide some nice CC with his 2, although that's more a side effect than anything else. Nidus can also provide a decent area heal with his 4....although the area heal is extremely restricted in terms of range and really only benefits Nidus. That said, your description is pretty accurate.

Something interesting I noticed is that Nidus doesn't do all that well in groups with tile-clearing nukers on small maps, and for the simple reason that Nidus needs enemies to build stacks and increase power. That's really difficult to do when you have a Maimnox, a Quake-spammer, or a Spore-fiend in the group killing things faster than your Larva can grab them.

8 hours ago, (PS4)Zelgorath said:

Nidus is an Infested Juggernaut, meant to plow through foes and become more powerful in doing so, like a perpetual engine. Oberon is based on the idea of a Paladin. Decent, but not amazing heals. The ability to crowd control foes. The ability to protect allies. He does all of these and does them well.

My point is that comparing them is simply wrong. Different archetypes, different play styles.

Agreed and well said.

[TastyTaro]

13 часов назад, Max7238 сказал:

OBERON is a weak frame? Oberon. The guy who can dunk every enemy in a radius and strip 60% armor, prevent any and all status effects, heal for 80HP per second, deal damage based on enemy max HP, and has infinite range buffs... Is a weak sauce frame? Really? Seriously?

yeah pretty much, i don't need heals, armor buffs and this jazz because i play Mesa on starchart. And PoE? i play Trinity or Rhino both of which are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better choice than Oberon.

13 часов назад, Max7238 сказал:

The ideal setup for Eidolons is Trinity, Harrow, Volt, Oberon.

then you have much to learn.

[TastyTaro]

13 часов назад, -.SP.-G43riel сказал:

Really ? thats the frame that i use for 99% of things

personal preference, i do 95% of things with Mesa, 4% with Nekros and 1% with Ivara.

[-.SP.-G43riel]

1 hour ago, Kel_Silonius said:

personal preference, i do 95% of things with Mesa, 4% with Nekros and 1% with Ivara.

you just answered it yourself why it doesnt need rework

it IS indeed personal preference, so i dont get the whole "needs rework" for something that you dont play nor like

[Max7238]

7 hours ago, Leqesai said:

I like to compare the frames for the role they have.

 

Both frames are tanky but Oberon is much less offensive than nidus. The tradeoff here is that oberons kit sets him up to defend and protect while nidus is more about growth and adaption through killing.

 

Nidus has great offensive capability through the synergy in his whole kit.

Oberon has great synergy for defensive capability with two of his abilities and moderate offense with the others. 

It should also be noted that building the supremely tanky Oberon means sacrificing your offensive and support potential.

Nidus gets his manliness regardless of how he is built and doesn't become less offensive when ramping up his heal potential.

Pretty much my perspective too, yeah... Only, building a tanky Oberon and an offensive one are one in the same. 200% power strength on him doubles as 400 extra armor and 80HP per second on the heal. With Oberon Prime, Primed Flow, over 600 energy on mine, that heal isn't going anywhere anytime soon once I get ramped up. With Nidus, even approaching 100 stacks, he just never feels as effective. Granted, Nidus' 1 FAR out-damages Oberon's 4 once Nidus has enough stacks and both are a 200% power build, so I understand everyone saying he's offensive, but I still can't wrap my head around people criticizing Oberon. In any way, really. He's got it all, and he's extremely effective. I just wish the same feeling applied, uniformly, to all frames, and Nidus happened to be my focus here. I'm a Frost main. I play frames that are tanky and when I use something besides Frost, it's because I want a different flavor of support. I don't need abilities to deal my damage - I feel like that's what our arsenal of weapons are for - so as a result, I see more engaging gameplay from Warframe than the "press 4 to win"s of the game.

I WILL go back and edit the OP to try and mitigate this, though, since people definitely misunderstood the purpose.

[Dreamforger]

What a long wall of nonsense.

Oberon is in a good spot without being grossly OP or inactive in gameplay, and still fun. 

And you are comparing oranges and pickles here. And ofc forgetting Nidus passives for ranking up, high health, infinite scaling, insane CC etc.

infact one could argue that Frost cannot heal other people like Nidus, maybe frosts avelanch or globe should give a healing over time and a overshield?

And then there is trinity! She got two heals! And one is full health for all squard members within range! 

 

So well calm ya horse and just enjoy the game. You are not the healer as nidus, no more than inaros (who got two healing abilities), and still less selfish than harrow.

[Max7238]

2 minutes ago, Dreamforger said:

What a long wall of nonsense.

Oberon is in a good spot without being grossly OP or inactive in gameplay, and still fun. 

And you are comparing oranges and pickles here. And ofc forgetting Nidus passives for ranking up, high health, infinite scaling, insane CC etc.

infact one could argue that Frost cannot heal other people like Nidus, maybe frosts avelanch or globe should give a healing over time and a overshield?

And then there is trinity! She got two heals! And one is full health for all squard members within range! 

 

So well calm ya horse and just enjoy the game. You are not the healer as nidus, no more than inaros (who got two healing abilities), and still less selfish than harrow.

I feel like you took offense somewhere in there, but... Frost already has an augment to Avalanche that adds a shield, and Trinity is a DEDICATED healer, not a more multi-purpose frame like Nidus or Oberon.

[Dreamforger]

4 minutes ago, Max7238 said:

I feel like you took offense somewhere in there, but... Frost already has an augment to Avalanche that adds a shield, and Trinity is a DEDICATED healer, not a more multi-purpose frame like Nidus or Oberon.

Took no personal offence just think that this was.. well nonsense xD Frist got an argument but this is not overshield ir healing.

Nidus is a tank no a multi-tool imo.

You are allowed to your own opinion, but in my opinion you are see it from the weong perspective.

And for the other replies, I might not be the only one thinking that.

Think a reread to the abilities and frame might help you get an understanding of what role they would fill.

[Max7238]

And I tend to think that a narrow view of the tools at your disposal only limits your potential.
To each their own, I suppose. I've never been a fan of "optimizing" things. Part of the beauty of Warframe is our ability to modify every bit of our arsenal to suit our needs.

[(PSN)SolidInstinct_]

They're both two completely different Warframe's that do completely different things, which is just fine. 

In my opinion, I find that Nidus starts to shine in endless missions (since there's really no point in building stacks in missions like mobile defense, exterminate, capture etc.)

In terms of team play, Nidus' abilities generally revolves around him rather than the squad, the healing he has is just a nice bonus for him. 

 

Oberon is more of a team player. In all honestly, there is never an instance where Oberon isn't helpful to the squad. Status immunity, fairly decent offense skill, reducing enemy damage by 30%, decent CC, shredding armour, the only Warframe that provides a strong HoT and a flat armour boost at infinite range and pretty much lasts forever, synergies really well with other Warframe's and a nice stat boost to pets. 

You can pretty much take Oberon anywhere and do just fine as he is suitable for almost any mission types. Sure, both 'Frames could use some tweaks/QoL changes to their kit, but they are both fantastic 'Frames right now. 

[-.SP.-G43riel]

2 hours ago, Max7238 said:

And I tend to think that a narrow view of the tools at your disposal only limits your potential.
To each their own, I suppose. I've never been a fan of "optimizing" things. Part of the beauty of Warframe is our ability to modify every bit of our arsenal to suit our needs.

but this is a TEAM game, you're not supossed to be good in all things.

You're either versatile/all around like oberon who does a bit of everything but not as great as Trinity whose main focus is healing. 

Or  another example like Ash who has damage and invisibily, but not as good as Loki nor Excalibur.

You have tools at your disposal you only need to use the one that suits you the most and your style as your modify them. 

Like doing a frost full range or doing a duration one

[SenorClipClop]

On 2018-05-16 at 5:21 AM, Max7238 said:

The point here was simply that Oberon has an extremely effective, infinite range heal, and Nidus has a much less effective, stationary one.

The picture you posted above this literally shows you that Renewal has a range of 25 metres. I'm not sure if you're wording is off or you're recalling old Renewal which did have infinite Range (though wasn't as good), but you might wanna fix this.

[Windy_Wind]

my man, Oberon is a support frame, Nidus is a dps frame...you can't have Nidus do dps and heal at the same time...that's broken.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Windy_Wind

[TastyTaro]

15 часов назад, -.SP.-G43riel сказал:

so i dont get the whole "needs rework" for something that you dont play nor like

mmmm... you know i see your point considering that Mk.1 weapons are enough to do anything on a starchart. oberon just... doesn't have anything that can make him... efficient? viable? and yes these two concepts are highly subjective but still. Even his passive kinda... yeah. All his buffs are rather mediocre, his heals as well. Small heal over time versus. restore? restore wins. I hope you see my point.

[NezuHimeSama]

On 2018-05-16 at 8:26 AM, Darkvramp said:

Solid being the opportune word. The problem is Oberon's Numbers, are just not there. In situations where you need to provide damage reduction to your team, the 300 something armor that he grants is WAY too low, it might make you survive one more shot, but NEVER is it actually a useful amount of armor granted at such a low amount. Secondly his reckoning, while flashy and exciting, is a terrible way to deal damage, or generate hp orbs, or strip armor (or spread blinds).

to make Oberon into a more than "solid" you would need to change the amount of armor granted so that he can support the team in a significant manner, verses a deliberately insignificant one, and be able to strip armor for at base on ONE cast of reckoning, without the need for a SENSELESS synergy with hallowed ground.

Reckoning does 1250 for first hit and 1875 base damage on second hit, which is pretty solid. Having the possibility to blind is honestly a bad thing IMO, since it stops enemy flows, but armor reduction is just a bonus if you get it. On top of that, throwing down a couple Hallowed Grounds can actually deal some pretty solid DOT anyway.

As a support frame, Oberon provides a very, very broad scope of benefits, and does an adequate job of them. It's not going to replace a niche frame, but that would be stupid. He already has several niches in the game (including a middle of the road wide-area-DPS, proc protection, damage buff, and healing for more advanced eidolon farms, and a mistake guard for more casual play), has solid survivability, and is generally pretty easy to use.

[NezuHimeSama]

23 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

It also provides for a measure of damage reduction as well, which can be quite useful. Yes, damage reduction. Smite inflicts Weaken, which will reduce the target's damage output by 30% for 6 seconds.

To be fair, he can provide some nice CC with his 2, although that's more a side effect than anything else. Nidus can also provide a decent area heal with his 4....although the area heal is extremely restricted in terms of range and really only benefits Nidus. That said, your description is pretty accurate.

Something interesting I noticed is that Nidus doesn't do all that well in groups with tile-clearing nukers on small maps, and for the simple reason that Nidus needs enemies to build stacks and increase power. That's really difficult to do when you have a Maimnox, a Quake-spammer, or a Spore-fiend in the group killing things faster than your Larva can grab them.

I did say puncture procs though...

And yeah, Nidus' support is more for self interest than party interest. His CC requires LOS from the target, and is more for crowding enemies to gain stacks than to stun the room or provide a continuous defensive "do not enter" field.(great for explosives, too) His area heal isn't really for more than topping people up and augmenting his own healing.