Wanna talk about Trinity + Castanas?

[SmoothPanic]

Instead of removing the entire mechanic, have Suicide Trin take some damage. 100% damage reduction is what it broken. Increase the risk of the strategy so the player has higher risk-reward. And or as mentioned earlier here, add diminished damage at greater range. Simple.

[Voltage]

3 hours ago, Klavinmour said:

Except as stated by DE Link was never intended to work with self damage.
You can't buff Rhino with self damage.
You can't buff Harrow with self damage.
They are removing self damage from Nidus and Nekros at the same time as Trinity this week.

The ability isn't even being nerfed, it's intended purpose as a tanking ability still exists just as strong as it was before self damage is being removed,

Maybe if you stopped looking for ways to remove the gameplay from the game, DE wouldn't need to "nerf" horrible builds like this out of existence.

Oh no, but Chroma doesn't exist. If you want consistency, than list ALL of the Warframes that benefit from self damage, not just the ones that support your argument.

Many players seek the easiest route. After 3000+ hours, why would I create more work to achieve my fun in the game? Don't blame the efficient mindset of a percentage of the playerbase because DE doesn't fix core mechanics and band aids the "problem". This "nerf nuke frames" has existed since the days of Viver and Draco. DE could easily fix this issue with massive overhauls to affinity and matchmaking. Instead, DE has been chopping down anything that exceeds their "intention".

It is ironic people call efficient players "lazy" when the real lazy people are the ones that would rather nerf one setup (Trinity, Saryn, Telos Boltace, Simulor, etc) than fix the problem.

Edited June 5, 2018 by --Q--Voltage

[-.SP.-G43riel]

2 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

 

It is ironic people call people who take the efficient gameplay route "lazy" when the real lazy people are the ones that would rather nerf one setup (Trinity, Saryn, Telos Boltace, Simulor, etc) than fix the problem.

no... ironic is
having people who knew they were exploiting builds and using cheesy strats (disguised as effeciency) complaining about having those exploits fixed

[Voltage]

1 hour ago, -.SP.-G43riel said:

no... ironic is
having people who knew they were exploiting builds and using cheesy strats (disguised as effeciency) complaining about having those exploits fixed

I am not trying to defend Trinity. I could care less. This game is so easy I can jump to any other setup. What is sad is that this is not the beginning nor the end of this vicious cycle. I am just using my experiences over the last three years to show players that DE will just jump to the next Warframe/weapon setup that becomes popular. I will just go play Titanfall 2, Rainbow Six: Siege, Dauntless, and more while gear is ruined because of a problem DE has ignored for years.

Edited June 5, 2018 by --Q--Voltage

[Volkeris]

7 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

I am not trying to defend Trinity. I could care less. This game is so easy I can jump to any other setup. What is sad is that this is not the beginning nor the end of this vicious cycle. I am just using my experiences over the last three years to show players that DE will just jump to the next Warframe/weapon setup that becomes popular. I will just go play Titanfall 2, Rainbow Six: SIege, Dauntless, and more while gear is ruined because of a problem DE has ignored for years.

Exaggeration at it's finest.

[(PSN)TR3--VR]

Last night Rebecca posted the following comment in this subforum:

>[DE]Rebecca said:
We are going to change just that - no self-damage through Link. We are going to apply this rule to Trinity, Nidus, and Nekros for consistency.

As a serious Nidus fan, I ask that you please reconsider rolling out this change. I'm sure it is simpler from a coding perspective, but it **cannot** be justified on the basis of consistency. Nidus's Parasitic Link connects to a single target and simply cannot be used or exploited in the same way as Trinity's Link, which is the issue you are trying to address. It transfers damage only once, to one target, and generally after a long duration cast. Applying the same nerf to Parasitic Link isn't consistent -- it is unfair and unwarranted.

Parasitic Link is used at a much greater cost to the frame (a mutation stack that needed to be built) and is a key element of the Nidus playstyle, which is one of the very few in the game that still rewards skilled casting and battlefield management as opposed to crashing headlong into hordes or nuking. Singling out stronger enemies, neutralizing them and then eventually dropping collected damage on them is a big part of his kit.

It's also unclear how the proposed change will actually function. If the damage isn't accumulated and transferred, does it simply disappear? Or does that mean Nidus does not get any damage reduction, gutting the skill and all of his survivability? If the latter, he would be effectively prevented from playing in high level content. It would be a devastating nerf.

Bottom line is that he doesn't deserve a nerf at all - Self Damage Trinity has nothing to do with him. SDT has been around for months and has dominated Onslaught since it rolled out; there is no reason to rush this now.

As an aside -- on the subject of Trin, I agree with the many commentators that think the nerf to Link self damage is heavy handed and unfair to the rest of her kit. Self Damage Trin needs to be reined in or stopped entirely, but there are plenty of other thoughtful and deliberate changes that could achieve this result. Capping the stacking resistance mods (or making them multiplicative instead of additive) or preventing link from transferring damage to additional targets after the initial 7 targets are killed would stop the off label use (AoE map clearing) without negatively affecting her intended kit (support and tanking). I'm sure the usage data tells DE that bless/link support trins are not exactly running amok in regular mission play.

[-.SP.-G43riel]

12 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

I am not trying to defend Trinity. I could care less. This game is so easy I can jump to any other setup. What is sad is that this is not the beginning nor the end of this vicious cycle. I am just using my experiences over the last three years to show players that DE will just jump to the next Warframe/weapon setup that becomes popular. I will just go play Titanfall 2, Rainbow Six: SIege, Dauntless, and more while gear is ruined because of a problem DE has ignored for years.

wanna know whats weird? i play since 2013, you since 2015, yet you have more posts in the forums than i have in hours of gameplay
just saying, it looks like you spend way way more time complaining than just playing

[--Q--Kyl0Ren]

23 minutes ago, -.SP.-G43riel said:

no... ironic is
having people who knew they were exploiting builds and using cheesy strats (disguised as effeciency) complaining about having those exploits fixed

Do you know what an exploit means? And who is preventing you beside your lack of knowledge to use those builds? If you think all cheesy strats are exploits you are sorely mistaken. Is it an exploit to CC the entire map in a mobile defense? Ok then nerf all CC frames. This is because of the way DE designed the interaction between diamond skin and aviator. Its math, that's overlooked at every turn in this game. The problem is not trinity. But apparently you also did not do your homework and just blindly agreeing with whatever is being said by the devs. If you do not enjoy efficient gameplay, its not an issue, you can slowly kill 1 enemy at a time and do a 10 hour defense run for 50 waves. But do not go suggesting everyone has an issue with this type of gameplay and generalize it. Nerfing DPS frames will only make the grind worse and at one point down the line these same people are gonna complain about the nerfs and the tedious grind wondering whose fault it was it became so bad.

Edited June 5, 2018 by --Q--Kyl0Ren

[Modeaus]

1 minute ago, -.SP.-G43riel said:

wanna know whats weird? i play since 2013, you since 2015, yet you have more posts in the forums than i have in hours of gameplay
just saying, it looks like you spend way way more time complaining than just playing

Or it took him 2yrs less to get a handle on some pretty basic stuff.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

No, DE doesn't do moderation. When nerfs happen expect it to destroy everything.

[--Q--Kyl0Ren]

6 minutes ago, -.SP.-G43riel said:

wanna know whats weird? i play since 2013, you since 2015, yet you have more posts in the forums than i have in hours of gameplay
just saying, it looks like you spend way way more time complaining than just playing

Really? thats your argument? He has more in game hours than you do even though you have been playing since 2013. Shows how much you present actual facts in a discussion. What does any of this have to do with providing constructive feedback about the trin or even frame nerfs in general?

Edited June 5, 2018 by --Q--Kyl0Ren

[Voltage]

16 minutes ago, Volkeris said:

Exaggeration at it's finest.

This game is insanely easy in nature. The last time I was challenged in this game was figuring out how to do The Jordas Verdict when it released to solve the puzzles. That was 951 days ago to this day. I started the new player experience over with the release of Specters of the Rail, and now I am MR 25 in less than 500 hours. The only challenge that exists in this game is opening a google tab to learn mechanics you aren't familiar with.

Likewise, this is not the beginning nor the end. What I mean by this is the trend of nerfing gear that is excelling in areas at a pace DE does not enjoy. Excalibur, Mag, Mesa, Saryn, Simulor, Tonkor, Telos Boltace, Mirage, Rhino, Limbo, and now Trinity. How much gear needs to be nerfed where some of them are unusable to have people understand the root problems this game has. Matchmaking and Affinity Distribution would have prevented every example I have listed aside from Mirage. Every, single, one. Please elaborate how I am exaggerating and provide proper evidence rather than a shallow claim.

Look at my profile. Look at my raid stats. Look at my post history. I used Trinity. I have 200,000 kills and millions of XP. If you notice though, I play mostly Nova and the content I enjoy doesn't require such a Warframe setup. I login these days just to keep my tally going on the Tribute system, and to interact with the community I moderate for. I could care less about Trinity, but I do know, for a fact, that it doesn't stop at Trinity. Make self damage consistent and fix damage reduction calculations.

Edited June 5, 2018 by --Q--Voltage

[GinKenshin]

33 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

Oh no, but Chroma doesn't exist. If you want consistency, than list ALL of the Warframes that benefit from self damage, not just the ones that support your argument.

Many players seek the easiest route. After 3000+ hours, why would I create more work to achieve my fun in the game? Don't blame the efficient mindset of a percentage of the playerbase because DE doesn't fix core mechanics and band aids the "problem". This "nerf nuke frames" has existed since the days of Viver and Draco. DE could easily fix this issue with massive overhauls to affinity and matchmaking. Instead, DE has been chopping down anything that exceeds their "intention".

It is ironic people call efficient players "lazy" when the real lazy people are the ones that would rather nerf one setup (Trinity, Saryn, Telos Boltace, Simulor, etc) than fix the problem.

and what proof do you have that when DE does these changes successfully (kek) that people would stop being 'efficient'? 

people will ALWAYS try to be efficient. that means doing the least bit of input to get the biggest output. these can be 'fun' but not for long, these are game killers, this kinda of 'tactic' will kill your experience. the fun will run out then all you're going for is the rewards, but you have so many already so why play the game? 

safe to say DE ditched chroma since he had a lot of heat with his recent changes which were balanced, removing this wouldn't look well, although I think it's safe to remove it since his 3rd is recastable now so you can keep your buffs. and as they said, trinity is a support frame, link is a defensive and tanking ability, it's not meant to deal dmg. find more ways to play a frame is fine and dandy, but don't make an oversight into a mechanic 

DE isn't nerfing nuke frames, they basically want you to make more input to get the same output you had. saryn still does the same thing, just work for it 

and do you really expect them not to take the easy way? they've been doing this for as long as the game been live, 'the next big thing' is always priority. do I hate it? yes. should they still do it? kinda. their problem is that they didn't find the balance yet but that's another issue 

 

so yeah, DE will keep being 'lazy', very 'efficient' frames will keep getting changed so you do the work to get the job done accordingly, that's how it should be done. changing game systems and mechanics wouldn't change anything since like you said, players will always go for easy rewards, rewards will always be a part of this game, with rewards come efficient ways to get these rewards faster 

if your idea of changing game mechanics is to turn this game into something that doesn't rely on rewards and isn't a looter then......you get the point 

 

23 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

I will just go play Titanfall 2, Rainbow Six: SIege, Dauntless, and more 

Spoiler

awwww, well I know for sure your fanboys and Q mates will be sad to hear this, who they gonna upvote now? 

 

[EinheriarJudith]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)willyspub said:

~snip~

this has no negative impact on her kit. link is still 75% DR, damage redirection, bless is still a 50m (unless using vazarin) health/shield full heal with 75% DR and energy vamp still does what it does etc. her kits intended use will be intact no matter how you feel about DE fixing some very broken mechanic.

[.Yes]

3 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

DE isn't nerfing nuke frames, they basically want you to make more input to get the same output you had. saryn still does the same thing, just work for it 

 

good to know, call me when your exterminates take 15 mins cuz everyone's crying nerf nerf nerf.

 

When was the last time a rework literally resulted in reworking the frame? When was the last time a mediocre frame came out better after a "rework"

and why is DE "reworking" frames that tend to get a lot of attention? Why are frames like SARYN getting a rework when other frames DON'T EVEN HAVE A PURPOSE?

 

[Voltage]

6 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

awwww, well I know for sure your fanboys and Q mates will be sad to hear this, who they gonna upvote now? 

I was intrigued to see your point of view and explain myself, but your disrespect doesn't warrant my time. If you can't respect the Official Warframe Forum Guidelines, than your point of discussion is far from valuable to this platform.

[SenorClipClop]

2 hours ago, --END--Rikutatis said:

But at least from my perspective, I see DE balancing content around sortie-ESO levels, which is 80 to low 100s, and that has been slowly taking away playstyles that were viable for high level enemies before.

It's not just in ESO that Castanas Trin is bonkers. Literally any enemy-dense mission makes the setup work: Defense, Survival, Excavation, Interception, most Infested missions. It's not really the level that matters either. The thing that's bothersome about CastTrin is that she's dealing high AoE damage through walls, and she's doing this by avoiding combat altogether and shooting at her own feet. That's not intended gameplay, and it doesn't matter what level or game mode it's in.

[Xzorn]

11 hours ago, MunsuLight said:

Shhhh .. We dont want them to nerf DR frame ... or the Ancient Healer Specter  ..

 

I don't mind when they fix actual mechanic bugs like Blessing stacking with itself.

It's the rules of exception that have started to bug me.

A game has rules that both players and enemies need to follow. Damage 2.0 has always been flawed but instead of addressing the core mechanics that create these problems they make up new rules like Nox, Nullifiers, Eidolons or Damage buffs being additive when they've been Multiplicative because they can no longer control the game with the core rules and there's  no other way to create an adversary at this point.

When they create too many rules of exception the players lose alternative options to approach a problem. This is made glaringly apparent with Eidolons where players generally use one gun (Lanka) one damage type (Radiation) with a very typical group setup and don't generally waver from it because Eidolons ignore status effects, ignores CC, ignore most abilities and so the player has few options left.

[SenorClipClop]

31 minutes ago, (PS4)willyspub said:

As a serious Nidus fan, I ask that you please reconsider rolling out this change. I'm sure it is simpler from a coding perspective, but it **cannot** be justified on the basis of consistency. Nidus's Parasitic Link connects to a single target and simply cannot be used or exploited in the same way as Trinity's Link, which is the issue you are trying to address. It transfers damage only once, to one target, and generally after a long duration cast. Applying the same nerf to Parasitic Link isn't consistent -- it is unfair and unwarranted.

Wait, are you saying you actually relied on self-damaging, as a Nidus, to deal damage as Nidus? Please tell me you weren't doing that.

[GinKenshin]

3 minutes ago, --Q--Phanini said:

good to know, call me when your exterminates take 15 mins cuz everyone's crying nerf nerf nerf.

 

When was the last time a rework literally resulted in reworking the frame? When was the last time a mediocre frame came out better after a "rework"

and why is DE "reworking" frames that tend to get a lot of attention? Why are frames like SARYN getting a rework when other frames DON'T EVEN HAVE A PURPOSE?

 

geez, this thread is getting swarmed with Qs lol 

 

well, the true 'reworking' would be stuff like excalibur, limbo, atlas...etc. basically if they add a new ability or 'drastically' change a frame then it's a rework, most of the 'reworks' are mere QoLs and tweaks, but the term is thrown around and become mainstream so...yea. also excalibur, frost, altas, these are just the ones I use but they came out better than before....ofc it's subjective 

 

well that's easy, because these frames are the worst offenders of using overlooked mechanics and dare I say exploits, and like I said, giving the most output for the least input, and yes that is why ESO is dependent on how much you kill, it's a lab and the frames and us are the rats 

safe to say these frames' time will come, DE talked about titania and wukong on the line next so here's that, everything will be touched but they need to prioritize which I agree it's something they ain't good at 

 

4 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

I was intrigued to see your point of view and explain myself, but your disrespect doesn't warrant my time. If you can't respect the Official Warframe Forum Guidelines, than your point of discussion is far from valuable to this platform.

well, let this be known that I spared the forums one of your explanations so I'll take that as a win ;3 

and crying about nerfs is valuable? not seeing them as changes? seeing the devs PoV and the bigger picture? 

[(PSN)LordBartimus]

10 minutes ago, --Q--Phanini said:

When was the last time a rework literally resulted in reworking the frame? When was the last time a mediocre frame came out better after a "rework"

Limbo. One of the best CC in the game if you aren't being a troll. Chroma. He can keep his survivability up now instead of trying to survive long enough to rebuild charges. Ash. I mean, only Blaxestorm got reworked but now it's better than ever. Hydroid. He isn't just useful for farming anymore and is actually a decent cc and damage-support. Come on folks. Yes trinity is gonna get a nerf on her nuke setup. Go into ESO with Bless trin, equinox, saryn and a speedva. Life will be fine. It's the purpose of all these overhauls coming to the game recently - a more active style of playing that isn't reliant on staying in one spot. If you are so butthurt you want to go play something else, be free. No one is stopping you from playing with our lord and savior Tachanka. 

[GinKenshin]

1 minute ago, (PS4)LordBartimus said:

Limbo. One of the best CC in the game if you aren't being a troll. Chroma. He can keep his survivability up now instead of trying to survive long enough to rebuild charges. Ash. I mean, only Blaxestorm got reworked but now it's better than ever. Hydroid. He isn't just useful for farming anymore and is actually a decent cc and damage-support. Come on folks. Yes trinity is gonna get a nerf on her nuke setup. Go into ESO with Bless trin, equinox, saryn and a speedva. Life will be fine. It's the purpose of all these overhauls coming to the game recently - a more active style of playing that isn't reliant on staying in one spot. If you are so butthurt you want to go play something else, be free. No one is stopping you from playing with our lord and savior Tachanka. 

just ignore the Qs, you'll avoid unnecessary headaches that way 

I hear they're moving to daultless, lotus help the daultless community XD 

but yea, now a Q will reply with "well what about the frames that got worse after the 'rework' like ember...etc. don't just talk about stuff that helps your arguments!" 

 

[-dicht.Goko-]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)LordBartimus said:

Limbo. One of the best CC in the game if you aren't being a troll. Chroma. He can keep his survivability up now instead of trying to survive long enough to rebuild charges. Ash. I mean, only Blaxestorm got reworked but now it's better than ever. Hydroid. He isn't just useful for farming anymore and is actually a decent cc and damage-support. Come on folks. Yes trinity is gonna get a nerf on her nuke setup. Go into ESO with Bless trin, equinox, saryn and a speedva. Life will be fine. It's the purpose of all these overhauls coming to the game recently - a more active style of playing that isn't reliant on staying in one spot. If you are so butthurt you want to go play something else, be free. No one is stopping you from playing with our lord and savior Tachanka. 

People still complain about limbo, despite the fact that it's fairly easy to not have your playstyle cramped even if you're in a squad with a limbo who doesn't know how to use their kit to the best of their ability. 

 

[-dicht.Goko-]

Just now, GinKenshin said:

just ignore the Qs, you'll avoid unnecessary headaches that way 

I hear they're moving to daultless, lotus help the daultless community XD 

but yea, now a Q will reply with "well what about the frames that got worse after the 'rework' like ember...etc. don't just talk about stuff that helps your arguments!" 

 

This is excellent advice!

When someone makes an argument, insult them. If they raise a valid point, ignore the point (either by using hyperbolae or by gross exaggeration) and insult them more! 

Repeat until you are the loudest voice in the thread. Doesn't matter if you're right or wrong, the loudest person wins the argument. 

[GinKenshin]

4 minutes ago, -dicht.Goko- said:

This is excellent advice!

When someone makes an argument, insult them. If they raise a valid point, ignore the point (either by using hyperbolae or by gross exaggeration) and insult them more! 

Repeat until you are the loudest voice in the thread. Doesn't matter if you're right or wrong, the loudest person wins the argument. 

one made an argument, I countered with mine. yes I made a little fun but that's just how I am, if it'll come back to bite me then so be it, I accept it 

then another guy made points which are valid I guess, but I presented a valid answers to their question

also what you said is kinda true, the loudest voice does win the argument which is a sad thing, but that doesn't mean the faintest(?) voice is on the right. I do agree this thread has been derailed so maybe it's time, sad to see it go ;-; 

final note, I think you'll fit right in with the Qs, maybe apply to them? they're spreading (like a certain infested enemy) to another game so there's your chance ;D