Does WHERE items were leveled correlate to skill?

[(PSN)supernova_girlie]

Does  it WHERE a tenno has leveled their warframes and weapons correlate to their skill level?

Edit: That was like a cross between Does where a tenno... and does it matter where a tenno...

I ask this because I noticed the occasional "high MR Draco/Hydron noob" comment. Yet, I also notice the occasional "Vets go for the most efficient method" comment as well. What's your opinion on the matter?

I feel that there is no correlation between how a tenno levels items and their skill level. I spent two months on Draco leveling everything I could because I was stuck on the MR11 test. I feel I learned a lot on Draco, like how to survive with a rank 0 warframe against level 40+ eximus enemies, capture zones even when a horde is storming me, etc. Draco forced me to understand how my warframe abilities worked and it forced me to do so fast! Hydron is the new "affinity" spot and now I just go to it if there's a weapon I hate and just want to get the leveling process over. I argue that going to latest affinity hot spot for a new player is a great idea, because they're being exposed to the mechanics and dynamics of higher level enemies. Also, they are able to see how more experienced players deal with high level enemies.

If not the affinity hot spot, where? I sometimes do void fissure survivals and take something to level up with me for the free affinity booster on the later waves. I don't see how this would make me more skilled. Anyway, what's your opinion? Also, let's keep it clean: If we disagree with something, explain why instead of insulting each other.

Edited June 6, 2018 by (PS4)supernova_girlie

[aligatorno]

It does matter where but also how, some people use the term "draco babies" too lightly, but the term itself holds value. If someone goes to a affinity hotspot and just to leech of other player's affinity without learning how to use the item in question during or after it, then he's a 'draco baby' in the sense that he levels just to level, not to understand the game and its mechanics. 

Edited June 6, 2018 by aligatorno

[Brahki]

Well this is hardly a game where you need a high "skill" to play it. People often argue both ways, it certainly can be said that someone who played the game to get to a higher MR compared to someone who used a method like Draco/Hydron/ etc to MR boost would have more actual game knowledge but it hardly matters if you ask me. It's similar in spirit to the argument made when players argue that they want a harder game, but nerfs are apparently pointless as the game is largely PVE.

Truth is no one should really care how someone else got to where they are, if you enjoy playing the slower game or minmaxing your loadouts/play style then you do you. End of the day you should play the way you enjoy the most.

EDIT: The above player has a point, assuming you carry you weight refer to my comment above as to my opinion. But if you join a round knowing you will not be contributing (see: leeching) then i suppose the situation changes.

 

Edited June 6, 2018 by Brahki

[EndermanBeast]

Does WHERE items

 

wat is this?

[Acos]

Mastery Rank of above 5, to me, infers that you've played the game long enough to at least understand its' core mechanics. I wouldn't infer it to mean that you're necessarily out soloing Eidolons or Sorties, but I do infer it to mean that you probably understand how to move around, shoot, and use most of your Warframes powers effectively. You'll probably have bits of spotty or missing information since Warframe is kind of esoteric about a lot of its' own mechanics, but you probably have the basics down. 

Beyond that I wouldn't assume MR to mean much of anything. 

[Pro3Display]

as it was already said: power-leveling weapons/frames without, you guessed it, mastering them devalues your total mastery rank

[(PSN)supernova_girlie]

6 minutes ago, Brahki said:

Well this is hardly a game where you need a high "skill" to play it. People often argue both ways, it certainly can be said that someone who played the game to get to a higher MR compared to someone who used a method like Draco/Hydron/ etc to MR boost would have more actual game knowledge but it hardly matters if you ask me. It's similar in spirit to the argument made when players argue that they want a harder game, but nerfs are apparently pointless as the game is largely PVE.

Truth is no one should really care how someone else got to where they are, if you enjoy playing the slower game or minmaxing your loadouts/play style then you do you. End of the day you should play the way you enjoy the most.

How so? Do you mean like by only playing those maps they will only understand how to deal with that enemy faction? I ask partially because I feel Draco/Hydron could/can teach a player a great deal about the game as long as they're not just sitting there to soak in the affinity. I also ask because I agree that to some degree it holds the player back, because they are dealing with only one enemy faction. For instance, when I awoke from my Draco slumber and visited the Corpus, I couldn't figure out why my usual weapon damage set-ups were not affecting them in the same way they did the Grineer.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

the reason why it's easy to dismiss a old Draco-user as unskilled is because the use of Affinity farms is often done in conjunction with using the old press-4-to-win mechanics that we used to have: Ash's Bladestorm, Mesa's Peacemaker, Saryn's Miasma.. they all used to clear the map at the touch of a single button, and it was pretty much all you'd ever see on Draco, because it was the most efficient way of doing things. some people went there but still played "properly", using weapons and other abilities, but this was the minority, drowned out by a wave of brain-dead button-mashing.

personally I level something just about anywhere and everywhere, including the occasional affinity spot. but unless you're totally dependant on one power, then you're no less skilled than any other player, regardless of where you choose to level.. as for taking newbies there, I avoid doing it because it can teach them bad habits: they won't want to go to any other nodes to see what's going on if they think they can just level on Hydron or Akkad all the time. they can become lazy, and that's something I detest.  I prefer to show them the whole star chart and get them up to speed with everything before showing them the affinity spots.

I'd be lying if I said that I didn't have a couple days where I CBA to level a weapon, but need to get it out the way, and so slog through Akkad for a while. we all get like that at some point, but I prefer to avoid it at all costs, unless I'm with friends.

[Brahki]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)supernova_girlie said:

How so? Do you mean like by only playing those maps they will only understand how to deal with that enemy faction? I ask partially because I feel Draco/Hydron could/can teach a player a great deal about the game as long as they're not just sitting there to soak in the affinity. I also ask because I agree that to some degree it holds the player back, because they are dealing with only one enemy faction. For instance, when I awoke from my Draco slumber and visited the Corpus, I couldn't figure out why my usual weapon damage set-ups were not affecting them in the same way they did the Grineer.

Sort of, keep in mind with those methods you're largely only seeing those two tilesets. And with Hydron, only the one section of the map. When you get to sections of the star chart with infested enemies as the main faction, you'll find the tilesets are much harder to navigate and ill see more often then not i have to wait behind for people in sorties to show them the path through one section of the map, which makes it apparent that they've not spent much time in the area. It's little things that start to add up, not knowing where to go next or not being accustomed to certain gamemodes. I had a large span of time when i first started where i would not go near spy missions because i just did not understand them. Now they're easily one of my favorite sortie missions because of how easy they are to solo.

I'd argue that for things like adding forma, the simple tactics like the two aforementioned affinity hot spots are probably fine but i always try to swap up what i do for my first leveling of a weapon. Otherwise i'd have it fully leveled and modded with very little knowledge of if i'll even enjoy it in more fluid gameplay.

[(PSN)supernova_girlie]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

the reason why it's easy to dismiss a old Draco-user as unskilled is because the use of Affinity farms is often done in conjunction with using the old press-4-to-win mechanics that we used to have: Ash's Bladestorm, Mesa's Peacemaker, Saryn's Miasma.. they all used to clear the map at the touch of a single button, and it was pretty much all you'd ever see on Draco, because it was the most efficient way of doing things. some people went there but still played "properly", using weapons and other abilities, but this was the minority, drowned out by a wave of brain-dead button-mashing.

Guilty! I remember, and it started, I think, with the Gram, I would go into Draco and try out a melee weapon and if it sucked I would leave at wave 5, get my Ash and come back to Draco to Bladestorm the heck out of it. I remember bring the Gram to Draco and hitting one of the beginning Lancers and nothing happened to him.

Yes, you're absolutely right. There was a lot of pres-4-to-win going on there.

[CupcakesMoo]

Usually the only people who care are cancerous elitists who have achieved nothing else in life. 

[(PSN)Eluminary]

Mr25 on ps4 Mr 16 pc never lvled on hydron/Draco on either  I don't mind carrying people but I despise being carried myself, which is often what people did when going to Draco in the past and hydron now, that I believe is where the  disdain comes from.

 

PS4  I largely  leveled weapons speedrunning spy missions. Warframe's I lvl  doing Fissure missions now.   With just the frame and a maxed out melee weapon.  PC atm  the new best exp spot is ESO by a mile,   again I don't like to be carried so I take saryn  and a maxed melee weapon with 2 unranked primary secondary weapons 8 waves both are maxed along with the vast majority of my focus for the day.   and the majority of the time I have the most kills and damage.

[Mach25]

33 minutes ago, CupcakesMoo said:

Usually the only people who care are cancerous elitists who have achieved nothing else in life. 

Elitist over a video game - that says volumes about the person's life that they would be like this over make-believe.

[CupcakesMoo]

Enjoying a video game is fine. But if elitists want to go on about skill, then I am going to have to bring into question their hunting, fishing, and gardening skills. And not the ingame kind. 

Edited June 6, 2018 by CupcakesMoo

[(XBOX)mickeyjuiceman]

1 hour ago, (PS4)supernova_girlie said:

Does it WHERE a tenno has leveled their warframes and weapons correlate to their skill level?

It certainly does to the truly stupid. But not in reality.

[(PSN)supernova_girlie]

I agree with a lot of what's been said so far, but I still have some doubts. Like if I decided to level my weapons on any other place but the affinity hot spots, then I'm skilled? But if I go the efficient route and hit the hot spot, then I'm not skilled. Wherever you go on the star chart, you're going to encounter meta players. You're definitely going to run into press-4-to-win. I agree that just going to one spot leveling up stuff for the entire time until you reach max mastery is a bit lame, but I also understand why a person would exclusively level items up at the hot spot and then bring their favorite or "good" stuff to other missions as well.

I wonder what our true measurement of skill should be. For me, I'm always impressed with people that can do things with both ease and grace with which I struggle. For instance, parkour was my final frontier until the Eidolons showed up. I used to think of the people with great parkour skills as the skilled players, until I started running into people that were masters of unpopular warframes like Limbo. Now I have a list of minimum things a player should know before I internally label them as experienced and put them on my list of players to invite to sortie or a difficult mission.

As far as MR, I was always afraid to 'let loose' in missions where there are players at lower MR. It's a double-edged sword, if you kill too much you're a bully and if you kill too little you're a high MR noob. Now I've chosen to not worry and to do what's appropriate in regards to the objective. If it's an exterminate, I rather let them think I'm a high MR noob; it's practically impossible to fail one of these. If it's a defense, sometimes you just have to hit that Avalanche before they let enemies blow the cryopod to high hell, I'm the bully.

[KIREEK]

3 ratios

• Kills per mission
• Kills per hour
• Missions per hour

If a person has more than you, that player is more efficient, you can combine this with other stats to check if the player quits alot or fails alot, if the stats are lower, that player is less efficient and overall worse (by how much or if it's relevant is another thing).

If both players complete a capture, the one that knows the objective inside out, the maps, is faster, kills more, helps the teammates will obviosuly be better than the player running invisible and then killing 2 enemies, these are the ones that complain about hema research and vauban prime oxium costs.

No one checks this while playing, you don't stop a match for 5 minutes to make the calcs and compare, but you can do after a mission, if someone complains to you, you compare the stats afterwards and check if the player even had any minimal reason to make the statement.

If he doesn't, let it slide, a player that lacks kills per hour or per mission cannot tell you how you can kill enemies better.

[Brahki]

13 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

3 ratios

• Kills per mission
• Kills per hour
• Missions per hour

If a person has more than you, that player is more efficient, you can combine this with other stats to check if the player quits alot or fails alot, if the stats are lower, that player is less efficient and overall worse (by how much or if it's relevant is another thing).

If both players complete a capture, the one that knows the objective inside out, the maps, is faster, kills more, helps the teammates will obviosuly be better than the player running invisible and then killing 2 enemies, these are the ones that complain about hema research and vauban prime oxium costs.

No one checks this while playing, you don't stop a match for 5 minutes to make the calcs and compare, but you can do after a mission, if someone complains to you, you compare the stats afterwards and check if the player even had any minimal reason to make the statement.

If he doesn't, let it slide, a player that lacks kills per hour or per mission cannot tell you how you can kill enemies better.

Damage is hardly a fair medium to judge "skill", consider stealth warframes and support frames. Would you consider a player with 0% of the damage dealt but three data extractions in a spy less skilled than the player who spent the round killing? It's all subjective. That's largely why many of the replies to this thread have focused more on a general game knowledge, things that will matter regardless of mission type.

[KIREEK]

Yes but mission effectiveness you can see directly and on the long term you have the % in profile

[Oreades]

Eh as far as I'm concerned people who start their argument with MR are on the same level as people who start their argument by correcting your grammar.

The only time MR is ever vaguely telling might be on something like an Eidolon hunt and only then because if their MR is low enough you know there is no way they could have completed TWW. Which means there is no chance they have access to the Operator and literally can't help with the shields. 

As to the whole does where the gear was leveled mean anything? As much as MR means by itself which is to say... No.

 

 

27 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

If both players complete a capture, the one that knows the objective inside out, the maps, is faster, kills more, helps the teammates will obviosuly be better than the player running invisible and then killing 2 enemies, these are the ones that complain about hema research and vauban prime oxium costs.

What is the objective in capture tho? You just shoot something in the face really hard till it stops being a thing. Then you press X and run to the exit.

The only time that knowing the ins and outs of the objective sorta kinda comes into play are like Spy vaults and maybe Lua Rescue. Tho only because the whole of the rest of the game had taught people to play Rescue one way, then Lua Rescue throws you a developer curve ball.

And the Hema research was horrible..... 

Edited June 7, 2018 by Oreades

[(PSN)supernova_girlie]

18 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

3 ratios

• Kills per mission
• Kills per hour
• Missions per hour

If a person has more than you, that player is more efficient, you can combine this with other stats to check if the player quits alot or fails alot, if the stats are lower, that player is less efficient and overall worse (by how much or if it's relevant is another thing).

If both players complete a capture, the one that knows the objective inside out, the maps, is faster, kills more, helps the teammates will obviosuly be better than the player running invisible and then killing 2 enemies, these are the ones that complain about hema research and vauban prime oxium costs.

No one checks this while playing, you don't stop a match for 5 minutes to make the calcs and compare, but you can do after a mission, if someone complains to you, you compare the stats afterwards and check if the player even had any minimal reason to make the statement.

If he doesn't, let it slide, a player that lacks kills per hour or per mission cannot tell you how you can kill enemies better.

This for me doesn't work, because many times there will be a RQ Banshee, that I spent the entire mission reviving, but they have the most kills. I am not going to go as RQ Banshee to every mission so that I can have the most kills. Being able to do DPS and take out enemies is an essential factor, but just not the most essential factor.

I look for people that come to planned extended defenses prepared. I know that if a person drops a shield osprey and an ancient healer specter, they've been around.

The Frost that doesn't put up a bubble on Akkad (unless it's for a riven) before wave 25 is experienced.

The Ember that doesn't turn on WoF before everyone gets 10 reactants in a fissure is experienced.

It's things like this that count as experienced/skilled to me, anyone can throw on Equinox and get the most kills.

[(XBOX)ThermalStone]

There is no skill in warframe.  The only real "skill" comes in selecting your pregame loadout for difficult missions.  This is a check of your inventory and game knowledge.  In mission, as long as you have a baseline of experience with your loadout, you are just executing your pregame plan.  High MR level players are more likely to have a complete inventory and more game knowledge and experience.  They are therefore more likely to appear to be "skilled".  

If you power leveled a certain frame and haven't experimented with that frame's abilities or builds in real missions, then you may appear unskilled the first few times you try something out.  However Warframe isn't that difficult to master.  It only takes a couple games worth of experimentation and tweaking to master most builds or playstyles.  

[jfhsanseiIII]

The first few forma I take it to Draco or another leveling spot.  Then I take the weapon or frame solo to survival and put it through the wringer there.  I can generally get a feel for how it fits frames, enemies, or builds there.  Draco is a good spot to start the leveling process and get over the initial hump, but you really need to take the item out and use it to get a proper feel for it.  Just going through and leveling everything on Draco is not a good approach. That is just my opinion and style though.  

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

25 minutes ago, (XB1)ThermalStone said:

There is no skill in warframe.  The only real "skill" comes in selecting your pregame loadout for difficult missions.  This is a check of your inventory and game knowledge.  In mission, as long as you have a baseline of experience with your loadout, you are just executing your pregame plan.  High MR level players are more likely to have a complete inventory and more game knowledge and experience.  They are therefore more likely to appear to be "skilled".  

If you power leveled a certain frame and haven't experimented with that frame's abilities or builds in real missions, then you may appear unskilled the first few times you try something out.  However Warframe isn't that difficult to master.  It only takes a couple games worth of experimentation and tweaking to master most builds or playstyles.  

This^

+1

[WindigoTG]

Nothing correlates to skill but skill itself.