Acolyte RNG is a great reason for a token system

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

So I've been grinding the Acolytes for a while now and I hate to say it but the Acolytes are everything wrong with an RNG-based reward system.

First they appear randomly and while they show up frequently you cannot grind them, nor can you do missions like you would normally for fear of missing them when they are found (I'm certainly not doing 20+ minute missions). The only way to grind them is to spend a LOT of time waiting for them to appear which is not fun or productive.

Second, the mods are guaranteed but the rare mod requires ~25 kills on average which is what makes the first point all the worse as it could take 1 kill or upwards of 50. At some point the rare mod should be earned simply based on the effort of the player.

Third, the event itself has no pattern so we have no idea when it will be back which makes collecting the desired mods all the more important since we do not know when they will be available again (or if Misery will even appear).

__________

So what if every acolyte kill earned you a token in addition to the mod reward. Then when the event ended you could trade in your tokens for specific acolyte mods or even other rewards. If you did not earn enough tokens you could save them for a future acolyte event. Token costs would be high, of course, but they would allow unlucky players that spent hours pursuing the acolytes to earn their reward.

Furthermore, DE needs to make Misery a more frequent event, similar to razorbacks/formorians but based on Stalker kills. The drop pool would be diluted but it would also allow for smaller amounts of tokens to be earned in between the major Acolyte events.

Anyway, I'm all for grinding but at some point having a random, limited time event with extremely rare drops is taking things a bit too far.

[Orgoon]

There's already token system built in, it's called platinum.

[Marvelous_A]

Game is business so if everyone can get anything by working hard enough the devs won't make money.

They don't want to give fair chance, they certainly want RNG so the unlucky players will tend to pay in plat to get the mods which in turn giving incentive to purchase premium currency.

The best they can do is giving a reasonably low (but not virtually impossible) chance, it's just most game devs fail even on this one. Which in this case, 4% is not virtually impossible coz you can run the mission repetitively in a relatively short time. And consider even if you don't get the rare mods (which I'm pretty certain Maiming Strike and Argon Scope are the main reason you making this thread) you still get a fair amount of very useful mods. It's acceptable.

Edited August 10, 2018 by Marvelous_A

[hellodownthere]

Angst	Mod Drop Chance: 100.00%
	Body Count	Common (51.52%)
	Pressurized Magazine	Rare (4.04%)
	Spring-Loaded Chamber	Uncommon (22.22%)
	Repeater Clip	Uncommon (22.22%)

 

Mania	Mod Drop Chance: 100.00%
	Weeping Wounds	Uncommon (22.22%)
	Embedded Catalyzer	Uncommon (22.22%)
	Catalyzer Link	Common (51.52%)
	Nano-Applicator	Rare (4.04%)

 

Torment	Mod Drop Chance: 100.00%
	Blood Rush	Uncommon (22.22%)
	Hydraulic Crosshairs	Common (51.52%)
	Argon Scope	Rare (4.04%)
	Laser Sight	Uncommon (22.22%)

 

Violence	Mod Drop Chance: 100.00%
	Maiming Strike	Rare (4.04%)
	Sharpened Bullets	Uncommon (22.22%)
	Bladed Rounds	Uncommon (22.22%)
	Shrapnel Shot	Common (51.52%)

 

[kyori]

Perhaps you can ask yourself if you make a free-to-play game with your living income depending on it, will you make everything in the game 100%-easy-get for players?

Wait... another OP not following his own thread. Damn! I wasted my time replying. lol

Edited August 10, 2018 by kyori

[HeartPurity]

Ya while some sharks in market wanna buy argon scope 5:150P 😁 and 50p for maiming strike LOL I wonder what kind of brain structure a person has to sell it to them at that price range, they might as well beg for a free gift from someone rich, will have a higher chance of getting it. 😁

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

3 hours ago, kyori said:

Perhaps you can ask yourself if you make a free-to-play game with your living income depending on it, will you make everything in the game 100%-easy-get for players?

Wait... another OP not following his own thread. Damn! I wasted my time replying. lol

I don't need to get updates to keep an eye on my thread. I'll just check it when I have time.

As for the rest, if I get 100+ acolyte kills is that really considered 100% easy to get? Please don't confuse grinding and having bad RNG as me asking for everything to be easy; I'm willing to put in the time but the event structure only allows for so much grinding. And lol about DE needing to make money from Argon Scope and Maiming Strike to survive; this isn't 2013.

[kyori]

57 minutes ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

I don't need to get updates to keep an eye on my thread. I'll just check it when I have time.

As for the rest, if I get 100+ acolyte kills is that really considered 100% easy to get? Please don't confuse grinding and having bad RNG as me asking for everything to be easy; I'm willing to put in the time but the event structure only allows for so much grinding. And lol about DE needing to make money from Argon Scope and Maiming Strike to survive; this isn't 2013.

You just want things to be made easy so you can get them quick, which pretty much means you want them to hand you the reward (kinda) 100%. I grinded for the mods just like everyone else, no complain. It’s sad to know you’re deeply affected by it. May you find peace soon. 

[-AiLuoLi-]

Y'all complaining about Acolytes wouldn't last a day in korean mmo.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

Token systems will never happen, the only times they added them in were for certain events such as Ambulas Reborn and Plague Star, but for things that are more desirable like Sortie Rewards and Acolyte Mods, DE will always leave RNG to dictate what you get because it keeps people playing. same logic behind any form of gambling: trickle the occasional win to the player to keep them invested, but don't give them too many wins or they'll leave.

I do think the Acolytes should relocate quicker between nodes though. otherwise the Event is fine.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

2 hours ago, kyori said:

You just want things to be made easy so you can get them quick, which pretty much means you want them to hand you the reward (kinda) 100%. I grinded for the mods just like everyone else, no complain. It’s sad to know you’re deeply affected by it. May you find peace soon. 

RNG is RNG.  You get lucky.  You get unlucky.  I acquired all Stalker gear relatively quickly in my 3 yrs playing.

Things like Argon Scope, Maiming Strike, and Growing Power have eluded me.

I enjoy the journey, and play, and reward DE for their efforts.

Having said that, I understand the principle here.  I refused to buy Khora, even with a 75% off coupon, based on principle.  I grumbled a bit when some 40 OTHER Khora parts dropped before BP, but accept it.

And OP, with just a little Plat, the rare Acolyte mods will become more common.  Make connections within your clan.  You will easily be able to trade for them at a minimum.

Networking within Warframe does wonders and can be fun.  RnG complaint threads aren’t networking.

Patience.

Treat WF like a 162 game season in baseball.  Win some.  Lose some.  But never forget to appreciate and enjoy the experience.

Edited August 10, 2018 by (PS4)Silverback73

[KargorX]

Yeah, those are business decisions. I won't be getting a Rhino Prime. I can't do the Tactical alerts. I'll be missing some Acolytes since I'm away over the weekend (and I haven't even gotten the golden drop from the last one that was added).

They might even kick me out of the game entirely -- I had to disable DX11 and DX10 to make it run; if they remove DX9 now...

... but that doesn't really matter. It generally feels like I'm leaving anyway. Having a bunch of events that are primarily for Platinum users / high-level players just emphasizes that it's time to move on 🙂

Although I would have liked doing the all the main story quests before that.

[kyori]

25 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

..

I think you quote the wrong person. I’ve all the stuffs and not the one ranting starting this thread. 

[DrakeWurrum]

I think a standing system would be great, personally. Especially for people who want to hoard up the rewards to sell to players later.

[-AiLuoLi-]

1 hour ago, KargorX said:

Yeah, those are business decisions. I won't be getting a Rhino Prime. I can't do the Tactical alerts. I'll be missing some Acolytes since I'm away over the weekend (and I haven't even gotten the golden drop from the last one that was added).

They might even kick me out of the game entirely -- I had to disable DX11 and DX10 to make it run; if they remove DX9 now...

... but that doesn't really matter. It generally feels like I'm leaving anyway. Having a bunch of events that are primarily for Platinum users / high-level players just emphasizes that it's time to move on 🙂

Although I would have liked doing the all the main story quests before that.

I don't understand, you want rewards without playing the game? How are the events for platinum users?

[(PSN)Silverback73]

1 hour ago, kyori said:

I think you quote the wrong person. I’ve all the stuffs and not the one ranting starting this thread. 

I was agreeing with your sentiment, which is why I mentioned “OP”.

[kyori]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

I was agreeing with your sentiment, which is why I mentioned “OP”.

I see, I see. I must've missed the point as I read your message in a hurry in subway lol

[(PSN)SkinlessGorgon]

I just need to look at destiny 2, from Destiny 1 to see how bad a token system in a game like this would not work.

It gives players a thrill to get a rare mod drop.  Saving up 250 kiils to get an Argon Scope, is bad grind, bad player investment into the game.  The urgency, and yes some stress that your not going to get the drop.  I would argue that RNG rewards are the way to go, rather than fixed drops, or buying things at a shop.

The rare-ness of the mod is emphasised by the rarity of the event it drops, so more of them invalidates the rareness of the drop, again bad player time investment, and a feeling "Meh, i got that, now what other games can I play?"

DE has been living off the RNG loot system for 5 years now, and grown its player base exponentially by not changing.  I'd say that maybe a re-think of the event itself is in order, because there is a lot of down time, compared with other events currently in play.

There is an old saying in warframe "Trade chat has 100% drop rate", but you don't get the utter thrill of the drop, the relief you finally got it, the bragging rights you've earned over your friends, and think of the plat if you get another ...

[(PSN)Cargan2016]

Worst idea ever if they did it for acolytes the wouldhave peopleup in arm demanding it be done for relics.  Then need and desire to buy plat be all but gone.  Which would cause de to no longer make enough money to support game and we would all loose out if they forced toshut it down for lack of income

[Beas7ie]

11 hours ago, kyori said:

Perhaps you can ask yourself if you make a free-to-play game with your living income depending on it, will you make everything in the game 100%-easy-get for players?

Wait... another OP not following his own thread. Damn! I wasted my time replying. lol

 Weapons, and other gear yes, at least not at the mercy of harsh RNG.

 

Cosmetics will be premium currency only.  

 

Now Warframe is hardly the worst offender, and it's also mitigated by not having serious pvp, but there's still quite a few instances where the players with more money or just get lucky with their drops that they can trade for plat can "buy power", and that' something game designers should try to avoid.  

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

2 hours ago, -AiLuoLi- said:

I don't understand, you want rewards without playing the game? How are the events for platinum users?

The poster never said they didn't have time to play the game, only that they will not be able to play over the weekend. Due to how the Acolyte event is timed that means they will miss out on the weekend Acolytes and no matter how much they play the event before then the only way they can acquire those mods that drop over the weekend is by purchasing them from other players with platinum.

What sucks is that you assume the player doesn't want to play but they could have grinded the first Acolytes hundreds of times but due to the popularity of specific mods that means almost nothing. A token system would resolve this as players willing to grind could spend the time playing and get to select their reward at the end. Furthermore, players that have real-life commitments can grind hard when they have time to offset the time that they will miss. That's a fair compromise and how most events in Warframe work.

Anyway, this event has a myriad of problems and spending platinum to bypass the RNG is just a poor workaround. Again, I'm not against grinding but it needs to be a fair grind regardless of how bad the drop chance is. And let's not forget that DE built it's reputation with Warframe by being a fair F2P game.

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

3 hours ago, -AiLuoLi- said:

I don't understand, you want rewards without playing the game? How are the events for platinum users?

The poster never said they didn't have time to play the game, only that they will not be able to play over the weekend. Due to how the Acolyte event is timed that means they will miss out on the weekend Acolytes and no matter how much they play the event before then the only way they can acquire those mods that drop over the weekend is by purchasing them from other players with platinum.

What sucks is that you assume the player doesn't want to play but they could have grinded the first Acolytes hundreds of times but due to the popularity of specific mods that means almost nothing. A token system would resolve this as players willing to grind could spend the time playing and get to select their reward at the end. Furthermore, players that have real-life commitments can grind hard when they have time to offset the time that they will miss. That's a fair compromise and how most events in Warframe work.

Anyway, this event has a myriad of problems and spending platinum to bypass the RNG is just a poor workaround. Again, I'm not against grinding but it needs to be a fair grind regardless of how bad the drop chance is. And let's not forget that DE built it's reputation with Warframe by being a fair F2P game.

[(XBOX)Danowat32]

They seem to come around ever 10mins, and when there is 3 on the go, you can almost go from one to the next and so on, there is barely any waiting around. 

[MystMan]

With RNG, you never know when you will get the drop you want.  1 attempt?  5 attempts?  20?  100?   You don't know until you try. SOME people will get unlucky and run the risk of burning out, sure thing. That is still better than tokens.

With the token system, at least all the games that I've played that used it, they make it very clear from the start for how long you need to grind. 

Do X task, get 1 token.  You look at the token exchange window and you notice that to get some fancy armor set you need to grind 150 times. Seeing that number is extremely demotivating, many will suddenly lose all temptation to even bother. Without trying you already know it's gonna be a long haul that will burn you out. 

And that's the thing about token games, they never make it short, varied and sweet.  It's always blatantly long, tedious and infuriating.  ALL people will burn out.

 

[-AiLuoLi-]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

The poster never said they didn't have time to play the game, only that they will not be able to play over the weekend. Due to how the Acolyte event is timed that means they will miss out on the weekend Acolytes and no matter how much they play the event before then the only way they can acquire those mods that drop over the weekend is by purchasing them from other players with platinum.

What sucks is that you assume the player doesn't want to play but they could have grinded the first Acolytes hundreds of times but due to the popularity of specific mods that means almost nothing. A token system would resolve this as players willing to grind could spend the time playing and get to select their reward at the end. Furthermore, players that have real-life commitments can grind hard when they have time to offset the time that they will miss. That's a fair compromise and how most events in Warframe work.

Anyway, this event has a myriad of problems and spending platinum to bypass the RNG is just a poor workaround. Again, I'm not against grinding but it needs to be a fair grind regardless of how bad the drop chance is. And let's not forget that DE built it's reputation with Warframe by being a fair F2P game.

It's just weird for me because I grew up with korean mmorpg and they would release time limited events with exclusive loots that will never come back yet people rarely complain about it if they missed it. Everyone just suck it up if they can't play during the event for whatever reasons.