CrownOfShadows

IMO, yes he is too strong. Jump into an ESO right now and just stand there as a Dante nukes the whole room from orbit, better than any other nuker in the game, better than the stupidity that is legerdemain even. AND he can give the whole team ridiculous amounts of overgaurd if he happened to be in challenging content. It feels like he was developed in a powercrept environment and then dropped into ours. The one thing I really hate about the WF youtube community is that nobody EVER has the balls to say 'this is too strong' or 'this is too easy'.

Exalted melee should not lose their combo when swapping out of them - this would be a huge QoL for Baruuk, Excal and especially Sevagoth and Valkyr and would be another way of addressing the problems here, but making it so a lot of these other combo-gain tactics work on exalted would be greatly appreciated as well. Honestly, these two things would solve almost all my gripes about exalted combo. Just treat them like another melee. (One weird alternative would be to transfer your combo from your normal melee to your exalted on equip, and maybe vice versa - not as intuitive but it's another option I suppose, at least all that combo wouldn't be disappearing into the ether). I'd rather fix all of them at once than make a mod to fix Baruuk

I had an idea a while back to create aura mods that are an opt-in style pooling of benefits and even though the example here might not be the best use of it I still think it's a really powerful concept in theory and much more suited to average play. (in the aura mod section about halfway down)

Yeah I agree 100% they are definitely lackluster. But the issue is DE has to balance around a 4 person squad stacking them. That never actually happens, but they have to put that as the ceiling. Not sure what to do about that with the existing auras (I don't see buffing them really working for the above reason), but they could & should definitely go some different directions with new auras. I guess they could rework how the existing ones work, which in every case except one or two I'd honestly be fine with as they basically do nothing for me but add capacity.

The point I was trying to make here is that enemies have the same benefit. If you cast cataclysm away from you, the enemies in it can still shoot back at you if you're in the rift outside just like you can shoot them. Thus there's not really any extra protection in casting it around you verses a few meters away.

Well, the list is pretty obvious and long, but here it is, in roughly the order I'd like: Dera Vandal / Dera Ballistica / Ballistica Prime Buzlok Grinlok Fusilai Cyanex Marelok Hema (omg) Tysis (omg) Penta (these all suck right??) Attica Stubba / Kohmak / Bolto / Cestra (the remaining old single pistols after Marelok) Battacor Stug (ofc) Sobek (it has it's niche but by itself yeah it sucks) Pretty much every single dual pistol / ak - I think the only exception is the Akarius Talons & Castanas (Aegrit is decent, but these other variants fall flat imx) Mutalist Quanta Paracyst (omg) Sybaris Azima Quatz Hikou Embolist (? not deep into this weapon but it seems to suck) Acrid (? is there still a niche on this or is it ded?) Opticor.. love that weapon, but I'd kinda place it with the snipers, which need some deepthink about themselves as a class maybe and what to do with all of them. I could put them all in here but... also they can be pretty strong when they come out to play, they just suck for most of the game. As for all melee incarnon, sigh...

Readability = 2/10. Someone give me a TLDR

Yup, not convinced. Thanks for not addressing any of the issues, have fun out there.

Meh. How about we just rework the whole ability instead?

this is completely false. It's a random enemy in range. 🤢🤮 No bruh, it is not fine, it sucks. We're gonna have to disagree on this. This is the kindof thing I'd say if I read the read the ability description and not the post I referenced. Like try playing Limbo without Cataclysm, the way he's kinda supposed to be played. It's SO lame. You cannot reliably fight enemies. Does it work sometimes? Sure. Is it good, is it reliable, does it fulfill the purpose of Rift Surge? No. Very much no. It's a great concept with terrible implementation. Just running energize I haven't had a single problem with energy. Can't relate. 10 energy is nothing. Bad hill to die on imo. Lol. Maybe. But are you hiding 30-50m away and just casting Cataclysm on the objective? You seem to have dodged this question. And yes I completely agree, how you play him changes dramatically on the mission type. If there's no defense objective then it's almost completely different, but your responses regarding Rift Surge make ME think YOU don't regularly play him THAT way, otherwise you'd have a much bigger issue with how it works. People who aren't irritated by Rift Surge's mechanics are people who don't rely on it / don't use it / don't understand it imx. It would not at all 'be disruptive'. You could just cast Cataclysm while near the objective. How is that killing it? It's the EXACT same 'disruptiveness' as casting it from somewhere else? Both might be true. I'm famously an idiot.

I'll look into this point about banishing Energy regen is NOT a problem with Limbo, I could care less about his passive at this point. If it was between and upgrade to Limbo or his passive, yeah I'll take the upgrade. Spore-like; NO it does NOT function that way, not at all. The randomness is a real problem, are you saying that it's fine in its current state, just some random enemy within range? I understand the idea of Rift Surge theoretically propagating beyond cataclysm, but in practicality this isn't very effective. Why? Because of the above problem. Stasis being a slow being a wacky gloom. Are you saying that enemies stacking up at the boundary is the ideal? Is that great for YOU? Is that great for your TEAM? I already commented on this remote casting but I'll reiterate it here. What you seem to basically be doing is hiding 30-50 meters away from the defense objective and just occasionally casting 4 on it. Is that correct?

Rift Surge is the linchpin in Limbo's kit (aside from visual FX). It's both holding him back from greatness and also it can completely break his kit if it's not done well. Right now it's broken. Fix up Rift Surge and you fix Limbo, that basically sums it up.

I've never once had a desire to do this and never once seen another Limbo player do it (on purpose) and cannot see a single benefit in doing it. So let me get this straight, what you're doing is launching Cataclysm away from you somewhere and using yourself as 'bait' for the Eximus? But the defense objective always has higher priority for the enemies than you do.... and presumably you're in the rift out there instead of actually facing the eximus 1 on 1, yeah I'm not understanding this. Are you relying on your team or something? Are you dropping out and stripping their overguard and then banishing them and then jumping back into the rift and then fighting them? (extremely inefficient). Cataclysm is the ultimate realization of rift protection, you are not better protected outside of it (and neither are you worse protected - they are the same, distance from the enemies is the only thing you gain). Wander out 30m to fight an eximus? Great there are 3 more banging on your defense objective. You aren't drawing all the eximus to you wherever you are, the defense objective has the aggro, distance only helps you if you have a team dealing with everything you don't want to. Uh... what?!? Cataclysm is infinitely safer than the "real world" because of both stasis and rift surge and basic rift dynamics where you just jump out if need be. Casting Cataclysm around you is always ALWAYS better than casting it somewhere else. 'Leave the protection of the rift'... or just stay in the rift? Sorry this is complete nonesense, there is no difference between being in the rift in cataclysm and being in the rift outside of it. Are you not using stasis or banish or rift surge? Are you just afk Limbo after 4? Yeah silence is old news on him. Good for eximus and acolytes for sure. Good enough to replace rift surge? Depends, I'd say usually yes; Violence is a major kill-joy.

Ever since he was included in Duviri Circuit we've been anticipating being able to use him in regular content. But I do agree with others that making him a regular warframe would dramatically degrade his presence. Also, as many many threads have detailed, the Stalker kit itself kinda sucks and is just a hodgepodge of abilities stolen from other frames. So what I would prefer is something intermittent and unique, if anything. Maybe something tied into invigorations.

Immersion might be a joke to some people but I will legit leave if things get out of hand, or only play solo. You might laugh at that, but it's about the fate of the game. Pull a fortnight and I'm gone.

Everyone's gotta make a Limbo post at some point in their life right? xD So I was a little bored maybe and started mucking around with Limbo again. Here's the honest truth: I have only ever used him for stasis locking the whole map and once in a blue moon for spy. I've never really understood rift surge - even though I've used the augment to boost my damage I never understood the ability itself. And after a lot of confusion and some searching I happened to read this post from a few years ago: This was a bit of an eye-opener and I was like HUH, let me check this out, and I'm here now after playing a lot of Limbo as I assume he was probably meant to be played. As a result I have a much better appreciation of Limbo and a much clearer idea of what's really holding him back, and more importantly why he doesn't need a total overhaul (something I actually would've given the nod to a month ago) . He's SO close to being good, fun, unique and strong, honestly, so close. After riftwalking a bunch, here's my suggestions for Limbo. Let me preface this by saying that this is only like the 800th post on Limbo, so take the others that have preceded me on this topic with their due weight. Alright let's br-br-break it down All Limbo needs is QoL and some tweaks In the Rift: Create a special post-process effect that is WAY more noticeable when in the rift. May I suggest using the same desaturated tech used in Duviri and Conjunction survival as a good starting point - as not only is it already made and very apparent but also is slightly lore adjacent. Alternatively, create a brand new effect (might be a good idea just so Limbos in Conjunction survival aren't confused out of their minds). It needs to be strong visually, there should never be a question about whether you are in the rift or not. It should be night and day difference. Even if the desaturated tech is used here, i'd suggest bumping the contrast or something too. It doesn't even need to be area specific like Duviri's, even if you just did a blanket post process across the whole screen that would do wonders (tbh idk how Duviri's tech works exactly, it's super slick). Enemies that are not in the rift should either disappear from the player's view when they are in the rift or perhaps become just ghostly mostly-transparent figures. This is to distinguish the rift-bound from the normal, which is very hard to do normally, the best way to know is in fact to use stasis and see who stops moving, but that shouldn't be necessary. AND vice versa, when the player is not in the rift, the enemies trapped in the rift should not be visible. AND this should be true of team-mates who interact with the rift too - it should be the same experience for them. Enemies in the rift are physically removed and they should be visually removed as much as possible, players should only be seeing their current plane of existence, not both at the same time. (Another possibility is to color the non-rift enemies and desaturate the rift enemies, but I'd bet that would still be too cluttered and confusing). Limbo has a lot of complicated interactions and this lack of visual clarity makes playing him WAY more frustrating than it needs to be. This change alone would be a god-send. Banish: I suggest removing the portal he leaves behind. Players can roll to do the same thing and it's just annoying for others to worry about not stepping in it, and Limbo himself doesn't even use it. I also suggest removing the radial banish associated with hitting a target and instead adding a hold version to this ability that casts a banishing wave so that you can banish a group in front of you if you want. Note that there is a current hold mechanic on Banish - it cancels the Banish. I never found this particularly useful but maybe there's a case for it idk about. I wouldn't change the augment at all (Haven), I think it's good. While I'd like Banish to be more useful as a Helminth I couldn't think of anything to stack onto it really, although there are surely lots of options. Stasis: I remember reading in several other Limbo posts suggestions that the rift should just slow enemies rather than freeze them. I believe this is a great suggestion, but my recent experiences have informed me that he really needs stasis to freeze enemies too because it's an important part of his gameplay loop. I remember one suggestion that said have the rift apply cold continuously until enemies are frozen, and I would suggest either that or something similar like enemies are slowed a little when first entering and this ramps up progressively to a full stop (cold status has benefits now that DE may not want applied en masse idk). The reason for this is primarily to make the constantly moving boundary of cataclysm less obnoxious for others and for Limbo himself. This absolutely should happen imo, it would be a major benefit to everyone. I think that they should probably stop in their tracks either half or 1/3 of the way into the rift. Once frozen, I don't think they should unfreeze (until they exit the rift) even though the goalpost will be moving because this will just create the same boundary problem as before where a bunch of enemies are crowding the boundary being frozen and unfrozen constantly. Basically, the rift should be like molasses and they eventually just grind to a halt and stop there until they exit the rift. This would create a pleasant scattering of enemies rather than a stutter troop at the boundary. Cataclysm: should change slightly in how it interacts with the team and Limbo himself. Should always be cast directly on Limbo's position no matter what. Accidentally casting it 100 meters away is both annoying and unnecessary. This was likely done because I think you used to be able to cast 2 Cataclysms and the idea was probably that you could cast the second one somewhere else while remaining in the first. This wasn't practical then and it's pointless and annoying now that you can only cast 1. Enemies that are banished and then enter Cataclysm should not exit the rift when Banish's duration expires or for any other reason except being manually banished by Limbo himself. If they are in Cataclysm, they are in the rift, period. This interaction is extremely confusing and counterintuitive. The visual changes along with the new stasis mechanics should help the team tremendously when engaging with the rift, not interrupting their gameplay very much. I will say that I considered removing the roll-to-enter-the-rift mechanic for the team, and only allowing them in via Cataclysm. I don't really have a good reason for not promoting this, I think it would help a lot, but I guess I like the idea that the WF community might get wise enough around Limbo to take advantage of ducking damage on a whim (or with Haven ducking into the rift to heal, which I think is a nice thing). The one remaining issue is players trying to attack enemies outside of Cataclysm. I think the frustration around this will drop like crazy if the visual changes are implemented, but it's still a bit of an issue and I don't really have a good solution. I'd personally only address this after a first round of changes and see if it's even needed. I wouldn't change the augment at all, I think it's good (other than the fact that Limbo has no modding room for all these augments). Rift Surge: is great in concept. Actually it's fantastic in concept. It allows Limbo to chew through enemy hordes at his own pace without ever being in danger of being overwhelmed. It could also allow him to do this in a team setting without disturbing the team... but unfortunately it's implementation falls way short of it's ideal. Rift surge is the tool for bringing new enemies into the rift since you cannot banish enemies that aren't in the rift while in the rift yourself. While it would be fine to put that functionality back into Banish (it is super annoying trying to get new targets that's for sure) it would make Rift Surge somewhat pointless as that's basically it's whole purpose. The idea should be to kill the surged enemies to bring new enemies in, and on and on. This is the biggest functional change I have: I suggest changing it to a channeled ability and having it be a mini-aura around Limbo, so that wherever Limbo goes, as long as it's active, enemies around him in the rift are automatically surged and on death can bring any enemies outside in, so long as they are inside the aura's ring (either a percentage of them or I think better would be all of them). This gives Limbo an easy way to get new targets into the rift, allows him to maintain a semblance of control over how many are coming in (both through modding and target selection) and an easy way to turn it off if things get out of hand. Rift Surge would be a bubble of death following him around inside the rift, bringing new enemies in constantly. This should work well for normal riftwalking, but inside Cataclysm (where all enemies are already inside the rift) it should have a different effect. I leave what this might be up to imagination, it could be an elemental effect, void damage, armor stripping, further cc, healing, energy regen on kill, duration boost on kill, etc etc. If you wanted a bit more of an opportunity cost to it you could make it more like despoil, so that it's a channeled ability but it only costs energy when it is surges an enemy. Alternatively you could have it act like Saryn's spores but in a more limited way, this would let it spread out beyond cataclysm in particular but it would give Limbo much less control over how many enemies he might be facing so I don't like this option as much. He's very fragile due to how many ability stats he needs to build for, he's one of the only remaining pure casters. Possibly you could combine the spore mechanic with the mini-aura in some way so that it has a limiter on it, but that seems overly complicated. Yet another alternative I imagined was that Rift Surge could be a radial pulse that just sucks all enemies in range into the rift. This is equally as good as the mini-aura and maybe even better. It could additionally be a cc ability like airburst/pull but idk that might be too strong (but I will note here that during my many experiments subsuming Mag's pull onto Limbo was rather nice, just to suck enemies into Cataclysm, and I wouldn't mind it at all if Rift Surge worked similarly). I'd only slightly change the Rift Torrent augment so that it applies to every enemy in rift stasis rather than surged enemies, so that it scales a bit rather than being locked to the very few enemies that would be inside of Rift Surge's aura (or pulse). (Or maybe it gets a certain % per stasis enemy and different higher % for each surged enemy; a nice middle ground). It is pretty annoying that it scales with strength too, Limbo honestly doesn't have the mod space to build for duration, range, efficiency AND strength. It's pretty painful, I'd suggest making it scale with something else but I'll leave that one up in the air. The Nullifier Issue: Nullifiers mean that Limbo can't be played in any mission with Corpus or on any fissures, which is just not an acceptable state for a frame. Something needs to be done about this. I'm just going to repeat a suggestion I heard in another thread: let the nullifiers nullify the rift inside their bubble only. Let them act like umbrellas of anti-rift that don't cancel cataclysm, but enable them to walk through it (along with any enemies under their umbrella if you want) until they are popped, at which point they enter the rift. While this would be annoying because it would require Limbo to exit the rift to pop them and then jump back in (and in SP there can be a LOT of nullifiers), that is still infinitely better than canceling his whole ability. In the rift, once their bubble is popped, it wouldn't reactivate as long as stasis is on (which is NOT the current functionality 🤮). I have a few gripes about Limbo's general survivability, which is funny because technically he's untouchable, but riftwalking is pretty dangerous and would still be so even with all of the above changes - you're made of glass and you're dancing in and out of combat constantly with enemies that can insta-delete you. I died more times playing Limbo recently than I have in quite awhile. This is another thing I'd suggest looking at afterwards to see if it's needed.

Ah Hm, well, I see what you're saying I think. Moving all frames towards having a more generalist approach to stats means we would need less corrupted mods and more generalist mods, and your examples are solid... but... well assuming that's their goal, it's going to take a long time to get all frames to that place, like probably another decade, and even then they will never be perfectly equal across all abilities. Well this is true but it also isn't, depending on the stats you're after, the slots you have to work with and the frame you're on. Like you can spend 5 ability mods and get 227% duration and 169% range and just barely an even noticeable drawback in 95% strength (Narrowminded, Overextended, Primed Continuity, Transient Fortitude, Stretch) and you can hit those same numbers without corrupted mods using 6 mods (Primed Continuity, Constitution, Stretch, Auger Reach, Augur Message and Nira's Hatred) - and likely most everyone would be fine dropping Nira's Hatred here because 5 slots is too much of an ask for a build, so your argument works pretty well here it's just 1 more mod which is only 15% - a perfectly acceptable loss in order to give that slot to something we need more. BUT Compare this to a strength and range build. Using 5 mods we can hit 235% range and 224% strength, while taking a small hit on duration at 73% and the big efficiency hit at 45%. Now to do this without corrupted mods is actually impossible. The closest you can get is 6 mods at 190% range and 183% strength (Umbral Intensify, Augur Secrets, Amar's Hatred, Stretch, Augur Reach, Cunning Drift). And doing this same test with only 2 mods the results are more stark. Like Blind Rage + Transient Fortitude is 255% strength and you can only hit 168% with non-corrupted using Umbral Intensify and Augur Secrets, that's almost a full -100%. If you only had 2 slots to give and you want strength, it's impossible to hit those numbers without using corrupted, impossible to even get close. Of course, that's the most extreme example stacking 2 corrupted mods, but what if you really want range and you only have 2 slots to spare for it. Overextended + Stretch = 235% range. Without that corrupted mod it's Stretch + Augur Reach = 175% which is -55% off the corrupted combo, again, it's impossible to hit numbers like that without corrutped. Of course, the question after this is always: how much does that hurt and how much do I care? There's a lot more validity to what you're saying than I initially credited here, like you often spend almost as many mod slots compensating for corrupted mods as you do just building without them, but it really depends because sometimes they are just an absolute win and can save you 1-3 slots or give you a benefit you just would not be able to achieve otherwise, so I don't know that it's a good rule of thumb. There are probably just as many cases where using corrupted is the better choice as there are for where it's not.

Overall, I like 2 of these idea quite a bit. An ever increasing cost for more and more rivens seems great, and applying the same thing to ciphers and adding them to the shop also seems great. The rest I kinda shrugged at, I wouldn't be too interested. However, I think there are other interesting and new ways to use riven slivers that DE should look into for sure. The main change I'd suggest is that the cost doesn't just jump once but increases after every purchase. So your first 2 rivens are 10 slivers, your next 2 are 20, your next 30 , your next 40, etc, and same for ciphers.

Well it's about mod space and compensating. The reason I'm looking for corrupted mods a little bit more than side grades or nightmare style mods is because to get to the same number requires 2 or 3 mods instead of 1, which in turn affects the entire build to some degree. Like in the current scheme a middle corrupted mod fully compensates for the drawback of a high corrupted mod, whereas a nightmare mod wouldn't and would thus have to be combined with another mod (if you want to fully compensate). I didn't quite follow your efficiency example (you surely meant 72% not 172% 😂, but you lost me after that when comparing it to duration & range), but if you wanted to compensate for Blind Rage you could either use Streamline + Boreals to get close, or if you happened to not care about duration you could just use 1 mod, Fleeting Expertise. Now if you're a frame that does care about duration, well you have to pay for that with an extra mod slot, which is really the heart of the issue. If there was an Expertise that punished something besides duration, say range, then maybe you're on a frame that's cool with that, and you save a mod just for being you. The only real reason not to create more corrupted varieties that I can see has to do with the dangers of stacking. If we have a new corrupted range mod for example, let's say at the mid-point of 66%, and we stacked that with overextended (+90%) and stacked that with augur reach (+30%) and stretch (+45%); that's +231% range compared to our current max of +165%. It's a fair bet that DE probably ran the math on this and thought it was too much. But it obviously wasn't game-breaking, due to stuff like fissures, which doubles our current 165% to bring us to a whopping +330% range. So my basic point in bringing that up there was that, yes, even though fissures might be temporary, DE is ok with 330% on some level (in fact, because you can combine invigorations and fissures, they're somehow not scared out of their minds about +660% range... which honestly scares me a lot and sounds broken af). Anyways, that fissure number is a full +100% better than the +231% we would achieve with a new corrupted middle mod. And achieving that is pretty painful because it would take half of your entire modding capability to achieve it (4 mods) - and that's assuming you're not also wanting to run another corrupted mod that punishes range. So I am worried about range, it's a very strong multiplier (and much of this argument also applies to duration [which interestingly is not a fissure or invigoration bonus]), and surely DE is worried too, but I'm also saying there's probably a good deal of room even for stacking-style mods still, especially since corrupted mods come with built-in drawbacks. But do I think we need more range? I don't, I think we're in a good spot. I'm not actually endorsing more range (or any stat) - rather, the main reason I want these corrupted middle mods is actually not to stack them with high corrupted mods, but to compensate for the other negatives of high corrupted mods. So if there's a way to create middle corrupted mods that don't stack I'd be down for that too, but that might get pretty tricky - not sure if it's possible due to the different ways they need to be combined, but it might work, it's an interesting idea. Like it might be tempting to view the corrupted drawbacks as an alternative to mod space. Want to punish players for building super high stat? Well you can either attach drawbacks to that like corrupted mods or you can force them to use more mod space. However I think a mod slot is way more of a punishment than a mod drawback, and the reason behind this is because not all frames care about all stats equally. So sure, narrowminded might punish your range hard for all that duration, but some frames shrug that off, and some are crippled by it and have to invest another 2 mods to bring it back up. Like narrowminded on Mesa is whatever, she doesn't care at all. But narrowminded on Gyre or Equinox or something is so brutal that if you don't compensate for it the build is dead because they need range just as much as they do duration. So Mesa gets what she needs for free basically (1 mod, +100% duration) and for no other reason than that there's a mod with a downside she could care less about, while others have to use 2-3 mods depending on how much they care because the mods don't cater to them, and so we're un-equally punishing frames who don't care about certain stats simply because we don't have corrupted mods with different downsides. Now this is a simple example with 1 stat, but this is even more true when a frame wants 2 stats, or 3, or heaven forbid all 4. The tree of nerfs goes in only certain directions, and if your frame doesn't align with those, the price is more mod slots, which are at a massive premium because you also need to build for other things like survival, energy, and augments. Archon shards and arcanes can help with a lot of this, but not all of it. Some examples. Let's say we want +100% duration and +100% range and at least around the default 100% strength. Currently, this takes 6 mods to achieve [Overextended and Narrowminded for the +100% of each stat, and then 4 to compensate: Stretch, Auger Reach, Intensify, Augur Secrets]. The big question is: is this too much of a mod-slot ask for these stats? Well, to answer that I'm going to compare to building +100% strength and +100% duration while maintaining the default 100% range. This takes 4 mod slots to achieve [Narrowminded and Blind Rage for the +100s and then Stretch and Auger Reach to compensate]. Of course if you're lucky enough to be on a frame that doesn't care about range, then this magically becomes 2 mods instead of 4. And we might as well take the third possibility; building for +100% strength and +100% range while keeping 100% duration. That's also 4 mods [Blind Rage, Overextended, Transient Fortitude and Augur Message]. Again, if your frame doesn't care about duration, this is just 2 mods. Compare that to the 6 mods some frames have to spend to achieve the first result, which is so prohibitive that nobody can even do it. (I'm ignoring efficiency for simplicity because of energy regen and energy pool size but some frames really do suffer from bad efficiency, like Ember and Protea. Also, all of this is rather oversimplified because each frame is unique in how they build, helminth, etc etc, but the basic inequality should be apparent) (Note also that these examples are all building for 3 stats, but more often you're building for 2 stats instead and the paradigm shifts to favor strength builds above all others) But now let's pretend we had a full suite of corrupted mods to work with (which probably isn't the healthiest modding environment but just in theory). What would these builds look like then? Each should take at least 3 mods to achieve, but it could be done in different ways (either 2 high mods and 1 medium/low, or 1 high 1 medium and 1 low - assuming all are piling their negatives into one category, although realistically it would probably be 4 mods because all piling into one negative would have to be compensated for). Now when you compare that to the current situation, this only saves you 1 mod in the last two examples but it saves you 2 or 3 mods in the first example, which in that case is huge. 3 mod slots is BIG amount to save just because the mods now align with your frame and no other reason. This inconsistency in the stat-to-mod space here is what's driving the issue, and it's completely due to the lack of options in the mod's drawbacks. It's hard to guess how much of that is intentional and how much is arbitrary, but all the stats are intertwined and interdependent, so the thrust of this effort was to show that there's space for more variety by exploiting that network a little more. More corrupted mod variety should even out a lot of the stat-to-mod cost disparity between frames.

Well, I definitely do agree that range is problematic and that they are wisely being cautious about it. It can get out of hand fast I suppose. BUT keep in mind that they give out a free +100% range on relic fissures and invigorations (hmm is it in arbis and archons too? idk), so there's not exactly a moratorium on it, and even if we had a range middle mod and stacked both along with Augur Reach that still wouldn't equal that bonus (of course, then you have to figure on a stacked range frame with such a fissure bonus which is probably where the real problems would lie). Additionally there's always the option to do side-grades like archon style mods (which are mutually exlusive and thus can't be stacked), or just variations of overextended that have different trade-offs. Like I'm not really even asking for more range (or any stat at all) here, I'm really just asking for more options in the drawbacks.

Haha! If only you knew the power of QDH! We can make it possible. If only you believe.

Did you not even read the OP? I LITERALLY asked for exactly this. JC

this is where you're wrong. sure it will always be there, but when it starts becoming the meta that's when it become a problem. I don't mind one scumbag leech now and then, even two on a blue moon, but when too many of my pub missions start being filled with Revenants who are doing nothing, yeah we have an issue bro

Yup, I agree 100%, I check in for the updates and some occasional relic farming with disruption that's all, if I check-in otherwise it's just for fashion/build crafting. Been a problem for a long time but I guess that's just the way it is.

No, I don't think there is alas, but that'd be super cool, like an overframe style site dedicated to fashion. I think the closest thing around are social media groups/channels that are dedicated to it, many list everything involved in creating a look, but none very systematically. I seem to remember a high quality fashion frame 'magazine' that compiled some of the best looks but when I went to go find it just now I couldn't track it down :(