How to make Endurance runs more attractive ?

[LarryOtter]

 

right now endurance runs arent as rewarding as they should be with their massiv time and effort requirements.

most players aren’t longer than 10-20 min in most missions and their highest is like 1 hour (me inclouded).

I know their are already some warframe players doing endurance just to see how long they can survive but I don’t think they would’nt like it when they would just get more rewards.

how to make it more rewarding :

-Weekly endurance Challenges f.e. Survive until wave 30 on hydroid where you get a guaranteed reward like 600 endo

-A way so people can extract from endless missions

-more Rewards for Endless Missions for example : At a given Enemy level you get 2 rewards every wave or just scaling rewards in generall

-higher level enemies should drop more resources

 

not all of these ideas should be implemented just one or two...

 

thx for reading

[Walkampf]

Or, you know, don't make them more effective in order to not screw over more casual players?

DE already made an official statement, when they discussed endless Kuva

[(PSN)OriginalEquinox]

9 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

Or, you know, don't make them more effective in order to not screw over more casual players?

DE already made an official statement, when they discussed endless Kuva

So increasing endurance rewards would screw over casuals, but aren't they screwing endurance runners right now?

[Walkampf]

No, they aren't. You get objectivly the same rewards.

If the fun of playing endurance runs is not enough for you and you only play endurance runs for the loot, then I'm afraid that there is something fundamentally wrong with your head.

This bahaviour is closer to stockholm syndrom than it is to playing a game for having fun.

[Chewarette]

40 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

No, they aren't. You get objectivly the same rewards.

If the fun of playing endurance runs is not enough for you and you only play endurance runs for the loot, then I'm afraid that there is something fundamentally wrong with your head.

This bahaviour is closer to stockholm syndrom than it is to playing a game for having fun.

Any Warframe player looking for challenge currently only has Sorties (...).

There is no way of running long Survival Runs because everyone will leave after the 4th (regular run) or 5th (fissures) rotation. What should be implemented is an incentive, not a huge one, just something enough to justify you may spend more time in any mission without it being mandatory. The OP literally spoke about 600 Endo, nothing gamebreaking, nothing mandatory, nothing you can't grind for anywhere else.

Exactly the same thing they implemented in Void Fissure missions, with the incremental reward (+25% loot, affinity, refined relic) the longer you stay.

All the Starchart missions are lame because they will never reach lvl 100+. Thus, the casual Warframe player will play up to being fully forma'd, fully modded, fully enhanced, go into level 20 missions, and "now what ?".

They would lose absolutely nothing giving small rewards. On the contrary, their will to focus on Mobile gaming community by reducing every mission to 2-minute-content will only attract newcomers, who will leave 5 months later.

Tl;dr because people never knows what to read in any post longer than 2 sentences : NO NEED TO GIVE LEGENDARY CORES FOR 40-MINUTE SURVIVAL, JUST A SMALL BOOST FOR ANYONE INTERESTED

Edited August 30, 2018 by Chewarette

[Ketec]

Endurance runs punish people  who need to leave early for any reason - you can't quit if you are alone at the exit and others won't come - and if you just stay there, you die - lose affinity and get labelled afk.

[Walkampf]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Chewarette:

Any Warframe player looking for challenge currently only has Sorties (...).

This is literally wrong, since you are free to stay in endless missions as long as you want, if you are in for the challenge (as you claim).

You just don't get increased loot (which is what you are actually after).

Please stop lying, OK?

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Chewarette:

On the contrary, their will to focus on Mobile gaming community by reducing every mission to 2-minute-content

😂 Yeah, because Warframe for Android confirmed!

 

[Chewarette]

29 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

This is literally wrong, since you are free to stay in endless missions as long as you want, if you are in for the challenge (as you claim).

You just don't get increased loot (which is what you are actually after).

Please stop lying, OK?

I can (and I've done) countless endless runs. Back in the days, I loved running 2-hours Taveuni, before they even introduced the Kuva reward in there.

BUT, Warframe is a lot more fun in groups. More enemies, synergies between Warframes, teamplay, I love all of this. If I could find a team willing to run endlesses all day, I'd be running endlesses all day. But without any reward, even a small one, a huge chunk of people are simply not interested. And I'm not interested in spending 2 hours finding volunteers before thinking about entering into a long run. So I just gave up, and now I just connect for Sorties.

I'm not lying, I don't care about rewards (even in Sorties - I don't need plat, legendary cores, I don't give a fck about Rivens, I don't need endo, nor any resource or anything). I'd just love they add a small incentive to long runs so that there is a reason for people to go there.

But you're obviously too  to understand any point of view beyond yours. Otherwise you wouldn't qualify me as a "liar" for stating my opinion.

Edited August 30, 2018 by Chewarette

[MiMiren]

No, because most players don't want to be stuck in one gameplay session for more than an hour.

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Equinox21697 said:

So increasing endurance rewards would screw over casuals, but aren't they screwing endurance runners right now?

Nobody is screwing anybody. Normal players don't care about endurance runners. People just wanna play the game and get the shiny loot.

[taiiat]

the game should encourage Players to consider playing for extended periods, yes. Endless Void Tears for example, have very good incentives for playing extended periods (though 99% of Players still don't, but that's their choice).
if all Endless Missions used those as inspirations (not necessarily the same Rewards or Bonuses, just giving some more Rewards here and there in various forms), then you'd have your incentive for Players to play a Mission for longer than one Rotation and you might actually find a solid portion of Players willing to do that from time to time.

 

as ofcourse.... it has nothing to do with making Players that don't want to play for extended periods feel like they are worthless, or making Players that do want to play for extended periods feel like they are shunned, or.... whatever other total ignorant nonsense people come up with.
it is about having some level of incentive for playing for extended periods to encourage more than 1% of Players to wish to do so sometimes. sometimes you feel like playing something short, sometimes you feel like playing something long. so then, why not have Rewards that help Players mentally be willing to play in multiple ways?

because everybody wins if no matter how you play the game it still works for your collection and progression of stuff - which is ultimately the entire game. if a type of content is starkly in the face of progression for Players, then... they won't really feel like playing it almost ever if at all. even if they find it enjoyable, if it makes them feel like they're wasting their time, they're not likely to do that thing that they find enjoyable.
see also: The Division. no matter what type of content you're in the mood for, you're still achieving your progression of collecting stuff. so while certain ways of playing are more efficient than others, if you feel like playing __ Gamemode because you like it, you're still making progress anyways. which is something any game should desire as you then get Players to desire to play all of your types of content without having to force them to by it being the only way to do certain parts of progression.
i think we all know that we prefer to decide we wish to do __ in a game because we're in the mood for it, vs having to do __ because it is the only way to achieve whatever one's current goal may be. remember, that Video Games are two parts of Gameplay and goals. you want Players to be able to hit both targets at once.

[Walkampf]

vor 19 Minuten schrieb Chewarette:

BUT, Warframe is a lot more fun in groups. More enemies, synergies between Warframes, teamplay, I love all of this. If I could find a team willing to run endlesses all day, I'd be running endlesses all day. But without any reward, even a small one, a huge chunk of people are simply not interested. And I'm not interested in spending 2 hours finding volunteers before thinking about entering into a long run. So I just gave up, and now I just connect for Sorties.

How about getting into a Clan with likminded people?

Or getting friends?

vor 20 Minuten schrieb Chewarette:

I'm not lying, I don't care about rewards (even in Sorties - I don't need plat, legendary cores, I don't give a fck about Rivens, I don't need endo, nor any resource or anything).

So you say, that you don't want additional loot.

vor 21 Minuten schrieb Chewarette:

I'd just love they add a small incentive to long runs so that there is a reason for people to go there. 

But you want additional loot.

You claim that it's not for the loot, but it's clearly your intention to increase loot. Sounds like you are lying to me.

[Chewarette]

40 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

So you say, that you don't want additional loot.

But you want additional loot.

You claim that it's not for the loot, but it's clearly your intention to increase loot. Sounds like you are lying to me.

You're obviously not/mis- reading, I wish you a nice day though.

[Airwolfen]

As DE has pretty much already talked about how they want Warframe to be focused on short play rounds instead of long ones. So I hardly see them put time into making rewards scale up for endurance runs and having to balance that. Its simply not in their interest.

As for the early extract, its on the to do list.

[Autongnosis]

Il y a 1 heure, taiiat a dit :

Snip

I fully agree. In fact i still don't know why those endless bonuses are not being considered for every endless mode. 

[peterc3]

10 hours ago, (PS4)Equinox21697 said:

aren't they screwing endurance runners right now

Take a guess as to the number of filthy casuals vs the number of people who are able/willing to to go several hours into the same mission.

[(PSN)OriginalEquinox]

1 hour ago, peterc3 said:

Take a guess as to the number of filthy casuals vs the number of people who are able/willing to to go several hours into the same mission.

True endurance runners are the minority and should get some sort of bonus for having the dedication to stay past 1hr imo, that'll give more players incentive to not rush to extraction at the 5 minute mark

[(PSN)dst123daniel]

As someone already stated above, DE themselves DOES NOT encourage extended hours of game play, they themselves have stated that they prefer players to play more bite sized periods, and so have geared almost everything to go no longer than 20 minutes, at that point the reward rotations reset, so there is nothing to gain going further. It's intended to be that way as DE are an ethical company and so t want players glued to their game at the reduction of their real world lives.

[peterc3]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Equinox21697 said:

True endurance runners are the minority

Then there is nothing to solve or fix. Why should a minority of players get disproportionate rewards?

[Arcira]

20 hours ago, Walkampf said:

No, they aren't. You get objectivly the same rewards.

If the fun of playing endurance runs is not enough for you and you only play endurance runs for the loot, then I'm afraid that there is something fundamentally wrong with your head.

This bahaviour is closer to stockholm syndrom than it is to playing a game for having fun.

Well looting is the one core mechanic of this game. And fun is highly subjective. I´d argue an activity without purpose isn´t fun at all. But if you are satisfied by slaughtering poor grineers just for fun, good for you. But it might be equally disturbing for others people 😉 .

20 hours ago, Ketec said:

Endurance runs punish people  who need to leave early for any reason - you can't quit if you are alone at the exit and others won't come - and if you just stay there, you die - lose affinity and get labelled afk.

Ye because there is absolutely no possible way for a game developer to address this core problem properly.

6 hours ago, peterc3 said:

Then there is nothing to solve or fix. Why should a minority of players get disproportionate rewards?

Congrats, can´t remember seeing a sentence more conceited than this one. Minorities don´t need attention? Who said anything about disproportional rewards? Are you aware that they arn´t a natural minority but the consquence of changes in the past?

Personally I´m not a fan of long farming sessions but I bet there are a lot of people who would like to do endurance runs. However the current system is actively discouraging people from doing long runs. The only thing that scales is difficulty.

Edited August 31, 2018 by Arcira

[Julian_Skies]

18 hours ago, (PS4)Equinox21697 said:

True endurance runners are the minority and should get some sort of bonus for having the dedication to stay past 1hr imo, that'll give more players incentive to not rush to extraction at the 5 minute mark

Tbh I think there should be MORE incentives for rushing to extraction at the 5m mark.

Personally I absolutely dread having to do endless missions for any reason they take far too long and the long play sessions drain the fun out of anything, is rather do four 8m fissure exterminates than one 20m fissure survival.

[peterc3]

11 hours ago, Arcira said:

Personally I´m not a fan of long farming sessions but I bet there are a lot of people who would like to do endurance runs. However the current system is actively discouraging people from doing long runs. The only thing that scales is difficulty.

No, people want to get lots of loot. The idea that people want to do endurance runs but just can't because DE won't let them is a complete lie.

Mot didn't leave the game but the Prime parts there did. People are free to test their hardcore, min-maxed to hell and back builds for 20 hours straight. People either need to drop the pretense.

[DiabolusUrsus]

Endurance runs do not need extra rewards.

If they are fun and challenging whereas shorter missions are not, then the fun and challenge are their own rewards.

If they are not rewarding enough for you in their current state, then endurance runs are not your cup of tea.

If you want to do them, do them. If you can't be bothered, don't. Scaling rewards with playtime will inevitably shift the balance of the grind toward endurance runs, which makes the game less accessible to players who can't invest entire days at a time into playing.

[mrrobotto67]

I think that could work for some players, they would be willing to stay longer to get those some rewards. 

But even then i wouldn't even do endurance runs, to me they are just boring regardless of what i can get. (for example, if i am doing a survival mission, after 40 mins, i am literally falling asleep). 

[Arcira]

On 2018-08-31 at 4:50 PM, peterc3 said:

No, people want to get lots of loot. The idea that people want to do endurance runs but just can't because DE won't let them is a complete lie.

Mot didn't leave the game but the Prime parts there did. People are free to test their hardcore, min-maxed to hell and back builds for 20 hours straight. People either need to drop the pretense.

I didn´t say "they can´t" I said the efficiency drops and that´s a letdown for a lot of people.

Of cause I want loot but I want challenge as well. One aspect of rpg´s is to test your character and build limits and improve them. But if there is nothing to aim for, progression is meaningless. For some people it might be enought doing records but many player want a more appealing reward for there efforts. Nonetheless at the moment endless scaling would be a bad idea anyway. But that´s mainly because balance in this game is a mess. I like to play with my favourite Warframes and don´t want to get forced to abuse some op bs.

[Slimspadey101]

All I can think after reading through this thread is that I hope Raids will be good when they bring them back. I want a time consuming activity that's fun. Survival can be fun but the way rewards are structured isn't going to change and it makes consistently finding long runs frustrating. Apparently there was a time when longer runs were more rewarding but that is history and I accept the reasoning behind that. So the only thing left to address is the experience itself.

I'm at the point where I'm content with my progression and really just want a fun way to use my power, preferably with others in a synergistic way. Survival does that to an extent. The issue I have is the way people want to engage the challenge. Crawling into a hole in the wall and camping is not fun, but it is effective. If anything needs to be addressed I think this is it. This is why more players don't do longer runs imo, but again I think this is a void that's best filled by Raids that have progressive and/or varied mechanics over the course of the mission. I have ideas to improve the fun factor of long survivals but in the end I feel like these ideas might be more suited for a Raid environment.