Snipetron vandal needs a rework

[JohnnyMeta]

It is a weapon that is far below the rest of the sniper weapons. Even Rubico with 180 base damage, has damage multiplier x3 and a 1.5x increase in critical damage with zoom.
Although Snipetron has 4/5 in disposition of riven has 1,17 in points. But very close lanka and rubico, both with 1.10 points second Riven calculator https://semlar.com/rivencalc/snipetron/431
Snipetron Vandal is too short in damage, being the weakest sniper of the game needs a rework.

I'm not a fan of Snipetron Vandal. But it's amazing the difference that exists with the other sniper weapons. But this weapon could balance this weapon so that its use is more just or better.

I do not ask that being physically equal to lanka be as powerful as one. But compared to a Rubico and Vulkar, this weapon is far behind.

Edited September 5, 2018 by JohnnyMeta

[peterc3]

Why are you bringing up Rivens in a discussion regarding the normal weapon balance?

[JohnnyMeta]

il y a 4 minutes, peterc3 a dit :

¿Por qué tratas a Rivens en una discusión sobre el balance normal de armas?

Why despite having a higher disposition. This weapon does not become as surprising as Rubico or Lanka, and even with riven there is a sizeable difference either in weapons statistics. 

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

17 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Why are you bringing up Rivens in a discussion regarding the normal weapon balance?

Agreed.  When you factor out Rivens the Snipetron Vandal is right in its perfect spot - better than Vulkar, but slightly behind the Rubico - and considering their MR requirements, it seems to be right where it should be. (No point even looking at the Vulkar Wraith because its 2 MR above even Snipetron Vandal, so we should expect it to naturally be better)

The Snipetron family also has the best inate punchthrough of all snipers aside only Lanka (and Lanka ONLY gets it on charged shots) ... that may go unnoticed in general, but especially when considering DPS.  It makes it much more "fire into mobs" friendly, which is overall much more suitable for the gameplay of Warframe than the other snipers meant for 1 unit at a time.  In a game with massive mobs, 3m inate punchthrough sounds like a massively redeeming factor even if it doesn't make your numbers per target bigger..  Of course you could slap punchthrough on any sniper, eating up a mod slot... idk about anybody else... but I consider this amazing... Primed Shred is 2.2 Meters and 16 points.... Metal Auger is 2.1 Meters and 15 points... Snipetron Vandal just innately gives better punchtrough than both... at 0 cost and is an MR5 weapon....

This is a classic case of "don't judge it because you don't understand it." 

People need to remember that Rivens aren't supposed to be the defining way to judge guns.  

Edited September 5, 2018 by (PS4)lagrue

[JohnnyMeta]

I understand these weapons well. Besides, it can not be said that Snipetron Vandal is better than Vulkar, when Vulkar has Lasting Purity. In damage, all sniper rifles strike much, much more than Snipetron, ignoring rivens.

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

14 hours ago, JohnnyMeta said:

I understand these weapons well. Besides, it can not be said that Snipetron Vandal is better than Vulkar, when Vulkar has Lasting Purity. In damage, all sniper rifles strike much, much more than Snipetron, ignoring rivens.

Pointing to a very niche mod that most players at MR3 (when they get access to Vulkar) won't have, isn't a very good method to judge a weapon either.  It's base DPS is only about 2/3 what the Snipetron Vandal's is.  It's a mod anywhere from ~1/3 to ~1/6 of people wont' have access to without trading... especially that early... you have to remember DE balanced their weapons around the MR Category, not the mod system - so its redundant for you to try to look at through mods.  

If you're comparing the two weapons side by side, Snipetron Vandal IS statistically better and fits where it belongs in the MR Chart.  You listed basically the only 2 cases where that wouldn't be true, Rivens and with the Augment - both of which not everybody will have.   It's not a great way to measure the gun itself.

Of course Vulkar can be good under specific mod circumstances - but both guns tend to have different benefits.  If you have that augment, then Vulkar will easily hit higher per shot, but when fired into mobs it's gonna stop much sooner, compared to the Snipetron which will clear the crowd hitting almost everything along the way.

Depending on the situation Snipetron could very easily be killing more, faster.  

Edited September 5, 2018 by (PS4)lagrue

[JohnKable]

because, if taking rivens into account the only problem i see is that lanka has just a too high riven disposition. it should be 2/5 and still be hitting hard and still likely to get good rivens since almost any damage stat is good for it.
Im a huge fan of rubico and i dont see it overpowered. the slow reload and 5 mag capacity kinda makes up for all the good about it.

that said snipetron could still get a slight buff as long has it retains its peculiar feeling

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

The Snipetron Vandal kicks like a mule at full zoom with crazy camera shake. I’d like to see a more steady recoil. Also, having the typical headshot multiplier on full zoom is okay, but the Snipetron family could do with a more unique perk instead.

Seriously, the Snipetrons have more kick than the Vectis family of snipers. That’s insane, especially when the Snipetrons have a sizeable magazine clip and they have to get out of scope in order to reload, unlike the Vectis/Prime.

[spirit_of_76]

the big thing with the snipertorn is that it is puncture based and has more innate punch through the thing is that you rarely can use over 1m and it does not benefit from a mag bubble as it is hit scan.  while it has better damage then the rubico it does not have the crit to back that damage up (in either multiplier or chance) then there is its scope buff while if it is used it does out damage the rubico it requires consistent headshots to do so and even then it is not by that much.  what it could use is to be made into a projectile (this gives it mag synergy and part of why the Lanka is so good in normal gameplay) second give it some more damage while it has the second highest base crit of all snipers it lacks the damage that other guns have with only 20 more damage that the rubico but 2/3 the crit multiplier.   (not counting for scope buffs)

[SneakyErvin]

13 hours ago, JohnnyMeta said:

I understand these weapons well. Besides, it can not be said that Snipetron Vandal is better than Vulkar, when Vulkar has Lasting Purity. In damage, all sniper rifles strike much, much more than Snipetron, ignoring rivens.

Yet you neglect the simple fact that Vulkar is impact based and Snipetron is puncture. Just that makes Snipetron a better choice than Vulkar.

Impact is just a bad main stat to have.

[spirit_of_76]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Vulkar is impact based and Snipetron is puncture.  Just that makes Snipetron a better choice than Vulkar.

Impact is just a bad main stat to have.

so it is the second worst sniper in the game for a gun that is MR 5 and is acquired from the invasions It should be on par with the rubico not behind the stock vectic and as such could use 20-40 more damage or some other improvements.

Edited September 5, 2018 by spirit_of_76

[TARINunit9]

15 hours ago, peterc3 said:

Why are you bringing up Rivens in a discussion regarding the normal weapon balance?

 

15 hours ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

Agreed.  When you factor out Rivens the Snipetron Vandal is right in its perfect spot 

This is a classic case of "don't judge it because you don't understand it." 

People need to remember that Rivens aren't supposed to be the defining way to judge guns.  

And yet, my Riven-less Lanka constantly blows my Riven'd Snipetron V out of the water. I'm inclined to agree with OP on this one; even with a supposedly higher fire rate, my Snipetron V cane barely hack it past Sortie level, and is the ONLY sniper i can't use in Eidolons. Even the extra punch through doesn't really matter, enemies rarely come at me more than three in a line, when the extra punch through would really only be noticed when i get 7+ enemies in a line

[peterc3]

1 minute ago, TARINunit9 said:

And yet, my Riven-less Lanka constantly blows my Riven'd Snipetron V out of the water.

You cannot bring Rivens into a discussion about how two weapons compare and how one supposedly needs a rework. Rivens don't factor into game balance. You are also ignoring that your Riven might be garbage. A Riven is not a good or bad mod by default.

[TARINunit9]

14 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

You cannot bring Rivens into a discussion about how two weapons compare and how one supposedly needs a rework. Rivens don't factor into game balance. You are also ignoring that your Riven might be garbage. A Riven is not a good or bad mod by default.

I wholeheartedly disagree. To clarify, my Lanka only has seven mods on it. My Snipetron V has all eight mods on, Riven included

And the Lanka is STILL easily four to five times better in all circumstances against all factions

Edited September 5, 2018 by TARINunit9

[spirit_of_76]

14 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Agreed.  When you factor out Rivens the Snipetron Vandal is right in its perfect spot 

No that is not right the rubico is MR 6 only one MR ahead of the snipertron vandal and as such it should be conditionally  better than the rubico but it does less damage against an armored target by almost half 

[Zeclem]

5 hours ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

you have to remember DE balanced their weapons around the MR Category, not the mod system - so its redundant for you to try to look at through mods.  

this is incorrect. its not redundant to look at balance through mods and de doesnt just ignore the possible mods for the weapons. quite the contrary is the truth actually. 

[Pooroldude]

4 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Rivens don't factor into game balance.

Rivens are a part of game balance. There are many weapons that have gained much power due to the buffing of their stats while also having max dispolarity.

These weapons went on to become the powerhouses of their classes, even becoming the new meta.

Riven dispolarity should be considered before buffs and nerfs are applied.

Although, i do not agree that snipetron needs any buff, it's merely a low mr weapon and it's stats are appropriate.

 

[failedtodiet]

Unless you can see though walls, 3m punch though for a sniper rifle in this game is next to useless.

But tbh, i'll be satisfied if DE let Snipetron Vandal has some niche like improved hip fire accuracy or bouncy bullets. The stats can stay mediocre.

[TARINunit9]

24 minutes ago, spirit_of_76 said:

No that is not right the rubico is MR 6 only one MR ahead of the snipertron vandal and as such it should be conditionally  better than the rubico but it does less damage against an armored target by almost half 

Weird, why did the forums send this notification to me and not lagrue? The quoting system got borked, lol

Edited September 5, 2018 by TARINunit9

[SneakyErvin]

34 minutes ago, spirit_of_76 said:

No that is not right the rubico is MR 6 only one MR ahead of the snipertron vandal and as such it should be conditionally  better than the rubico but it does less damage against an armored target by almost half 

That really doesnt say much cos we dont really know how you've modded the two. With base stats I find it very wierd that a Rubico would outdamage the Snipetron Vandal vs armored targets, unless you of course scew the results by only picking long fights where the Rubico builds combo faster. Or you might be ignoring the zoom mechanic of Snipetron V which requires headshots vs Rubico's c-damage, which comes passivly in every fight aslong as you just ADS.

[peterc3]

40 minutes ago, Pooroldude said:

Rivens are a part of game balance.

They are explicitly not. There is no mission content in the game made that acknowledges Rivens as existing. They are extra, on top of what exists.

41 minutes ago, Pooroldude said:

Riven dispolarity should be considered before buffs and nerfs are applied.

No weapons will be nerfed or buffed because of Rivens. Rivens will have the disposition that they will have because of popularity, not the stats of the weapon.

1 hour ago, TARINunit9 said:

And the Lanka is STILL easily four to five times better in all circumstances against all factions

Either use quantifiable data to back this up or don't make arguments like that. 4-5x better how? By what measure? You still haven't said what the Riven even is.

[spirit_of_76]

33 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

That really doesnt say much cos we dont really know how you've modded the two

both used the same mods: seration, point strike, vital sense, thermite rounds, Hellfire, Stormbringer, and high voltage.  this was done as an anti eidolon comparison where the Snipertron vandal was destroyed.  by everything

[SneakyErvin]

10 minutes ago, spirit_of_76 said:

both used the same mods: seration, point strike, vital sense, thermite rounds, Hellfire, Stormbringer, and high voltage.  this was done as an anti eidolon comparison where the Snipertron vandal was destroyed.  by everything

Well yeah, versus an eidolon that isnt very strange. Those are kinda special targets where the Snipetron (and even the vectis family) cant gain much ground due to having long combo requirements aswell as headshot specific bonuses tied to zoom. The same reason why Rubico is better vs weakpoint bosses aswell since it doesnt require headshots or long wind ups for combo stacks.

That doesnt mean the other guns are trash, they simply arent tailored for such specific fights.

[Erytroxylin]

7 hours ago, JohnKable said:

lanka has just a too high riven disposition

I dunno, pretty sure the Lanka is just about only used for Eidolons. It's projectile, charge, and sniper nature make it garbage for anything else.

[spirit_of_76]

3 minutes ago, Erytroxylin said:

Lanka is just about only used for Eidolons

that and with mag in an Anti corpus setup of with a full squad of CP (again with Mag) for the raw damage as the immense punch through