Low armor frames

[(PSN)AstralSaiyan]

I want to try and not make this sound like a rant so please forgive me it is does. 

Can anyone explain to me why there are frames with 15 and 65 armor? For example Nova, she is a fun frame but my god she has no survivablity and it gets frustrating when squad mates have to keep reviving you because even though you have 700hp it goes down like you had none. Now I would mention Ivara but with her prowl it isn't that bad. But then you have Trinity and Nyx with 15 armor which is crazy. Personally I feel armor for frames should be a minimum of 100. 

 

  Again I am sorry if this sounds like a rant but it has been on my mind ever since I got back into Warframe 3 months ago. 

[LazyBlissIV]

Most frames with low armor tend to have some form of damage reduction, healing, or invulnerability.  The only exception I can think of is Banshee but I suppose she's intended to be a "glass cannon".

[Noibat]

Pretty sure Volt has 10 armor lol. 

 

Really,  once you mod them up and learn to play them evasively, the glass cannons are really quite good.  Nova is one of the best. As is Volt and Trinity.  And Nyx.

 

Volt has a shield which does great,  as well as AoE stun,  Nyx has an invincibility button,  Trinity is probably the hardest frame to kill in the game, aside from a Defy Wukong.  She has Link,  which reduces damage to almost nothing,  plus instant heal abilities. 

 

Nova's first skill actually reduces damage by 5% for every orb that circles her,  up to 90% or so.  She's very survivable. 

 

You just need to learn them,  Tenno! 

[Kaotyke]

Because those are caster frames.

They deal a lot of AoE powers, so they have the drawback of not being able to take a hit.

Others have means to avoid being hit.

[CoolDudeMcCool]

Limbo has the rift and Stasis on top of his 65 base armor, the last bit is probably overkill.

[Sloan441]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)MegaToxic said:

 Personally I feel armor for frames should be a minimum of 100. 

 

Even 100 armor isn't all that much (25% DR or thereabouts) if you just stand around let stuff shoot at you. 

That's the key: don't stand around to be shot. Keep moving. Armor simply reduces damage. Avoiding getting shot in the first place should be your goal. Also, evasive movement like rolling has DR built in if you're hit by fire while performing it. 

Obviously, if you have defensive buffs you should using them, but movement is the real key to avoiding as much damage as possible. 

[Vlada91]

Yea its ridiculous because they are some special sci fi ninja warriors. And random soldiers have more armor then frame and that is just illogical...

[spirit_of_76]

16 minutes ago, LazyBlissIV said:

The only exception I can think of is Banshee but I suppose she's intended to be a "glass cannon".

she has hard cc on her 1 and 3 

21 minutes ago, (PS4)MegaToxic said:

Nova, she is a fun frame but my god she has no survivablity

she has a 75% slow and 70-90 % dr on her 1 use the augment it helps

6 minutes ago, Sloan441 said:

Even 100 armor isn't all that much (25% DR or thereabouts) if you just stand around let stuff shoot at you. 

yep, base armor is pointless to mod for if under 300 that is why Oberon is such a good support as he adds 250-450 flat armor while healing.

also EHP=hp*armor/300+hp

[(PSN)AstralSaiyan]

I get that you have to move around like crazy to not get hit but I don't have the best accuracy. Though I use the Ignis Wraith right now and while I was using Nova in Onslaught (still trying to get Khora) I still go down fast even while jumping around and sliding. The issue with nova I feel is that her 1 will seek out enemies and with high range (which is what is on my speed nova) it makes it useless I feel. I wish I had her augment but it takes long to rank up in syndicates because of the materials you need. 

[spirit_of_76]

are you using your 4 to slow the enemies?  also, she is not the best frame for that mode 

[babywrath]

25 minutes ago, (PS4)MegaToxic said:

-snip-

Armor is given to frames who are required to fight up front and personal. The frames you mentioned are not supposed to tank enemies or even be within fighting range for that matter. They should be hiding behind obstacles and making tactical plays rather than rushing face first into a group of enemies. 

Limbo Prime - rift, Zephyr Prime - Turbulence, Banshee Prime - stealth + stunlock, Ivara - prowl, Loki Prime - invisibility, Mag Prime - pull + crowd control + magnetize?, Mesa - that skill that deflects bullets, Nekros Prime - crowd control + minions, Nova Prime - 1st + 4th ability, Titania - high evasion fairy for 4th, Nyx Prime - crowd control + invulnerability, Trinity Prime - heals and buffs + link.

Besides, you want high energy for most of these frames anyway so just stick a flow + quick thinking and you're set. 

[GPrime96]

46 minutes ago, (PS4)MegaToxic said:

I want to try and not make this sound like a rant so please forgive me it is does. 

Can anyone explain to me why there are frames with 15 and 65 armor? For example Nova, she is a fun frame but my god she has no survivablity and it gets frustrating when squad mates have to keep reviving you because even though you have 700hp it goes down like you had none. Now I would mention Ivara but with her prowl it isn't that bad. But then you have Trinity and Nyx with 15 armor which is crazy. Personally I feel armor for frames should be a minimum of 100. 

 

  Again I am sorry if this sounds like a rant but it has been on my mind ever since I got back into Warframe 3 months ago. 

It’s mostly from their abilities. Nova, and Nyx have Crowd Control but Nyx have Invincibility with Assimilate and can mind Control enemies while Nova can make a group of enemies take 2x damage, DR from her Null Stars, and can do a lot of Radiation damage with her Antimatter Drop. Trinity have DR with her Link and Blessing which makes her reach a very high DR even with her low Armor. So that’s why they need to be Squishy to balance out.

Edited September 11, 2018 by VPrime96

[(XBOX)D00M INCARNATE]

Each frame has some form of survivability. The idea of warframe is to find the playstyles you like.

Nova has damage reduction via her 1. She also slows everything via her 4, making enemies super slow to even try to shoot her.

Trinity has damage reduction and healing via her 4. She can also redirect damage via her 3.

Haven't played Nyx, but from what I understand she controls enemies so they don't hit you in the first place.

Something I've been thinking about: the slogan of the game is "ninjas play free". Ninjas are supposed to avoid damage and be sneaky. Not take it to the face. So why do we have rhino, nidus, inaros, etc?

[(PSN)AstralSaiyan]

19 minutes ago, spirit_of_76 said:

are you using your 4 to slow the enemies?  also, she is not the best frame for that mode 

No I use a speed build for Onslaught but I really do not enjoy speed nova because she seems to die faster. Yeah I am starting to see she is probably not the best for that mode. 

[(XBOX)PredakingXYT]

Min-max my friend, don't give health or armor to glass cannons, just make sure you don't get hit, instead, make sure they hit hard and hit fast. Frames with 15 and 65 armor is the game telling you "No umbral mods with this one, buddy" xD

 

But really, just don't try and make everything tanky, you will end up disappointed with a build that works poorly for your frame.

 

 

[GnarlsDarkley]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)MegaToxic said:

No I use a speed build for Onslaught but I really do not enjoy speed nova because she seems to die faster. Yeah I am starting to see she is probably not the best for that mode.

You clearly don't know how to play her then.

with this build I am usually the last going down

[(PSN)AstralSaiyan]

Just now, (XB1)PredakingXYT said:

Min-max my friend, don't give health or armor to glass cannons, just make sure you don't get hit, instead, make sure they hit hard and hit fast. Frames with 15 and 65 armor is the game telling you "No umbral mods with this one, buddy" xD

 

But really, just don't try and make everything tanky, you will end up disappointed with a build that works poorly for your frame.

 

 

Yeah I am starting to think Vitality and Redirection for a majority of the frames is useless. I have Vitality on my Nova because I have the mentality that more health means more survivability, but I guess that isn't really the case with Warframe. Though I think frames like Nidus can benefit from vitality and especially steel fiber. 

Though Saryn seems to have some AoE skills but I think her base armor is 300? Besides Valkyr I think she is the only other high armor female frame. I know I just made it sound like I play mostly female frames...and while that is somewhat true I do play male frames.  

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

Speed Nova is actually one of the better frames in ESO. It’s honestly more of a change in perspective than a build adjustment/adaptation.

Nova is a glass cannon with a recently discovered DR due to her Power 1. Low Power Strength Molecular Prime will speed enemies’ dps and movement quite a bit, but they will still be susceptible to damage. So, with that just think about what you can do from there. Chain-link dps with the Amprex maybe? Hard ragdoll CC with the Sonicor/Staticor? Slide attack with a long range melee? Play aggressively, move aggressively - that’s the way with Speedva. A slight stroll moght cost you health, so it’s best to be careful in how you move, so be prepared, as you mentioned before, to bulletjump and slide a lot.

[(PSN)AstralSaiyan]

3 minutes ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

You clearly don't know how to play her then.

with this build I am usually the last going down

Ouch a little harsh but seems to be true. I wish the void trader would sell those prime mods because I still don't have them.

[(XBOX)PredakingXYT]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)MegaToxic said:

1. Yeah I am starting to think Vitality and Redirection for a majority of the frames is useless.

2. I have Vitality on my Nova because I have the mentality that more health means more survivability, but I guess that isn't really the case with Warframe. Though I think frames like Nidus can benefit from vitality and especially steel fiber. 

3. I know I just made it sound like I play mostly female frames...and while that is somewhat true I do play male frames.  

2

1. It is, Frames like Volt, Mirage, Nova, Banshee, get 1-2 shot at mid-high lvl gameplay, so defensive mods are a waste, instead I remove those to make room for offensive ability mods, that way they kill the enemy before they get hit

2. Yeah I would take that off and make her other abilities stronger. One test you can use that kind of works is " If I can make this frame much better with ALL the umbral mods, defensive mods are worth it" If that doesn't remain true, likely, you don't want vitality or fiber. Redirection and shields are honestly worthless because while "regenerating health" seems cool, shields don't get armor which means they are even squishier.

3. Female frames are OP, nothing wrong with playing them a lot 😄

[SneakyErvin]

19 minutes ago, (XB1)PredakingXYT said:

1. It is, Frames like Volt, Mirage, Nova, Banshee, get 1-2 shot at mid-high lvl gameplay, so defensive mods are a waste, instead I remove those to make room for offensive ability mods, that way they kill the enemy before they get hit

2. Yeah I would take that off and make her other abilities stronger. One test you can use that kind of works is " If I can make this frame much better with ALL the umbral mods, defensive mods are worth it" If that doesn't remain true, likely, you don't want vitality or fiber. Redirection and shields are honestly worthless because while "regenerating health" seems cool, shields don't get armor which means they are even squishier.

3. Female frames are OP, nothing wrong with playing them a lot 😄

But with umbral mods you get both defense and damage output for slightly more work having to forma more. You only need to fit in 2 umbral mods in most cases to make it worthwhile.

Most frames with very low armor simply dont need that 8th slot for an offensive stat that matter. Your damage comes from 3 mods mostly, the rest is down to efficiency, range and duration, all of which can easily have one mods sacrificed for Vit.

My Volt for instance uses one of the most run of the mill builds, the only difference is I swapped several mods and skipped 15% range and 5% efficiency while gaining more power strength along with vitality through Umbral mods. That too me is a very fair trade because the 15% extra range wont make or break most fights. Nova is another where you simply dont need the 8th slot for anything else. You cant increase her damage output through mods, you rely on your weapons for that. So maxed out dura and then either some positive or negative power strength depending on speed/neutral/slow build. Umbral mods can be used in her slow build, but #*!%s up her neutral and speed builds.

And this isnt to survive the heavy hits, this is to simply survive the stray shots you happen to miss dodging, and having an easier time with status effects higher up.

Fiber on the other hand is a different story, it brings very little unless the frame has substantial armor to begin with. That is easiest to figure out by checking the armor table on the wiki so you know how much you mitigate with and without fiber.

[(PSN)AstralSaiyan]

I don't really use Umbral mods on any frames other than Umbral since he has the polarity for them. 

[DarthBane1]

Each frame has it's own quirk. Most of them are pretty survivable when released. EXE: Nova has the orbs, mag has the polorize, volt has volt shields, etc. You just need to learn the frames. 

 

Usually what I do is I look at the armor, if it's below 100 I put on Redirection. If it's above 150 I put on Vitality and steel fiber. (In between you can do anything. 

Edited September 11, 2018 by DarthBane1

[SneakyErvin]

22 minutes ago, (PS4)MegaToxic said:

I don't really use Umbral mods on any frames other than Umbral since he has the polarity for them. 

I've started to use two of them on most frames. It costs a little bit more capacity but you effectivly get better stats out of it in the end. Say you want a mid strength spec, you had your eyes on Transient Fortitude+Intensify+Power Drift along with a vitality or fiber mod. You can achiev nearly the same with Umbral Intensify+Augur Secrets+Power Drift and Umbral Vit/Fiber. You lose 6% power strength on it but you also remove the penalty that Transient would bring and you get more HP or armor out of it.

It just requires some planning from frame to frame. Some have no use of the mods at all because they dont need power strength. Or in the case of Inaros, Ubral Fiber+Umbral Vit is a lovely combo.

[FlyingDice]

3 hours ago, (PS4)MegaToxic said:

Nova, she is a fun frame but my god she has no survivablity and it gets frustrating

Use Neutron Star. Press 1. When your star count eventually gets too low, detonate and recast. Depending on the state of your mods that's 75-90% DR for Nova. That, your slow, and basic evasive movement will take you through sortie-level content. Anything beyond that and your cell should really have a dedicated defensive caster or hard CC to supplement your slow.