Chroma needs a rework

[CupcakesMoo]

I will do you one better. What use is Chroma to begin with?

[MickThejaguar]

6 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

Another "chroma NEEDS a rework" thread. *Yawn*

I believe I've given a fairly detailed explanation of Chroma's shortcomings on previous thread where you also insisted that he was perfectly fine.

[Xolgys]

in my opinion spectral scream should have synergy with effigy. for example

"when using spectral scream whilst effegy is within X meters effigy will attack the same location/enemy chroma attacks with its own spectral scream with +XX% increased dmg."

also spectral scream needs waaay more base dmg and range to be effective. it locks the frame out of using any weapon so it must have a benefit aside from aoe. imagine running a well built ignis wraith...its like what u imagine a fiery breath to be but instead he breathes more to the ground than anything and the dmg is laughable so using it over ignis wraith is like losing 95% dmg and all the proccs vs armor for example. if it has 0 dmg then it needs some really strong synergy to actually make it worth using.

effigy needs to be either duration based and recastable or lower energy/sec cost. it is stationary aside from the augment so it shouldnt drain so much energy for being a turret.

his passive...oh why not give him +200% to aimglide and increased dmg during aimglide during which he actually uses his wings. his abilities changing with his energy color should not replace a passive whilst his kit is so mediocore. if DE think its an issue how fast eidolons die then dont blame the frames and rather make ur bossfights more challenging...

i dont do eidolons, i dont care because i dont find them fun so i cant 100% tell how easy or difficult the "new" eidolons are. back when the teralyst was the only eidolon i alrdy didnt enjoy it, but seeing ppl do quick runs of all 3 and farming them literally makes me really question the difficulty so dont nerf frames for bossfights which could be made more challenging instead.

point being: buff chroma again. he was the eidolon killer for sure but why was it even possible ? chromas dmg buff has been in the game for so long so DE surely knew it when they made the eidolon fight. adapt the fight which came afterwards, dont killnerf the frame for it....casue honestly ? i was never a chroma main or anything, i still played him here and there though. now ? i'd rather use oberon or any other frame with similar tank/dmg buffs than him cause they can do each better and offer more useful abilities overall than just #2 and #3.

make chroma worth using again. at least now that his prime comes around care for him again, please. even if u dont want to give him back his, admitedly, insane dmg buff then give him other ways to stand out again. im not saying hes bad right now, but hes also not outstanding imo. other frames offer way more overall and his different ability versions depending on energy color are no argument to keep each kit version mediocore. not even mentioning that fire and ice are cleary better on average imo.

[Sajochi]

48 minutes ago, MickThejaguar said:

Nobody has been quiet about his problems. The problem is that every time a post about him pops up you get 5 or 6 comments from people saying he doesn't need a rework because of how good he is at damaging Eidolons.

Here's a past chroma thread without that 

everyone there for the most part agreed chroma has issues and were offering solutions without anyone even considering eidolons. The issue lies in the current fotm frame getting a load of attention pushing other frame threads into the next page (Vauban tweaks, revanant release, and very recently the nezha revisit). Chroma has that spot now, which is why the threads somewhat exploded. But we have no indication he's getting any changes. 

Edited September 16, 2018 by Sajochi

[Joe_Barbarian]

1 minute ago, MickThejaguar said:

I believe I've given a fairly detailed explanation of Chroma's shortcomings on previous thread where you also insisted that he was perfectly fine.

You gave your opinions on what you thought was wrong with it and as I said in that thread he has a decent niche at the moment. He's not in dire need as you and others try and make him out to be. Chroma is being used, he's not being carried by 1 ability, I just can't be bothered to waste more than a post or two on people such as yourself pretending the sky is falling when it's just a little rain.

[MokutoBunshi]

1 minute ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

You gave your opinions on what you thought was wrong with it and as I said in that thread he has a decent niche at the moment. He's not in dire need as you and others try and make him out to be. Chroma is being used, he's not being carried by 1 ability, I just can't be bothered to waste more than a post or two on people such as yourself pretending the sky is falling when it's just a little rain.

I posted this because frames tend to get attention when there is a prime/deluxe, so yes, I posted literally because I know everyone else is also likely posting.

Also, tfw when two commentors start talking about a different post in your post...

Guess i'll just...

[MokutoBunshi]

14 minutes ago, CupcakesMoo said:

I will do you one better. What use is Chroma to begin with?

Eidolon hunts maybe and not much else, hence the thread and letting him strip armor, CC enemies, etc.

[Joe_Barbarian]

1 minute ago, MokutoBunshi said:

I posted this because frames tend to get attention when there is a prime/deluxe, so yes, I posted literally because I know everyone else is also likely posting.

Also, tfw when two commentors start talking about a different post in your post...

Guess i'll just...

You forgot to yawn

[MokutoBunshi]

Just now, Joe_Barbarian said:

You forgot to yawn

Guess I'll just yawn then? 

[Zeclem]

33 minutes ago, MokutoBunshi said:

Eidolon hunts maybe and not much else, hence the thread and letting him strip armor, CC enemies, etc.

you mean the frame that has a damage/armor buff aura that is also one of the strongest (damage portion is quite a lot more stronger than rhinos roar for example) is useless to you? 

[Ragingwasabi]

14 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

you mean the frame that has a damage/armor buff aura that is also one of the strongest (damage portion is quite a lot more stronger than rhinos roar for example) is useless to you? 

having 1 good ability doent excuse you from having 3 other subpar abilities

[MickThejaguar]

54 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

He's not in dire need as you and others try and make him out to be.

That's pretty easy to proclaim when you ignore all of his flaws.

56 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

Chroma is being used

That doesn't mean he's a well made frame, he just has a single really good ability that does all the work for him, same as Wukong, another frame that everyone wants to be reworked.

57 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

he's not being carried by 1 ability

His only viable builds are some variation of a Vex Armor build. He most definitely is being carried by a single ability.

 

[Zeclem]

18 minutes ago, Ragingwasabi said:

having 1 good ability doent excuse you from having 3 other subpar abilities

good thing he has 2 abilities then. 

[butka1998]

14 minutes ago, MickThejaguar said:

That's pretty easy to proclaim when you ignore all of his flaws.

That doesn't mean he's a well made frame, he just has a single really good ability that does all the work for him, same as Wukong, another frame that everyone wants to be reworked.

His only viable builds are some variation of a Vex Armor build. He most definitely is being carried by a single ability.

 

I dont know but to me chroma is fine. Also being carried by one or two abilities .... Well that will awlays be the case no matter what.... For one simple reason and that is one ability will always outshine others (or combo of 2 abilities like with 1st and 4th for octavia, 2nd and 3rd for chroma, 1st and 2nd for nidus etc). And to be honest chroma is fine right now. He has great dmg he is tanky and thats basicaly all I want from frame I want to use for exterminate or bossfight for other situations I have other frames.

[MokutoBunshi]

8 minutes ago, butka1998 said:

I dont know but to me chroma is fine. Also being carried by one or two abilities .... Well that will awlays be the case no matter what.... For one simple reason and that is one ability will always outshine others (or combo of 2 abilities like with 1st and 4th for octavia, 2nd and 3rd for chroma, 1st and 2nd for nidus etc). And to be honest chroma is fine right now. He has great dmg he is tanky and thats basicaly all I want from frame I want to use for exterminate or bossfight for other situations I have other frames.

When you design a character in a multi character game, each one gets a power budget for their character so they stay about as strong as the others despite being so different.

Well designed frames can have abilities out shine one another, and there is even one ability that is meant for that. The ultimate; it SHOULD out shine all the others. Well designed frames tend to have ultimates that out shine the others: Octavia and Harrow are both (imo) pretty well designed, and they both have very powerful ultimates. 

 

I agree that Chroma is USEFUL, but he could be much more useful, he just needs a few changes.

[_Urakaze_]

50 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

you mean the frame that has a damage/armor buff aura that is also one of the strongest (damage portion is quite a lot more stronger than rhinos roar for example) is useless to you? 

actually depending on the weapon builds, rhino roar can be stronger than vex armour, since vex damage bonus is additive

[butka1998]

1 minute ago, MokutoBunshi said:

When you design a character in a multi character game, each one gets a power budget for their character so they stay about as strong as the others despite being so different.

Well designed frames can have abilities out shine one another, and there is even one ability that is meant for that. The ultimate; it SHOULD out shine all the others. Well designed frames tend to have ultimates that out shine the others: Octavia and Harrow are both (imo) pretty well designed, and they both have very powerful ultimates. 

 

I agree that Chroma is USEFUL, but he could be much more useful, he just needs a few changes.

Well if you are refering to "ultimate" based on experience from moba like LoL..... I have to disapoint you. Because skills like that work on mana/cooldown budget but in warframe theres no CD and energy? One consumable and you are up again (or zenurik or nidus with rage mod etc) so out shining abilities like ultimate that are stronger because they are much more limited (thus the name ultimate ability or super in destiny 2) arent thing in warframe. Yes we can see more power in abilities the more they cost (4th ability mainly) but as I said you can pretty much ignore energy cost if you take right messures. So if you take that into account other than energy/power ratio there shouldnt be ability thats too much more usefull than the other but there will always be this one ability (or combo of 2) that will be go to for most people because they are simply too good and if you change them the same thing will happen again. (yes there is a chance of perfectly balanced frame but its higly unlikely so one build frames will alway be a thing)

[Damocles]

How about a little more imagination? What if, 1 has the toggle you mentioned and can have life steal so it's worth using.
 

For 4, imagine not summoning an effigy, but BEING the effigy, like an exalted Warframe rather than an exalted weapon. Effigy will gain effects from the Warframe mods (as expected) but also melee mods so condition overload can be a thing. That way we solve the creativity issue that lacks scaling potential and introduce a new concept of being a badass dragon.

[butka1998]

2 minutes ago, Descent-of-Damocles said:

How about a little more imagination? What if, 1 has the toggle you mentioned and can have life steal so it's worth using.
 

For 4, imagine not summoning an effigy, but BEING the effigy, like an exalted Warframe rather than an exalted weapon. Effigy will gain effects from the Warframe mods (as expected) but also melee mods so condition overload can be a thing. That way we solve the creativity issue that lacks scaling potential and introduce a new concept of being a badass dragon.

well I dont know about the 1st but you got me with 4th.... I must say that I would love to be able to fly (wings animation already present and flying? well titania already is so why not chroma) and "exalted breath weapon" to top it off.. thats one change I would certainly agree with....

[EinheriarJudith]

7 hours ago, (XB1)Neon Lights9212 said:

i have a better passive for him.  while i understand why you want the aim glide passive, it doesnt fit his kit.  

 

my idea was a passive that functions like a watered down rage mod.  since his main defensive abilities require him to take damage, might as well give him another benefit from taking that damage

id give him a passive that plays on elemental ward. could be "while elemental ward is active chance to dawn all elements.

[MickThejaguar]

2 hours ago, butka1998 said:

I dont know but to me chroma is fine. Also being carried by one or two abilities .... Well that will awlays be the case no matter what.... For one simple reason and that is one ability will always outshine others (or combo of 2 abilities like with 1st and 4th for octavia, 2nd and 3rd for chroma, 1st and 2nd for nidus etc). And to be honest chroma is fine right now. He has great dmg he is tanky and thats basicaly all I want from frame I want to use for exterminate or bossfight for other situations I have other frames.

Yes, it's common for frames to have an ability that stands out over the rest but a lot of those lesser abilities are still decent. There is a big difference between having a good kit with one particular ability standing out and having a bad kit where one ability does all the work. Chroma has two abilities that you should just never use, one ability that's half good (Toxin and Electric Elemental Ward could use a touch up) and on ability that provides almost of his tank and damage. Comparing him to Nidus who you also mentioned, all of Nidus' abilities are good. Nidus does not have a single ability that feels worthless. Chroma does. That's why people want him reworked.

[(PSN)Shadow_Of_Hunhow]

5 hours ago, MokutoBunshi said:

Chroma NEEDS a rework.

But why though? You may be asking. Simple, the only buttons people use ALL the time are his 2 and his 3, and his 4 actually makes it HARDER to use his 2(cold and electric forms) and 3!

As a tank, (a self damage one too!) loosing 50% of your armor should give A LOT MORE than a 20% speed boost and a turret (something that belongs on Vauban's 2 to help round him out, but I digress, that's a discussion for another day...).

 

Meat of the post/the TL;DR is on the "change" parts:

 

Spectral Scream, give it increased innate punch through and range so that Maximized Ability Range (with mods) is like the Effigy elemental stream, maxing at about 22-24 meters. 

Increase the tick rate, also, just like Ivara's quiver, it would change to: tap to change and hold to breathe. Change what you might ask? Element of the warframe. There is NO REASON that Chroma should have to get ONE element during a mission. His whole theme is adaptability, and frankly he could use the extra power in his kit,(asides from just using elemental ward and vex armor all the time with the occasional effigy he doesn't have much). Especially when his Q+Vex still just does flat damage. At the very least you need to change to enemies weaknesses, which is where the skill would come from in the new kit. This could be implemented using a similar code to concept Khora's IPS changing and on hit we know it works due to Revenant.

I am guessing some people could have issues with this idea like, Tapping to change, me no like. Or, changing elements before a mission is part of his skill or... vex armor is enough for the spectral scream! Or, what about having a passive! Just, please wait till the end of the post, maybe I can change your mind.

Change: Tap 1 to change elements, hold 1 to breathe, increased range, increased tick rate.

 

Elemental Ward, should obey the element on his 1 ability. Allowing it to change as well.

Change: Elemental Ward of an adapting dragon.

 

Vex Armor, to be honest, it had its changes, its also a aura now and recastable so it works quite well.

Change: None.

 

His 4 is a good concept, but has poor execution... imagine what you SHOULD be able to do with TWO dragons breathing element together!! 

 

Change: 10-20% more range (and 50% more width or punch through) at base and let it be affected by range mods. It is now duration based. Tap 4 to change effigy's elements. If both dragons are aiming at the same enemies, they will get the combined element on hit (to bypass other warframe's statuses). HOLD 4 to make the pelt attack an area that you aim towards. If that area is beyond its range it will move (same movement speed as Chroma) in that direction until it is in range, with or without enemies present; Doing its area of effect attack as it moves.

  Reveal hidden contents

My guess is pseudo code for the Effigy would be something like:

 

If Effigymove effigymovement(float range < targetdistance)

Effigymove.towardenemy;

else if (its there change targets to it)

else 

continue firing;

 

Passive: If an enemy has been afflicted with statuses, say, corrosive, heat and cold. Any element that Chroma (lets say electricity...) is combined with the first primary element type. So now said enemy in the example is taking corrosive, and Radiation and cold statuses. Because heat+electricity changed to radiation. The combined scream status is re-applied per tick of his Q. His secondary passive of gold on effigy stays and is now even easier to use because it moves to the action on command.

 

Change: First primary element affecting an enemy combines with Chroma's Scream element.

 

Other than ranges to allow him to cast better, most of the rework wouldn't need increased numbers or scaling percentages because Chromas utility and synergy (in the kit and team wide,) would go up and as a result, and provide frame usefulness through diversity and adaptability solo, or in a group.

I hope some of this happens when ever Chroma gets a deluxe skin! [DE]Pablo please!

]\'[

I like a lot of your ideas, however an easier thing to do is fuse vex armor and elemental ward into a single ability, and then make his 1 more like a hybrid of Equinox 1st and Ivara's quiver, where tapping lets you choose your element and then hold switches to it, releasing an elemental explosion upon changing as if he's purging the previous elemental energy from his body.

[butka1998]

1 hour ago, MickThejaguar said:

Yes, it's common for frames to have an ability that stands out over the rest but a lot of those lesser abilities are still decent. There is a big difference between having a good kit with one particular ability standing out and having a bad kit where one ability does all the work. Chroma has two abilities that you should just never use, one ability that's half good (Toxin and Electric Elemental Ward could use a touch up) and on ability that provides almost of his tank and damage. Comparing him to Nidus who you also mentioned, all of Nidus' abilities are good. Nidus does not have a single ability that feels worthless. Chroma does. That's why people want him reworked.

I dont think his abilities are useless his 4th is good for defense missions or for interception and his first is basically weaker ignis and honestly most of the frames have somewhat not very used or good first ability (frost, ember, volt, loki, excalibur,....) its more of a thing if it fits the kit than its about the ability being bad at this point.

[(PSN)supernova_girlie]

My problem with Chroma is that he is tough to balance. I only use Ice Chroma, so I want to get that high damage buff, but sometimes I want to use his effigy, but this requires decent efficiency. His first ability does nothing, I think even if I went to Earth and tried to kill the enemies with his first ability it wouldn't work. So I bought a second Chroma. Now I have an Umbra Chroma and a Credit Dragon Chroma! I use Umbra Dragon to give squad major damage buff in boss fights or to see my weakest weapons do crazy things.

[NinjaZeku]

2 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

id give him a passive that plays on elemental ward. could be "while elemental ward is active chance to dawn all elements.

What do you mean by "dawn" here?

Also, a passive that only activates while a certain ability is active is not a passive but a function of that ability.