(PS4)KiillahX

Please bring the Old Raids back.

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Please bring the old raids back. Really miss them. Plains of Eidolon don't really give players the same 8 players experience as the old raids. Frankly, the teamwork for eidolon hunt is very weak. It would be nice to see more missions or content where 8 players can play together.

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19 minutes ago, (PS4)KiillahX said:

Plains of Eidolon don't really give players the same 8 players experience as the old raids.

They aren't designed to be the same thing, so the fact they aren't the same thing isn't a reason to bring them back.

They aren't a priority, not even on the list of things to do. They broke easily, had no real drive behind them from the devs and were used by players in the single digit percent range.

If they do come back they won't be the same thing they were.

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I doubt they'll come back. 

 

I mean, raids were really only used for Arcanes. They transferred this to Eidolons. Many people don't like this as it is now very common to get arcanes. 

 

However, when raids were being used it was very hard to do. This is because even getting a group of 8 people together let alone a good group that worked together was hard. 

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2 minutes ago, DarthBane1 said:

I doubt they'll come back. 

 

I mean, raids were really only used for Arcanes. They transferred this to Eidolons. Many people don't like this as it is now very common to get arcanes. 

¬†ÔĽŅ

However, when raids were being used it was very hard to do. This is because even getting a group of 8 people together let alone a good group that worked together was hard. 

And don't forget that they broke very often.

If trials are ever to come back, it will not be in the same shape or form they used to be.

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Just now, Genitive said:

And don't forget that they broke very often.

If trials are ever to come back, it will not be in the same shape or form they used to be.

I don't think that's quite true. I have done Law of Retribution over a thousand times and it only started breaking a few months before they announced they will be taking it out. Even then finding a group for LoR or JV was never difficult, always daily runner you can find any time of the day. I am not saying bring the same old Raids back but add more changes and bring something with 8 players back. I have close to 400 hydrolyst captures and I don't really understand why I even bother doing it any more. Its the same boring routine every day and almost no teamwork. 

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Eidolons we're a first step towards some kind of true boss fights imo, with a bit of work maybe in the Tau System we'll have some kind of traditional dungeon/raid type of missions were we go through multiple bosses and hordes of ads. I feel like Kela De Thaym also came close to those traditional boss fights, so hopefully, in the future we'll get more engaging enemies that can build up to a fight that really feels like a raid. To me LoR didn't feel like a raid, it just felt like a glorified puzzle mission.

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I doubt raids will make it back. It isnt a popular enough concept so not really worth it out of a resource/time perspective. Not many non-trinity games have successful raids. Even GW2 had to move towards a trinity based systems when they introduced raids, like a trinity-lite system with classes that can actually heal decently.

No point to try it a second time when the first time was unsuccessful to the point where you decide to remove the mode.

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Raids were easy enough but they were also super boring, really buggy, required you to get 4 people on top of that, and do three missions to get 1 thing. Additionally many of the communities that sprung up around it were super toxic, and would usually demand a meta that was even more boring which defies sanity. If you ask me removing them was a good call. And if they come back I hope its with some serious reworks.

Edited by TermiteFrame
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I don't even necessarily think it requires 8 players... it would just be nice to have some content on a daily or weekly reset that requires a little more team coordination than just bringing your fastest/highest DPS frame like Sorties currently do.

Eidolons are fun, but the meta there is just killing a boss as quickly as possible, and that's really all we're getting with Fortuna's spider bots (as far as I can tell).

I feel like Railjack is when there will be the most potential for this kind of gameplay though. There's an extra level of teamwork required there. Though they've also kind of killed a bit of that potential by saying that you can get upgrades that will man turrets for you and stuff if you don't have a full team. But we'll see how all of that turns out next year, I guess.

I started playing before raids were removed, but I never actually got to play one. I'm not sure why people hated them so much. Maybe because the rewards didn't match the difficulty? Or maybe because they prefer to just endlessly grind the same easy missions over and over? Everyone who plays this game seems so focused on just speedrunning through repetitive content over and over, it gets a little tedious for me.

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9 minutes ago, HomicidalGrouse said:

I don't even necessarily think it requires 8 players... it would just be nice to have some content on a daily or weekly reset that requires a little more team coordination than just bringing your fastest/highest DPS frame like Sorties currently do.

Eidolons are fun, but the meta there is just killing a boss as quickly as possible, and that's really all we're getting with Fortuna's spider bots (as far as I can tell).

I feel like Railjack is when there will be the most potential for this kind of gameplay though. There's an extra level of teamwork required there. Though they've also kind of killed a bit of that potential by saying that you can get upgrades that will man turrets for you and stuff if you don't have a full team. But we'll see how all of that turns out next year, I guess.

I started playing before raids were removed, but I never actually got to play one. I'm not sure why people hated them so much. Maybe because the rewards didn't match the difficulty? Or maybe because they prefer to just endlessly grind the same easy missions over and over? Everyone who plays this game seems so focused on just speedrunning through repetitive content over and over, it gets a little tedious for me.

You go from a high octane killing spree to a buggy mess where everyone has to stand on a bunch of buttons, it basic pacing was normal, so people would try to do what they do with eidolions now: complete it as fast as possible, and thus metas for getting the mission done quickly were born. And 80% of them were either even more boring, relied on bugs, or both. And instead of having a boss at the end of each mission, you only get to fight (and that in itself is a stretch) one. Out of the two Jordas raid was the least obnoxious since there was less crippling metas on what frames you could use and what aura's you could bring. Most of the neat stuff that was in jordas (1 inside team damaging internal systems, 1 outside team using archwing to damage the exterior) appears to be coming back in the form of rail jack.

tl;dr you are not missing much.
P.S. everyone gets mad when co-op stuff gets sacrificed for better solo plat (which honestly doesn't happen all that much) but when it comes to sacrificing solo play for co-op stuff it feels like no one bats an eye.

Edited by TermiteFrame

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You can bring the feeling back by refusing to help open a buddy door until everyone is arranged in a very specific order with only certain loadouts equipped. Then wait there for 5 minutes between each door. 

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Man I miss raids as well. I've run over 700 JVS. There is legit no endgame for me anymore other than to get to 100,000 plat. I've capped about 800 Hydrolysts and am now bored of Eidolons. I never got tired of raids. 

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Warframe is a solo friendly game. People are used to simply playing by themselves with little coop. Remember back to when you were new to the game up till now. You would either do all missions solo or pubs whilst knowing you could probably solo it if you had better stuff. Even with Alliances and Clans, people can pretty much build their own without much trouble. Clans also have the UI to support cooperation without communication by simply piling up resources. When playing high level content like sorties and Eidolons, solo play is always an option, although it is met with much difficulty. My point being that, raids are exclusively team based game play. It is very hard to learn by yourself and experiment with. You have to rely on youtube videos and forum posts just to be able to learn enough to be allowed to join a group. People who learn to optimize have no patience for those who are just starting to learn. Sure you have those awesome school bus people who train tennos and hold their hands while raiding but this effort is still very taxing. Imagine having to take a licensing class to play a game mode. Totally not worth it for me and apparently most of the community. I had like less than 10 arcanes till they were transferred to Eidolons. 

Until they create a raid that is more friendly towards exclusively solo players and players who normally pub, people will not appreciate dev's efforts in making raids come back. Im not saying raids should be sortie level difficulty. They simply need to be doable with a single player doing all the work while filling the minimum number of players with pubs. Exactly how all the gameplay in this game works. Eidolons are the perfect example of this game play. Doing it solo you can without a doubt complete one Tridolon hunt in a night but with others of the same skill level and expertise you can complete 3-5 in one night. It is rewarding to cooperate but is not a definitive requirement. 

TLDR: I shouldn't have to be excluded for having poor social skills and an inconsistent schedule. I should instead be encouraged/rewarded to play with others. 

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2 hours ago, peterc3 said:

They aren't designed to be the same thing, so the fact they aren't the same thing isn't a reason to bring them back.

Directly from [DE]Megan in "A Temporary Future of Warframe Trials":

Quote

Taking down a Teralyst mirrors the tactics of a Trial in terms of teamwork and communication, but can also be done as a lower-level player if properly prepared. Eventually adding Trial Arcanes as a reward from the Teralysts is the first step in the overall plan to temporarily put Trials to rest.

Eidolons are supposed to be a replacement to Trials in terms of the nature of cooperative missions, and in addition is made more accessible to lower level players.

2 hours ago, peterc3 said:

[...] and were used by players in the single digit percent range.ÔĽŅ

What are these values? If you are referring to a small graph taken over one summer weekend, that metric does not account for the years of their existence. Major updates influence what nodes players are visiting. This is easily seen with Acolytes, Double Boosters, Plague Star, and more.

I do agree that asking for "Old Trials" is pointless given Digital Extremes has expressed that Trials will have a temporary rest much like Dark SectorsOmegaLUL and be added again in a different manner to be improved. The old Trials will not return sadly.

Edited by Voltage
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9 hours ago, babywrath said:

Warframe is a solo friendly game. People are used to simply playing by themselves with little coop. Remember back to when you were new to the game up till now. You would either do all missions solo or pubs whilst knowing you could probably solo it if you had better stuff. Even with Alliances and Clans, people can pretty much build their own without much trouble. Clans also have the UI to support cooperation without communication by simply piling up resources. When playing high level content like sorties and Eidolons, solo play is always an option, although it is met with much difficulty. My point being that, raids are exclusively team based game play. It is very hard to learn by yourself and experiment with. You have to rely on youtube videos and forum posts just to be able to learn enough to be allowed to join a group. People who learn to optimize have no patience for those who are just starting to learn. Sure you have those awesome school bus people who train tennos and hold their hands while raiding but this effort is still very taxing. Imagine having to take a licensing class to play a game mode. Totally not worth it for me and apparently most of the community. I had like less than 10 arcanes till they were transferred to Eidolons. 

Until they create a raid that is more friendly towards exclusively solo players and players who normally pub, people will not appreciate dev's efforts in making raids come back. Im not saying raids should be sortie level difficulty. They simply need to be doable with a single player doing all the work while filling the minimum number of players with pubs. Exactly how all the gameplay in this game works. Eidolons are the perfect example of this game play. Doing it solo you can without a doubt complete one Tridolon hunt in a night but with others of the same skill level and expertise you can complete 3-5 in one night. It is rewarding to cooperate but is not a definitive requirement. 

TLDR: I shouldn't have to be excluded for having poor social skills and an inconsistent schedule. I should instead be encouraged/rewarded to play with others. 

Well, at the risk of being crucified for bring it up, Destiny's raids are largely considered to be some of that series' best content. 

I refuse to believe DE couldn't do something that's fun and scratches the same itch for the people who want to play it. 

There's plenty of content in this game for you to "solo"... but that same objective of wanting everything to be easy enough to solo/pub and require little or no actual teamwork is why people facesmash content within the first couple days of its release and then go around talking about content droughts. It's why DE implements time gates like daily standing limits specifically to slow progress and prevent people from doing that. 

How people can complain about a lack of end-game content while also not wanting one of the most obvious forms of end-game content is beyond me. Just because DE didn't get it right the first time doesn't mean they couldn't do something similar and better that satisfies most. 

Edited by HomicidalGrouse

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8 hours ago, HomicidalGrouse said:

Well, at the risk of being crucified for bring it up, Destiny's raids are largely considered to be some of that series' best content. 

I refuse to believe DE couldn't do something that's fun and scratches the same itch for the people who want to play it. 

There's plenty of content in this game for you to "solo"... but that same objective of wanting everything to be easy enough to solo/pub and require little or no actual teamwork is why people facesmash content within the first couple days of its release and then go around talking about content droughts. It's why DE implements time gates like daily standing limits specifically to slow progress and prevent people from doing that. 

How people can complain about a lack of end-game content while also not wanting one of the most obvious forms of end-game content is beyond me. Just because DE didn't get it right the first time doesn't mean they couldn't do something similar and better that satisfies most. 

I don't play destiny so I dont have an idea of that kind of raid. But the problem with the raids that we had before was that, it forced coop with no real synergy. Eidolon can be soloed but with very niche builds and with great skill and difficult. When cooping Eidolon we are not necessarily stuck to playing them with specific actions or builds. Obviously metas exists but they are not required for pubs. You can run Rhino or Chroma, Trinity or Oberon, with/without Harrow, etc. You can even take any frames you like for it and still manage a Tricap assuming you have the amps. This reduces the stress on people and encourages them to actually do it rather than forget about it. 

I am all for raids and coop necessary content. I used to play WOW so I definitely know what it feels like to work with 30 people for the same goal. The trouble here is how they implement the coop portion of raids. Forcing people to stand on buttons doesn't build camaraderie and is plain boring. Take the new spaceship mechanic they are building. That is a good example of synergy. One plays the rat, others the maze controller, others defend. It also isn't necessary because you can upgrade them to be able to do solo or something (not sure). In any case, I do hope they implement some sort of raid system but just don't band-aid the one they took out and put it back in and call it a day. 

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On 2018-09-24 at 5:06 PM, (PS4)dA_BLoK_iS_hOt said:

Man I miss raids as well. I've run over 700 JVS. There is legit no endgame for me anymore other than to get to 100,000 plat. I've capped about 800 Hydrolysts and am now bored of Eidolons. I never got tired of raids. 

Well said brother. A true tenno who knows how to raid. I have done it over thousand times, bug never bothered me. Those complaining about it just admit that you all sucked and didn't know how to play. When you raid with 8 or 6 of your best friends or daily runner, there is nothing better than that. 

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Same thing for me, never get tired of thems and people who i know that don't like raids don't know how to do them (even if some people surely know and don't like them but mostly not)

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On ‚Äé2018‚Äé-‚Äé09‚Äé-‚Äé27 at 3:43 PM, (PS4)KiillahX said:

Well said brother. A true tenno who knows how to raid. I have done it over thousand times, bug never bothered me. Those complaining about it just admit that you all sucked and didn't know how to play. When you raid with 8 or 6 of your best friends or daily runner, there is nothing better than that. 

Gotta love a "No true scotsman" argument...

I'm in favour of bringing back raids, but in their old format, they seemed slow and clunky, so I never bothered with them. That, and I didn't yet have a craving for more in-depth content. I'd be more in favour of Raids that engineer interesting combat scenarios rather than buttons and infested golf. Railjack, with its use of multiple different combat formats interlinking, seems a perfect vessel for that in my book. Raiding a fleet of ships where a Railjack carries eight Tenno into a rolling battle where we need to leap from ship to ship using Archwing as well as providing heavier suppressive fire and logistical support from the 'Jack with a final assault on half-complete Fomorian Death-Star as its systems slowly come online as a final boss run.

Now, THAT sounds like a trial.

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On 2018-09-28 at 8:16 PM, Loza03 said:

Gotta love a "No true scotsman" argument...

I'm in favour of bringing back raids, but in their old format, they seemed slow and clunky, so I never bothered with them. That, and I didn't yet have a craving for more in-depth content. I'd be more in favour of Raids that engineer interesting combat scenarios rather than buttons and infested golf. Railjack, with its use of multiple different combat formats interlinking, seems a perfect vessel for that in my book. Raiding a fleet of ships where a Railjack carries eight Tenno into a rolling battle where we need to leap from ship to ship using Archwing as well as providing heavier suppressive fire and logistical support from the 'Jack with a final assault on half-complete Fomorian Death-Star as its systems slowly come online as a final boss run.

Now, THAT sounds like a trial.

Railjack is 8 players? Thought it was 4?

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52 minutes ago, (PS4)KiillahX said:

Railjack is 8 players? Thought it was 4?

So far as we know it is four people. It's just that according to the sizes from Devstream 117, it could comfortably hold more than that.

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42 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

So far as we know it is four people. It's just that according to the sizes from Devstream 117, it could comfortably hold more than that.

Agreed!! 8 Player contents makes the game so much better. 

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You can don't like raids but that don't change the fact that a lot of veterans get connected every day to do them and enjoy them with their close friends everyday. For most of them, that was the only end-game content of the game (akka fasionframe) that can be play everyday for years.. (i literraly play them every day for years), i know they need to be refont, but not bringing back a gamemode that is really end-game will be a $&*^ move

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my biggest problem with the raids was finding enough skilled ppl to do them... allways ended up being 2-3 ppl carrying the raid...

 

altho making a 4 man raid with the same scope would be awsome...

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