Being perma-Sortie-banned is really demotivating (Road to 150 Rivens)

[JohnKable]

The real problem is that every riven is unique and takes up server space.

i really don’t get why riven stats hasn’t been normalized yet.

i mean for example if you get crit chance on a riven with a disposition of 3/5 and only 2 positives the value is set to 180%

if it has a negative it will be 200.

i really don’t see the point of having the single digits even after the decimal being rolled and saved for every single riven in the game.

sure that makes ever riven a bit unique, but still there is no point. It’s a Diablo style loot system that is old like crap

[Jeancly]

honestly this is a ticket issue... just do a ticket about it... i mean... being able to go that much above the cap is a system problem, which resulted in you not being even able to trade them

[WhiteMarker]

1 hour ago, Jeancly said:

honestly this is a ticket issue... just do a ticket about it... i mean... being able to go that much above the cap is a system problem, which resulted in you not being even able to trade them

There is no problem.
The OP could sell the Rivens whenever he wants. He decided not to sell any riven. And now he ran into this "problem". But he clearly knew about the limit.
So it's not the limits fault, it's OP's fault.

[DoomFruit]

12 hours ago, OvisCaedo said:

You shouldn't underestimate just how badly designed and implemented rivens were. It probably could have cut down on their storage cost a lot if they hadn't decided that, aside from the several thousand possible stat combinations, each stat also had to have a random range to roll in that necessitates also storing specific values for each one.

Problem is that DE can't do that. They as an institution have some kind of pathological gambling addiction in that they feel a compulsive need to stick an RNG dependency into everything (the pathology comes from the fact that this gambling is what's distributed to others, thus spreading the "infection"). Taking out the random chance would be utterly unthinkable.

[Jeancly]

2 hours ago, WhiteMarker said:

There is no problem.
The OP could sell the Rivens whenever he wants. He decided not to sell any riven. And now he ran into this "problem". But he clearly knew about the limit.
So it's not the limits fault, it's OP's fault.

didn't he say he can't sell them to others ? and if you mean he could " melt " them, well still, there is no reason for not allowing him to sell rivens to other people, it's a bug in the code it looks like.

[WhiteMarker]

15 minutes ago, Jeancly said:

didn't he say he can't sell them to others ? and if you mean he could " melt " them, well still, there is no reason for not allowing him to sell rivens to other people, it's a bug in the code it looks like.

He can sell them. He just talked about not being able to buy 5 rivens at a time, if you have 89/90 rivens.
The thing is, he doesn't want to sell them.
Sure it's fine not wanting to do that. But then the OP has to live with the limitation, because it's not the systems fault if he wants to like that.
The OP basically build a wall and ran head first into that wall. And now he is blaming the wall to be there.

[Squeekly]

I'm all in,  I think there should be enough slots for every weapon minus any given that shares multiples,  adding 1 or 2 slots to allow interchangeable as desire.

Edit: given some leeway,  maybe restricted until 9 weapons have released. 

Edited October 2, 2018 by Squeekly

[WhiteMarker]

1 minute ago, Squeekly said:

I'm all in,  I think there should be enough slots for every weapon minus any given that shares multiples,  adding 1 or 2 slots to allow interchangeable as desire. 

In order to do that we would need what? 3-times the amount of slots we have now...
Yeah... sure...

[Squeekly]

17 hours ago, WhiteMarker said:

No, you can't make a second account for storing-purpose, because you can't have your two accounts interact.
That's the reason.

That's exactly what he said and implied.  It was needless to say,  and you said it. 

Maybe you read it wrong? 

[WhiteMarker]

2 minutes ago, Squeekly said:

That's exactly what he said and implied.  It was needless to say,  and you said it. 

Maybe you read it wrong? 

He said, he can't make a storage-account because he can't trade rivens, because of his slot-situation.
He is implying that he could make a storage-account, if he could trade rivens right now.
But that's wrong, he can't make a storage-account because of the rules.
So yes, I had to say, what I said.

[V4lkyra]

6 hours ago, WhiteMarker said:

Sorry to say that, but I don't trust people on the internet.
You may be right, you may be working in SW development. But so is basically everyone on the internet, if you go by what people say.
It's the same with everyone being a better politician than the ones we have right now...

And really, do we really need a reasoning from DE for the limit?
No we don't. It's easy to live with the limit. And we all know about the limit. So everyone running into problems because of the limit, is limiting themself.

You shouldn't take 100% of face-value posts on an internet forum, but...

If everyone 'is basically working in SW development for ~15 years', as you stated, then also the logic that he stated would make sense, as if you worked in SW development for 15 years at minimum, it would be a logical deduction. The logic saying "yeah you're a liar on the internet, everyone says it and thus your opinion on the subject is invalid", doesn't make sense to me at least, because it would depend on what else his opinion contained, other than his basis statement that he has experience with it, which cannot be proven as is right now, yes, but a person citing their experience in a field where this thought is primarily contained, doesn't mark his opinion invalid by default.

As someone who also works with game-oriented server software development (I even meet the requirements sans Canada to become a DE Junior Game Programmer, but I'm not explicitly stating this just so you can believe me, since I don't care either way or not), I can also say that the conjecture 'Riven slots are capped, even with purchasable packs to a certain limit, due to database storage of the Riven mod stats', from my standpoint, is pretty unrealistic to how most systems of this nature work, like as I stated prior, would make more sense if someone actually specialized in this field for a long period and wasn't pulling things out of hot air.

Obviously, there is no way anyone outside of DE's own developers, and others with direct access to the underlying codebase for the game server as a whole, would know 100%, and as such we as players can only offer possible conjecture based off our own personal experience with similar concepts.

That being said, I highly doubt the case currently is due to database storage. In other online PC game server software I have worked with, all objects, regardless of whether they are 'tangible', as say, a Riven Mod, or something that is intangible, such as a theoretical object checking x player for y update reason, is stored in various databases, on server storage drives. Now, the case could be that these databases are not compressed in any way, but for a game the size of Warframe in community and game mechanics, it would be difficult to store all of that data easily without any sort of compression for DE, they would have to have more servers for storage, but again that depends on the amount of objects being stored, data sizing based off framework, etc. For all we know, they only directly store a small amount of objects within databases, but it would make more sense to me, that Mods, at least, are stored within databases as one Mod would represent one database object with keys/values, such as the stats of the mod.

As someone pointed out, Riven Mods are unique as they aren't a mass-obtained mod with static stats, much like, for example, Vitality, which regardless of mod rank, will always have the same underlying stat. But, chances are for Vitality, the way I would at least store that data, would be the mod would exist in a database, BUT the only data that it would need would be the owner, as well as the mod's rank, due to static stats which are rank-dependent, and this only applies to that mod, which is just one of many object types in the game.

Let's take Riven Mods. The stats that would be needing storage, are: The owner of the mod, the riven's name (which seems to be calculated roughly based off it's stats but not 1 concrete possibility), it's roll amounts, the MR requirement, it's mod rank, and each stat the riven has on it, with the percentages of it based on mod rank. One could say the riven's stat percentages could be calculated based off the mod rank, but we can't know for sure either method. So, for each riven, there would be owner ID, string name, integer of roll amounts, MR rank requirement, integer of it's current mod rank, and an array of it's total stats listed, and their percentage. I may be forgetting a feature of it, and DE may be storing other unknown attribute of this mod.

As Rivens are locked behind TWW/MR rank required, not every single registered lo- USER will have one off the bat. But, for every Riven Mod in existence, it will need this storage in the database. As the OP stated, you CAN go past the cap with all riven slots purchased, but you cannot access the sorties any longer, period. If database were an issue, it would make more sense for DE to impose a hard-cap on Rivens that are generated/stored in a player's inventory. But, since all the game mechanics currently do are soft-block you from Sorties until you go under the cap, and in addition to all of my opinions based off my prior statements, I sincerely doubt the real reason the Riven Mod capacity cap exists is due to database storage, but rather DE's self-imposed restrictions to attempt to limit player's total riven control in the economy. My personal thoughts are that Riven Mods shouldn't be capped, like regular mods are, and if a player wants to invest THAT much into Riven Mods, he/she should be able to so. Personally I have like 10 rivens and seldom use all of them at once, let alone maybe 5 of them on weapons, so I really have no personal investment in this topic, but I also just want to put my experience-based logic out there to try and present my side to the whole 'database limit' opinions.

Now if Papa Pablo actually blesses me with a response to my statements, and provides actual real-case synopsis that conflicts with my viewpoints, I will gladly eat my words for our Lord. Steve's reasoning of data usage reasons for the Riven Mod cap make MUCH more sense to me than database storage reasons, since obviously we don't want to take 2 hours just to finish logging in. However network-related reasons, seems like a more streamlined issue to fix, if that were even the case, however may be some underlying system code that would still take a lot of development time into analyzing and addressing properly, but for now I will keep my opinion that there isn't a major technical limitation for Riven Mod's soft-cap game mechanic logic and is simply a choice by DE for other reasons.

[Fishyflakes]

Rivens were a mistake.

[EvilChaosKnight]

19 hours ago, WhiteMarker said:

Storing Warframes is easy. Every Warframe is the same.

Wrong.png

Each warframe has the following:
Level
Main colors x5
Skin selected
Helmet selected
Attachments x5 (or x6 for some)
Attachments colors x5
Syandana x1
Syandana colors x5
Shoulder badges x2
Sigils x2
Sigil properties (positioning, size, alpha and color) x6 x2
Polarities xN (depending on formas and base)
Polarities locations xN (depending on formas and base)
Selected lens
Potato: yes/no
Forma count
Tomato: yes/no
Nameable build slot options x3 out of which every single one has:
    Normal slots x10
    Aura x1
    Tomato slot

So, you are telling me that all of the above takes less space than a single Riven mod?

Edited October 2, 2018 by EvilChaosKnight

[Ecliptix]

I would imagine the reason for the limit is partially to prevent people from having a riven for everything and making them choose and make decisions. From a programming side I doubt it has to do with storage. Storage on rivens does add up but in general would not be a big deal. Likely more to do with data retrieval on login. Would imagine people logging in constantly with the amount of accounts in the game could be taxing, the more rivens etc that have to be loaded each time could be taxing on a free to play game with out a form of steady income such as subscriptions. My guess anyways.

[vvhorus]

40 minutes ago, Lyhtmyst said:

You shouldn't take 100% of face-value posts on an internet forum, but...

If everyone 'is basically working in SW development for ~15 years', as you stated, then also the logic that he stated would make sense, as if you worked in SW development for 15 years at minimum, it would be a logical deduction. The logic saying "yeah you're a liar on the internet, everyone says it and thus your opinion on the subject is invalid", doesn't make sense to me at least, because it would depend on what else his opinion contained, other than his basis statement that he has experience with it, which cannot be proven as is right now, yes, but a person citing their experience in a field where this thought is primarily contained, doesn't mark his opinion invalid by default.

As someone who also works with game-oriented server software development (I even meet the requirements sans Canada to become a DE Junior Game Programmer, but I'm not explicitly stating this just so you can believe me, since I don't care either way or not), I can also say that the conjecture 'Riven slots are capped, even with purchasable packs to a certain limit, due to database storage of the Riven mod stats', from my standpoint, is pretty unrealistic to how most systems of this nature work, like as I stated prior, would make more sense if someone actually specialized in this field for a long period and wasn't pulling things out of hot air.

Obviously, there is no way anyone outside of DE's own developers, and others with direct access to the underlying codebase for the game server as a whole, would know 100%, and as such we as players can only offer possible conjecture based off our own personal experience with similar concepts.

That being said, I highly doubt the case currently is due to database storage. In other online PC game server software I have worked with, all objects, regardless of whether they are 'tangible', as say, a Riven Mod, or something that is intangible, such as a theoretical object checking x player for y update reason, is stored in various databases, on server storage drives. Now, the case could be that these databases are not compressed in any way, but for a game the size of Warframe in community and game mechanics, it would be difficult to store all of that data easily without any sort of compression for DE, they would have to have more servers for storage, but again that depends on the amount of objects being stored, data sizing based off framework, etc. For all we know, they only directly store a small amount of objects within databases, but it would make more sense to me, that Mods, at least, are stored within databases as one Mod would represent one database object with keys/values, such as the stats of the mod.

As someone pointed out, Riven Mods are unique as they aren't a mass-obtained mod with static stats, much like, for example, Vitality, which regardless of mod rank, will always have the same underlying stat. But, chances are for Vitality, the way I would at least store that data, would be the mod would exist in a database, BUT the only data that it would need would be the owner, as well as the mod's rank, due to static stats which are rank-dependent, and this only applies to that mod, which is just one of many object types in the game.

Let's take Riven Mods. The stats that would be needing storage, are: The owner of the mod, the riven's name (which seems to be calculated roughly based off it's stats but not 1 concrete possibility), it's roll amounts, the MR requirement, it's mod rank, and each stat the riven has on it, with the percentages of it based on mod rank. One could say the riven's stat percentages could be calculated based off the mod rank, but we can't know for sure either method. So, for each riven, there would be owner ID, string name, integer of roll amounts, MR rank requirement, integer of it's current mod rank, and an array of it's total stats listed, and their percentage. I may be forgetting a feature of it, and DE may be storing other unknown attribute of this mod.

As Rivens are locked behind TWW/MR rank required, not every single registered lo- USER will have one off the bat. But, for every Riven Mod in existence, it will need this storage in the database. As the OP stated, you CAN go past the cap with all riven slots purchased, but you cannot access the sorties any longer, period. If database were an issue, it would make more sense for DE to impose a hard-cap on Rivens that are generated/stored in a player's inventory. But, since all the game mechanics currently do are soft-block you from Sorties until you go under the cap, and in addition to all of my opinions based off my prior statements, I sincerely doubt the real reason the Riven Mod capacity cap exists is due to database storage, but rather DE's self-imposed restrictions to attempt to limit player's total riven control in the economy. My personal thoughts are that Riven Mods shouldn't be capped, like regular mods are, and if a player wants to invest THAT much into Riven Mods, he/she should be able to so. Personally I have like 10 rivens and seldom use all of them at once, let alone maybe 5 of them on weapons, so I really have no personal investment in this topic, but I also just want to put my experience-based logic out there to try and present my side to the whole 'database limit' opinions.

Now if Papa Pablo actually blesses me with a response to my statements, and provides actual real-case synopsis that conflicts with my viewpoints, I will gladly eat my words for our Lord. Steve's reasoning of data usage reasons for the Riven Mod cap make MUCH more sense to me than database storage reasons, since obviously we don't want to take 2 hours just to finish logging in. However network-related reasons, seems like a more streamlined issue to fix, if that were even the case, however may be some underlying system code that would still take a lot of development time into analyzing and addressing properly, but for now I will keep my opinion that there isn't a major technical limitation for Riven Mod's soft-cap game mechanic logic and is simply a choice by DE for other reasons.

Totally agree with your assessment. As DE needs to constantly acquire new hardware to accommodate new accounts or upgrade old servers, I also don't think storage space is the reason. Makes sense to me what someone above us posted that Steve said: too much data being queried at login which delays the game's load time.

I also think the riven cap should be removed. Don't know if it'll even happen, though, but if it does, I'm all for it...

[O2D3nTe]

It would help everyone if people stopped making up their own reasons as to why things are the way they are.

"Rivens take up too much storage space" show ups every time we talk about riven maximum capacity, and that's completely random. People try to come up with a reason for it, and the whole storage space thing seems plausible to most people so they go with it and preach it as the one and only truth.

The best part is when someone says it's bullS#&$, they're met with "stop pretending you know anything about software development". It's ironic considering the whole "too much space" is a non truth pushed by people who don't understand software dev in the first place.

I'll side with Lyhtmyst here, the "riven taking up too much space" theory is fishy, and if it turned out to be true would mean something went horribly wrong with the way rivens are implemented.

I'll keep my job to myself.

[Jeancly]

2 hours ago, WhiteMarker said:

He can sell them. He just talked about not being able to buy 5 rivens at a time, if you have 89/90 rivens.
The thing is, he doesn't want to sell them.
Sure it's fine not wanting to do that. But then the OP has to live with the limitation, because it's not the systems fault if he wants to like that.
The OP basically build a wall and ran head first into that wall. And now he is blaming the wall to be there.

soo.... he is complaining about the system working as intended and he simply wants more slots? GEEZ could have just sais " I want more slots "

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

20 hours ago, Jukantos said:

TL;DR:

  Reveal hidden contents

I would very much like the ability to purchase more Riven slots with my 8000+ saved up plat. Being effectively permabanned from Riven Trading and Sorties is really demotivating me from doing anything in the game - it's not enjoyable to be locked out of the most challenging and lucrative lategame activities permanently just because you refuse to abide a hard cap inventory system that can clearly be violated AS IS and doesn't need to exists in the way it currently does.

I am a huge fan of collectibles. I am a huge fan of odd weapons in Warframe. Hence it should be no surprise im also a huge fan of just collecting rivens for each and every weapon i have a few formas in and a loadout i enjoy using.

That shouldn't be an issue. I fully admit i'm a long term supporter and a bit of a whale and definitely a MASSIVE trading-junkie. I must've made over 20000 plat via trading at this point.

The only problem is - Rivens are the only thing in all of Warframe to have a hard cap. And it's enforced so rigorously i literally can't even make a second account to store more Rivens on because i'm banned from both Sorties and Trading Rivens alltogether.

I'm currently at 101 Rivens (out of the maximum of 90 purchaseable slots). Having consistently collected every Alert Riven and the 850 day login cache since i hit the hardcap of 90 im now in a range where even a trade of me giving away 5 Rivens is blocked by the game because it would result in me having 96 Rivens (thus staying above the cap).

I simply can not understand why this is such an issue. I'm trying to understand if there's an underlying technical issue with the way Riven information is stored in accounts - afterall we CAN own 100++++ Warframe slots are proven by Tactical Potatos 100 Hydroids.

Can i please get a reason why it's impossible for me to buy 500 or 1000 Riven slots? It's my platinum. I shouldn't have to violate the Terms of Service to own more than 90 Rivens. Why is the only hard capped inventory in your entire game the one for the most flexible most desirable most sought after lategame items? Is this limitation in place out of a technical necessity or simply to stop people from hoarding? I simply do not see why i am being limited in this way when i have over 400€ worth of the premium currency i SHOULD be able to spend on this lying around.

If DE has ever given a reason for this before, can you please provide me with a link? If we could go from 60 to 90, i don't see why we cant go higher. Afterall you can't buy Rivens for plat so the overall number of Riven mods in the game would not increase at all if the hardcap was removed - the only change would be having more Rivens associated with an account.

 

As much as i hate to admit it, being locked out of the Sorties permanently has REALLY pushed me away from Warframe and i've spent my time doing high end activities in other games instead. And yes, i am WAY to stubborn to simply disenchant 11++ Rivens to abide by an inventory maximum rule which COULD be expanded at a later date (as demonstrated when the limit was raised from 60 to 90 to accomodate for Rivens now spanning everything including secondaries and melee weapons)

 

If we can take the Charges off the Archwing Launcher, why can't we also rip the purple maximum number tag off of the riven collections?

Best regards,

a loyal Tenno

I refuse to believe anybody has 90 rivens they actually use. Unless somebody can show me 90 rivens that are actually decent and usage stats from their profile that support the idea they're actually using 90 different weapons.

Also, nice appropriation of the word "banned".

 

[Autongnosis]

@Jukantos I think eventually we'll get more space. In fact if you remember we originally had only 15 slots, then we got the option to buy another 15, then we got to 60 then to 90.

It might take a while but they probably will increase the cap at some point. They already did the same with loadout slots and those used to have the same issues (storage and data pulled on login). 

If anything i feel your pain because i still can't have one loadout for each frame in the game. 

The stupid thing here is that you cannot trade them, that should really be fixed right away. I understand capping, it might make sense, but preventing you from even selling them for plat? That's not nice. 

[Rydian]

18 hours ago, Phillip said:

I've heard it from Steve himself that it's not a storage problem on their end, it's the amount of data that the user has to pull from the servers when logging in, which makes it take longer to login.

Oh that's very interesting to know, thank you!

There's a related problem in another game I play (Mabinogi), where inventory space was traditionally pretty limited... but then after like 6 years or so they started making a lot of space-expanding bags available.  In a sort of short time frame the amount a character could carry on-hand shot up like 20-fold (without anything else changing to accommodate it).  There's definitely a big loading speed difference between my main character and one of my side characters, so I packet logged it one day and yeah, it turned out to be hitches loading and then parsing all the item info.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

Is this a hoarding situation? 

[Jukantos]

Am 1.10.2018 um 22:20 schrieb WhiteMarker:

No, you can't make a second account for storing-purpose, because you can't have your two accounts interact.
That's the reason.

Storing Warframes is easy. Every Warframe is the same.
Each single Riven in the game needs its own "place" in the database, because Rivens are unique. No 2 Rivens are the same.
And DE has to offer enough database storage so every single account in Warframe could get 90 Rivens.
So with each new account-registration DE has to provide 90 additional riven-spots in the database.
The thing is, that it would be horrible, if DE ran out of storage. So they have to have quite the amount of storage up their sleeves, so that they are always prepared for any amount of new accounts that may come.
I hope you understand, why giving additional Riven-slots is so difficult.
Let's say there are 3 million accounts in Warframe. If DE gave us just 1 additional slot, they have to provide storage for 3 million slots. (Not taking into account the new registrations)
Riven-storage is a big problem. And it won't get solved that easily.

See thats where the power of MATH defeats your argument. How much information does a riven realistically require?
 

Spoiler

 

The mastery rank (a smallint, literally doesnt need more than 4 bits), the number of rerolls (lets go with an integer), the mod level (another smallint) and up to 4 values with each value consisting of the attribute it's referencing (again, should be possible with a single byte, so 4 bytes) and finally the actual 4 values, which again can be stored in an integer's worth of data space. (no riven ever goes above 999,9% so you can undo the need for a BigDecimal by simply storing the value multiplied by 10. A number which can store 10000)

All things considered a riven makes up less than a quarter of a kilobyte. Meaning a single megabyte of storage space saves you 4000 rivens. One gigabyte of harddrive space can store more than 4 MILLION rivens. Meaning if you slot a 128 GB hard drive into your server, at the cost of less than 50 bucks, you obtain enough storage space you can store 512 MILLION additonal rivens - Meaning plonk down a Terrabyte hard drive (and server drives can be a lot bigger than that) and you can store hundreds of extra rivens for each and every registered account.

 

Now obviously thats only one side - the other theoretical concerns are database reaction speed and bandwidth.
 

Spoiler

 

Regarding to bandwidth: The easiest solution would be to invest a little additional amount of space per account to create a checksum across all the rivens stored on the account. Then, you save a local copy of the riven list on the client computer, and upon login the client calculates that checksum (to compare it to the store checksum). Obviously unless the account has been accessed from another device, 95%+ of the time this checksum transmission will be fully sufficient to confirm nothing about the rivens in that account has changed and the login can simply continue (so you don't have to bear the bandwidth burden of uploading the full riven list to the player)

Now, for the last part, which is database reaction speed. THEORETICALLY you could argue an uncapped amount of rivens per player increases the size of your database SELECT calculation time, putting additional strain on servers. Easily put, if the database gets bigger -> the server has to go through more stuff and thus takes more effort. The reason this is a false concept is that the AMOUNT of rivens in the game does not change - if you were to use an unindexed database, you wouldnt save any time. Afterall, Rivens cant be bought for platinum. The only way additional Rivens ever get created is via the sorties - i don't know how many people actually get rivens a day but i'd estimate it's a RATHER low amount (lets say <50 MB of riven information per day, going by the math provided up top those are hundreds of thousands of rivens)

 

Now lets calculate the cost of a riven slot.

Spoiler

 

Theoretically, the cost of a single riven space, at no discount, is 20 plat. 75 plat is 5$, making 15 plat 1$ and 20 plat 1,33$. Obviously this calculation is the worst deal possible. So lets go with the best deal instead. 4300 plat, for 50$, using a 75% off token. Meaning you get 21,5 plat per dollar, or ROUGHLY one riven slot for a dollar,

This means that the purchase of 1000 riven slots by the community is enough to buy a decent hard drive for a server. As i have laid out above, that hard drive can store literal millions of rivens. That's one freakin insane investment ratio. And while obviously over time the bandwidth adds extra costs, i'd wager overall, calculated by a year, the costs for those shouldn't significantly multiply the costs. Afterall there's enough infrastructure in place for the rest of the game to run on.

 

In conclusion: Offering riven storage space should make DE a stupid amount of cash from people like me who would very much like to give them more money, not just to support the game, but just simply to collect S#&amp;&#036;.

 

And if i, as a simple semi-competent software engineer can come up with the design for riven storage laid out above, DE's highly qualified team has thought of the same design before, or maybe has an even more efficient one already in place, i can almost guarantee they do. Which means there's no valid technical grounds left to put this hard cap into place i can think off.

[Aleksundar]

Rivens individually take up a TON of server-side data. Think about it, each one is randomized with 5 separate rng-based variables to consider, and 4 of those can be changed as much as the owner wants. Now thats a lot of DATA! 

[Chappie]

2 hours ago, Aleksundar said:

Rivens individually take up a TON of server-side data. Think about it, each one is randomized with 5 separate rng-based variables to consider, and 4 of those can be changed as much as the owner wants. Now thats a lot of DATA! 

Figure 50million players with each player having 100 rivens. Each riven takes ~10kbytes (Assuming they store it in an efficient XML type method) of space to store comes to ~50 terabytes.   But this would be the most stupid way for DE to do this and I doubt they do that.  My guess is the data is stored in a database in binary format with reference points to your account (I do think rivens are their own server/box) thus bringing the total needs to maybe 5 terabytes and this still terrible way (i doubt they would ever pre-allocate upon account generation).  Thus I do not by the "data storage argument".  I do not find it plausible anymore.  

[(PSN)death404]

I hope they do and would gladly throw money at DE for more and I just unlocked sorties. I like to collect and am already having fun with rivens. I can already see they will be a big part of my end game; make good weapons better and bad weapons good enough, then testing them.