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More Grind or Less Grind?


Spartan336
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The amount of grinding in Warframe is “just right” for newer players or players that lack everything.  But it feels abysmal for veterans. Take Revenant for example. The neuroptics being rare isn’t terrible to farm if you’re still leveling you Cetus reputation. It’s the most efficient bounty after all and you’re bound to get it eventually.  But for a player that has everything and never wants to go back to Cetus, it’s suddenly behind an absurd wall. Why it’s rare and not uncommon who knows, but regardless for newer folk it’s not a big deal. 

It feels like that’s how most updates happen though and I’m not sure how I truly feel about it. In the end, the game isn’t hard and having a grind is something to do. Why people spend platinum to get non-prime stuff I’ll never know as that directly lets you finish the game faster. But to each their own. I usually buy rare axi parts because I hate farming relics, others can buy what they want too. 

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19 minutes ago, Spartan336 said:

Warframe is already one of the most grindy games out there

You clearly don't know many games...

19 minutes ago, Spartan336 said:

but do you think it should have more farming? Less farming? Would more or less farming be beneficial to Warframe? 

I think new things to grind for, while making old things less grindy, is beneficial to the game. It gives old players something to do, and new players don't feel so overwhelmed or like the "end" is unreachable.

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Just now, (PS4)iQuedas said:

You clearly don't know many games...

I think new things to grind for, while making old things less grindy, is beneficial to the game. It gives old players something to do, and new players don't feel so overwhelmed or like the "end" is unreachable.

I started a new account recently to see what it was like to start out again and I think the biggest wall to building and upgrading is the credit cost to everything. If credits were more plentiful I think it would be real beneficial.  Why have alerts for 10k credits when each mission could just give 2k more I think. 

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6 minutes ago, (XB1)motionROTATION said:

I started a new account recently to see what it was like to start out again and I think the biggest wall to building and upgrading is the credit cost to everything. If credits were more plentiful I think it would be real beneficial.  Why have alerts for 10k credits when each mission could just give 2k more I think. 

Index... Look at veterans, some litterly have hundreds of millions of credits... And I'm not exaggerating in the slightest

to OP: imo the only grinds I disliked in my time playing this game was the harrow systems from defection missions. So as long as they keep grinds out of horribly game modes it's not that bad

Edited by stormy505
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I’m aware the index exists. On my main I’m in no need of credits. But for a new player credits are scarce, the index requires knowledge of said place and the will to find a party that will probably carry them while they do nothing. I think the index is a terrible addition to the game and doesn’t combat the issue for newer players well. 

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My impression, so far, is that Warframe has a pretty good balance, and for the most part I haven't yet faced a scenario where I could say "that's way too much"[1].

Best I've seen on the games I've played, but I'm not a pro gamer, so my knowledge may be limited.

[1] I think that more/less grinding is basically relative to what is the goal you are pursuing, and the perception of the rewarding experience/items associated with that goal varies from player to player.

 

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It's easier to get the Prime version of most warframes, while their original versions are still locked behind incredible grind walls.  To a veteran it might not seem grindy anymore.  To someone who has barely unlocked any frames, playing modes that are tedious and unpopular looks daunting to say the least.  I've got so many Primes but have very VERY low desire to start grinding parts for frames like Harrow, Khora, or Ivara.  It just looks so mind-numbingly soul crushing.  

I'm MR 22 and don't even have half the frames unlocked.  I went crazy on this games' weapons.  

Edited by AlMcFly
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1 hour ago, Spartan336 said:

more farming? Less farming?

there's more to grind than this though. it's not just the Quantity but the Quality of the Grind that matters. ideally, it should be so enjoyable that you almost forget why you were grinding in the first place because you were enjoying yourself so much, but this is an almost nirvana-like state that is VERY hard to achieve, even for Warframe. when you're doing the same missions with the same loadout on the same tiles over and over it gets boring fast. you gotta have some variety in what you do, personally i do what i can by switching weapons and frames often to keep things different and interesting each time, but the missions and objectives are still the same. for all the shade that we throw at sorties, at least they are a variety of missions, with different missions, modifiers and tiles each time. it wasn't the endgame we were hoping for, but as something to grind, it's actually not that bad IMO.

certain events like plague star on the other hand, or Formorians... those can get tedious pretty quick after a dozen or so runs, if not sooner. even an easy and short grind is not as fun as it could be when there's no variety, and when something is supposed to take a while and/or be genuinely difficult, said variety is appreciated even more. when the grind is boring, we only focus on the rewards even more, and when rewards are dictated by RNG as they are in warframe, it leads to disappointment when we don't get what we want, not just because we missed out, but because it means doing that mission again. the grind is meant to be something to look forward to, not dread because it will be boring and unending.

I'm hoping that DE strikes this balance with Fortuna, by far the largest upcoming grind since we'll likely need Solaris Reputation to do anything, including making kitguns and K-drives, which will likely also require their own resources, even more operator stuff, Moa Companions.. there's gonna be A LOT to do.. but as overwhelming as it might seem, I strongly recommend throwing yourself at it: I was the only one in my clan that immediately started gaining Ostron Rep when Plains of Eidolon launched, and the others now depend on me for fishing because none of them can purchase the baits because they aren't high enough rank. they wish they did what I did, but couldn't bring themsleves to grind bounties. trust me, it pays off in the long run. Fortuna's bounties should hopefully be more varied than the ones on the plains anyway, so for me, the Fortuna Grind should be good.

TLDR: variety in grind makes it a lot less painful, everybody should knuckle down when Fortuna drops because the sooner you start, the sooner you hit max rep and can buy all the things, including the cosmetics for the fashionframe endgame.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Spartan336 said:

Warframe is already one of the most grindy games out there, but do you think it should have more farming? Less farming? Would more or less farming be beneficial to Warframe? 

Sir...may I introduce you to the original Everquest?

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Warframe is only as grindy as the player makes it to be, and I'm not talking about paying for content.

If you're only interested in getting the rewards out of missions, like only playing Defection to get Harrow, then you will get bogged down in grind.

If you're more interested in the gun-play and movement Warframe offers then you're far less likely to feel like the game is a grind.

 

Personally I've played the game actively for a little over five years now and have very rarely felt like the game was a grind but that's because mission rewards are secondary to me.

 

But as far as should the game have more or less "grind" I'd say more. Since everything that isn't awarded via a quest or shop/syndicate is based on drop tables, and I don't see DE changing that, more "grind" is literally just more content.

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I feel that the grinding could do with a bit of refinement in the newer non prime warframe acquisition.  I mean these frames are constantly placed into other missions as a reward that's only accessible through RNG.  There needs to be a progression system that helps the people who are dealt the bad hand of RNG.  I don't care if there are time gates on the progression system as long as they are obtainable within a reasonable time span of I guess 3-7 days.  Most people dislike this idea, but I'm saying it could be beside the normal grind as long as there is a clear goal that isn't just based on RNG. 

 

This comment below is theoretically in support of artificial content.  When the only way to get content is to grind said mode over and over again.  That is not content.  I mean revenant didn't bring new content he literally just reused Gaara's content with a small insignificant plot line.   I'll say it was more than Khora's for sure, but it wasn't really what one would call content. 

 

13 minutes ago, trst said:

But as far as should the game have more or less "grind" I'd say more. Since everything that isn't awarded via a quest or shop/syndicate is based on drop tables, and I don't see DE changing that, more "grind" is literally just more content.

Edited by (PS4)Tenchi145
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2 hours ago, DeathDweller said:

More farming less grinding.

Simple but good point here. I'd add: less nonsense rng (i hate slot machines), more accurate"farming maximization" and variety in doing it.

Clear example of bad grinding: riven rolling system (a huge total crap of a slot machine).

Clear example of nice and various farming methods: kuva.

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Grind is about right.  What warframe does right (shockingly) is the number of grinds.  You can't really grind for one thing without grinding for a bunch of things unless you're actively trying to limit what you farm/grind.  There's focus, there's endo, there's equipment parts and mod drops, syndicate reputation, relics, etc.  And each one has its own milestones you'll hit at various intervals, meaning the rewards just keep flowing in.  This only stops when you make it stop, either because you're just foregoing equipping those things that let you grind focus and rep, or because you've literally farmed and grinded out everything in the game and have nothing left to strive for.  Truly, don't play Warframe too hard: The tippy top is a sad place to be.

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16 minutes ago, (PS4)Tenchi145 said:

I feel that the grinding could do with a bit of refinement in the newer non prime warframe acquisition.  I mean these frames are constantly placed into other missions as a reward that's only accessible through RNG.  There needs to be a progression system that helps the people who are dealt the bad hand of RNG.  I don't care if there are time gates on the progression system as long as they are obtainable within a reasonable time span of I guess 3-7 days.  Most people dislike this idea, but I'm saying it could be beside the normal grind as long as there is a clear goal that isn't just based on RNG. 

 

This comment below is theoretically in support of artificial content.  When the only way to get content is to grind said mode over and over again.  That is not content.  I mean revenant didn't bring new content he literally just reused Gaara's content with a small insignificant plot line.   I'll say it was more than Khora's for sure, but it wasn't really what one would call content. 

 

As I said with the rest of my comment the game is only a grind if you're playing for rewards and not the gameplay.

But Warframe also isn't built for a non rng based reward system. If there wasn't rng to pad out the games length then the people who are only playing for rewards would finish the game incredibly fast. But even worse is that players would then spend more time waiting for items to build than they would playing/grinding the game. The game would need to be rebuilt entirely to allow for this to work and have the padding put back in somehow which would still be a "grind" in some sense.

If you're suggesting having both systems in the game then what I believe you're talking about is a token system. The only times DE has done this was as a means of gaining additional rewards and is how all Syndicates and shops work. But even a token system is a grind if you choose to look at it as such.

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11 minutes ago, trst said:

As I said with the rest of my comment the game is only a grind if you're playing for rewards and not the gameplay.

But Warframe also isn't built for a non rng based reward system. If there wasn't rng to pad out the games length then the people who are only playing for rewards would finish the game incredibly fast. But even worse is that players would then spend more time waiting for items to build than they would playing/grinding the game. The game would need to be rebuilt entirely to allow for this to work and have the padding put back in somehow which would still be a "grind" in some sense.

If you're suggesting having both systems in the game then what I believe you're talking about is a token system. The only times DE has done this was as a means of gaining additional rewards and is how all Syndicates and shops work. But even a token system is a grind if you choose to look at it as such.

Yes the rep system is exactly what I'm talking about.  It is a grind but it is a grind with a foreseeable end and not a "?????" end.  I'd prefer to have an endpoint than something that literally has me grinding just for the sake of grinding.  Having to be solo in the daytime and having my hours cut at night to grind in a group setting sucks because I'm having to stay in one mission just to obtain what I want and its an unknown of when I could get it.  I could possibly grind for an infinite amount of time and never get what I'm looking for because that's RNG.  

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Less grind. He kills interest in the game (at least with me).
I will not make Ballas’s sword now, because the very idea of putting 5-6 forms into it and rank it again and again makes me feel an endless anguish:).
I just finished a similar process with Chroma Prime. I have enough of this process .. for a long time.
Less grind, more adventures, new interesting missions, quests, enemies, pve and pvp modes - that's what I would like to see.

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13 hours ago, (XB1)motionROTATION said:

I started a new account recently to see what it was like to start out again and I think the biggest wall to building and upgrading is the credit cost to everything. If credits were more plentiful I think it would be real beneficial.  Why have alerts for 10k credits when each mission could just give 2k more I think. 

What about platinum for slots? I guess this is not a problem if you buy platinum, but I could see it being a problem for those who don't buy platinum.

I find the grind just right in the game, and farm, for everything except kuva because of hunting those god rolls. It's just too much if you're after them.

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2 hours ago, BoarWarrior said:

What about platinum for slots? I guess this is not a problem if you buy platinum, but I could see it being a problem for those who don't buy platinum.

I find the grind just right in the game, and farm, for everything except kuva because of hunting those god rolls. It's just too much if you're after them.

On my main, I waited for a sale and bought 1000p for $25 give or take. That has lasted me forever and let me buy all the slots I could want. I only started buying non-slots when I began trading.  I don’t think $25 was too much for Warframe. But for someone not buying, I think earning platinum can be pretty easy. Maroo’s sculptures can easily sell for 5p a piece if needed, people always buy relic junk and you might get lucky on Baro weekends, derelict mods etc. how well known those are, idk, but I don’t think it’s terrible either. Not even talking about jackpot rivens if you get one  or 30-50p for unvieled. 

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The grind is nothing close to how it used to be before the change to void relics and the addition of sanctuary onslaught, grinding for prime parts and focus are 10 easier now than back then. I remember when ash prime was released I ran derelict defense at least 150 times to wave 40 or more trying to get his blueprint, and back then the derelict and void keys had a high chance of giving you fusion cores and other junk for the drop instead of prime parts. Also in response to the khora grind, you can’t get an easier grind than running a mode where the whole point is kill mindless mooks as fast as possible for as long as you can with nothing you have to protect and no life support to worry about especially since you can gain decent amounts of focus for your time of course up to the daily cap. I actually feel they made it a little too easy for people to get prime parts and with the change to endless relics now equating to one relic equals one drop (making captures and exterminates faster per drop) not many people have a reason to push their builds and skill to see how long you can last because the rewards are not there to make you want to. Before endless keys gave you multiple rewards for one key and you and your teams ability to survive directly influenced your return on investment, nowadays once enemy levels pass sortie range people start dropping like flies or scramble to extraction.

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