Dev Workshop: Riven Disposition Changes

[ReshyShira]

1 minute ago, Kleboldx1-Prime said:

Never ending gradual riven nerfs. You do realize that a single riven sucks dozens of hours of our life time(some even hundreds), don't you?

I'm not even sure when a riven is considered balanced and worth having a disposition above 2 pips.  Is that only allowed for weapons only one out of ten thousand players actually use or what?  Because I'm getting the feeling that pretty much all of the weapons nerfed so far will keep getting nerfed till they're around .5 disposition strength.  Because there's no transparency as to when a riven is "balanced".

[bibmobello]

2 minutes ago, ReshyShira said:

I'm not even sure when a riven is considered balanced and worth having a disposition above 2 pips.  Is that only allowed for weapons only one out of ten thousand players actually use or what?  Because I'm getting the feeling that pretty much all of the weapons nerfed so far will keep getting nerfed till they're around .5 disposition strength.  Because there's no transparency as to when a riven is "balanced".

The problem is when you see someone using a weapon and he makes alone 90% of damage you will start thinking: Hey that's a great weapon! i will try it! then you spend hours to put formas on it and at the end you realize that without a (god)riven, it's pure crap!

[(XBOX)WryWoodenman]

So i havnt been playing warframe very long, but i have invested a lot of time and money to support this game and DE. I found it completely unfair to nerf existing riven mods that people have spent their hard earn time to roll or plat to acquire. This has made me not want to play since.... I could understand trying to find balance in game. But i find it so wrong for DE to take something that i took a lot of time achieving and making it usless practically. In the past changes to warframe they had not done this to things ppl had already acquired, instead just made them unable to aquire in future game play for the ppl that didnt have them. Examples being certain kubrow prints, Prime chamber, prime excal, and the list goes on. I feel robbed...and im definitely disappointed in this decision to take away the stats of something i had already acquire through lots of game play and the spending of plat. I've lost a lot of respect for DE for this. They shouldn't have messed with existing mods that people already had. Just changed the ones made or rolled in after the update to find there balance they were seeking by this. And taking the sentinal mods out of rotation did nothing but make their price sky rocket on the market, the exact opposite of any balancing affect they were trying to achive there as well. The fact is this update was poorly thought out in my opinion, you shouldn't take from somone that they have acquired already, just have changed the new things coming out like they did in the past updates.... Once again, I feel robbed of a lot of time and effort and lost a desire to the only game i played for the past year. Very disappointed in this decision DE.

 

[bibmobello]

That's not the problem, it's not DE selling the rivens and you knew there was a riven disposition. The real problem is that a riven doesn't balance the game, it's the opposite, some weapons take too much power with a riven because the system itself it's broken. Crits, slash and toxin make more damage than anything else.

Anyway i hope the idea of riven wasn't' to please the owners but to balance the game...

[ReshyShira]

19 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

That's not the problem, it's not DE selling the rivens and you knew there was a riven disposition. The real problem is that a riven doesn't balance the game, it's the opposite, some weapons take too much power with a riven because the system itself it's broken. Crits, slash and toxin make more damage than anything else.

Anyway i hope the idea of riven wasn't' to please the owners but to balance the game...

If they didn't want Rivens to become a mass market hit, they owuldn't restrict their slot capacity, require heavy investment to roll their stats, or let them be tradable to other players... But they do.

[SunsetChaos]

Quote

Miter: 1.6->1.55

TFW you know you're one of the few that actually uses this weapon due to having a riven and that your heavy usage helped in bringing it down...

Quote

Lato: 1.51->1.4

Ok I blame this one on the re-release of Lato Vandal resulting in many people using one. It would've stayed up there otherwise.

[ReshyShira]

1 minute ago, SunsetChaos said:

TFW you know you're one of the few that actually uses this weapon due to having a riven and that your heavy usage helped in bringing it down...

Ok I blame this one on the re-release of Lato Vandal resulting in many people using one. It would've stayed up there otherwise.

Thing is... the Lato's still really only usable with a riven, and yet it's usability with a riven is what's causing the riven to get nerfed.  What's the deal?  Isn't that what rivens are supposed to do?

[K-Sha]

1 hour ago, ValloVN said:

Hmm no, rivens disposition didn't change from 5->1  u are only running ferrari on normal fuel instead of performance fuel that's all, slight horsepower reduce. Your comparison is way off. 

All the riven prices are just pure greedy made up prices. Who did say that this or that riven is worth that much or effort u put into it. And why should riven with same stats that has 0-5 rolls be same price as riven that has 50+ rolls where person really has put effort in. It would have been probably best if they weren't tradeable in first place and higher chance to get riven on sortie. And i have seen people get banned for selling stuff with high price and that other person who bought get banned for getting plat illegal ways or something which will be removed from that person account who sold item. So if he has negative plat amount he would have to pay real money and add plat to unlock his account. So imagine having to pay 400 euro example if it was 10k plat trade. Another person stops playing warframe. Prices of for items over 1000p is not normal, hope u understand it. DE own deluxe skins and bundles cost less than that. I have almost 2800 hours played in warframe so i am aware of what is progress and effort and what is not. Most are just trying to play god with their "Godly" rivens. There is no effort in buying a riven for 200p and selling for 5000 with 5 rolls. But i guess opinions varie  😄 

This, the riven market honestly needs to be regulated because we're getting to rivens that are hundreds and thousands of dollars or in general just obscene amounts of irl money.

[SunsetChaos]

1 minute ago, ReshyShira said:

Thing is... the Lato's still really only usable with a riven, and yet it's usability with a riven is what's causing the riven to get nerfed.  What's the deal?  Isn't that what rivens are supposed to do?

Lato Vandal man. Before that there was only really Lato excluding the prime. Meaning barely anyone would've used any Lato at all. Releasing Lato Vandal back into the game resulted in a large amount of users even if for a time.

[ReshyShira]

3 minutes ago, K-Sha said:

This, the riven market honestly needs to be regulated because we're getting to rivens that are hundreds and thousands of dollars or in general just obscene amounts of irl money.

This isn't regulation, this is just devaluing existing rivens without really addressing the problem that makes them so expensive.

 

Just now, SunsetChaos said:

Lato Vandal man. Before that there was only really Lato excluding the prime. Meaning barely anyone would've used any Lato at all. Releasing Lato Vandal back into the game resulted in a large amount of users even if for a time.

Oh I know, but even with the Lato Vandal it's still pretty eh.

[HachetDuck]

On 2018-11-08 at 9:39 PM, TheBronx said:

I bought a Tiberon riven a few days ago:
255.3% damage
141.4% multishot

Now it says:
221.3% damage
122.5%% multishot

I am not very happy with this... Wasted a decent amount of plat.

mine went from 119% multishot to 103% costing me a bullet breakpoint. (split chamber + old riven = 200%) Now i have to drop another important mod to trying keep the breakpoint or enjoy having to waste more ammo because its shooting random amounts of bullets (when it was 200% (so 3 rounds per bullet fired) you could work out exactly how many trigger pulls to kill a target, now its just random and not very effective)

 

Honestly im pretty ****ed off with DE and this BS atm, as a new player i think its pretty ****.

[SunsetChaos]

2 minutes ago, ReshyShira said:

Oh I know, but even with the Lato Vandal it's still pretty eh.

well now it'll be bit more eh.

[bibmobello]

43 minutes ago, (XB1)WryWoodenman said:

So i havnt been playing warframe very long, but i have invested a lot of time and money to support this game and DE. I found it completely unfair to nerf existing riven mods that people have spent their hard earn time to roll or plat to acquire. This has made me not want to play since.... I could understand trying to find balance in game. But i find it so wrong for DE to take something that i took a lot of time achieving and making it usless practically. In the past changes to warframe they had not done this to things ppl had already acquired, instead just made them unable to aquire in future game play for the ppl that didnt have them. Examples being certain kubrow prints, Prime chamber, prime excal, and the list goes on. I feel robbed...and im definitely disappointed in this decision to take away the stats of something i had already acquire through lots of game play and the spending of plat. I've lost a lot of respect for DE for this. They shouldn't have messed with existing mods that people already had. Just changed the ones made or rolled in after the update to find there balance they were seeking by this. And taking the sentinal mods out of rotation did nothing but make their price sky rocket on the market, the exact opposite of any balancing affect they were trying to achive there as well. The fact is this update was poorly thought out in my opinion, you should take from somone that they have acquired already, just have changed the new things coming out like they did in the past updates.... Once again, I feel robbed of a lot of time and effort and lost a desire to the only game i played for the past year. Very disappointed in this decision DE.

 

The solution is simply: don't buy rivens! You can exchange it but in this game people is obsessed with platinum. It's not a drama if you deals less damage, i remember a time when you needed skills to beat a game...

[K-Sha]

20 minutes ago, ReshyShira said:

This isn't regulation, this is just devaluing existing rivens without really addressing the problem that makes them so expensive.

 

Oh I know, but even with the Lato Vandal it's still pretty eh.

I didn't say it was, and you're right, it isn't. We need hard limits on riven prices ideally.

[Tiltskillet]

The system itself seems in need of an extensive overhaul, but I'm fine with the Riven changes by and large.  Partly because I expected them to happen, which apparently a lot of people didn't.  Also I'm ok with nerfs--which apparently a lot of people have never experienced before now.  I never would have guessed that this was the first online game of so many players!

But DE, if you're listening, even all the way back here on page 36--I think it would be good business sense to make a gesture of compensation in this case.  Because it's been so long without a dispo review...because the riven market got out of control...because the riven cycling system is a grim slot machine of kuva devouring...because there are certainly some people who had no idea this was coming.  Ignorance is not a great excuse for us, but neither is "Look in the Wiki", "Read that one Twitter comment", or "Build a time machine and start playing back when we first introduced rivens" for you.

Because...a lot of people have invested heavily in this system--not only plat, but also resources and time.  And love.  Ok, not so much love.  But all that other stuff!

Just a gesture.  I don't know what exactly, but something like "x" kuva for every riven a player owns that had its disposition lowered.  Something.  Not because it will be fair to everybody or actually compensate anybody for anything.  But to show that you care about the situation, and that you acknowledge some responsibility for creating it.  Caveat emptor, of course, but caveat uh...developor too.

It might make the difference between losing and keeping some of your customers.  It will definitely make some difference keeping  your fans.

Hugs and kisses,

 - Tiltskillet

[Anbu9000]

3 minutes ago, K-Sha said:

I didn't say it was, and you're right, it isn't. We need hard limits on riven prices ideally.

This game has a free market economy. What you said makes no sense because by the same standard every item ever sold in the trading channel would then need a hard limit. So by what you said you really support a trade cap of Plat for every item ?

[K-Sha]

1 minute ago, Anbu9000 said:

This game has a free market economy. What you said makes no sense because by the same standard every item ever sold in the trading channel would then need a hard limit. So by what you said you really support a trade cap of Plat for every item ?

Yes because I know these are player determined prices but we still generally operate on a content to value scale when thinking of prices for content in games. Rivens are a tiny tiny amount of content and RNG bandaids that make bad weapons good and good weapons broken. They are not worth any more than say, 400 platinum at best. The riven prices we're seeing are upwards of, in USD, hundreds and thousands of dollars if you do conversions and of course anywhere else simply obscene amounts of money. That is FAR from okay. The prices have been inflating ever since rivens were first added and it just goes up and up and up.

Greedy ass Riven traders wouldn't be willing to lower prices either so a hard limit is easily the best option, but by now it's evident DE wants to make money off of rivens more than anything.

[bibmobello]

2 minutes ago, K-Sha said:

Yes because I know these are player determined prices but we still generally operate on a content to value scale when thinking of prices for content in games. Rivens are a tiny tiny amount of content and RNG bandaids that make bad weapons good and good weapons broken. They are not worth any more than say, 400 platinum at best. The riven prices we're seeing are upwards of, in USD, hundreds and thousands of dollars if you do conversions and of course anywhere else simply obscene amounts of money. That is FAR from okay. The prices have been inflating ever since rivens were first added and it just goes up and up and up.

 Greedy ass Riven traders wouldn't be willing to lower prices either so a hard limit is easily the best option, but by now it's evident DE wants to make money off of rivens more than anything.

There is no market riven at all because there are only few weapons with that absurd prices and they are all sniper rifles and few other weapons. The rest of rivens value 0-30 max plat!

[Anbu9000]

I can understand a plat cap per trade. Its actually good to stop accounts from getting thousands of bad plat. However nerfing other peoples items just because someone else doesnt have them. Even tho they have the same capability to get them in the future is sad. Either make the rivens easier to get or cycle and boost the other rivens. DE did the players who put time energy plat and real money into this game dirty.  

[K-Sha]

32 minutes ago, Anbu9000 said:

I can understand a plat cap per trade. Its actually good to stop accounts from getting thousands of bad plat. However nerfing other peoples items just because someone else doesnt have them. Even tho they have the same capability to get them in the future is sad. Either make the rivens easier to get or cycle and boost the other rivens. DE did the players who put time energy plat and real money into this game dirty.  

Huh, that wasn't what I was thinking but that's cause I wasn't thinking more about it, that's really good actually. 

DE didn't do anyone dirty though, it was said from the start that riven disposition will change and you didn't lose anything from disposition changes, all of the good weapons are still good just less broken. It's nothing to fuss over.

[iChem]

Why not just make a 4th riven class for sentinel weapons and have it as a simaris standing reward for 50k points?

[FrostDragoon]

9 minutes ago, iChem said:

Why not just make a 4th riven class for sentinel weapons and have it as a simaris standing reward for 50k points?

Even at 100k it'd be fine. It's a luxury item to begin with.

[Anbu9000]

17 minutes ago, K-Sha said:

Huh, that wasn't what I was thinking but that's cause I wasn't thinking more about it, that's really good actually. 

DE didn't do anyone dirty though, it was said from the start that riven disposition will change and you didn't lose anything from disposition changes, all of the good weapons are still good just less broken. It's nothing to fuss over.

They did hundreds of players dirty your just ignorant to the fact. Go spend a couple hundred hours in kuva missions to get kuva to cycle and cycle weapons or use your real world cash to buy plat. Buy boosters and trade with other players then see your weapon dropped because someone thinks its broken. Then when that weapon is dropped for a rework to make other weapons more balance. Go look at the other rivens in your inventory still not worth anything to use because the damage they put out is still weak. If was nothing to fuss over  should of never dropped dispositions and just raised all the other weapons stats or did away with disposition period and just add base stats to a percentage. The reason this ticks me off isnt so much the drop in disposition its the principal. if you have a game where you invest time energy and money to get things then they drop them in power after that grind. That makes the grind pointless and the playing futile. The understanding of that is what separates casuals who dont invest in a game from daily players who do. I actually love this game and id hate to see it fall into that category. I actually believe DE will read all these posts and listen. Why i play this game and  support it.

[K-Sha]

22 minutes ago, Anbu9000 said:

They did hundreds of players dirty your just ignorant to the fact. Go spend a couple hundred hours in kuva missions to get kuva to cycle and cycle weapons or use your real world cash to buy plat. Buy boosters and trade with other players then see your weapon dropped because someone thinks its broken. Then when that weapon is dropped for a rework to make other weapons more balance. Go look at the other rivens in your inventory still not worth anything to use because the damage they put out is still weak. If was nothing to fuss over  should of never dropped dispositions and just raised all the other weapons stats or did away with disposition period and just add base stats to a percentage. The reason this ticks me off isnt so much the drop in disposition its the principal. if you have a game where you invest time energy and money to get things then they drop them in power after that grind. That makes the grind pointless and the playing futile. The understanding of that is what separates casuals who dont invest in a game from daily players who do. I actually love this game and id hate to see it fall into that category. I actually believe DE will read all these posts and listen. Why i play this game and  support it.

You're completely ignoring what the changes are, you're just angry that they were changed at all. The changes are all pretty minimal. I invest in this game plenty including into rivens and nobody lost their investments they still have rivens, the rivens are still good. You should pay attention to how much the stats are dropped, because it's not much (and imo that's what's wrong because they aren't balancing their own system the way they said they would. I did do kuva grinding and all that nonsense and after some time doing it and rerolling rivens I decided it isn't worth the hassle, because I like variety and I'm not gonna invest hours into making one weapon godlike broken just so I can barely use it. If you don't like the principal of items losing value over time then I'm sorry to say, that's how any market works. Every normal item in a market has its value deteriorate eventually, this is one of the ways it happens for rivens.

 

EDIT:Think about it this way, when you're grinding kuva and rerolling, rerolling, rerolling those rivens, you are getting different effects on that riven. Your riven is still there, the weapon is still there, and the roll on the riven is still there. You didn't lose anything that you worked for, you don't work for your crit damage roll specifically being +150%, you worked for the roll itself.

[Vali]

IMO, add Sentinel Weapon Rivens to Simaris' tributes, it would only be logical to be there with all the augments!