Dev Workshop: Riven Disposition Changes

[kellerak]

il y a 44 minutes, Artek94 a dit :

I never said they are to balance something. There is a clear power progression of weapons through the game. A weapon that MR1 uses is not a weapon a MR25 would use.
But what if MR25 actually liked that weapon in the past? Maybe it looks badass, maybe it feels good, maybe it has a special nostalgia value to it...

ok actually brainless... well just play this weapon yourself then? how is my rubico lanka tiberon etc affecting your gameplay. do my top tier weapons annoy you?

how does it justify nerfing other people's gear, just up the bad ones disposition? or normalize them all and never touch it again

communism much 🤮

[Artekkor]

2 минуты назад, (PS4)nekokujo сказал:

Disregarding Fortuna, what new things to do in the game do you have now compared to pre-riven nerf? I think we all can agree that a well modded ‘meta’ weapon will steamroll 99% of the content in this game with or without a riven. That one guy will now have to maybe two-shot the eidolon instead of one-shotting it. You still don’t get the challenge you want and the lanka guy doesn’t get the pleasure of one-shotting with his favorite gun.

Fair point... So why the outrage then, if there's not much difference?

Well... I know why. Because this was but a step. If DE are ready to take these steps - in the exact same direction - it means that sooner or later the lanka guy will feel it for sure.

However a big question here is what logic - exactly - DE apply to the statistics involving guns and rivens.
In other words: if a weapon is underused and then rivens buff the popularity of it - do DE start balancing disposition based on that? Or do they ignore it because that was directly the intended result of the riven system?

As far as lanka goes - we all know why it gained in popularity - because it allows for radiation-only sniper build, which is perfect against eidolons. Rivens are just a cherry on top.
I would imagine its very hard to separate popularity gained because the weapon found its' niche and because rivens make it godly and adjust disposition accordingly.
Lets be honest here: even without rivens Lanka would still probably be the go-to weapon against eidolons just because its Lanka.

That is, until DE will introduce a better electricity / radiation focused crit sniper (it'll be worthless if it'll be status focused).

[MonkeyDJacob]

Hek 0.55 to 0.7 this has not been implemented yet it seems hopefully fixed soon 🙂

[Artekkor]

7 минут назад, Knight_Prospekt сказал:

 

Good grief, you're the kind of community member that dials the toxicity up to 11 huh? Maybe you should've been running your hunts with a group of lackeys that would conform to the unrealistic expectations you want to impose on strangers. Strangers that have evidently wronged you by bringing an efficient weapon for the content at hand

I'm not trying to be toxic, im just trying to be honest.
I simply said - yeah, i dislike players who manage to push the limits of game's balance and create something so powerful - DE probably never intented for it to be the case. That's all i tried to say. And i'm fairly happy when i see DE put a foot on it.

When i mentioned a theoretic "100% efficiency maniac" i didn't say that i was abandon effieicnecy completely. Just some of it... Like im 85% efficient, while he's 100%. Yet that small difference is absolutely gigantic. And not just because im not being super efficient - its simply the fact that not a single weapon in my arsenal can reach same levels of power. And i have a huge arsenal.

Also if you think i'm 11/10 toxic... I'm scared to imagine what rating you would give some people i've met in the past. 20/10 probably.

[SweetScreams]

11 hours ago, ModernGreg said:

Players made the rivens worth real world money, not DE. Technically you can trade a godly riven for an ammo drum. But players have decided its worth in plat. Be careful who you blame here. 

Might want to rethink that. DE made the only in game currency "plat" which is used to buy anything worth having in the game from warframes, skins, cosmetics, boosters, colors, etc etc. They sell this currency for real world money, making it worth actual money. ANYTHING not traded for another item in game is traded for plat, this is not a player made creation. Deliberate design by the Devs, really can't debate that.

[Artekkor]

24 минуты назад, kellerak сказал:

ok actually brainless... well just play this weapon yourself then? how is my rubico lanka tiberon etc affecting your gameplay. do my top tier weapons annoy you?

how does it justify nerfing other people's gear, just up the bad ones disposition? or normalize them all and never touch it again

communism much 🤮

Because i believe in the concept of a balanced game where actual raid bosses cant (and shouldnt) be literally oneshoted by unintentionally overpowered game mechanics. that's all there is to it. And unfortunately rivens have the potential to do just that. We have enough power creep already within the guns themselves, there's absolutely no justification for rivens to get involed into it too, because that's when things get pushed over the line.

[Knight_Prospekt]

3 minutes ago, Artek94 said:

I'm not trying to be toxic, im just trying to be honest.
I simply said - yeah, i dislike players who manage to push the limits of game's balance and create something so powerful - DE probably never intented for it to be the case. That's all i tried to say. And i'm fairly happy when i see DE put a foot on it.

When i mentioned a theoretic "100% efficiency maniac" i didn't say that i was abandon effieicnecy completely. Just some of it... Like im 85% efficient, while he's 100%. Yet that small difference is absolutely gigantic. And not just because im not being super efficient - its simply the fact that not a single weapon in my arsenal can reach same levels of power. And i have a huge arsenal.

Also if you think i'm 11/10 toxic... I'm scared to imagine what rating you would give some people i've met in the past. 20/10 probably.

Yeah you're being honest alright.

You dislike people who put in their time or resources to be better.

Rivens are intended to be novel mods capable of combining the effects and strengths of many individual mods and pushing the limits of what a weapon can do. They were designed with inherent power in mind.

Sorry you're not the best in a massive multiplayer PvE game. Neither am I. But you're the one wanting to bring those pushing the envelope down.

[Miezx]

looks to me to a generic nerf to all popular rivens. to veterans who spent months on kuva/plat-farming thats just another big slap in the face. why not adjust the weaker weapons and keep everything as it is - don't fix something that's not broken in the first place!

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

On 2018-11-08 at 1:58 PM, Peter said:

Where is the kohm nerf? it was much more used than the Astilla!!

If  I could physically shove my head through my phone I would. They dont want to risk messing with 100%status builds, but to hek with the other rivens?

If they're going to do this "periodically in line with aforementioned rules" i would take that to mean, tiberon wont fo from a 5 to a 1... right away.

This is especially hilarious considering a 100%status kohm is arguably the most powerful gun in the game.

[FrostDragoon]

1 minute ago, Miezx said:

looks to me to a generic nerf to all popular rivens. to veterans who spent months on kuva/plat-farming thats just another big slap in the face. why not adjust the weaker weapons and keep everything as it is - don't fix something that's not broken in the first place!

This must be copy/paste of this response (or some variant of it) number 3,249,802 in this thread. The answer to the question has been provided several times, but it's not even so complex that you should need someone else to answer it for you.

Essentially, it's just a form of entitlement that stems from ignoring the disclaimer that everyone already knew, but pretended they didn't. It's like when you click "I agree" to a TOS without reading it and then acting surprised when that company enforces it.

🙄

[Sharkgoblin]

8 hours ago, Robolaser said:

That's around 90k dps with a crit build,a punchtrough mod and no riven 😮

i actually bought the thing i built it this way

it takes almost an entire magazine to kill a lvl 155 napalm, roughly 5~6 seconds to bring the fatso down. also it deals some splash damage and i think it has innate punch through in the same fashion of plasmor

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

5 minutes ago, Knight_Prospekt said:

Yeah you're being honest alright.

You dislike people who put in their time or resources to be better.

Rivens are intended to be novel mods capable of combining the effects and strengths of many individual mods and pushing the limits of what a weapon can do. They were designed with inherent power in mind.

Sorry you're not the best in a massive multiplayer PvE game. Neither am I. But you're the one wanting to bring those pushing the envelope down.

That kind of sentiment reeks of jealousy and nothing else. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees it for what it is.

 

[kellerak]

il y a 1 minute, Artek94 a dit :

Because i believe in the concept of a balanced game where actual raid bosses cant (and shouldnt) be literally oneshoted by unintentionally overpowered game mechanics. that's all there is to it. And unfortunately rivens have the potential to do just that.

1)show me a video of someone one shotting hydraulyst limbs without using glitches

2) even if it was possible it would be like 0.1% of people capable of doing that

il y a 11 minutes, Artek94 a dit :

I simply said - yeah, i dislike players who manage to push the limits of game's balance and create something so powerful - DE probably never intented for it to be the case. That's all i tried to say. And i'm fairly happy when i see DE put a foot on it.

 Like im 85% efficient, while he's 100%

3) *with only 85% of my full power* disgusting.putting it simply you just suck at the game and you are happy when players with better gear are frustrated. why do you give your opinion on a riven board if you don't use them and can't be arsed to maximise the potential of your gear? it's astounding to me

4) "We have enough power creep already within the guns themselves " so why do you want rivens for your low tier weapons you love so much?

[-Kittens-]

56 minutes ago, Knight_Prospekt said:

 

Good grief, you're the kind of community member that dials the toxicity up to 11 huh? Maybe you should've been running your hunts with a group of lackeys that would conform to the unrealistic expectations you want to impose on strangers. Strangers that have evidently wronged you by bringing an efficient weapon for the content at hand

Except the opposite corollary also applies.

See, I installed warframe all those years ago when the exactly one tileset was corpus box fort and the enemy was grineer 1 and grineer 2 and grineer 1 talked about grineer 2's (who was also his mom) mom to play it.

 

If I wanted to watch warframe I would go on twitch.

[MasterChefBrownie]

1 hour ago, Atomic said:

I spent 5000 pl to buy a nice riven for the tiberon. I will never waste money on this game again.

Regardless of whether or not you accumulated that plat by trade chat and spent 0$, lets do a currency conversion.

Situation 1: You spent 0$ and X amount of time (probably a lot) to accumulate 5000 plat to buy 1 riven. 
Situation 2: You obtained a 75% off discount on plat and bought the 4300plat bundle. You accumulated the remaining 700 via grind=time. Convert and you spent roughly 58$ and time to buy 1 riven.

This is my opinion take it however you will, but when it comes to free to play games I will only buy premium "content" when my ratio of Hours played to money spent is justified, for me that is equivalent to a AAA 60$ game where I expect to gain 80hrs of gameplay. Having over 500hrs in this game split between PS4 and Console, I do not see a justification for paying 5000plat in any case for 1 riven. 1 riven can only give you so much content. This one riven also doesn't limit you from doing hunts. There are plenty of videos/builds out there where people doing Tridolons runs rivenless. You wasted money the second you bought that god-teir Tiberon riven.

[Artekkor]

6 минут назад, Knight_Prospekt сказал:

Yeah you're being honest alright.

You dislike people who put in their time or resources to be better.

Rivens are intended to be novel mods capable of combining the effects and strengths of many individual mods and pushing the limits of what a weapon can do. They were designed with inherent power in mind.

Sorry you're not the best in a massive multiplayer PvE game. Neither am I. But you're the one wanting to bring those pushing the envelope down.

Well, i did put time and resources too (only no platinum). I have like 25 rivens that i honestly like, out of them like 5 were nerfed (and it was justified from my point of view) and about 10 were buffed (also justified).

Your definition of rivens is right. Only its only half of definition. Yes, rivens were meant to be overpowered hybrids... But only for underpowered unpopular weapons. Not for weapons that are already top-notch.

I have a riven for tonkor, for example. I got it AFTER tonkor received self damage treatment (so, after it stoped being popular and only a few people still use it - if any). Yet riven was absolutely worthless because it was balanced from the times when tonkor was god. But with this change it was buffed grealy, which is something im quiet happy about. That reminds me that i still havent used it on the battlefield, so that's someting on my to-do list...

Now if only i could get a riven for kraken... I miss that gun.

[SpentCasings]

26 minutes ago, Artek94 said:

I'm not trying to be toxic, im just trying to be honest.
I simply said - yeah, i dislike players who manage to push the limits of game's balance and create something so powerful - DE probably never intented for it to be the case. That's all i tried to say. And i'm fairly happy when i see DE put a foot on it.

When i mentioned a theoretic "100% efficiency maniac" i didn't say that i was abandon effieicnecy completely. Just some of it... Like im 85% efficient, while he's 100%. Yet that small difference is absolutely gigantic. And not just because im not being super efficient - its simply the fact that not a single weapon in my arsenal can reach same levels of power. And i have a huge arsenal.

Also if you think i'm 11/10 toxic... I'm scared to imagine what rating you would give some people i've met in the past. 20/10 probably.

Some people LIKE doing that. I eventually wanted 1 well statted riven for every gun/melle I owned in the game. That was my end game goals, with everything forma'd and decked out. 

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

2 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

This must be copy/paste of this response (or some variant of it) number 3,249,802 in this thread. The answer to the question has been provided several times, but it's not even so complex that you should need someone else to answer it for you.

Essentially, it's just a form of entitlement that stems from ignoring the disclaimer that everyone already knew, but pretended they didn't. It's like when you click "I agree" to a TOS without reading it and then acting surprised when that company enforces it.

🙄

Except, it's been over 600 days since the last time dispo was updated, (before this) and if you haven't been playing that long you would have NEVER seen anything explaining dispo in game and lets not be intellectually dishonest and act like everybody who has bought a riven in the last (almost) 2 years should be expected to dig through wiki articles, the forums, and (very) old dev streams just for fun.

DE created this problem through inaction and poor communication but that didnt stop them from taking money from this the whole time.

 

As for "muh entitlement" would you be saying the same thing if they rerolled the appearance of every kavat and kubrow in the game just because? After all. Muh terms of use.

[ChameleonDude]

Mostly really nice changes. As the owner of several powerful rivens for powerful weapons, I feel that the stat reductions I've seen are pretty fair.

However, since Kohm and Detron have been exempt due to 100% status chance, I'd like to put forward the case for the Vectis to be returned to its previous disposition. Before the update, a negative magazine size reduced the Vectis Prime from a magazine of 2 to 1 - ideal for /Charged/Primed Chamber builds. While this roll is still powerful, as it now has no effect on the weapon, it completely changes the feel of the Vectis Prime for those few of us who used such rivens. The ideal fix would be to sort out the mess that is Primed Chamber and give the Vectis Prime a base magazine size of one (seeing as the only reason it was given an increased magazine was because of Primed Chamber's scarcity, and the Depleted Reload mod was made as a bandaid fix to the problem, but taking up a valuable mod slot).

I don't expect any changes to be made, seeing as the Vectis is apparently a popular weapon (possibly because of Twitch drops and the game being flooded with them), but I thought it was worth mentioning seeing as Kohm and Detron have been given special consideration due to people using rivens to reach some ideal stat. Hopefully I won't have to shelve my favourite sniper rifle along with my Ember.

[Artekkor]

5 минут назад, kellerak сказал:

1)show me a video of someone one shotting hydraulyst limbs without using glitches

2) even if it was possible it would be like 0.1% of people capable of doing that

3) *with only 85% of my full power* disgusting.putting it simply you just suck at the game and you are happy when players with better gear are frustrated. why do you give your opinion on a riven board if you don't use them and can't be arsed to maximise the potential of your gear? it's astounding to me

4) "We have enough power creep already within the guns themselves " so why do you want rivens for your low tier weapons you love so much?

1) Cant be bothered, but im sure there are some. And half of them are probably super-rivens.

2) True. And that 0,1% of people is the ones i have issue with.

3) Instead of bringing lanka to eidolon hunt i brought my own personal favorite - Vulkar Wraith. Or on some days - my Prisma Gorgon with +CritChance +Electricity riven. They work fine, just do not oneshot the damn thing. Because i just like those guns better...
I give my opinion on riven thread because i have 29 rivens right now, out of them i dont care for 2-3, others i actually like and intend on using. I invested quiet a lot of time on them too, with at least one riven being in 60 rolls by now (Quartakk one i believe?).
I simply used rivens for their intended purpose - making bad guns better, not making good guns godly. I had couple of rivens that did that and frankly im okay with them being nerfed because it was justified (a rubico riven and a sicarus one. Also ignis).

4) Because i dont necesserily like new guns? Power isnt my #1 requirement. Well, it is, but there's a whole bunch of things that come as #2 and in numbers overweight the #1. I'm also interested in fashion, in how it feels to use the gun. Opticor is quiet powerful (even without the riven, which i dont have), yet i stoped using it because it just doesnt feel right. There's barely any recoil, the shooting sound is meh... YOu know... The trivial details. Yet the ones i care about as much as i do about power.

I like Kraken. I like Vulkar. I like Karak Wraith. They feel good. Yet they perform very badly. They are EXACTLY the guns that riven system was MADE FOR. And that's exactly how i look at rivens.
If people saw the riven system as a way to push the limits of their power - then they can blame only themselves because they misunderstood the point of rivens from the start.

[(PSN)nekokujo]

4 minutes ago, MasterChefBrownie said:

This is my opinion take it however you will, but when it comes to free to play games I will only buy premium "content" when my ratio of Hours played to money spent is justified, for me that is equivalent to a AAA 60$ game where I expect to gain 80hrs of gameplay. Having over 500hrs in this game split between PS4 and Console, I do not see a justification for paying 5000plat in any case for 1 riven. 1 riven can only give you so much content. This one riven also doesn't limit you from doing hunts. There are plenty of videos/builds out there where people doing Tridolons runs rivenless. You wasted money the second you bought that god-teir Tiberon riven.

I’m sure there are plenty of people who don’t like video games who think that any money spent on them is a waste. If everyone followed the same rules as you do regarding free-to-play games, then Warframe wouldn’t be nearly as polished as it is in 2018.

in any event, the thing I’m actually the most upset about is the sudden removal of the sentinel rivens. I love underused and niche weapons just as much as the big meta blasters, and sentinel weapon rivens are about as niche as it gets. Lots of good suggestions in this thread on how to bring them back into the game... give it a look, DE!

[Artekkor]

11 минут назад, SpentCasings сказал:

Some people LIKE doing that. I eventually wanted 1 well statted riven for every gun/melle I owned in the game. That was my end game goals, with everything forma'd and decked out. 

And that's FINE that they like it. I just dont think its intended by the riven system, so i simply think that the outrage is misdirected because people misunderstood the purpose of rivens (partially due to DE's fault at communicating that purpose properly).

[(PSN)xSweep66]

1 minute ago, (PS4)nekokujo said:

I’m sure there are plenty of people who don’t like video games who think that any money spent on them is a waste. If everyone followed the same rules as you do regarding free-to-play games, then Warframe wouldn’t be nearly as polished as it is in 2018.

in any event, the thing I’m actually the most upset about is the sudden removal of the sentinel rivens. I love underused and niche weapons just as much as the big meta blasters, and sentinel weapon rivens are about as niche as it gets. Lots of good suggestions in this thread on how to bring them back into the game... give it a look, DE!

The original post was edited very recently saying that they're exploring alternative options for re introducing Sentinel Rivens 

[(PSN)nekokujo]

1 minute ago, (PS4)xSweep66 said:

The original post was edited very recently saying that they're exploring alternative options for re introducing Sentinel Rivens 

Great news! Thank you for the update.

[IceDemon6]

Nope, bad idea DE. Good job on Fortuna, but this riven thing is not the way to go. Smart on going small, but slippery slope. You can't just change stats on something that might have been real world bought/traded (not to mention expensively bought). If you want to start doing this you need to remove them from trading. In reality you should have changed them monthly from when they launched, but we are way past that now. That's my opinion.